House of Lords Journal Volume 3
17 March 1624

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 17 March 1624', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 3: 1620-1628 (1767-1830), pp. 264-267. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=30379 Date accessed: 31 July 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 17 die Martii,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

p. Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.

p. Archiepus. Cant.
Archiepus. Eborum.
p. Epus. London.
p. Epus. Dunelm.
p. Epus. Winton.
Epus. Petriburg.
p. Epus. Hereforden.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Norwicen.
p. Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Glocestren.
Epus. Carlien.
p. Epus. Co. et Lich.
p. Epus. Bath. et W.
p. Epus. Bangor.
p. Epus. Elien.
Epus. Cicestren.
p. Epus. Oxon.
p. Epus. Cestren.
p. Epus. Landaven.
p. Epus. Sarum.
p. Epus. Exon.
p. Epus. Meneven.
p. Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Asaphen.
p. Epus. Lincoln, Ds. Custos Magni Sigilli.
Comes Midd. Magnus Thesaur. Angliæ.
p. Vicecomes Maundevill, Præs. Concilii Domini Regis.
p. Comes Wigorn, Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
p. Dux Buck. Magnus Admirallus Angliæ.
Marchio Winton.
p. Comes Oxon, Magnus Camer. Angliæ.
p. Comes Arundell et Surr. Comes Maresc. Angliæ.
p. Comes Cantabr. Senesc. Hospitii.
p. Comes Pembroc, Camerar. Hospitii.
Comes Northumbriæ.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Salop.
p. Comes Kanciæ.
Comes Derbiæ.
p. Comes Rutland.
Comes Cumbriæ.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bath.
p. Comes South'ton.
Comes Bedd.
Comes Hertford.
p. Comes Essex.
p. Comes Lincoln.
p. Comes Suffolciæ.
p. Comes Dorset.
p. Comes Sarum.
Comes Exon.
p. Comes Mountgomery.
p. Comes Bridgwater.
p. Comes Leicestriæ.
p. Comes Northton.
p. Comes Warwic.
p. Comes Devon.
Comes March.
Comes Holdernesse.
p. Comes Carlile.
p. Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bristol.
p. Comes Anglisey.
p. Vicecomes Mountague.
Vicecomes Wallingford.
Vicecomes Purbeck.
Vicecomes Maunsfeild.
p. Vicecomes Colchester.
p. Vicecomes Rochford.
p. Vicecomes Andever.
Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Zouch.
p. Ds. Willoughby.
p. Ds. Delaware.
p. Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Morley et M.
Ds. Dacres de Herst.
Ds. Stafford.
p. Ds. Scroope.
p. Ds. Duddeley.
p. Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Herbert de Sh.
p. Ds. Darcy de M.
Ds. Vaux.
Ds. Windsore.
p. Ds. Wentworth.
p. Ds. Mordant.
p. Ds. St. John de Ba.
p. Ds. Cromewell.
Ds. Evre.
p. Ds. Sheffeild.
p. Ds. Paget.
Ds. North.
p. Ds. St. John de Bl.
Ds. Howard de W.
Ds. Wootton.
p. Ds. Russell.
p. Ds. Grey de Groby.
p. Ds. Petre.
Ds. Danvers.
p. Ds. Spencer.
p. Ds. Say et Seale.
p. Ds. Denny.
p. Ds. Stanhope de H.
p. Ds. Carew.
Ds. Arundell de W.
Ds. Haughton.
Ds. Teynham.
Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
Ds. Noel.
p. Ds. Brooke.
p. Ds. Mountague.
p. Ds. Cary de Lep.
Ds. Kensington.
p. Ds. Grey de Werke.

Stewart, &c. qualify for Naturalization.

WALTER STEWART, Esquire (who exhibited his Bill to be Naturalized this Parliament), did take the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance, according to the Statute.

Stewart, Maxwell, Carr, and Levingston & Naturalization.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Naturalizing of Sir Frauncis Stewart, Knight, Walter Stewart, James Maxwell, William Carr, and James Levingston, Esquires.

