December 1691

Commons Journal

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CSPD William and Mary

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House of Commons Journal Volume 10
15 December 1691

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History of Parliament Trust

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1802

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'House of Commons Journal Volume 10: 15 December 1691', Journal of the House of Commons: volume 10: 1688-1693 (1802), pp. 586-589. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=29170 Date accessed: 30 July 2014.


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Martis, 15 die Decembris; 3° Gulielmi et Mariæ.

Prayers.

Leave of Absence.

ORDERED, That Hen. Portman, Esquire, have Leave to go into the Country for a Month, his Mother being ill.

Eyre's Estate.

Mr. Leving, according to Order, presented to the House a Bill to enable the Trustees of Anthony Eyre, Esquire, to sell Lands in the County of Chester, for the Payment of his Debts, and for the Settling of Lands in the County of Lincolne, of as good Value, in lieu thereof. And the same was received.

St. Anne's Westminster Church.

Sir Thomas Clarges, according to Order, presented to the House a Bill for supplying the Defects in an Act made in the First Year of the late King James, for enabling the Inhabitants of the Parish of Saint Anne within the Liberty of Westminster, to raise Money to build a Church to be the Parish Church there. And the same was received.

The Bill was read the First time.

Ordered, That the Bill be read a Second time.

Roberts' Estate.

An ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act to vest certain Messuages, Lands, and Tenements in Thorpe, Langton, and elsewhere, in the County of Leicester, in Trustees, to be sold for Payment of Debts of Richard Roberts, Esquire, and for raising Portions for his Daughters, was read the Second time.

Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Sir Tho. Haslerig, Mr. Fenwick, Mr. Gray, Mr. Thomson, Mr. Carter, Sir John Carew, Mr. Christie, Mr. Waller, Mr. Mitchell, Mr. Hawtry, Mr. Biddolph, Sir Rob. Edon, Mr. Chetwyn, Sir Rob. Davers, Mr. Palmes, Mr. Blowfeild, Mr. Slater, Sir Tho. Darcy, Sir Rob. Cotton, Mr. Sherrard, Mr. Colt, Mr. Travers, Mr. Freeman, Mr. Leving, Sir Willfred Lawson, Mr. Kenyon, Mr. Cary, Sir John Cotton, Sir John Dorrell, Sir Jos. Herne, Mr. Willmot, Mr. Foster, Sir Tho. Mackworth, Mr. Hyde, Mr. Wyndham, Mr. Pendarvis, Sir Wm. Strickland: And they are to meet this Afternoon at Three of the Clock, in the Speaker's Chamber.

Supply Bill; Land Tax.

A Bill for the granting to their Majesties the Sum of Sixteen hundred Fifty-one thousand Seven hundred and Two Pounds, upon Land, towards the carrying on a vigorous War against France, was read the First time.

Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time Tomorrow Morning.

Plantation Servants.

Ordered, That the ingrossed Bill for registring Servants that shall go to the Plantations, pursuant to Letters Patents granted for that Purpose, be read the Third time To-morrow Morning.

Making Salt-petre.

Ordered, That Serjeant Trenchard, Mr. Burridge, be added to the Committee to whom the Bill for making of Saltpetre here in England, is committed.

Conference on intercepted Papers.

Then the Order of the Day, for a Conference with the Lords, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference, was read.

Resolved, That the Persons who managed the former Conference, do manage this Conference to be this Day with the Lords.

And the Managers went to the Conference accordingly;

And being returned;

Colonel Granville reported, That the Managers had attended the Conference: And that the Earl of Rochester managed the Conference; and acquainted them, That the Lords had taken all the Care they could in examining the Matter relating to the Papers taken in a French Vessel; and had directed, That the Examinations, together with their Opinion thereupon, should be communicated to this House; and delivered the same to them: Which Colonel Granville delivered in at the Table: Where the same were read; and are as followeth; viz.

