Veneris, 5 die Februarii; 3° Gulielmi et Mariæ.
ORDERED, That all Committees be revived.
Hudson's Bay Company.
Mr. Christy, according to Order, presented to the
House a Bill for the more effectual Execution of a former
Act concerning the Company trading to Hudson's Bay.
And the same was received.
And the Bill was read the First time.
Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time.
Mr. Waller reported from the Committee to whom the
Bill to prevent Frauds by clandestine Mortgages, was
committed, That they had made several Amendments
to the Bill; which they had directed him to report to the
House: And which he read in his Place, with the Coherence; and afterwards delivered in at the Clerk's Table:
Where the same were read once throughout; and then
a Second time, one by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon, agreed unto by the House.
Ordered, That the Bill, with the Amendments, be
Seamen in West India Trade.
Sir Peter Colliton, according to Order, presents to the
House a Bill for permitting English Ships to be navigated by Foreign Seamen, to and from the West Indies,
during the War. And the same was received.
The Bill was read the First time.
Resolved, That the Bill be read a Second time.
Mr. Cary reports from the Committee to whom the
ingrossed Bill from the Lords, intituled, An Act to
enable Thomas Kinersly to make a Lease or Leases for
Payment of his Debts, was committed, That they had
considered the Bill; and had directed him to report the
same to the House, without any Amendments.
Ordered, That Sir Fran. Massam, Mr. Roberts, Sir
John Bolles, Mr. Norreis, Mr. Beare, be added to the
Committee appointed to receive Proposals for the raising
Monies upon the Forfeitures of Irish Estates, and for
inquiring into the Disposals of Irish Forfeitures.
Lords desire a Conference.
A Message from the Lords, by Sir Miles Cooke and
Sir James Astry;
Mr. Speaker, The Lords do desire a Conference with
this House, this Morning at Eleven of the Clock, in the
Painted Chamber, upon the Subject Matter of the last
And then the Messengers withdrew.
Resolved, That this House doth agree to a Conference
with the Lords, as they desire.
And the Messengers were called in again; and Mr.
Speaker acquainted them therewith.
Ordered, That the Members who managed the last
Conference, do manage this Conference.
Leave of Absence.
Ordered, That Major General Trelawny have Leave
to go into the Country, upon extraordinary Occasions.
A Petition of Sir John Massam, Baronet, and Sir
Robert Massam, Knight, was read; setting forth, That the
Petitioners in Sir Robert Viner's Life-time, obtained Judgment against him, and executed an Elegit upon his Estate
in Middlesex, for a real Debt, lent above Twenty Years
past: and have recovered Judgment in Ejectment, and
are in full and quiet Possession of the Premises; and
there is now about Two thousand Pounds remaining behind
of the Petitioner's Debt; which is well secured by the
Laws hitherto made: But there being a Bill relating to
Bankrupts brought into this House, for compelling Creditors to accept of such a Composition as the major Part
shall agree unto; and the Executor of Sir Robert Viner
designing to take Advantage thereof, and to conclude the
Petitioner thereby, and so to destroy the Petitioners
Security, to the Petitioners great Prejudice; and praying,
That they might be heard by their Counsel, at the Bar
of this House, before the said Bill be ingrossed; to shew
Reasons against the same.
Ordered, That the Consideration of the said Petition
be referred to the Committee to whom the Bill for the
better Discovery, and more equal Distribution of Bankrupts Estates, is committed.
Leave of Absence.
Ordered, That Sir John Knight have Leave to go into the
Country for Three Weeks, for Recovery of his Health.
Duchy of Cornwall Leasing.
A Bill to enable their Majesties to make Leases of the
Duchy of Cornewall, was read the Second time.
Resolved, That the Bill be committed to Mr. Boscowen,
Sir Sam. Barnadiston, Mr. Travers, Mr. Harcourt, Sir
Jos. Tredenham, Mr. Arnald, Mr. Christy, Sir Wm. Honywood, Sir John Moreton, Sir Hen. Ashurst, Mr. Bowyer,
Mr. Henly, Sir Rich. Onslow, Sir Rob. Cotton, Sir Rob.
Henly, Mr. Goldwell, Colonel Titus, Mr. Cary, Sir Jon.
Jenings, Mr. Colt, Mr. Roberts, Mr. Attorney General,
Mr. Serjeant Tremaine, Mr. Gray, Lord Powlett, Mr.
Ryder, Mr. Tilney, Sir Richard Temple, Sir Walter Young,
Sir Jervas Elwes, Sir John Bolls, Mr. Biddolph, Mr.
Solicitor General, and the Commissioners of the Treasury, who are Members of the House, and all the Members that serve for the County of Cornwall and Devon:
And they are to meet this Afternoon, at Four a Clock,
in the Speaker's Chamber.
Punishment of Offenders.
Then the House proceeded to take into their Consideration the Amendment, made by the Lords, to the
Amendments, made by this House to a Bill, intituled,
An Act to take away Clergy from some Offenders, and
to bring others to Punishment.
And the same were read; and are as followeth; viz.
Press 1, Line 31, after "likewise," add "that is to
say, shall be burnt in the Hand, by the Gaoler, in open
Court; and further be kept in Prison, for such time as
the Justices in their Discretion shall think fit; so as the
same do not exceed One Year's Imprisonment."
The said Amendment, being read a Second time, was
upon the Question put thereupon, agreed unto by the
Ordered, That Mr. Solicitor General do carry the Bill
to the Lords; and acquaint them, That this House hath
agreed to the said Amendment.
Commissioners of Accompts.
