March 1689

Commons Journal

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CSPD James II

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House of Commons Journal Volume 10
21 March 1689

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History of Parliament Trust

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Year published

1802

Pages

56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 21 March 1689', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 10: 1688-1693 (1802), pp. 56-61. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=28784 Date accessed: 21 October 2014.


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Jovis, 21 die Martii; 1° Willielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Privilege-a person reprimanded and discharged.

A PETITION of Henry Lloyd, Gentleman, in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House, was read.

Resolved, That he be called in to the Bar; and receive a Reprimand upon his Knees; and that he be then discharged, paying his Fees.

He was brought in to the Bar; and, upon his Knees, had a Reprimand from Mr. Speaker, accordingly.

Navy and Army Establishments.

Mr. Papillion reports from the Committee, to whom it was referred to consider, and report to the House, what Sum may be necessary to allow, by the Year, for the Charge of a Summer and Winter Guard at Sea, and Guards and Garisons at Land, and the Office of Ordnance, that they had directed him to move the House, that the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty may be desired to attend the Committee To-morrow Morning, at Eight a Clock; to which Time they have adjourned.

Ordered, That the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty be desired to attend accordingly.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be revived.

Devizes Election.

Colonel Birch reports from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to whom the Matter of Election of Burgesses to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts was referred, the State of the Fact as it appeared to the Committee; which he produced to the House in Writing: Which, being read at the Table, is as followeth;

Upon the Petition of Sir John Eyles, and William Trenchard, Esquire, against the Election of Sir Wm. Pinsent, Baronet, Walter Grubb, Esquire, Sitting Members;

That the Question was, Whether the Mayor and Burgesses, as a select Number, had the Right of Election; or, all the free Burgesses of the Borough.

That the Petitioners Counsel insisted, the Borough was a Borough by Prescription, and not a Corporation by Prescription: And that all the Burgesses had a Right to elect:

And produced a Charter of 15 E. III; being a Grant to the Burgesses and their Successors: And

An Indenture of a Return of 2 H. V, of Burgesses, by the Sheriff of the County, as chosen for the Community of the Borough: And

Another Indenture of 1 Mariæ; wherein it was said, The Mayor, pro se, et communitate Burgi, had returned the Burgesses: And

An Indenture of Return, of 31 Car. II, made by the Mayor and Burgesses in general.

And the Counsel said, They had Copies of other Returns between these times; but that the Records could not be found to examine them therewith.

That the Petitioners also produced a Witness: Who said, a Poll was now demanded by the Petitioners for all the Burgesses, and was denied; and, upon Cross-examination, said, He had lived near 60 Years in the Town; and known several Elections; but none that was by the Popularity but One, about 8 Years since; when Sir Giles Hungerford and Sir John Eyles, (One of the now Petitioners) were returned by that Choice, against Sir Walter Earnly, Baronet, and George Johnson, Esquire, who were chosen by the select Numbers.

And that the Petitioners did not make out, that any other Election, but That, was by the Populacy, or Burgesses in general.

For the Sitting Members;

That it was insisted, that it was a Corporation by Prescription; and that the Right of Election was in the Mayor and Burgesses, as a select Number.

And produced Returns, of 43° Eliz. 1° Jac. Imi, 21° Jac. Imi, 1° Car. Imi, by the Mayor and Burgesses:

And that they said they had several others:

And a Charter of 3° Jac. Im; wherein it was recited, That the Mayor and Burgesses had, Time out of Mind, divers Immunities, Franchises and Privileges:

And therefore, it was insisted, That it was a Corporation by Prescription,

And as to the Election in 1679, that it was proved Sir Walter Ernly and Mr. Johnson petitioned against it; but that it was not decided.

And then the now Petitioner, Sir John Eyles, gave to the then Mayor (one Whatton) a Bond of 2,000£. dated 15 Sept. 1679, (which was proved by that Mayor himself) to save him harmless against all Damages, by Reason of his making that Return of Sir Giles Hungerford, and the said Sir John Eyles.