"24 Novembris 1691."

"The House being informed, That Sir Ralph Delavall was at the Door, pursuant to the Order made Yesterday; he was called in; and sworn at the Bar: And, being asked several Questions concerning a Packet of Letters or Papers taken by Captain Gillam in a French Vessel, and sent up by him hither; he said to the Effect following; viz."

"That Captain Gillam having taken a French Vessel, and signifying to him, That there was Papers in it from the Governor of Lymerick; he sent his Smack for them: Which after he had received, and being read to him, his Captain (who understood French, which he doth not) told him, That they related to the carrying the People from Lymerick: He said, the said French Captain was sent from Ireland to Brest, to Monsieur Shaternoe: But he not being there, he was sent back again, to find him out, to deliver him the said Papers. Some time after, when the Weather was a little calm, he called some Captains on board; amongst whom was the Lord Danby; who read Part of the Papers cursorily; and said, They concerned the Treaty in Ireland. He saith the Papers he sent up were all he received from Captain Gillam: He locked them up in his Closet, where he kept all his Concerns; and had but one Servant that used to go into his Closet, and he could neither write nor read. He saith, He never heard any one that saw the Letters or Papers say, That there was any Copy of a Letter amongst them from the Earl of Nottingham to himself."

"Then the French Captain, being called in, and sworn, says, That he was sent by the Intendant from Brest, Seventh September, New Stile, to Ireland: The Twentysecond October he went from Ireland: That the French General Dusone sent Two Gentlemen aboard him, to carry to Brest; where he arrived the Twenty-ninth: That the Intendant of Brest sent him, with the Papers taken aboard him, to deliver to Monsieur Shaterno where-ever he could find him: That he set Sail for Brest First November; and was taken by Captain Gillam the Third: And that he threw no Packet overboard; he having no such Orders."

"Duvynage Dorde Lin."

"Die Lunæ, 14 Decembris 1691."

"Upon hearing the Fifth December instant what Captain Martyn said upon Oath; viz.

"Oct. 21. 1691.

"Wind at E. by S. blowing very hard, about Ten in the Morning the Chester came under our Stern with a French Prize: He called, and told us, That he had taken in that Prize, a French Packet, directed to Monsieur Chaternoe. It being such a great Sea, that no Boat could with Safety be put out, Sir Ralph Delavall ordered to send our Smack to bring the said Papers on board: Which he did, by heaving a Lead Line on board the Chester, to which they made fast the Packet; which the Smack, in the like manner, did heave on board us. The Paper was tied up in a Parchment Cartridge; which was brought to Sir Ralph Delavall as we were at Prayers. After Prayers, Sir Ralph asked me, if I could interpret French: I answered, That I was no Master of that Language, but that I understood it a little. He desired me to read those Letters, and to endeavour to let him know, What they imported: And, after I had perused them, I told Sir Ralph, That the Tenour of the Letter from General Ginckle to him was as followeth."

"Sir,

"Having understood by my Lord Nottingham, That you are to command the Squadron of Ships designed to cruise upon the Coast of Ireland, I thought fit to acquaint you, That, by the Capitulation of the Surrender of Lymerick, all Hostilities are to cease, both by Sea and Land, upon that Coast of Ireland, till such time as the French and Irish Troops that are in Ireland be transported: Wherefore, if you should meet with any French Ships of Transport, or others, I desire that it may be observed by you; because it will tend very much to the putting an End to the Business in Hand. The French General hath wrote in the same manner to him, that is, to command their Squadron upon this Coast. As I remember, one of the Copies was attested by Dursone, Governor of Lymericke."

"The Copy of the Letter from the French General to Monsieur Chasteau Renault, or him that commanded the French Squadron upon the Coast of Ireland, was, to the best of my Memory, as followeth."