And the Lords being satisfied, that they had received the Communion according to the Statute; the Bill was committed unto the

E. of Warwick.
L. Bp. of Bangor.
L. Spencer.
L. Carew.

Mr. Serjeant Crooke to attend the Lords.

To meet presently; and so they did.

Being returned, the Earl of Warwick reported the Bill fit to pass, without any Amendment.

Whereupon it is Ordered, That the same be ingrossed accordingly.

The King revised His Answer to the Address of both Houses.

The Duke of Buck. signified to the House, That the King's Majesty had perused the Draught of His Answer to the Committees of both Houses on Sunday last, the 14th of this March at Whitehall; and had approved thereof, with some Amendments, but no Alteration at all.

Message sent to the Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Davis and Mr. Attorney General, for a Conference between the former Committees of both Houses, concerning the same, to be presently in the Painted Chamber.

The Clerk read this Answer.

And the Committee being returned from the Conference, the Lord President reported the Commons Approbation thereof.

Whereupon Mr. Attorney General read the same again, in hæc verba:

"My Lords and Gentlemen all,

The Answer.

"I have nothing to say to the Preamble of my Lord of Cant. but that he intimated something in it which I never spoke. For where he said, that I have shewed Myself sensible of the Insincerity of those with whom I have had lately to deal, and of the Indignity offered to My Children; in this ye must give Me leave to tell you, that I have not yet exprest Myself to be either sensible or insensible of their good or bad Dealing.

"Buckingham made a Relation to you, by My Commandment, which you are to judge upon; but I never yet delivered My Mind upon it. When Jupiter speaks, He uses to join his Thunder to it; and a King should not speak, except He maintain it by Action.

"As for the Matter of your Declaration unto My Demand, which you have couched in that Paper now read unto Me, I consess it is without Example, that any King hath had so large an Offer; and, with God's Favour, I need fear nothing in this World, having so much the Hearts of My People; for your large Offer of Assistance, I hold it to be more than Millions of Subsidies, and (indeed) it is an ample Reward for that Trust and Freedom which I have used with you.

"But, My Lords and Gentlemen all, ye must give Me Leave, on the other Side, to consider the Possibility of the Action; for in this Case I must do as a Man that makes a Fortification, which must have Outworks and Inworks; so I must not only deal with My own People, but with My Neighbours and Allies, to assist Me in so great a Business as the Recovery of the Palatinate.

"And, in this Case, it is not sufficient to have the Hearts of My Subjects, without the Help of My Neighbours and Allies; and, except particular Means be set down, it will neither be a Bridle to the Adversaries of that Cause, nor a Comfort to my Friends, who will join with Me: General Words will not carry it; therefore I must resort to particular Means, and follow the Counsel of our Saviour Christ in the Gospel; before I begin a War, to see how I can maintain it, as I told you in my former Answer. God knows, it is a longsome Work; yet I desire with Moses (as I said before) to see the Land of Promise, though I should not live 'till it be really recovered. But, unless particular Means be discovered, it is little to the Point; therefore, seeing you give Me such fair general Promises, I will deal freely with you, and tell you plainly what I think will do the Turn; but whether it be by Subsidies only, or other Means that may be equivalent, is all one to Me; for being done in Parliament, is done by a Parliamentary Way.

"I would desire, that ye would be pleased to bestow upon this great Business, Five Subsidies, and Two Fifteenths to every Subsidy. And for My own Necessities, My crying Debts are so heavy, that no Man can bear them with a greater Grief of Heart and Sting of Conscience, than I have done and do; and I, now growing old, would be glad to see a Means for the satisfying of My Debts before I go out of the World; and for this End, I desire you would give Me One Subsidy and Two Fifteenths Yearly until My Debts be paid."

