Jovis, 19 die Novembris; 3° Gulielmi et Mariæ.
A MESSAGE from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke
and Dr. Edisbury;
Mr. Speaker, The Lords have passed a Bill, intituled,
An Act for Sale of the Manor and Lands in Wittering
in the County of Northampton, and the Advowson of the
Church of Wittering aforesaid, late the Inheritance of
Wm. Stydolph, Esquire, deceased, late Father of Sigismond Stydolph, Esquire: To which they desire the
Concurrence of this House.
Lords desire a Conference.
Also, that the Lords desire a Conference with this
House, this Morning at Eleven a Clock, in the Painted
Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference.
And then the Messengers withdrew.
Resolved, That this House doth agree to a Conference
with the Lords, as their Lordships do desire.
And the Messengers were called in again; and acquainted therewith.
Resolved, That the Persons who managed the last
Conference do manage this Conference.
Mr. Christie, according to Order, presented to the
House a Bill for Registering of Servants that shall go to
the Plantations, pursuant to Letters Patents granted for
that Purpose. And the same was received.
The Bill was read the First time.
Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time.
Conference on intercepted Papers.
Then the Managers appointed went up to the Conference: And being returned;
Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer reports, That the
Managers appointed had attended the Lords at the Conference: And that the Duke of Bolton began the Conference; and said, That the Lords were willing to maintain a good Correspondence always between the Two
Houses, especially in Matters of this great Importance;
and should be glad to join with this House at any time in
the Discovery of any Designs against the King and King
dom, of which this House were the true Representatives;
and were very well satisfied with the Respect of this House
to them: And the Reason why they did not send to this
Conference Yesterday was, because this House was up
before they had received a full Account of the Matter to
communicate: But that now the Lord Kiveton (formerly
called the Lord Danby) had been there; and had given
his Information: Which their Lordships gave to the Managers in Writing, viz. an Examination they called it:
That their Lordships also delivered the Papers, which
were taken by Sir Ralph Delavall; and the Letter from
him to the Earl of Nottingham: That the Papers came to
them sealed, as they now are delivered to the Managers:
That they were sent up by Sir Ralph Delavall to the
Earl of Nottingham: But that the Earl of Nottingham
did not receive them from the Messengers; but appointed, that the Messengers should attend at the Door of
the House of Lords: Who was afterwards brought by
the Lords Direction into their House: Where he delivered the same: And that he was sworn that he
delivered them as he received them.
That, in the said Examination of the Lord Danby, is
mentioned Copies of Two Letters, one from Monsieur de
Ginckle to Sir Ralph Delavall, the other from the Earl of
Nottingham to Sir Ralph Delavall: But that when the
Packet came to be opened, there could be found but one
of those Papers; viz. the Copy of a Letter from Monsieur
de Ginckle: But that the Lord Rochester said, That Sir
Ralph Delavall's Letter to the Earl of Nottingham said,
That he had sent all that he had taken.
That the Lords did desire, That when this House had
made what Use they thought fit of those Papers, they
would let them have them again: And that they said further, That they had sent for Four other Persons to be
examined in this Business, which are not yet come; viz.
one Martyn, Mr. Battyn, and the Captain of the Ship that
was taken, and the Captain of the Ship that took them.
And then Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer delivered
in at the Table the Packet sealed up, and Information of
the Lord Kyveton, and Letter from Sir Ralph Delavall.
The said Information or Examination of the Lord Kiveton, dated 18 November 1691, was read; and is
as followeth; viz.
18 Die Novembris 1691.
The Lord Kiveton saith, That he was in Company with
a noble Peer of this House, and Two Members of the
House of Commons: The noble Peer shewed his Lordship
a Letter; the Postscript of which gave Intelligence, That
Sir Ralph Delavall had taken a French Packet Boat bound
for Ireland; in which there was found a Copy of Sir Ralph
Delavall's Instructions: And his Lordship was asked by
that noble Peer, and those Gentlemen of the House of
Commons (amongst other Questions, about News) Whether the Postscript of that Letter was true: And his
Lordship answered, That there was no such Thing as a
Copy of any Instructions that his Lordship had seen; but
that there was Copies of Two Letters, the Titles of
which, one of them, was a true Copy of General Ginckle's
Letter to Sir Ralph Delavall; and the other was titled,
A Copy of the Lord Nottingham's Letter to Sir R. Delavall. His Lordship says, He had not Time to read any
more than the Beginning of General Ginckle's Letter;
which seemed to wish for Sir Ralph Delavall's expediting
his Voyage to the Coast of Ireland. Sir Ralph Delavall
told his Lordship, He wondered to see Copies of Letters,
when the Originals never came to his Hands.