And that he said further, That he was fearful to make that Return, by the Election of the Burgesses in general; it being never done before, that he knew of; and therefore, being pressed to make it, took the Bond.

And that thereupon the Committee came to Two Resolves: Which he read in his Place; and then delivered them in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being read, are as follow:

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts, is in the Mayor and select Number of the Burgesses of the said Borough, only.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That Sir Wm. Pinsent, Baronet, and Walter Grubb, Esquire, are duly elected to serve as Burgesses in this present Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts.

The First of the said Resolves being read a Second time;

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts, is in the Mayor and select Number of the Burgesses of the said Borough, only.

The Second of the said Resolves being read a Second time;

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, That Sir Wm. Pinsent, Baronet, and Walter Grubb, Esquire, are duly elected to serve as Burgesses in this present Parliament for the Borough of the Devizes in the County of Wilts.

Knaresborough Election.

Colonel Birch, reported from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to whom the Merits of the Double Return for the Borough of Knaresbrough in the County of Yorke was referred, the State of the Fact, as it appeared to the Committee: Which he produced to the House in Writing; which being read, is as followeth:

That the Boroughmen of the ancient Borough of Knaresbrough in the County of Yorke, on the Twelfth Day of January, with an unanimous Consent, have freely chosen Wm. Stockdale, Esquire, to be One of their Two Representatives in the Convention to be holden at Westminster the 22d of January.

And the Lord Viscount Latimer, by the Majority of the ancient and new Votes together;

Or, Thomas Fawkes, Esquire, by the Majority of the ancient Votes, who has been sworn in Court and relieved, for their Borough-houses, according to the Custom of the said Borough; to be the other of the Two Representatives in the said Convention.

That the ancient Votes for Mr. Fawkes, agreed on all Sides to be good, were 25.

That the ancient Votes for the Lord Latimer, agreed on all Sides to be good, were 16; and the new Votes, transferred lately, but otherwise good, were 18.

That the Return and Petition of the Lord Latimer, and the Petition of Mr. Fawkes, concerning the said Election, coming in course to be heard before the Committee, on Monday the 18th of February last, the same was put off till Monday the 4th of March instant; before which Time the Lord Latimer was dead:

And, it appearing to the Committee, upon the Face of the Return, that Mr. Fawkes had 25 old Voices, and the Lord Latimer but 19; and that no Petition had been presented in Behalf of the Borough; they did not think fit to grant any longer Time: And therefore they came to a Resolution: Which he read in his Place; and after delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being read, is as followeth:

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That Thomas Fawkes, Esquire, is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Knaresborough in the County of Yorke.

The said Resolve being read a Second time;

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee, that Thomas Fawkes, Esquire, is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Knaresborough in the County of Yorke.

Ordered, That the Bailiff of the Borough of Knaresborough in the County of Yorke do attend this House, to amend the Return of Burgesses to serve for the said Borough.

State of Ireland.

The House then, according to the Order of Yesterday, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to take into Consideration the State of Ireland.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Royal Assent to a Bill.

A Message by Sir Tho. Duppa, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.

Mr. Speaker,

The King commands this Honourable House to attend Him immediately, in the House of Peers.

Accordingly Mr. Speaker, with the House, went up to the House of Peers, to attend his Majesty: And they being returned;

Mr. Speaker acquainted the House, that he had presented the Bill for the Granting a present Aid to his Majesty; and that his Majesty had passed the Bill.

State of Ireland.

The House then proceeded in the further Consideration of the State of Ireland.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Hamden took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Mr. Hamden reports from the Committee of the whole House, that they having, according to the Order of the House, taken into Consideration the State of Ireland, there had been delivered in to the Committee,

Troops for Ireland.

An ESTIMATE of the Charge of Six Regiments of Horse, Two Regiments of Dragoons, and Twenty-five Regiments of Foot (whereof Sixteen to be raised); making 22,330 Men, besides Officers, to be employed in the Service of Ireland; computed for One Year, commencing the First Day of March, 1688-9.