Here the Prince his Highness, taking Notice of an Objection made, that this might seem contradictory to that which his Highness had told the Committees of both Houses, That the King's Majesty would ask nothing for His own particular, 'till the War were provided for; the Prince said, That the Duke of Buck. in his Absence, had moved this Doubt to the King. Whereupon the Duke affirmed, That, speaking with the King about it, His Majesty was pleased to say, "That, if we would add One Subsidy and Two Fifteenths, to make it up Six Subsidies and Twelve Fifteenths for the War, He was well content to quit what He had asked for His own Necessities; but His Majesty said in this, for the Earnestness He hath for the well-going of this great Business, it should not make them the colder for giving Him so mean a Supply for His so great and urgent Necessities."

"If this may be done, I am resolved to follow your Advice; for I never would have asked your Advice to reject it, and so put a Scorn upon you, as I told you in My former Answer.

"For the levying of these Subsidies and Fifteenths, I would have you consider how to clear these Two Difficulties, that seem to fight one against another. If you levy them suddenly, it may be heavy for the People; if ye stay too long, it will not serve the Turn. But to reconcile these Two Straits, I leave it to your wise Considerations. For if, upon the one Part, ye should be too hasty in levying of it, it might prove an unsupportable Burthen to My People, whereof I should be very sorry; and, upon the other Side, if it come in too slowly, the Business would suffer, and be miscarried in the lingering. And since I likewise leave it to yourselves to receive the Money, and expend it by your own Committees of both Houses, ye may be the more secure.

"I told you before, that I had, in this great Business, to look to My Conscience and Mine Honour, as well as to the Means. For the Means, I must have it from you."

King requires the Advice of Parliament for the Manner of declaring War with Spain.

Here the Prince said, he had spoken with his Father, to know of Him, whether He were satisfied, in Honour and in Conscience, that He might in this Case undertake a War; and that His Majesty answered, "He was already satisfied and resolved therein; but, for the Manner of publishing it, He would take our Advices."

The King's Reasons assigned for the Expressions He used.

The Duke of Buck, told us, the Reason why His Majesty used those Words was, That, having formerly spoken of His Conscience and Honour, if He should now have left them out, it might have been thought, that only Money had drawn Him to it. But the King said, "He was already satisfied and resolved, yet would have our Advices for the declaring of it."

"My Conscience and Mine Honour is Mine own, of which I have thought, and do think daily, and how I shall be able to do therein as a King ought to do. In this Point, I am already resolved in a great Part; but, if any Scruple shall remain with Me, I will acquaint you with them, and not only seek but follow your Advice.

"I told you before, that this was the Way to make Me in Love with Parliaments, and to shew my Inclination to continue them; still My Resolution is, to make this a Session, with the passing of as many good Laws as in convenient Time may be prepared; and at Michaelmas, or within few Days after, to have a new Session, and another in the Spring; and in the mean Time you may go down, and acquaint yourselves with the Grievances of My People; and you shall see My Care to make good Laws, and to reform Abuses, that so My Subjects may find the good Fruits of Parliaments, and rejoice in them.

"And I protest, as I have asked your Advice in these Points (which I needed not to have done), so I will never enter into any Agreement, or Treaty of Composition, for Satisfaction or Peace, which is the End of War (else it is unjust and unchristian), without your Advice."

Affaring Lands to Lord Mountague for certain Uses.

The Lord Archbishop of Cant. reported the Lord Viscount Mountagues Bill as fit to pass, but with many Amendments.

And that the Committee heard the Allegations of Sir Francis Englefeild (according to his Petition) concerning the same; which proved but vain; and that thereupon the said Sir Frauncis said, he would submit himself unto the Bill.

Ditto.

Hodie 1a et 2a vice lectæ sunt, the said Amendments; and the Bill Ordered to be ingrossed accordingly.

Informations upon Intrusion.

The Two Lord Chief Justices, and the Lord Chief Baron, are added to the Attendants on the Bill of Informations upon Intrusion, &c.

And the Committees are to meet To-morrow, at Eight, in the Painted Chamber.

The Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench is added to the Attendants on the Bill for the Limitation of Autions, &c.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, decimum octavum diem instantis Mortii, hora 9a, Dominis sic decernentibus.