House of Commons Journal Volume 10
24 April 1689

Sponsor

History of Parliament Trust

Publication

Year published

1802

Pages

Annotate

Comment on this article
Double click anywhere on the text to add an annotation in-line

Citation Show another format:

'House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 24 April 1689', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 10: 1688-1693 (1802), pp. 100-103. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=28809 Date accessed: 24 July 2014.


Highlight

(Min 3 characters)

Mercurii, 24 die Aprilis; 1° Willielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Westminster Paving.

ORDERED, That Leave be given to bring in a Bill for paving the Streets of Westminster, and other Places within the Bills of Mortality, except the City of London.

Nassau's, &c. Nat.

Sir Robert Cotton reports from the Committee to whom the Bill for Naturalizing Henry de Nassau, and others, was referred, That the Committee had thought fit to make several Amendments thereunto: Which he read in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were Once read throughout; and a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question, severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That the Bill, with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be revived; and do sit this Afternoon.

Guilford Election.

Colonel Birch reports from the Committee of Privileges and Elections, to whom the Matter touching the Election of Burgesses to serve in this present Parliament for the Borough of Guilford in the County of Surrey was referred, the State of the Case, as it appeared to the Committee: Which he delivered in at the Clerk's Table; and is as followeth:

Upon the Petition of Morgan Randyll, Esquire, touching the Election of Burgesses for the Town ofGuilford in the County of Surrey;

That the Question was, Whether the Right of Elections of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the said Town of Guilford was only in the Freemen and Freeholders of the said Town, paying Scot and Lot, and resiant in the same; or, in general, whether they paid Scot and Lot, or not.

That it was agreed, on both Sides, that Foot Onslow Esquire, was duly elected One of the Burgesses for the said Town. But

That the Counsel for the Petitioners insisted, That the Right of Election was in the Freemen and Freeholders of Guilford in general, though they did not pay Scot and Lot: That several of them being denied to be polled by the Mayor, some other proceeded in it; and that, in the Whole, there was 188 for Mr. Randyll, and 150 for Mr. Weston: And called

* Banbury, a Witness: Who delivered in Two Papers; which, he said, were Copies of Two Polls taken at the Election.

John Moore, for the Petitioner, said, He was a Freeman, and paid Scot and Lot; has lived Threescore and Thirteen Years at Guilford; and that, Forty-eight Years ago, he was polled at an Election, and all the Freemen, without Distinction. At Sir Robert Parkhurst, and Alderman Abbott's Election, he says, they polled all that did not pay Scot and Lot: And that, all that time, he did not pay Scot and Lot, being newly married, yet voted; but says, he never received Alms: And that it continued so till King James the Second his time, and then the Magistrates would have none polled, but such as paid to Church and Poor: But before, he says, an Order used to be read in the Church, for all Freemen to come to the Election: And, though he remembers Four or Five Elections, yet he never knew any Dispute about paying to Church and Poor: And that he has known those that have lived in Alms-houses, and received Alms, polled; but could name none such.

Thomas Wilkey said, he had known Elections for Forty-two Years; and, if they were Freemen, though Alms-men, they gave their Votes: That now he pays Scot and Lot, and has paid for Three Years; but, when he did not pay, he voted: That he voted for Mr. Glover, and Mr. Weston, Sir Rich. Onslow and Sir Arthur Onslow, though he did not pay Scot and Lot; and no Dispute was about their paying Scot and Lot till King James the Second's Time.

Thomas Ellis had known the Town for Forty-two Years: That, when Mr. Glover and Mr. Weston was chosen, all Freemen had their Voices, though they were so poor as to receive Alms; He was polled then, though he paid not to the Poor; but he received no Alms: That he does pay to the Poor now.

Mr. Coldham said, He took the Poll for Mr. Randyll, at his Desire, after the Poll was adjourned, and before it was declared: But, whether they were Freemen, or what they were, he knows not; but says, he polled above Fifty.

Geo. Chenell said, he knew about Fifty of those polled by Mr. Coldham to be Freemen.

Another Witness testified, That, as soon as the Court saw Mr. Randyll desired all the Freemen might Poll; and the Mayor declared none should poll, but them that paid Scot and Lot; that Mr. Randyll did offer a List of Names to Mr. Mayor after the Adjournment, and before the Poll was declared: And Mr. Mayor refused to poll them, saying, they were not qualified.

Hen. Mills and Edw. Bray said, several were denied to poll by the Mayor, though they offered themselves, that did not receive Alms, nor Scot nor Lot.

William Milton said, He knows the Men polled in the List by Coldham, except Two or Three, to be Freemen: That about Thirty-eight of them were allowed to poll in 1679: That there are about Six or Seven that receive Alms of the Parish.

