House of Commons Journal Volume 1
05 March 1607

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History of Parliament Trust

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 1: 05 March 1607', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 1: 1547-1629 (1802), pp. 348-349. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=288 Date accessed: 18 September 2014.


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Jovis, 5o Martii, 1606

Pluralities.

SIR Edward Mountague bringeth in, from the Committee, as agreed on, the Bill against Pluralities and Non-residence, with some small Amendments ; which being twice read, the Bill ordered to be ingrossed.

Privilege- Clamour against a Member.

Sir Robert Johnson complaineth to the House of a turbulent Clamour and Outcry of certain Women against him, and upon him, as he walked the Streets, for speaking against the Bill touching Wherrymenn and Watermen, &c. handled in the Committee.

The House thought fit, that Mr. Speaker should write his Letter to the Justices of Middlesex, to prevent Disorder or Violence in this Matter.

Forcible Entries.

B. Touching forcible Entries, reported by Sir Henry Poole, with Amendments; the Amendments twice read ; and the Bill to be ingrossed.

Ecclesiastical Canons.

L. 3a. An Act for Restraint of Canons ecclesiastical, &c. - Read the third time; much disputed ; and, upon Question, passed.

Lords Exception to Message.

Mr. Martin reporteth the Proceeding of the select Committee touching the Message sent from the Lords. -

Saith, that their Messenger (who was challenged for Words) had no Commission for any Form but it was left to his Discretion : Nevertheless, they found the Appellation of Barons warranted by the Statute of 6 H. VIII. and by the form of the King's Writ, which Mr. Peak, One of the Barons for Sandwich, offered to the View of the Committee, in haec verba :

REX constabulario castri sui Dovorr. ac custodi Quinque Portuum suorum, vel ejus locum-tenenti ibidem, Salutem. Quia, etc. (ut supra, usque " tractatum;" et tunc sic) Vobis, sub fide et ligeancia, quibus nobis tenemini, firmiter injungendo. mandamus, quod in quolibet portuum praedictorum duos Barones, de melioribus et discretioribus, eligi, et eos ad dictos diem et locum venire faciatis; ita quod dicti Barones plenam et sufficientem protestatem, pro se, et communitate portus sui, habeant, ad consentiendum hiis, quae tunc ibidem, de communi consilio dicti regni nostri Angliae, favente Deo, contigerint ordinari super negotiis antedictis; ita quod, pro defectu protestatis hujusmodi, seu propter improvidam, electionem Baronem praedictorum, dicta negotia infecta non remaneant quovismodo. Et habeatis ibi nomina praedictorum Baronum, et hoc breve. T. R, etc,

And the Committee conceived, that this could not justly be taken to impeach the Dignity or Privilege of that House.

For the Word Court, they thought it not fit to stand upon it.

And, upon Consideration of the whole Matter, had agreed upon a Message, and commanded it to be presented to the House in Writing; which he read out of a Paper; viz.

Whereas Yesterday a Message was brought from their Lordships, consisting of Two Parts; the first, a friendly Exception to certain Errors which had escaped our Messenger in the Delivery of his Message, which might tend to the Prejudice of the Right of their House (which they were tender and careful to preserve) in naming the Barons of the Commons Court of Parliament; to which Words (namely, Barons, and Commons Court of Parliament) their Lordships seemed to take just Exception : The second Part of the Message containing a Desire of their Lordships, that our Offer of attending this great Service with them, might be explained to be a Promise that this House meant to have a Conference with their Lordships, touching the Conveniency of Naturalization, on Saturday next, at Two a Clock in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber, with the former Committees : To this Message the Committee hath thought fit to send this Answer:

First, that there was not any Commission given from the House to the said Messenger, to use expressly the Word Barons, nor, any other Words; which is always left to the Discretion of the Messenger: And yet nevertheless it is conceived, that the Word Barons, used in that Stile, may very well be justified ; for that the Barons of the Cinque Ports have that Appellation, not only in the Places where they dwell (as their Lordships understand it) but also here in our House; and further, because that Appellation is warranted by the King's Writ, by which they are called to attend in the Commons House, in haec verba, " Firmiter injungendo mandamus, quod in quolibet portu portuum praedictorum duos Barones, de melioribus et discretioribus, eligi faciatis," &c. And in the Statute of 9 H. VIII. mention made of Barons, without Addition of Cinque Ports. And therefore they think, that their Lordships had no just Cause to take Exception to that Word ; considering that it was delivered in such Order, that their Lordships could conceive no Jealousy, that we sought to encroach upon the Rights of their Places; for that the Word Barons was placed after " Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses," and followed with this Addition, " of the Commons Court of Parliament;" which, they conceive, could not well be understood of Barons of Parliament. For the Words, of Commons Court of Parliament, the Messenger protesteth, that, to his best Remembrance, he used not the Word Court; but, if he did (which he referreth to their Lordships better Memory) he affirmeth, that it was besides his Purpose and Meaning. But for the Matter of those Words, although they doubt not, but the Commons House is a Court, and a Court of Record, and that their Lordships did not intend to take any Exception to that Point; yet, because they have no Purpose to pursue Questions accidentally arising out of Words not intended, they are willing, leaving this Point, to pass to the great Business in hand; wherein they are resolved to give their Lordships meeting, according to their Desires at the Time and Place appointed : And, if their Lordships shall then be pleased freely to open and express themselves, touching the Conveniency and Inconveniency of Naturalization, the Committees will, with like Freedom, propose unto their Lordships, what they have conceived in the same Points.

This Answer was read again by the Clerk, and approved by the House; and Mr. Martin, the Reporter, immediately sent with it to the Lords, taking the Paper with him, for the better help of his Memory.

Cutton Manor.

L. 3a. An Act to convert the Manor and Prebend of Cutton in the County of Devon (being a Prebend sine cura) to the Maintenance of a Free-school; - Being thirdly read, upon the Question, passed.

Committees.

Some Committees adjourned.

St. Saviours, Southwark.

Counsel on both Parts, in the Bill touching St. Saviours in Southwark, did, by former Order of the House, attend this Day, to be heard at the Bar.

Mr. Goldsmyth, Mr. Harris: of Counsel with the Bill.

Mr. Finch, Mr. Hitchcock : against the Bill.

Mr. Finch, against the Bill, began first, according to the Rule of the House.

Mr. Goldsmyth answered.

The Time was far spent with the Argument of these Two; and therefore the House appointed, that the Bill should rest in Committee ; the Committees to meet in the Exchequer Chamber, on Thursday next; and the Counsel to be further heard there.

Lords Exceptions to Message.

Mr. Martin returneth this Answer from the Lords;

That their Lordships were well content to give them meeting on Saturday, and to join with them freely in this great Business.

That the Statute mentioned in the Message, touching the Barons of the Cinque Ports, was not 9 H. VIII. but 6 H. VIII. in the Book at large.

For the other Part of the Message, they were not willing to enter into further Debate at that Time, though in all Points they were not satisfied.

Privilege in Suit at Law.

A Letter from Mr. Speaker, directed to the Justices in of Assise for the County of Suffolk, for the Stay of a Trial between one Bartholomew Gascoigne, as Plaintiff, and William Heigham and John Frost, Assignees to Sir John Heigham Knight, One of the Members of the House (whom the Cause principally concerned) Defendants.