"Sir,

"I thought fit to acquaint you, At the Surrender of Lymerick, it was agreed with him that commanded the English Squadron in the Shannon, That all Hostilities should cease, by Sea as well as by Land, till such Time as the French and Irish Troops are transported: Wherefore I advise you, with the Ships of War under your Command, to come to an Anchor in Dingle Bay, and send the Transport Ships into the Shannon, for the more easy imbarking his Majesty's Troops aboard the Transport Ships; where Transport Ships will be very safe: Or to that Purpose."

"And in a Postscript;"

"Sir, Since I wrote this, having understood that Dingle Bay is dangerous, and not a safe Road for this Season of the Year, I desire that you anchor in the Bantry Bay, near to the Isle of Scatterowe."

"There were some other Letters from private Persons, but of no Import."

"That is all that . . . told Sir Ralph Delavall: And farther I know not."

And afterwards the Lord Keveton, in his Place, having expressed himself to the Effect following; That he did verily believe, he had seen a Copy of a Letter from the Earl of Nottingham in the Packet taken on board the French Vessel, as he had formerly informed this House:

Yet, acknowledging he was in great Haste when he saw that Packet, by reason of the Badness of the Weather, which obliged him to return on board his own Ship as soon as possibly he could; and, considering the Worth and Integrity of Sir Ralph Delavall, Captain Martin (who had more Leisure than his Lordship had to consider all the Papers that were found in the said Packet; who both agreed in their Informations to this House, That there was no Copy of any Letter from the Earl of Nottingham taken in the said Packet;) his Lordship having owned, that he believed himself mistaken in his former Affirmation; which was occasioned, as his Lordship believes, from having seen the Earl of Nottingham's Name in the Beginning of Monsieur Ginckle's Letter to Sir Ralph Delavall, of which there were Two or Three Copies found in the said Packet; Their Lordships are of Opinion, upon all the Informations they have taken of this Matter, That there was not a Copy of any Letter from the Earl of Nottingham to Sir Ralph Delavall taken on board the said French Vessel.

Resolved, That this House doth agree with the Lords, That there was not a Copy of any Letter from the Earl of Nottingham to Sir Ralph Delavall taken on board the said French Vessel.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Sir Rich. Hart have Leave to go into the Country for a Fortnight, for his Health.

A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and Sir James Astry;

Lord Hatton's Estate.

Mr. Speaker, The Lords have agreed to the Amendments made by this House to the Bill, intituled, An Act for settling a Fee Farm Rent of One hundred Pounds per Annum upon the Bishop of Ely, and his Successors, to be issuing out of Hatton Garden in the County of Middlesex, and the Messuages thereupon erected; and for settling and assuring the said Rent upon Christopher Lord Viscount Hatton, his Heirs and Assigns for ever.

Causes in Chancery.

Also the Lords do desire, That the Bill sent down Yesterday, intituled, An Act for the better Reviewing of Causes in Chancery, and other Courts of Equity, may be returned; that it may be signed by the Clerk, according to usual Form.

And then the Messengers withdrew.

Army in Ireland.

Then Sir John Guise reported, according to the Order of the Day, from the Committee appointed to consider, What the Charge of the Army in Ireland will be for the Year 1692, and how far that Kingdom can contribute to the Support of that Charge, That they had considered the same: And that there were Two Establishments offered to the Committee for Ireland, one by a very experienced Member of the House, the other by the Paymaster of Ireland: Both which being read, and the ancient Establishments compared, there appeared to be some Difference in Forming of the Regiments, computed at near double the Number; which did not appear to be so in King Charles the Second's Time; by which there might have been about Thirty thousand Pounds lessened of the Expence: But that many of the Committee were of an Opinion, That that Manner of forming Regiments was not to be approved of: And that therefore the Question was put, That the First Establishment brought in to the Committee should be the Establishment for Ireland, for the Year 1692: But that it was carried in the Negative. And that then the Question being put upon the Second Establishment; the same was resolved in the Affirmative: And that That Deduction was always made in Ireland, in the Time mentioned in the Resolution of the House.