His Lordship further saith, That he asked the Commander of this small Vessel, Who was then on board
Sir Ralph; Whither he was going, when he was taken:
And he told him, He was going to the French Squadron,
under the Command of Monsieur Chesteau Renaut. His
Lordship asked him, From whence he came: He told him,
From Brest: And also his Lordship asked him, Where
he left Monsieur Chesteau Renaut: And he told him, to
the best of his Lordship's Memory, He left him near the
Coast of Ireland: And his Lordship also asked him,
What Strength he had with him: And he said, He had
Eighteen Sail of Men of War fit for the Line of Battle;
and that Monsieur Chesteau Renaut himself was in a
Three-decked Ship of Eighty odd Guns; and that none
of those Eighteen Ships were of less Force than of Fifty
Guns: That they had about Fifty Sail of Merchantmen
with them, laden with Arms for Thirty thousand Men;
and all manner of Ammunition and Stores for the same.
His Lordship asked him, How he came to fall in with the
English Fleet: He said, That he, not knowing that the
English Fleet was at Sea, believed it might be their own
Fleet drove so far to the Leeward of their Station; which
he said was to have been West-south-west from Scilly
Fifteen Leagues: That, when he saw his Error, he made
the best of his Way from the English Fleet he could, but
was taken by one of the English Cruisers.
His Lordship says, He had this Discourse, and much
more of little Importance, which he doth not well remember, with this Commander, before he had seen the
Copies of those Letters.
His Lordship further says, That he heard Sir Ralph
Delavall, and some of the other Officers then on board,
say, That this Man had owned he had a Packet which
he had thrown overboard, when he found he could not
escape; saying, That they could not blame him for it, it
being his Duty, and what he believed any of them would
have done for the Service of their Prince; and that these
Papers were not so ready, being Papers, as he thought,
of less Consequence. He told his Lordship, That Monsieur Chesteau Renaut his going out was designed for
the Relief of Lymerick. His Lordship says, That the
aforesaid Papers were taken out of a Vellum Case, in
which there was several other Papers: And that Sir Ralph
Delavall did say to his Lordship, That he did not know,
but that they might be Papers of Consequence.
The Letter from Sir Ralph Delavall to the Earl of
Nottingham, dated November 16, 1691, was read; and
is as followeth; viz.
I Received yours, dated the Fourteenth instant 91;
and, according to your Desire, have sent you every
Paper that came to me by Captain Gillam, who took the
Prize: If I had believed them of any Moment, I should
not failed of transmitting them to your Lordship by the
first Opportunity; nor can I apprehend how these Reports should arise. It is true, at That Time Captain Gillam brought the French Captain on board with these only
Papers, my Lord Danby and several Commanders were
on board: My Lord read them, as understanding French,
which I do not; and so did several others, but could not
believe there was any thing in them that should give
Ground for such Report: Yet, when I consider, how
much I find I am traduced for not doing an Impossibility,
or rather not obeying an Order I never received, I do not
wonder. I wish the Opinion of the Dutch Flags, as also
of the Captains that are Seamen with me on this last
Cruize, were asked, Whether I have acted according to
Reason, and like a Seamen: And shall presume to say,
That, if I were now to go on the same Service, I would
not run such Hazards as I did. But I must submit;
Your Lordship's most obedient Servant,
16 Nov. 91.
To the Right honourable
the Earl of Nottingham
Principal Secretary of
And the Packet was opened: Wherein was included
Eighteen Papers numbered, inclosed in a Piece of Vellum.
Resolved, That the Perusal, Examination, and Translation of the said Papers and Vellum Cover, be referred
to a Committee: And that they do report their Opinions
therein to the House.
And it is referred to Mr. Bridges, Mr. Chancellor of
the Exchequer, Mr. Hutchinson, Lord Marquis Winchester, Lord Brandon, Sir Jos. Williamson, Sir Cha. Rashleigh, Mr. Mountague, Sir Rob. Clayton, Sir Jos. Tredenham, Mr. Paul Foley, Sir Christopher Musgrave, Colonel
Granville, Mr. Dolben, Sir Rob. Davers, Serjeant Trenchard, Sir Rob. Rich, Earl of Bellamont, Mr. England,
Mr. Clarke, Sir Jervas Elwes, Mr. Gott, Sir Rob. Cotton,
Sir John Guise, Lord Digby, Mr. Wharton, Sir Tho.