That then the Counsel for the Petitioner excepted against several polled for the Sitting Members, Twentythree in Number: But the Counsel for the Sitting Members undertook to prove their Rights.

That, for the Sitting Member, Mr. Weston, the Counsel insisted, That the Right of Election was only in the Freemen and Freeholders of the Town, paying Scot and Lot, and resiant in the same.

That, upon the Casting-up of the Poll, at first, Mr. Onslow had 190, Mr. Weston 148, and Mr. Randyll 118: But afterwards the Poll was scrutinied, and reduced thus: Mr. Onslow had 143, Mr. Weston 105, Mr. Randyll 93: And delivered in the Poll taken by Order of the Mayor; And called

Mr. Child, a Witness, said, Upon the Poll there is 190 for Mr. Onslow, 148 for Mr. Weston, and 118 for Mr. Randyll: But, afterwards, there was a Scrutiny, and it was reduced: That Mr. Onslow had 143, Mr. Weston 105, Mr. Randyll 93: That several of the Persons in the List polled by Mr. Coldham, receive the Archbishop's, Abbott's, Benevolence, and none of them pay Scot and Lot; but several of them receive Alms: That some that have received that Benevolence have paid Scot and Lot; and sometimes voted on one Side, and sometimes on the other: That the Archbishop's Money was given to maintain the Manufacture in the Town; and that Trade falling, there is a Decree for it to be paid to poor People: That Mr. Randyll was not present at the Scrutiny; but the Mayor offered that he might have Two, and, he said, he was advised not: But says, the Mayor made Proclamation at first, That he would exempt no Persons, but who did not pay Scot and Lot, for their Poverty; and that, upon Scrutiny, they that received Archbishop Abbott's Money was not struck out, if they paid Scot and Lot.

Another Witness testified, The Paper given in by Mr. Coldham were most of them very poor Men, and some of them received Alms of the Parish.

Mr. Child said, Most of the Men excepted against by the Petitioner, are Freemen, and pay Scot and Lot; and though some did not, they were not exempted for Poverty.

And that, upon the whole Matter, the Committee came to Two Resolves: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same being read, are as follow;

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Town of Guilford in the County of Surrey, is only in the Freemen and Freeholders of the said Town, paying Scot and Lot, resiant in the same.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That John Weston, Esquire, is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the said Town of Guilford.

The First of the said Resolves being read a Second time;

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolve, That the Right of Election of Burgesses to serve in Parliament for the Town of Guilford in the County of Surrey, is only in the Freemen and Freeholders of the said Town, paying Scot and Lot, resiant in the same.

The Second of the said Resolves being read a Second time;

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolve, That John Weston, Esquire, is duly elected a Burgess to serve in this present Parliament for the said Town of Guilford.

Address respecting War with France.

Sir Henry Goodrick reports from the Committee to whom the Address to his Majesty in Relation to a War against France was re-committed, That the Committee, having considered the Matter to them referred, had agreed upon an Address to be presented to his Majesty: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was Once read throughout; and a Second time, Paragraph by Paragraph; and, after an Amendment made at the Table, the same was agreed unto by the House; and is as followeth:

To the King's most Excellent Majesty.

The humble Address of the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses, in Parliament Assembled.

WE, Your Majesty's most loyal and dutiful Subjects, the Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, most humbly lay before Your Majesty our earnest Desire, That Your Majesty will be pleased to take into Your most serious Consideration the destructive Methods taken, of late Years, by the French King, against the Trade, Quiet, and Interest of this Your Kingdom, and particularly, the present Invasion of the Kingdom of Ireland; and, supporting your Majesty's rebellious Subjects there; not doubting in the least, but that, through Your Majesty's Wisdom, the Alliances already made, with such as may hereafter be concluded on this Occasion, by Your Majesty, may be effectual to reduce the French King to such a Condition that it may not be in his Power hereafter to violate the Peace of Christendom, nor prejudice the Trade and Prosperity of this Your Majesty's Kingdom.

To this End, we most humbly beseech Your Majesty to rest assured, upon this our solemn and hearty Promise and Engagement, That, when Your Majesty shall think fit to enter into a War against the French King, we will give Your Majesty such Assistance in a Parliamentary Way, as may enable Your Majesty, under that Protection and Blessing God Almighty has ever afforded You, to support and go through with the same.

Resolved, That the Address be presented, by the whole House, to his Majesty.

Ordered, That such Members of this House, as are of his Majesty's most honourable Privy Council, do wait upon his Majesty, to know his Pleasure, when he will be attended with the Address of this House, in relation to a War against France.