Then the Managers appointed went to the Conference:
And being returned;
Sir Joseph Tredenham reports, That they had attended
the said Conference: And that the Lord Rochester managed the Conference on the Part of the Lords; and
acquainted them, That the Lords had desired this Conference, for the Continuance of the good Correspondence
between the Two Houses: And that the Lords were not
satisfied with the Reasons given by this House touching
the Amendments to the Bill, intituled, An additional Act
for appointing and enabling Commissioners to examine,
take, and state the publick Accompts of the Kingdom:
And that they do insist on all their Amendments to
the Bill: And that, in answer to the Reasons given by
this House against the said Amendments, the Lords gave
the Reasons following; viz.
To the First and Second Reasons offered by the Commons, the Lords answer, That the Commissioners named
by the Commons having already made some Progress in
the stating the Accompts; the naming of some new ones
can be of no Prejudice to the perfecting that Work; the
Nature of taking and stating Accompts being such, that
new Men, being joined with others, may be very capable
of going on with the Remainder of that Work.
The Lords do agree, That, in the Act passed in the
Nineteenth of King Charles the Second, for taking Accompts, the Commissioners thereby constituted were
named by the Commons; and the Lords did agree to
it, both because they approved of the Number and
Quality of the Persons, and because, they being not
Members of the House of Commons, they might always
be sent for at the Pleasure of the Lords, to explain any
Matters relating to those Accompts: But the Lords
having now had Experience by the last Act, which constituted no Commissioners but only such as were of the
House of Commons, that their Lordships cannot have
those Commissioners at any time before them to answer
such Questions, or explain such Doubts as their Lordships may have Occasion to inquire into; or even to
intimate such Points as seem to have been omitted, either
in the Accompts, or the Observations made thereupon;
is one very great Reason, Why the Lords have found it
necessary to name such in this Bill, as their Lordships
may, from time to time, receive Informations from;
without which, their Lordships examining into the Accompts will prove defective and dilatory.
To the Third and Fourth Reasons their Lordships
reply, That they are unwilling to enter into a Dispute
with the Commons, What is the proper Work of either
House, in relation to the granting Supplies to the Crown,
or taking or examining the Accompts thereof: because
they would avoid any Controversies of that Kind with
the House of Commons, especially at this time; having
by Experience found, that such Debates have frequently
been attended with ill Consequences to the Publick: But
upon this Occasion, their Lordships conceive it is very
plain, That since this Bill provides, that the Accompts
shall be laid before the Lords, it must be likewise owned,
that it is the proper Work of this House to examine
them. And by no means can their Lordships acquiesce
in the Reason given by the House of Commons, That,
they being the Representatives of all the Commons, no
Commoner can be named but by them; because That
would, by the same Parity of Reason deprive their Lordships of the Power of assigning Counsel to any Man impeached by the House of Commons; which, in Cases of
Misdemeanor, they have always done: And, by the late
Bill for regulating Tryals, in Cases of Treasons, it was
agreed by both Houses, That Counsel should be allowed
in Cases of Treason, even upon Impeachments: Which
Counsel must have been assigned by the Lords, and out
Lastly, The House of Lords canot allow the Disposition, as well as Granting, of Money by Act of Parliament, to have been solely in the House of Commons; and
much less can their Lordships consent, That the Lords
have not always had a Right of naming any Persons to be
employed in the Publick Service by Act of Parliament,
and assigning them such Salary for their Pains out of the
Exchequer, as should be agreed on in that Act of Parliament: And, for these Reasons, their Lordships do insist
on all their Amendments to the said Bill.
And, after Consideration had of the said Report,
It was Resolved, That this House doth insist upon their
Disagreement with the Lords, in the Amendments to
the said Bill.
Resolved, That a free Conference be desired with the
Lords, upon the Subject Matter of the last Conference.
Ordered, That the Members who managed the said Conference, do meet this Afternoon at Four a Clock, in the
Speaker's Chamber; and prepare for the said Conference.
Ordered, That the Serjeant at Arms do go into Westminster Hall, and the Court of Requests, and to the several Bars; and summon the Members to attend the Service
of the House immediately.
Which he did do.
And being returned;
Supply Bill; Irish Forfeitures.
The House proceeded to take into Consideration the
Report, Yesterday, of the Amendments to the Bill for
vesting the Forfeited Estates in Ireland in their Majesties,
to be applied to the Use of the War.
And several of them were read a Second time, one
by one; and, upon the Question severally put thereupon,
were agreed unto by the House.
And the Question being put, That the House do agree
with the Committee in the Amendment, to leave out the
Clause, for vesting Estates Tail in their Majesties, as a
The House divided.
The Noes go forth.
Tellers for the Yeas:
Tellers for the Noes:
So it passed in the Negative.
Ordered, That the further Consideration of the said
Report be adjourned until Monday Morning next, at
Eleven of the Clock; and nothing to intervene.
Corresponding with their Majesties Enemies.
A Message from the Lords, by Mr. Justice Gregory
and Mr. Baron Powell;
Mr. Speaker, The Lords have passed a Bill, intituled,
An Act against corresponding with their Majesties Enemies: To which they desire the Concurrence of this
And then the Messengers withdrew.
Supply Bill; Poll Tax.
Resolved, That this House will, To-morrow Morning,
after the Committee of the whole House hath sat upon
the Bill for establishing an East India Company, resolve
itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider
further of the Bill for a Quarterly Poll.
Resolved, That the House will, upon Tuesday Morning
next, at Eleven of the Clock, resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of further Ways
to satisfy the Debts due to the Orphans of the City of
And then the House adjourned till To-morrow
Morning, Eight a Clock.