Mercurii, 2 die Junii, 1675.
Reasons for Conference on Mr. Onslowe's Case.
SIR Thomas Lee reports from the Committee appointed to draw up Reasons to be offered at a Conference to be had with the Lords, upon the Subject
Matter of what was delivered by the Lords at the last
Conference, several Reasons agreed by the Committee:
Which he read, and delivered in at the Clerk's Table:
And the same being twice read, were, upon the Question, agreed.
A further Reason was tendered, to be added to the
former: Which was once read: And being debated;
Ordered, That * * Sir Richard Temple, Mr. Vaughan,
and Sir Tho. Lee, do withdraw, and amend the Reasons
upon the Debates of the House.
Which was done; and the Reasons agreed to are as
THE House of Commons do agree with the Lords,
that Conferences between the Two Houses of Parliament
are essential to Parliamentary Proceedings, when they
are agreed in the usual and Parliamentary Way: But
the Manner of the Lords Agreement to a Conference,
to have been upon Friday the Twenty-eighth of May
last, at Ten of the Clock, in the Painted Chamber, with
Limitation and Proviso, was such, as did necessitate the
House of Commons to forbear to meet at that Conference;
and gave the first Interruption to Parliamentary Proceedings, in Conferences between the Two Houses.
For that the Conference, desired by the Commons, was
upon their Privileges concerned in the Answer of the
Lords to a Message of the House of Commons, sent to the
Lords the Seventeenth of May, in the Case of Mr.
Onslowe; the which the Lords did not agree; but did
only agree a Conference concerning their Privileges in
general, without Reference to the Case of the said Mr.
Onslowe, which was the only Subject Matter of the desired Conference.
The Limitation in the Lords Agreement to a Conference, with Proviso, that nothing be offered at the Conference, that may any way concern the Lords Judicature; is, in Effect, a Denial of any Conference at all
upon the Subject, upon which it was desired: Which
ought not to be.
The Judicature, which the Lords claim in Appeals
against a Member of the House of Commons, and the
Privilege of that House, in that Case, is so involved,
that no Conference can be upon the latter, without some
way touching the former.
That this manner of agreeing to a Conference, with
any Limitation or Proviso, is against the Course of
Proceedings between the Two Houses of Parliament, in
coming to Conferences; and doth seem to place a Power
in the Managers of such Conferences, to judge whether
such Provisoes be broken, or not; and accordingly to
proceed, or break off the Conference, upon their own
The House of Commons doubt not, but that when
the Lords have considered of what is delivered at this
Conference, the good Correspondency which the Lords
express they desire to continue between the Two Houses,
(which the Commons also are no less careful to maintain)
will induce them to remove the present Interruption of
coming to Conferences; and therefore to agree to the
Conference, as it was desired by the House of Commons, upon the Privileges of their House, concerned in
the Lords Answer to the Message of the House of
Commons, in the Case of Mr. Onslowe.
That the particular Limitation, that nothing be offered
at the Conference that may any way concern the Judicature of the Lords, appears unreasonable; for that their
Lordships Judicature in Parliament is circumscribed by
the Laws of the Land, as to your Proceedings and
Judgments, and is, as well as all other Courts, subjected
Defaulters to Call of the House.
The Names of Defaulters being called over, and
several Excuses being now allowed, and their Names
being struck out of the List;
Ordered, That the Letter, agreed by the House, be
sent to the Places where the Members are Defaulters,
and their Excuses not allowed.
Address recalling Subjects from France.
Ordered, That an humble Address be presented to his
Majesty, to desire him to issue out a further and fuller
Proclamation for recalling his Subjects out of the Service
of the French King, and for hindering any more from
going over into that Service, by expressing, in such Proclamation, the Time of the Conclusion of the Treaty with
the States General of the United Provinces; and by
limiting a Time for his Subjects leaving off the Service
of the French King; and to injoin the Officers of the
several Ports, and all other his Majesty's Officers, to take
effectual Care, that no more of his Subjects may go
over into that Service: And that his Majesty be further
desired, that Notice be given thereof to his Officers and
Soldiers, now in the said Service, by such Ways and
Means as to his Majesty shall seem meet: And that this
Address be presented to his Majesty by the Secretaries
of State, Members of this House.
