House of Commons Journal Volume 9: 8 April 1679

Martis, 8 die Aprilis, 1679.

Prayers.

Wilcocks' Petition.

A PETITION of Charles Wilcocks, against Sir John Robinson, a Member of this House, being presented to be read, was, upon the Question, rejected.

Convocation Oaths.

An ingrossed Bill, sent down from the Lords, intituled, An Act to disable any Person from sitting in any of the Houses of Convocation, till he hath taken the Oaths, and made and subscribed the Declaration therein mentioned, was read the Second time.

Resolved, &c. That the Bill be committed, upon the Debate of the House, to Sir Thomas Clergis, Sir Anthony Irby, Sir John Mallet, Sir Chr. Musgrave, Sir Wm. Escourt, Doctor Jacob, Sir James Oxenden, Mr. Boscawen, Mr. Hamden, Mr. Wright, Sir Tho. Middleton, Sir Francis Drake, Sir John Knight, Sir Wm. Poultney, Sir Trevor Williams, Colonel Birch, Serjeant Seys, Sir Henry Ford, Sir Gilbert Gerrard, Sir John Hewley, Sir Walter Clarges, Sir Tho. Stringer, Sir Samuel Bernardiston, Mr. Mildmay, Sir Walter Young, Sir Robert Carr, Sir Richard Corbett, Mr. Duboys, and all the Members that serve for the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Three of the Clock, in the Duchy Chamber.

Attainder of Earl of Danby.

Ordered, That Sir John Hewley, Mr. Bennet, Sir Thomas Clerges, and Mr. Booth, be added to the Members appointed to prepare and draw up Reasons to be offered at a Conference to be had with the Lords, upon the Amendments made by their Lordships to the Bill for the Attainder of Thomas Earl of Danby of High Treason.

Committees added.

The House being informed from the Committee of Secrecy, That it was the Desire of the said Committee, that Sir John Trevor might be added to the said Committee; he having been Chairman of the Committee of Secrecy in the late Parliament, and acquainted with the Evidence and Proceeding relating to the Plot, and very necessary to be added for carrying on the Service of the House;

And it being also moved, That he may be added to the Committee of Privileges and Elections;

Ordered, That Sir John Trevor be added to the Committee of Secrecy; and also to the Committee of Elections and Privileges.

Members not to depart without leave.

Ordered, That no Member do depart the Service of the House, without Leave first asked and obtained, after Ten of the Clock.

Privilege- a person discharged.

A Petition of Richard Blyth, now in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, for a Breach of Privilege, in contemning the Order of this House, and refusing to assist the said Serjeant at Arms, was read; whereby the Petitioner acknowledges his Offence, and craves Pardon of the House; and desires to be discharged of his Confinement.

Ordered, That the said Richard Blyth, be called in to the Bar of the House; and discharged, paying his Fees.

And the said Richard Blyth being called in to the Bar of the House, and there kneeling; after Mr. Speaker had given him a Reproof, . . acquainted him, That he was discharged of his Commitment, paying his Fees.

Committee of Trade.

Ordered, That the Grand Committee of Trade do sit on Saturday next.

Ordered, That Sir John Wynn, Sir Robert Peyton, Mr. St. John, Sir Nath. Herne, Alderman Backwell, Sir Anth. Irby, Mr. Pilkington, Sir John Reresby, Sir Henry Ford, Mr. Johnson, Sir Philip Egerton, Sir Thomas Player, Mr. Duboys, Sir Gervase Elwes, Sir Tho. Stringer, Mr. Love, Mr. Woogan, Sir Richard Corbett, Mr. Foley, Sir Francis Winnington, and all the Members that serve for the Cities of London and Westminster, be added to the Committee appointed to consider, Which of the Temporary Laws are fit and necessary to be continued; and to hear the Complaints of the Hackney Coachmen.

Lord amendments to Earl Danby's Attainder Bill.

Mr. Powel reports from the Committee appointed to prepare and draw up Reasons to be offered at a Conference to be had with the Lords, touching the Amendments made by their Lordships to the Bill for the Attainder of Thomas Earl of Danby of High Treason; That the Committee had agreed upon Reasons: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were twice read; and, upon the Question, severally agreeed; and are as followeth; viz.

(fn. 1) The Addition to the Title doth shew, That the Amendments, made by your Lordships to the Bill, do wholly, alter the Nature of it; and, from a Bill of Attainden, have converted it into a Bill of Banishment: Which the Commons cannot consent to, for these Reasons;

That Banishment is not the legal Judgment in Cases of High Treason: And the Earl of Danby, being impeached by the Commons of High Treason, and fled from Justice, hath thereby confessed the Charge; and therefore ought to have the Judgment of High Treason for his Punishment.

The Banishment being not the Punishment the Law inflicts upon those Crimes, the Earl of Danby might make use of this Remission of his Sentence as an Argument, that either the Commons were distrustful of their Proofs against him; or else that the Crimes are not in themselves of so high a Nature as Treason.