Dyke, Sir Edward Hussey, Mr. Gwyn, Mr. Price, Sir
Cha. Windham, Lord Castleton, Sir Thom. Mompesson,
Mr. Traverse, Sir Ralph Carre, Mr. Buscawen, Sir Tho.
Clargis, Mr. Fuller, Lord Norreis, Mr. England, Mr.
Burrard, Mr. Fawkes, Mr. Bedding feild, Sir Cha. Sidley,
Mr. Niccolas, Mr. Fox, Sir John Wynn, Mr. Tredenham,
Lord Pawlet, Sir Rob. Cotton, Mr. Norreys, Sir Sam. Bernardiston, Mr. Bathurst, Sir John Cotton: And they are
to meet on Friday next, at Four of the Clock in the
Afternoon, in the Speaker's Chamber: And are impowered to send for Persons, Papers, and Records.
Oath of Supremacy in Ireland.
A Message from the Lords by Mr. Justice Gregory
and Mr. Justice Eyres;
Mr. Speaker, The Lords have agreed to a Bill, sent
up from this House, intituled, An Act for the abrogating
the Oath of Supremacy in Ireland, and appointing other
Oaths; with several Amendments: To which they desire
the Concurrence of this House.
And then the Messengers withdrew.
Then the Order of the Day, for the House to resolve
into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further
of the Supply to be granted to their Majesties, in relation
to the Land Forces, was read.
The Lord Ranelagh acquainted the House, That he
was commanded by his Majesty to lay before the House
a Distribution of the Land Forces mentioned in the Estimate, formerly delivered in to this House: The which
he read in his Place; and afterwards, delivered in, in
Writing, at the Clerk's Table: Where the same was
read; and is as followeth; viz.
Four Regiments of Horse, Two of Three hundred each, and Two of Two hundred and Thirteen each, making together
|One Regiment of Dragoons
|Twelve Regiments of Foot, of Seven hundred and Eighty each, making
|One Independent Company
One Regiment of Horse
|Two Regiments of dragoons, of Four hundred and Eighty each
|Fifteen Regiments of Foot, of Seven hundred and Eighty each
|A Troop of Guards
|A Regiment of Dragoons
|Two Regiments of Foot, of Seven hundred and Eighty each
|In the West Indies.|
One Regiment of Foot
|Three Independent Companies, of Sixty each
Of which, One thousand Four hundred and Forty Horse,
One thousand Eight hundred Dragoons, and Twentythree thousand Six hundred and Thirty Foot: And so
remains to be transported beyond Seas Six thousand Six
hundred and Thirty Horse, One thousand Six hundred
and forty Dragoons, and Twenty-nine thousand Seven
hundred and Eighty Foot: In all, Thirty-eight thousand
and Fifty Men.
Resolved, That the Consideration thereof be referred
to the Committee of the whole House; who are to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their Majesties, in relation to the Land Forces.
Then the House, according to the said Order of the
Day, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House,
to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their
Majesties, in relation to the Land Forces.
Mr. Speaker left the Chair.
Mr. Solicitor General took the Chair of the Committee.
Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.
Mr. Solicitor General reports from the said Committee,
That they had agreed upon a Resolution; which they had
directed him to report to the House: The which he read
in his Place; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's
Table: Where the same was read; and is as followeth;
Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Committee,
That an Army of Sixty-four thousand Nine hundred
Twenty-four Men is necessary for the Service of the Year
1692, in order to the securing the Peace of the Kingdom,
and the carrying on a vigorous War against France.
The said Resolution being read a Second Time;
Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution, That an Army of Sixtyfour thousand Nine hundred Twenty-four Men is necessary for the Service of the Year 1692, in order to the
securing the Peace of the Kingdom, and the carrying on
a vigorous War against France.
Mr. Solicitor General also acquainted the House, That
he was directed to move the House, That the Committee
may have Leave to sit again.
Resolved, That this House will, upon Monday Morning
next, at Ten a Clock, resolve itself into a Committee
of the whole House, to consider further of the Supply to
be granted to their Majesties, in relation to the Land
Ordered, That all Committees be adjourned
And then the House adjourned till To-morrow
Morning, Nine of the Clock.