Marshal Schombergh.

A Motion being made, That the House would take into Consideration the great Services done by Marshal Schombergh, to their Majesties and this Kingdom; and the great Losses he has sustained for the Protestant Religion;

Resolved, That this House will take that Motion into Consideration, when the Matter of the Revenue shall come under the Consideration of the House.

Affairs of Scotland.

A Message from the Lords, by the Lord Chief Baron Atkyns and . . . . Baron Nevill;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have commanded us to acquaint you, that there have been divers Letters, which we have here, that have been transmitted from Scotland to the King, by Duke Hamilton: The Lords desire to let this House know, That they are considering what is to be done for the Security of this Kingdom; and when they are come to a Resolution, they will acquaint you; and, therefore, they desire you to sit. Some of the Letters are Originals; some of them are but Copies; and the Reason why there are but Copies of some, is this; That the Originals are kept in Scotland, to be made use of against those to whom they are writ, who are in Custody: The Letters and Copies are placed in the same Method they came to the House of Lords; and as they were read there.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House will sit some time.

The Messengers were called for to come in, to be acquainted therewith; but they were gone.

Resolved, That a Message be sent to the Lords, to acquaint them, that this House will sit, as is desired; and that they intended to have so acquainted their Messengers, had they not gone away.

Mr. Hamden, One of his Majesty's most honourable Privy Council, acquaints the House, That he had the Method the Letters should be read in; and also, that One of the Letters was from the Earl of Tyrconnell to Duke Hamilton, who had sent it to his Majesty; and that it was desired there might be no Reflection upon Duke Hamilton in relation thereunto, he having acted much for his Majesty's Service.

The Letters were read, viz.

A Copy of a Letter from the Earl of Melford, to the Earl of Perth, dated Dublyn, 29 M. 1689.

A Copy of King James' Letter to Viscount Dundee, dated Dublyn, 29 M. 1689.

A Copy of King James' Letter to the Earl of Balcarasse, dated Dublyn Castle, 29 M. 1689.

A Letter from the Earl of Tyrconnell to Duke Hamilton, dated Dublyn Castle, 15 March 1689.

A Letter from the Earl of Tyrconnell to the Earl of Perth, dated Dublyn Castle, 15 March 1689.

King James' Letter, dated Dublyn, 29 March 1689.

King James' Letter, dated Dublyn, 29 March 1689.

Rights of the Subject, and Succession to the Crown.

A Bill for establishing the Articles presented to their Majesties by the Lords and Commons, and for settling the Crown, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the whole House on Saturday Morning next, at Ten of the Clock: And that the House do then resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House thereupon, accordingly.

Call of the House.

Resolved, That the Calling-over the House be adjourned, until Saturday Sevennight next.

A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Justice Powell and Mr. Justice Gregory;

Lords desire a Conference.

Mr. Speaker, the Lords desire a present Conference with this House in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the Bill of Oaths.

Yarmouth Haven.

And, also, we are to acquaint this House, That the Lords have passed the Bill touching the Haven and Piers of Great Yarmouth.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

A Debate arose in the House, in regard only a Conference was desired, after there had been a free Conference upon the same Matter.

Resolved, That the Answer to be given be, That this House will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

The Messengers were called in: And Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Members summoned.

Ordered, That the Serjeant at Arms attending this House do go into Westminster Hall, and Court of Requests, to call the Members into the House.

Resolved, That a Message be sent to the Lords, to acquaint them, That the House hath received a Message from their Lordships, for a present Conference in the Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the Bill of Oaths: That they do not conceive it to be according to the Course of Parliaments, to have a Message for a Conference, after there hath been a free Conference upon the same Subject.

Leave for Members to attend Lords.

Ordered, That Mr. Finch and Sir Wm. Williams, have Leave to attend at the Bar of the House of Lords on Saturday next, as Counsel in a Cause between the Earl of Darby and the Earl Rivers.

Supply Bill; collecting Revenue.

Sir George Treby reports from the Committee to whom the Bill for preventing Doubts and Questions touching the Revenue, was referred, That they had thought fit to make several Amendments thereto: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Table: Where the same were read once throughout, and afterwards, one by one; and agreed unto by the House.

Ordered, That the Bill with the Amendments, be ingrossed.

Message delivered to Lords.

Mr. Hamden acquaints the House, That he had, according to their Order, been up at the Lords, and delivered their Message.

Disarming Papists.

A Bill for the more speedy Convicting and Disarming of Papists, was read the Third time.