Conference with Lords.
Ordered, That a Conference be desired with the Lords
upon the Matter delivered by the Lords at the last Conference: And Sir Edw. Deering is to go up to the Lords,
to desire a Conference.
Sir Edw. Deering reports, That he had attended the
Lords with the Message of this House, for a Conference,
upon the Matters delivered at the last Conference; and
that the Lords had agreed to a present Conference, in
the Painted Chamber.
Ordered, That the former Managers do manage this
Sir Thomas Lee reports from the Conference had with
the Lords, That they had attended the Conference;
and had delivered the Reasons of the House at the said
Lords desire a Conference.
A Message from the Lords, by the Lord Chief Justice
of the Commons Pleas and the Lord Chief Baron;
Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a Conference with
this House, at Ten of the Clock To-morrow Morning,
in the Painted Chamber, upon Matters of high Importance, concerning the Dignity of the King, and the
Safety of the Government.
And the Messengers being withdrawn;
Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree, that a Conference be had with the Lords To-morrow, at Ten of the
Clock, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Dignity
of the King, and the Safety of the Government.
And the Messengers being called in, Mr. Speaker
acquainted them, That this House had agreed to a Conference with the Lords To-morrow Morning, Ten of the
Clock, as it is desired.
Dismissal of the Serjeant for suffering persons to escape.
The House then called upon Sir James Norfolke, the
Serjeant at Arms attending this House, to give an Account of Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, Sir John Churchill,
Mr. Serjeant Peck, and Mr. Charles Porter, who were
Yesterday committed to his Custody for their Breach of
Privilege of this House: Who thereupon informed the
House, That he was, by Force, interrupted in the Execution of the Order, and they were escaped from his
And the Matter being debated; and the House altogether unsatisfied with the Account given, and the Excuse by
him made, for not executing the Order of this House;
Committed to the Tower.
Resolved, &c. That Sir James Norfolke, the present
Serjeant at Arms attending this House, for betraying
his Trust, in not executing his Office, according to the
Order of this House, in bringing in Custody Sir John
Churchill, Serjeant Pemberton, Serjeant Peck, and Mr.
Cha. Porter, to answer the Breach of Privilege against
this House, be sent Prisoner to the Tower: And that Mr.
Speaker do issue out his Warrant to the Lieutenant of
the Tower, for taking him into Custody.
Address for appointing another.
Ordered, That his Majesty be addressed to appoint
another Serjeant at Arms to attend this House, in the
stead of Sir James Norfolke; he having betrayed his Trust,
in not executing his Office, according to the Orders and
Direction of this House: And that such Members of
this House, as are of his Majesty's Privy Council, do
present the Address of this House to his Majesty.
Order for his Apprehension.
Whereas Sir James Norfolke, Serjeant at Arms attending this House, after the Order of this House pronounced
for his Commitment to the Tower, did withdraw himself,
without Leave of the House; and being not to be found,
though Inquiry and Search was made for him;
Ordered, That Robert Read Esquire, the Serjeant at
Arms now attending this House pro tempore, by Direction of this House, do apprehend Sir James Norfolke;
and bring him to the Bar of this House.
Resolved, &c. That Sir James Norfolke shall not any
longer have the Privilege of this House.
Mr. Speaker thanked.
Ordered, That the Thanks of this House be returned
to Mr. Speaker, for his great Care of the Honour and
Service of this House, in issuing his Warrant for executing the Order of this House, for taking the Persons
into Custody, which were committed Yesterday to the
Serjeant at Arms.
Warrant for apprehending persons escaped.
Whereas Sir John Churchill, Mr. Serjeant Peck, and
Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, were, by virtue of an Order of
this House Yesterday, in the Custody of the Serjeant at
Arms then attending this House; and, by the Negligence of the said Serjeant, have made their Escape:
Ordered, That Mr. Speaker do issue out his Warrant
to Robert Read Esquire, the Serjeant at Arms now
attending this House, to bring the said Sir John Churchill,
Mr. Serjeant Peck, and Mr. Serjeant Pemberton, in
Custody at the Bar of this House To-morrow Morning,
Nine of the Clock.
And then the House adjourned till To-morrow
Morning, Eight of the Clock.