That the Example of this would be an Encouragement to all Persons that should be hereafter impeached by the Commons, to withdraw themselves from Justice (which they would always be ready to do, if not prevented by a Commitment upon their Impeachment); and thereby hope to obtain a more favourable Sentence in a legislative way, than your Lordships would be obliged to pass upon them in your judicial Capacity.

The Amendments being all in order to these Alterations, the Commons do not agree to them, for the former Reasons.

Conference desired with Lords.

Ordered, That Mr. Booth do go up to the Lords, to desire a Conference with the Lords, upon the Amendments, by them made, to the Bill of Attainder against the Earl of Danby.

Address for Trial of Reading.

Mr. Vaughan reports from the Committee appointed to prepare and draw up an Address to be presented to his Majesty, beseeching his Majesty to give Order, that a special Commission of Oyer and Terminer may be immediately issued forth, for the Trying of Nathanael Reading Esquire, That the Committee had prepared such an Address: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was again read; and, upon the Question, agreed; and is as followeth; viz.

May it please Your Majesty,

WE Your Majesty's most Dutiful and Loyal Subjects the Commons, in Parliament assembled, having, according to our Duty, made Inquiry into the damnable and hellish Plot against Your Majesty's Sacred Person and Government, and for the Extirpation of the Protestant Religion, have, upon Examination, discovered, That Nathanael Reading Esquire hath industriously, and against the Duty of a Loyal Subject, held frequent Correspondencies with several Lords and other Persons that stand committed for High Treason; and also used his utmost Endeavours, to prevent and suppress Your Majesty's Evidence; and, as much as in him lay, to stifle the Discovery of the said Plot, and thereby to render the same fictitious, and of no Reality; and by such undue Means to prevent the Malefactors from coming to Justice: Therefore we Your said Commons do most humbly beseech Your Majesty, That You will be graciously pleased to command, that a Commission of Oyer and Terminer do immediately issue forth, for the Tryal of the said Nathanael Reading, for the said Offence, that so he may be brought to publick Justice.

Ordered, That the said Address be presented to his Majesty, by such Members of this House as are of his Majesty's Privy Council.

Address for apprehending Earl Danby.

Mr. Bennet reports from the Committee appointed to draw up an Address to be presented to his Majesty, to desire his Majesty, to issue out his Royal Proclamation, for the Apprehending of Thomas Earl of Danby, That the Committee had agreed upon an Address: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was again read, and, upon the Question, agreed; and is as followeth; viz.

May it please Your Most Excellent Majesty,

WE Your Majesty's most Dutiful and Loyal Subjects the Commons, in Parliament assembled, do most humbly represent to Your Majesty, That Thomas Earl of Danby, late High Treasurer of England, stands now impeached in Parliament of High Treason, and other High Crimes and Misdemeanors; and that the said Thomas Earl of Danby, with an Intent to delay and obstruct the Execution of Justice upon him, hath concealed and withdrawn himself: Your Majesty's obedient Subjects do therefore humbly beseech Your Majesty, That Your Majesty will be graciously pleased to cause Your Proclamation to issue forth, commanding the said Thomas Earl of Danby forthwith to render himself, in order to his Tryal: And that Your Majesty will be pleased to command all Your Officers and Ministers of Justice to use their utmost Diligence to apprehend the said Thomas Earl of Danby; and also to require all Your Majesty's Subjects, that they, nor any of them, offer to conceal or harbour the said Earl of Danby: And likewise, That Your Majesty will signify Your Royal Pleasure, that all the Officers of Your Majesty's Houshold do take Care, that no Person whatsoever do permit or suffer the said Thomas Earl of Danby to conceal himself in any of Your Majesty's Palaces. In the Granting of all which, Your Commons will have great Cause to rejoice, and give Your Majesty humble Thanks, for Your Majesty's great Willingness to grant the humble Desires of Your People.

Ordered, That the said Address be presented to his Majesty by such Members of this House as are of his Majesty's Privy Council.

Lords agree to Conference.

Mr. Booth acquaints the House, That the Lords had agreed to a present Conference.

Ordered, That the Members that prepared the Reasons, do attend, and manage the Conference.

Examination of Reading.

Mr. Sachaverell reports from the Committee of Secrecy, That the Committee had further examined Mr. Reading: The Effect of which Examination he reported to the House.

Ordered, That Leave be given for the Carrying of Mr. Reading, before a Justice of Peace, to the end he may be examined, and proceeded against, according to Law.

A Papist to be apprehended.

The House being informed, that one Mr. Sing, a noted Papist, was in the Lobby;

Ordered, That the Serjeant at Arms do forthwith bring Mr. Sing to the Bar of this House.

Irish Cattle.

The House then proceeded to the Business of the Day, touching the Consideration of the Act against the Importation of Irish Cattle:

And the Order being read;

The Question was put, That the House will now resolve into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Act against the Importing of Cattle from Ireland, and other Places beyond the Seas; and Fish taken by Foreigners:

The House divide.