An ingrossed Clause was offered to be added, for seizing the Horses of Papists, above the Value of Five Pounds; which was read Three times; and agreed unto by the House, to be made Part of the Bill.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass: And that the Title be, An Act for the more speedy and effectual Convicting and Disarming of Papists.

Ordered, That Sir Hen. Goodrick do carry up the Bill to the Lords, for their Concurrence.

Habeas Corpus Suspension.

A Message from the Lords, by the Lord Chief Baron Atkins and Mr. Baron Nevill;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords lately sent you down some Letters, they received from their Majesties; and desired that this House would sit; and they would enter into Consideration, how to secure the Peace of the Kingdom. In pursuance of that, They have sent you down a Bill, which is intituled, An Act to impower his Majesty to apprehend and detain such Persons as they shall find just Cause to suspect are conspiring against the Government: To which they desire the Concurrence of this House.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

The Bill was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

The Bill was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

The Bill was now read the Third time.

Resolved, That the Bill do pass.

Ordered, That the Marquis of Winchester do carry up the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them with the Concurrence of this House thereunto.

Conference with Lords.-Oaths of Allegiance, &c.

A Message . . . . . ., by Mr. Baron Nevill, and Mr. Justice Powell;

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have sent us, to desire a free Conference with this House, upon the Subject Matter of the last free Conference.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Resolved, That this House do agree to a free Conference with the Lords, as is desired.

The Messengers were called in again: And Mr. Speaker acquainted them therewith.

Resolved, That the Persons that managed the last free Conference do manage this free Conference.

Sir Geo. Treby reports from the free Conference with the Lords, That the Persons appointed to manage the same had attended the Lords: And that the free Conference was managed by the Earl of Kingston, and divers other Lords, who acquainted the Managers, That they departed from their Disagreement, and did agree to the Amendments of this House; with the Proviso following:

"Provided always, and be it Enacted, by the Authority aforesaid, That it be left to the King, to allow such of the Clergy as shall refuse the Oaths prescribed by this Act, as he shall think fit, not exceeding the Number of Twelve, an Allowance out of their Ecclesiastical Benefices or Promotions, for their Subsistence, not exceeding a Third Part; and to continue during his Majesty's Pleasure, and no longer:"

But that the Lords were acquainted, That such Proviso was contrary to all Course and Practice of Parliament.

The Proviso was Thrice read; and agreed unto by the House, to be made Part of the Bill.

Resolved, That Sir George Treby do carry up the Bill to the Lords; and acquaint them with the Concurrence of this House to the Proviso.

Precedents of Amendments to Bills.

Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to search Precedents touching Proceedings between the Two Houses in relation to Amendments of Bills.

And it is referred unto Mr. Sachaverell, Sir Rich. Temple, Sir Tho. Lee, Mr. Hamden, Sir Hen. Goodrick, Sir Rob. Cotton, Sir Christopher Musgrave, Colonel Birch, Mr. Palmes, Mr. P. Foley, Mr. Tho. Foley, Mr. Somers, Mr. Boscawen, Sir Geo. Treby, Sir Tho. Clarges, Sir Wm. Williams, Mr. Garway; or any Three of them: And to make their Report to the House.

The King appoints to be attended.

Sir Henry Capell acquaints the House, That, according to their Order, he, with others of the Privy Council, had waited upon his Majesty, to know when he would be attended by this House with their Address, in relation to a War against France: And that his Majesty was pleased to appoint To-morrow, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon, at the Banqueting House at Whitehall.

Supply.

Resolved, That this House do To-morrow Morning, at Ten of the Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of the Motion made on Saturday last, for a Supply to be given for the Navy.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be adjourned.

Militia.

Resolved, That a Committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a Bill to render the Militia more effectual.

And it is referred to Sir Rich. Temple, Mr. Christy, Mr. Sacheverell, Sir Tho. Pope Blunt, Sir Hen. Goodrick, Sir Rob. Cotton, Lord Norris, Mr. Vincent, Mr. Garaway, Sir Christopher Musgrave, Sir Wm. Williams, Sir Tho. Tayler, Sir Jos. Tredenham, Mr. Alford, Mr. Howard, Mr. Cooke, Sir Tho. Clarges, Colonel Birch, Mr. Done, Sir John Key, Mr. Hunt, Sir John Knatchbull, Mr. Stockdale, Mr. Somers, Mr. Boscawen, Sir Edw. Harley, Colonel Norton, Sir John Guise, Mr. Palmes, Sir John Bancks, Mr. Paul Foley, Mr. Tho. Foley, Mr. Phil. Foley, Mr. Montague, Mr. Freke, Mr. Burrard, Mr. St. John; or any Three of them: And it is recommanded to Mr. Sacheverell, to take care of the Bill.