Six Regiments of Horse. Per Diem. Per Annum.
Field and Staff Officers. £. s. d. £. s. d.
Colonel, as Colonel, - 12 - 219 - -
Lieutenant Colonel, as Lieutenant Colonel - 8 - 146 - -
Chaplain - 6 8 121 13 4
Kettledrum to the Colonel's Troop - 3 - 54 15 -
Adjutant - 5 - 91 5 -
Surgeon - 6 - 109 10 -
Carried over £. 3 - 8 1,107 3 4
A Regiment of Six Troops, of Fifty in each.
Brought over 3 - 8 1,107 3 4
One Troop.
Captain 10s. and Two Horses, each 2 s. - 14 - 255 10 -
Lieutenant 6s. and Two Horses, each 2 s. - 10 - 182 10 -
Cornet 5s. and Two Horses, each 2s. - 9 - 164 5 -
Quarter-master 4s. and One Horse, 2s. - 6 - 109 10 -
Three Corporals, each 3 s. - 9 - 164 5 -
Two Trumpeters, each 2 s. 8 d. - 5 4 97 6 8
Fifty Soldiers, each 2 s. 6 d. 6 5 - 2,281 5 -
8 18 4 3,254 11 8
The Pay of Eight Troops more, at the same Rates and Numbers 71 6 8 26,036 13 4
Total 83 5 8 30,398 8 4
A Regiment of Six Troops, of Fifty in each.
Field and Staff Officers, as above 3 - 8 1,107 3 4
The Pay of Six Troops, at the same Rates and Numbers, in each, as in the Troops above-mentioned 53 10 - 19,527 10 -
Total 56 10 8 20,634 13 4
Four Regiments more of the same.
The Pay of Four Regiments more, of the like Numbers as the foregoing Regiments 226 2 8 82,538 13 4
Total for the Horse, is 365 19 - 133,571 15 -
Two Regiments of Dragoons.
Field and Staff Officers.
Colonel, as Colonel - 15 - 273 15 -
Lieutenant Colonel, as Lieutenant Colonel - 9 - 164 5 -
Major, who has no Troop 1 - - 365 - -
Chaplain - 6 8 121 13 4
Adjutant - 5 - 91 5 -
Surgeon - 6 - 109 10 -
Gunsmith, and his Servant - 5 - 91 5 -
3 6 8 1,216 13 4
One Troop.
A Regiment of Eight Troops, of Sixty in each.
Captain 8 s. and Three Horses 3 s. - 11 - 200 15 -
Lieutenant 4 s. and Two Horses 2 s. - 6 - 109 10 -
Cornet 3 s. and Two Horses 2 s. - 5 - 91 5 -
Quarter-master, for himself and Horse - 4 - 73 - -
Three Corporals, each 12 d. and 3 s. for Horses - 6 - 109 10 -
Two Serjeants, each 18 d. and 2 s. for Horses - 5 - 91 5 -
Two Drummers, each 12d. and 2 s. for Horses - 4 - 73 - -
Two Hautboys, each 12 d. and 2 s. for Horses - 4 - 73 - -
Sixty Soldiers, each 18 d. for Man and Horse 4 10 - 1,642 10 -
6 15 - 2,463 15 -
The Pay of Seven Troops more, at the same Rates and Numbers 47 5 - 17,246 5 -
Total 57 6 8 20,926 13 4
A Regiment of Six Troops, of Sixty in each.
Field and Staff Officers, as above 3 6 8 1,216 13 4
The Pay of Six Troops, at the same Rates and Numbers, in each, as in the Troop above-mentioned 40 10 - 14,782 10 -
