Sabbati, 28 die Decembris, 1678.
ORDERED, That the Committee appointed to
examine Mr. Coleman's Papers, be revived; and do
inspect the Writings that are in the Custody of Sir
Charles Harbord, and do sit this Afternoon in the Place
Ordered, That the Committee appointed to search
Mr. Langhorne's Study, be revived: And that Sir John
Knight be added to the said Committee.
Ordered, That if any Papers be found in the Jesuits
Bags of Papers, that may be useful to the Committee of
Secrecy for preparing the Impeachments against the Five
Lords, they be transmitted to the said Committee.
Trial of Murderers of Sir E. Godfrey.
Resolved, &c. That an humble Address be made to
his Majesty, by such Members as are of his Majesty's
Privy Council, to desire his Majesty, That a Special
Commission of Oyer and Terminer may forthwith be
issued out for trying the Persons now in Prison for the
Murder of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey.
Answer to Address.
Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer acquaints the House,
That he had attended his Majesty with the Address for a
Special Commission of Oyer and Terminer, for trying
the Persons committed for the Murder of Sir Edmundbury
Godfrey: And that his Majesty was pleased to return
Answer, That it should be immediately done.
Conference on Lords Amendments to Supply Bill.
A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and
Sir John Francklin;
Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a present Conference
with this House in the Painted Chamber, upon the
Subject Matter of the last Conference, concerning the
Bill for Disbanding the Army.
The Messengers being withdrawn;
Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree to meet
the Lords at a present Conference.
The Messengers being called in; Mr. Speaker acquaints them, That the House had agreed to meet the
Lords at a present Conference.
Resolved, That the Members who did manage the last
Conference, do attend, and manage this Conference.
Which they accordingly did.
Mr. Powle reports, That they had attended the Conference, which was managed by the Lord Privy Seal; and
that what he delivered is as followeth; viz.
"This Conference, which is desired with the House
of Commons, is founded principally upon Three Points;
That of the Receivers General; That of the Place for
lodging the Money; and That for the Indemnifying, for
the Breach of the former Act, and the Penalties of
offending against this."
"I. That the Appointment of the Receiver General
being made an Amendment by their Lordships, in reference
to the Payment of the Money granted by this Bill into the
Exchequer, their Lordships insist upon their Amendment;
because the Money is to be paid into the Exchequer."
"II. That we conceive, that the most expeditious and
surest Way for Nomination of the Receivers, is to leave
it to his Majesty; who, as He is indisputably of the
highest Trust, so He is most concerned for Himself and
People, that the Army should be speedily and effectually
"III. That, we conceive, it tends more to Certainty
and Expedition, to leave his Majesty to make use of such
Officers as are now in being, than to be to seek new
Officers when the Act should be executed."
"The Reasons of our insisting to have the Money
paid into the Exchequer is;"
"1. Because the Court of Exchequer is an ancient
Court, established both by Common Law and Statute,
for all Receipts of his Majesty's Money, and managing
Matters relating to his Revenue."
"2. That, finding it inconvenient and grievous to the
Subject, that his Majesty's Revenue of all Sorts should
not come into the Exchequer, divers Laws have been
made to enforce the Payment of all Money there."
"3. That no Way of Justice for an injured Subject in
this Tax is provided by the Act, if it should be paid into
the Chamber of London; whereas, by Law, every Subject
injured, concerning his Payment, is to have Remedy
before the Barons."
"4. That it is a Jealousy their Lordships cannot
entertain of any Persons to be employed in the Work of
Disbanding, that the Money should be misemployed; it
being enacted under so great Penalty for Transgressors,
and to be disposed by Commissioners appointed by the
House of Commons."
"5. That we find by the Act, as it came from the
Commons, no sufficient Security for the Money that shall
be paid to the Chamber of London, nor any Remedy left
for the Subject, but an Action of Debt against the
Chamberlain, in case of his Breach of Trust."
"6. That, whereas the Army was continued in Pay
after the Payments made for Disbanding, we do not find,
that the Fault was in the Exchequer, which did regularly
give their Orders according to the Act; but the Necessity
of Affairs required it, as his Majesty signified to both
Houses at the Opening of this Sessions.
"1. The Army was continued; which induced the
House of Commons to propose an Indemnity to
all such as have since continued in Arms: And this
is not only a Reason for our Amendment, but an
Answer to the First Reason of the House of Commons upon this Point."
"2. The First Part of the Second Reason is answered
in our former Reasons. As for the latter Part,
"That the Lords have not altered any such Disposition made in a Supply granted by the Commons" (wherein the Lords cannot charge their
Memories); yet their Lordships do herein but
claim the Exercise of that Right they have to make
Alterations according to their Judgments."
"3. That, the Matters being agreed on by them, it
rests on Them to satisfy us where that General
Clause is, to which they refer (the Want of the
Knowledge whereof is the Reason we do not agree
with them); that we may consider whether it doth
the intended Work effectually."
"To the Reason concerning Colonel Byrch, the Lords
"The Lords insist upon their Amendments against
the following Reasons offered by the Commons; because
they conceive the effectual Disbanding of the Army is
secured, as they have amended the Bill; and because, to
have passed the Bill in this Particular, as the Commons
sent it up, would have invaded the King's declared Power
and Authority to have raised or employed this Army
upon any other Emergency; and disabled him from
filling up the standing Troops and Companies of his
Guards, or furnished his Islands out of any of those Men
after they are disbanded: Which is likewise a main
Reason, Why the Lords could not consent to make the
Penalty of Felony so extensive, as to reach any so
"And we do insist for leaving out the Preamble to
the Clause of Indemnity; because of the Necessity there
was for the Army's Continuance, which we have mentioned in a former Reason: And, for the same Reason,
we insist upon the Word "such" depending upon That
Amendment of their Lordships; and so upon the following Amendments depending upon this Clause."
"That, concerning the Indemnity, being limited by
the Commons to Officers and Soldiers, the Lords thought
fit to enlarge it to all other Persons; it being a Work of
Mercy; and no Officer impeached or questioned for
Breach of the former Act: And, for the same Reason,
they insist upon their Two last Amendments."
The Amendments being read;
And the Question being severally put, For agreeing
It passed in the Negative.
Resolved, &c. That the Members that managed the
Conference, do withdraw, and consider of Reasons to be
offered at a Free Conference to be had with the Lords,
upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference, Why this
House have disagreed with the Lords in several of their
Amendments to the Bill for disbanding the Army.
House to sit P. M.
Resolved, &c. That this House will sit this Afternoon.
Resolved, &c. That a Message be sent to the Lords, to
acquaint them, That this House has resolved to sit this
Afternoon; and to desire their Lordships will do the
like: And that Mr. Bennet do go up with the Message:
Impeachments of the five Lords.
Resolved, &c. That the Committee, appointed to prepare and draw up the Articles of Impeachment against the
Lords, do inspect the Journals, and consider of the Precedents touching Proceedings upon Impeachments; and
report the same, with their Opinions therein, to the House.
And then the House adjourned till Three of the
Clock in the Afternoon.
Conference desired with Lords.
RESOLVED, &c. That Mr. Wharton do go up to
the Lords; and desire a free Conference, upon the
Subject Matter of the last Conference.
Mr. Wharton acquaints the House, That the Lords
have agreed to a present Free Conference in the Painted
Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference.
Ordered, That the Members who managed the last Conference, do attend and manage the Free Conference.
Which they accordingly did.
And then the House adjourned till Monday
Morning, Eight of the Clock.