French Protestants.

Mr. Hampden reports from the Committee to whom it was referred to consider of a Way to relieve the French Protestant Ministers, and such others as are uncapable of maintaining themselves, otherwise than by Charity, who are fled out of France for their Religion, That the Committee having considered thereof accordingly, had found the Case to be,

That the French Ministers, and divers other Protestants of France, fled hither for Refuge, being summoned, appeared, and expressed a high sense of their Gratitude for the Generosity and Charity of this House, in taking their distressed Case into their Consideration; and, to shew how ready they are to manifest their Fidelity to the Government of this Nation, they represented, how the youngest and strongest of their Body were lately formed into Three Regiments, who were ready to lay down their Lives in Defence of the Protestant Religion, and the Liberties of England.

That there are near Twenty thousand more of them, who exercise their Trades in divers Parts of this Kingdom, without any Detriment, as they humbly hope, but rather to the Advantage, of the People of this Nation: But that there still remains above Two thousand Persons; some of them old, others Infants, others sick and impotent; but all unable to provide for themselves; Divines, Physicians, Merchants, Gentry, common People, many of them heretofore rich and flourishing in their own Country, but now are reduced to the utmost Misery; and must infallibly perish and starve, unless assisted by this House, the Money of the Two late Collections made upon the Briefs obtained from the late King James, not being sufficient to last beyond the End of the next June; after which, they have nothing to trust to, but the Mercy of God, and the Piety and Compassion of this House.

The Committee examined the Management and Distribution of the Money raised by the Two said Collections; the First whereof amounted to about Fifty thousand Pounds; and the latter, to about Fifteen thousand Pounds: Which Two Sums have served them for about Three Years and an half.

The Committee, upon Examination, found the said Two Sums to have been faithfully employed for the Ends mentioned in the aforesaid Briefs; and all Parties concerned to be well satisfied.

That after this, the Committee proceeded to the Consideration of the present State of the said distressed French Protestants: And it appeared to them, That there are now to be provided for, about One hundred poor Ministers, and their Familes, amounting in all, to about Three hundred Persons; about a hundred Gentlemen, and their Families, amounting likewise to about Three hundred Persons; about Four hundred Physicians, Lawyers, Citizens, &c. about Four hundred common People; Sixty fick Persons at the Pest House; about a Hundred Children at Nurse; and about Four hundred Persons in divers Places in the Country.

Upon Calculation of the yearly Sum requisite for the Support of these distressed People, they found, That a Revenue of Seventeen thousand Two hundred Pounds per Annum is necessary for the Support of the distressed French Protestants.

That the Committee proceeded to consider of a Fund that might be proper for the raising the said yearly Sum: Divers Things were propounded, as the renewing the Tax upon Coal; the laying One per Cent. upon all Merchandizes exported and imported, as has been formerly done for the Redemption of Captives; the Revenue that may be raised upon Hackney Coaches; Taxes to be laid upon Paper; the Wine Licence Office, Post Office, and others: But, upon the whole Matter, the Committee, being desirous to find out a Fund that might be most convenient, and least burdensome to the Publick; and might, at the same time, most certainly answer the charitable Intentions of this House, and yield the aforesaid Sum, without Difficulty to the said distressed French Protestants; came to these Resolutions: Which he read in his Place; and afterwards delivered the same in at the Clerk's Tables Where the same being read, are as follows:

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That a Revenue of Seventeen thousand Two hundred Pounds per Annum is necessary for the Support of the distressed French Protestants.

Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the new Imposition upon Wine and Vinegar, which is to expire the Twentieth of July 1693, is a proper Fund for the Charging the said Sum of Seventeen thousand Two hundred Pounds per Annum.

Royal Assent to Bills.

A Message from the King, by Sir Thomas Duppa, Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod;

Mr. Speaker,

The King commands this honourable House to attend his Majesty, immediately, in the House of Peers.

Accordingly, the House went up to the House of Peers, to attend his Majesty.

And being returned;

Mr. Speaker acquaints the House, That his Majesty had given his Royal Assent to the following Bills; viz.

An Act for impowering his Majesty to apprehend and detain such Persons as he shall find just Cause to suspect are conspiring against the Government.

An Act for the abrogating the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance, and appointing other Oaths.

An Act for the amoving Papists, and reputed Papists, from the Cities of London and Westminster, and Ten Miles distant from the same.

An Act for the taking away the Revenue arising by Hearth-money.

An Act for the encouraging the Exportation of Corn.

An Act for the explaining and making more effectual, a Statute made in the First Year of the Reign of King James the Second, concerning the Haven and Piers of Great Yarmouth.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Nine of the Clock.