Total 43 16 8 15,999 3 4
Total for the Dragoons 101 3 4 36,925 16 8
Twenty-five Regiments of Foot.
Field and Staff Officers.
Colonel, as Colonel - 12 - 219 - -
Lieutenant Colonel, as Lieutenant Colonel - 7 - 127 15 -
Major, as Major - 5 - 91 - -
Chaplain - 6 8 121 13 4
Adjutant - 4 - 73 - -
Surgeon 4 s. and a Mate 2 s. 6 d. - 6 6 118 12 6
Quarter-master - 4 - 73 - -
2 5 2 824 5 10
One Company.
Captain - 8 - 146 - -
Lieutenant - 4 - 73 - -
Ensign - 3 - 54 15 -
Two Serjeants, at 18 d. each - 3 - 54 15 -
Carried over £. - 18 - 328 10 -
A Regiment of Sixteen Companies, of Fifty in each.
Brought over - 18 - 328 10 -
Three Corporals at 12 d. each - 3 - 54 15 -
One Drummer - 1 - 18 5 -
Fifty private Soldiers, at 8d. each 1 13 4 608 6 8
2 15 4 1,009 16 8
The pay of Fourteen Companies more at the same Rates and Numbers 38 14 8 14,137 13 4
A Company of Grenadiers.
Captain - 8 - 146 - -
Two Lieutenants, each 4 s. - 8 - 146 - -
Three Serjeants - 4 6 82 2 6
Three Corporals - 3 - 54 15 -
Two Drummers - 2 - 36 10 -
Fifty Private Soldiers 1 13 4 608 6 8
2 18 10 1,073 14 2
Total 46 14 - 17,045 10 -
Another.
The Pay of another Regiment, of like Number 46 14 - 17,045 10 -
Field and Staff Officers, as above 2 5 2 824 5 10
One Company.
Captain - 8 - 146 - -
Lieutenant - 4 - 73 - -
Ensign - 3 - 54 15 -
Three Serjeants - 4 6 82 2 6
Three Corporals - 3 - 54 15 -
Two Drummers - 2 - 36 10 -
Sixty Private Soldiers, at 8 d. 2 - - 730 - -
3 4 6 1,177 2 6
A Regiment of Thirteen Companies of Sixty in each.
The Pay of Eleven Companies more, at the same Rates and Numbers 35 9 6 12,948 7 6
The Company of Grenadiers.
Captain - 8 - 146 - -
Two Lieutenants, each 4s. - 8 - 146 - -
Three Serjeants - 4 6 82 2 6
Three Corporals - 3 - 54 15 -
Two Drummers - 2 - 36 10 -
Sixty Private Soldiers, at 8d. 2 - - 730 - -
3 5 6 1,195 7 6
Total 44 4 8 16,145 3 4
The Pay of Twenty-two Regiments more, of the same Numbers 973 2 8 355,193 13 4
Total Of Twenty-five Regiments of Foot
         Of Two Regiments of Dragoons
         Of Six Regiments of Horse
1,110 15 4 405,429 16 8
101 3 4 36,425 16 8
365 19 - 138,571 15 -
1,577 17 8 575,927 8 4
Levy Money for Sixteen Regiments 34 6 12,520 - -
Contingencies 78 17 10½ 28,796 7 5
£. 1,691 1 7 617,243 15 9
For Transporting 22,330 Men, at 4s. per Head 4,466 - -
For Transporting 4,500 Horse, at 20s. each 4,500 - -
For Diet for the Men for Ten Days, at 4d. per Head per Day 3,721 13 4
For Feeding 4,500 Horse, at 12d. per Day each 2,250 - -
£. 14,937 13 4