The Noes go forth.

And so it was resolved in the Affirmative.

The House, then resolved into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Act against the Importation of Cattle from Ireland, and other Places beyond the Seas; and Fish taken by Foreigners.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Sir John Trevor took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

House to sit P. M.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir John Hoskins;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords intend to sit this Afternoon; and desire this House will do the like.

The Messengers being withdrawn;

Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree to sit this Afternoon.

And the Messengers being called in; Mr. Speaker acquaints them, That this House did agree to sit this Afternoon.

Irish Cattle.

Resolved, &c. That this House will, on Thursday Morning next, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, further to consider of the Act against the Importing of Cattle from Ireland, and other Places beyond the Seas; and Fish taken by Foreigners; the first Business.

And then the House adjourned till Four of the Clock in the Afternoon.

Post Meridiem.

Leave of Absence.

ORDERED, That Mr. Mildmay have Leave to go into the Country for Two Days.

Liberty of the Subject.

A Bill for the better Securing the Liberty of the Subject, was read a Third time.

And some Amendments being made at the Table;

Resolved, &c. That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for the better Securing the Liberty of the Subject; and for Prevention of Imprisonment beyond the Seas.

Ordered, That Sir Thomas Clerges do carry up the Bill to the Lords for their Concurrence.

Examinations of two persons.

Mr. Sachaverell reports from the Committee of Secrecy, That they had taken the Examinations of Mr. Castleton and Mr. Brent: The Effect whereof he delivered to the House.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Goreing have Leave to go into the Country.

Privilege- Scandalous Words.

The House being informed of certain scandalous and dangerous Words, spoken by Mr. Charles Gostwick, a Gentleman Pensioner to his Majesty; and that the Examinations, touching the same, were taken upon Oath, before a Justice of Peace;

Ordered, That a Committee be appointed, to examine the Matter of the said Information; and to send for and hear the Witnesses; and to report the Matter, with their Opinions therein, to the House.

And it is referred to Sir John Wyn, Mr. Pilkington, Sir Nathanael Herne, Sir Chr. Musgrave, Sir Francis Drake, Sir Tho. Stringer, Mr. Wyn, Sir Ralph Ashton, Mr. Morgan, Mr. May, Sir Patience Ward, Mr. Love, Mr. Booth, Sir Gilbert Gerrard, Sir Thomas Player, Sir Sam. Bernardiston, Sir Robert Cleyton, Col. Titus, Sir Anth. Irby, Mr. Thyn, Lord Deincourt, Sir John Hewley, Mr. Duboys, Sir Tho. Clerges, Sir John Knight, Mr. Boscawen: And they are to meet To-morrow, at Two of the Clock, in the Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber: And are impowered to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.

Conference on Bill for attainting Earl Danby.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Timothy Baldwyn and Sir Miles Cooke;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords desire a present Conference with this House, in the Painted Chamber, concerning Matters in the Bill concerning the Earl of Danby.

The Messengers being withdrawn;

Resolved, &c. That this House doth agree to meet the Lords at a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber.

And the Messengers being called in, Mr. Speaker acquaints them, That this House did agree to meet the Lords at a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber.

Ordered, That the Members that managed the last Conference, do attend, and manage this Conference.

Sir Francis Winnington reports, That the Members appointed had attended at the Conference: And that the Lord Huntington managed the Conference: And that what he delivered, was to the Effect following;

"The Lords have desired this Conference with the House of Commons, not so much to argue and dispute, as to mitigate and reconcile."

"They have already observed, That the Debates of this Bill have given too long and too great an Obstruction to publick Business: And therefore they desire you to believe, that That is the Reason which hath chiefly prevailed with their Lordships, in a Matter of this Nature."

"And upon this Ground it is, that, if a Way may be found to satisfy and secure the publick Fears, by doing less than the Bill you have proposed, the Lords do not think it advisable to insist upon the utmost, and the most rigorous Satisfaction to Publick Justice, which might be demanded."

"To induce you to this Compliance, the Lords do acknowledge, That Banishment is so far from being the legal Judgment in Case of High Treason, that it is not the legal Judgment in any Case whatsoever; since it can never be inflicted but by the Legislative Authority: But they see no Reason, Why the Legislative Authority should always be bound to act to the utmost Extent of its Power; for there may be a prudential Necessity sometimes of making Abatements, and might be of a fatal Consequence, if it should not be so."

"And the Lords, to remove all Jealousies of the Precedents of this Kind, do declare, That nothing which hath been done in the Earl of Danby's Case, shall ever be drawn into Example, for the Time to come; and will so enter it upon their Journal."

"And thereupon their Lordships insist upon their Amendments, so far as to exclude all Attainders: And do promise themselves the Commons will, in this Point, comply with their Lordships; who do again assure them, that their Resolutions are grounded only upon their Tenderness, and Consideration of the Publick."

Resolved, That the Consideration of the said Report be adjourned till To-morrow Morning.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight of the Clock.