That then the Committee began to consider of the General Officers, Ordnance, and Ammunition: But that it was their Opinion, That that was not within the Order of the Committee.

That then the Charge of the Civil List was given in at Twenty-three thousand Pounds; But that, after several Arguments, the same Committee came to a Resolution concerning the same.

That the before-mentioned was the Charge that Ireland will be at for Support of the Government and Forces in the Year 1692.

That afterwards the Committee considered, What it would pay towards that Charge: And, in order to That, perused ancient Accompts of that Kingdom; and from thence took Mediums, allowing Difference by reason of the War, by a general Consent of the Committee: And came to several Resolutions thereupon; viz.

£. s. d.
Resolved, That a Deduction being made out of the Establishment delivered by Mr. Fox, of Twenty-nine Days in the Year, the said Establishment be the Establishment for Ireland, for the Year 1692: And comes to 213,441 4 -
That the Charge of the Civil List for Ireland will be, for the Year 1692 18,000 - -
231,441 4 -
Resolved, That the Customs inward and outward, and imported Excise of Ireland, for the Year 1692, will amount to, neat Money 80,000 - -
That the inland Excise, and Ale, and Wine Licences in Ireland, will, for the Year 1692, neat Money, amount to 50,000 - -
That the Quit Rents of Ireland, for the Year 1692, neat Money, will amount to 33,000 - -
That the casual Revenue, and Rents of the forfeited Lands in Ireland, for the Year 1692, neat Money, will amount to 10,000 - -
That the Hearth Money in Ireland, for 1692, will amount to 17,000 - -
190,000 - -
That, for the Year 1692, there be applied to the paying off the Forces to remain in Ireland, of the Revenue there 172,000 - -
So that the several Heads, according to the several Resolutions aforesaid, amount as followeth:
That the Revenue of Ireland, in the Whole, is the Sum of 190,000 - -
Out of which, taking for the Civil List 18,000 - -
There remains 172,000 - -
And that the Charge being 213,441 4 -
The said one hundred Seventy-two thousand Pounds being deducted; there remains for England to pay 41,441 4 -

Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Report and Resolutions be referred to the Committee of the whole House, who are to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their Majesties for the carrying on a vigorous War against France.

Supply.

Then the House, according to the Order of the Day, resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their Majesties for the carrying on a vigorous War against France.

Mr. Speaker left the Chair.

Mr. Solicitor General took the Chair of the Committee.

Mr. Speaker resumed the Chair.

Mr. Solicitor General reported from the said Committee, That they had made some further Progress in the Matter to them referred: And that they had directed him to move the House, That they may have Leave to sit again.

Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Morning, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider further of the Supplies to be granted to their Majesties for the carrying on a vigorous War against France, after the Committee of the whole House hath sat upon the Bill for paying the Army according to the Musters of effective Men, and for better paying of Quarters, and likewise for Preventing of false Musters, and for punishing Mutineers and Deserters.

Royal Mines.

Ordered, That the adjourned Debate upon the Bill for explaining a Proviso touching Royal Mines, in the Statute made in the First Year of their Majesties Reign, intituled, An Act for Repeal of the Statute of the Fifth Hen. IVth, against multiplying Gold and Silver, be resumed; and the King's Counsel heard upon the said Bill upon Tuesday Morning next.

Leave of Absence.

Ordered, That Mr. Bromly have Leave to go into the Country for Three Weeks, his Wife being ill.

Members not to be absent without Leave.

Ordered, That no Member of this House do presume to go out of Town without Leave of the House first obtained; and the same to be moved only between the Hours of Eleven and Two of the Clock: And that if any of the Members do go out of Town without such Leave, that they be sent for in Custody of the Serjeant at Arms attending this House.

Committees.

Ordered, That all Committees be adjourned.

And then the House adjourned till To-morrow Morning, Eight a Clock.