Memorandum, For every 20,000£. necessary for the Pay of several Regiments above mentioned, there is to be One thousand more allowed for the General Officers, &c.; and for the ordinary Charges incident to the Forces; viz. Medicaments, Fire and Candle, Carriage of Arms, Ammunition, Field Pieces, &c. besides the extraordinary Expence of this Expedition.

Office of Ordnance, the 15th Day of March, 1688-9.

A Proportion and Valuation of a Train of Artillery, and the incident Stores and Habiliments of War pertaining thereunto (the said Train being to consist of Four teen pieces of Cannon, and Two Mortar-pieces) together with a List, and the Appointments, of the proper Officers, Ministers, and Attendants of the said Train, directed to be employed for his Majesty's Service in the Kingdom of Ireland, pursuant to a Signification of his Excellency the Mareschall Duke de Schomberg, bearing Date the 14th March, 1688-9, to this Board, to form and calculate the said Proportion and Valuation for the Space and Service of One Year; together with a Calculation of the Charge of completely arming of Six Regiments of Horse, Two Regiments of Dragoons, and Twenty-five Regiments of Foot; consisting, in all, of 22,330. Men; as also, of the Ammunition and Stores of War, of all Kinds, proportionable thereunto; viz.

Brass Ordnance.
£. s. d.
Whole Culverin 2 1,297 6 9
Sacre4
3 Pounders 8
Brass Mortar-pieces.
10 Inches Diameter 2 260 12 6
Travelling Carriages, complete for the Ordnance 218 - -
Carriages complete for the Mortar-pieces 48 - -
Spare Travelling Carriages for the Ordnance 97 - -
Spare Carriages for the Mortar-pieces 24 - -
Spare Wheels and Extrees for the Ordnance 65 17 -
One Gynn-furn'd, and Two Sling Carts 88 - -
£. 2,098 16 3
Munition for the Ordnance, and Mortar-pieces.
Round Shot computed at 100 Rounds 39 15 7
Tin Cases filled with Musket Shot 12 6 8
Grenado Shells, computed at 200 Rounds 247 - -
Fuzees for the Grenado Shells, fixt 12 10 -
Corn Powder, 100 Barrels 250 - -
Match, Two Ton 42 - -
£. 603 12 3
Equipage for the Ordnance, and Mortar-pieces.
Ladles and Spunges, Field Staves, Heads and Rammers, Ladle Staves, Budge Barrels, Funnels of Plate, Tampeons, Crows of Iron, Spikes, Forelockeys, Linchpins, Baskets, Lanthorns, Powder Horns, Priming Irons, Linstocks, Hand Screws, and all Kinds of necessary Utensils in proportion 154 7 11
Nails of Sorts 13 1 8
Cordage of all Sorts, Tanned Hides, Sheep-skins, Tilts of Hair, and sundry other Species of Materials 72 16 11
Materials and Ingredients of sundry Species for the Fire Master 8 11 -
Storm Piles, or Stockadoes armed, 500 75 - -
£. 323 17 6
Materials and Utensils, for the Pioneers.
Spades, Shovels, Pickaxes, Hand Barrows, Hurdles, Canvas Bags, &c. 162 8 4
Arms, &c. for the Guard of the Train, and for the Gunners and Matrosses.
Fuzees, Pistols, Half Pikes, Hangers Musket and Pistol Shot 223 5 -
Tents for Officers, Gunners, and inferior Attendants 222 10 -
Bedding 50 - -
£. 668 3 4
Stores, Materials, Tools, and Utensils for the Artificers, viz.
For the Tent Keepers
            Smiths
            Carpenters
            Wheel-wrights
            Ladle-maker
            Collar-makers
            Coopers
22
50
10
57
17
12
1
2
-
8
7
-
6
16
7
-
5
2
6
11
-
            £. 17117
Carriages for the Stores, Equipage, and Necessaries incident to the Train.
Tumbrels 58 748 - -
Carts 16
Forge Waggon 1 60 - -
£. 808 - -
Harness and Furniture.
Horse Harness for the Ordnance, Mortar-pieces, Carriages, Carts, and Tumbrels 590 8 -
Mens Harness for Ordnance 26 - -
£. 636 8 -
Expence of Teams, Drivers, &c.
For the Charge of 492 Horses, to be bought for the Service of the said Train, at 10£. a piece 4,920 - 3
For Charge of Meat for 492 Horses, for One Year, at 12 d. per Diem. 8,979 - -
For the Pay of 197 Drivers, for One Year, at 10d. per Diem 3,392 17 6
£. 19,291 17 6

A List of the proper Officers, Ministers, and Attendants; with their Appointments incident to this Train; viz.

Pay per Diem.
Comptroller General 1 - -
His Clerk - 5 -
Comptroller - 15 -
His Clerk - 4 -
Commissary of the Stores - 10 -
His Clerk - 4 -
Adjutant - 8 -
Paymaster - 8 -
His Clerk - 4 -
First Engineer - 15 -
His Clerk - 4 -
Second Engineer - 10 -
Waggon-master and Commissary of the Draft Horses - 8 -
Three Assistants, each 4s. - 12 -
Four Gentlemen of the Ordnance, each 5s. 1 - -
Quarter-master - 6 -
Purveyor - 5 -
His Assistant - 3 -
Provost Marshal - 6 -
Two Assistants, each 2s. - 4 -
Chirurgeon - 5 -
His Mate - 3 -
Chief Conductor - 4 -
Ten Conductors, 2s. 6d. each 1 5 -
Tent Maker - 4 -
His Assistant - 2 -
Master Farrier - 4 -
His Mate - 2 -
Master Smith - 4 -
Two Servants, each 2s. - 4 -
Master Carpenter - 4 -
Two Servants, each Man 2s. 6d. - 5 -
Carried over £. 11 17 6
Brought over 11 17 6
Master Wheelwright - 4 -
Five Servants, each Man 2s. 6d. - 12 6
Master Collar Maker - 4 -
Two Servants, each 2s. - 4 -
Master Cooper - 4 -
His Servant - 2 6
Ladle Maker - 3 6
Master Gunner of the Train - 6 -
His Two Mates, each 3s. - 6 -
Twenty-two Gunners, each 2s. 2 4 -
Two Bombadiers, each 2s. 6d. - 5 -
Thirty-two Matrosses, each 1s. 6d. 2 8 -
Fire Master - 5 -
His Mate - 3 -
Two Fire-workers, each 2s. 6d. - 5 -
Captain of the Pioneers - 5 -
Two Serjeants, each 2s. - 4 -
Two Corporals, each 1s. 6d. - 3 -
Two Drummers, each 12d. - 2 -
Thirty Pioneers, each 12d. 1 10 -
Per Annum 7,995£. 10s. 21 18 -
Proportion for the Army:
For arming complete Six Regiments of Horse, Two of Dragoons, and Twenty-five Regiments of Foot; consisting of 22,330 Men 28,737 12 6
Ammunition to the same, proportioned to 100 Rounds 3,587 10 -
Spare Arms of all Species 3,980 - -
For Tents for Horse and Foot, Turnpikes, Casting Calthropes, Spades, Shovels, Pickaxes, Sand Pags, Baskets, Arms, Stockadoes, Rowling Bridges, and sundry other Tools, Utensils, Materials, &c. 10,901 - -
£. 47,206 2 6
Abstract.
Brass Ordnance and Mortar-pieces, with their Appurtenances 2,098 16 3
Munition for the Ordnance and Mortar-pieces 603 12 3
Equipage for the same 323 17 6
Materials and Utensils for the Pioneers 162 8 4
Arms, Tents, &c. for the Train 668 3 4
Stores, Materials, Tools, and Utensils for the Artificers 171 1 7
Carriages for the Stores, Equipage, and Necessaries incident to the Train 800 - -
Harness and Furniture 616 8 -
Expence of Teams, Drivers, &c. for the Train 19,291 17 6
Annual Charge of the Officers, Ministers, and Attendants 7,993 10 -
Proportion of Arms for the Army, Ammunition, spare Arms, Tents for Horse and Foot, &c. 47,206 2 6
Contingencies for the same time, by Estimation 2,000 - -
£. 81,935 17 3
H. Shere, J. Gardner,
Phil. Musgrave, Ja. Rothwell.

Memorandum, That the Tonage, Freight and Charge of Transportation to Ireland is not cast into this Estimate.

That no small Guns, or Field-pieces, for the Battallions, being mentioned in the Establishment, are herein considered;

That no Carriages or Teams, for Draft, are estimated for more than what relates to the Train of Artillery.

Both which Accounts amounting to the Sum of 714,117£. 6s. 4d.;

Supply for reducing Ireland.

A Motion being made, for a Supply to be given to his Majesty, towards the Reducing of Ireland;

Resolved, That this House will resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock, to consider of that Motion.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine a Clock.