DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 12 die Aprilis,
(fn. *) tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:
p. Carolus Princeps Walliæ, etc.
p. Archiepus. Cant.
p. Epus. London.
p. Epus. Dunelm.
p. Epus. Winton.
p. Epus. Roffen.
p. Epus. Co. et Lich.
p. Epus. Bath. et W.
p. Epus. Bangor.
p. Epus. Elien.
p. Epus. Oxon.
p. Epus. Landaven.
p. Epus. Sarum.
p. Epus. Exon.
p. Epus. Meneven.
p. Epus. Bristol.
p. Epus. Asaphen.
|p. Epus. Lincoln, Ds. Custos Mag. Sigilli.
p. Comes Midd. Mag. Thes. Angliæ.
p. Vicecomes Maundevill, Præs. Conc. Domini Regis.
p. Comes Wigorn. Ds. Custos Privati Sigilli.
p. Dux Buck. Mag. Adm. Angliæ.
Comes Oxon. Mag. Camer. Angliæ.
Comes Arundell et Surr. Comes Marescallus Angliæ.
p. Comes Cantabr. Sen. Hospitii.
p. Comes Pembroc, Camer. Hospitii.
p. Comes Kanciæ.
p. Comes Rutland.
p. Comes South'ton.
p. Comes Essex.
p. Comes Lincoln.
p. Comes Sarum.
p. Comes Exon.
p. Comes Mountgomery.
p. Comes Bridgwater.
p. Comes North'ton.
p. Comes Devon.
p. Comes Carlile.
p. Comes Denbigh.
p. Comes Anglisey.
p. Vicecomes Maunsfeild.
p. Vicecomes Rochford.
p. Vicecomes Andever.
p. Ds. Willoughby.
p. Ds. Delawarr.
p. Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Morley et Mont.
Ds. Dacres de Her.
p. Ds. Scroope.
p. Ds. Duddeley.
p. Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Herbert de Sh.
p. Ds. Darcy de Men.
p. Ds. Wentworth.
p. Ds. Mordant.
p. Ds. St. John de Bas.
p. Ds. Cromewell.
p. Ds. Sheffeild.
p. Ds. Paget.
p. Ds. North.
p. Ds.St. John de (fn. *) Bl.
p. Ds. Howard de W.
p. Ds. Gray de Groby.
p. Ds. Danvers.
p. Ds. Spencer.
p. Ds. Say et Seale.
p. Ds. Denny.
p. Ds. Stanhope de H.
p. Ds. Carew.
Ds. Arundell de W.
p. Ds. Haughton.
Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
p. Ds. Brooke.
p. Ds. Mountague.
p. Ds. Cary de Lep.
p. Ds. Grey de W.
MESSAGE from the House of Commons, by Mr.
Secretary Calverte and others: That whereas this Afternoon was appointed by their Lordships for a Conference, touching the Bill of Monopolies; there intervening
this Occasion, that a Lord of this House desiring to be
heard by his Counsel in their House this Afternoon, they
have yielded unto it; and therefore they humbly desire
to be excused from that Conference; and what other
Time soever their Lordships shall appoint for the same,
they will attend.
The Messenger also recommended unto their Lordships the Bill touching Concealments, for the same Causes that the House of Commons did formerly commend
Answered: That the Lords have appointed the Conference touching Monopolies to be To-morrow, at Two
in the Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber.
That their Lordships have taken the Bill of Concealments into their serious Considerations, and have given it
One Reading, and will give it another with all convenient Speed.
A Lord accused in H. C.
The House was moved to consider, That it might
trench deep into their Privileges, for a Lord of this House
to answer an Accusation in the House of Commons, either by his Counsel, or by sending his Answer in Writing.
Lord Treasurer accused by H. C.
This was moved, in respect that the Lord Treasurer
had desired to be heard before the Commons this Day
by his Counsel.
And it appeared unto their Lordships, That the House
of Commons were very respectful of the Privileges of
this House, and did not require any Answer from the
Lord Treasurer unto the Complaints exhibited to them
concerning his Lordship; but that some of their House
moving for a Copy of the said Complaints to be sent
unto the Lord Treasurer, they Ordered, That his Lordship might have Copies thereof, if he pleased, and Liberty to answer them also if he pleased.
Leave to answer.
Whereupon their Lordships also, at the humble Request of the Lord Treasurer, gave him Leave to send
his Answer to the said Complaints unto the Commons,
if he pleased.
Lords accused in H. C. not to answer without Licence.
And it is Ordered, That no Lord of this House
may, without Licence of the House, answer any Complaint in the House of Commons, neither in Person nor
by his Counsel.
The Lord Archbishop of Cant. reported to the
House, That a Committee being appointed to consider
of the Store of Munitions, &c. somewhat happened in
the Consideration thereof, which touched the Lord Treasurer in his Honour; whereupon his Lordship desired,
that the utmost Truth thereof might be inquired and
examined; and accordingly Witnesses have been sworn
here, and a Sub-committee appointed to take their
Examinations; which being done, the Lords of the Subcommittee have reported the same unto those of the
Committee; the which, being in Writing, his Grace delivered to be read.
Before this Report was read, the Lord Keeper signified, That he had received a Petition from Sir Thomas
Dallyson, delivered unto him by a Member of this
House, who desires that it may be read before the said
Which Petition was read, in bæc Verba: videlicet,
Dallyson's Petition against Lord Treasurer.
"To the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and
Temporal assembled in the High Court of Parliament.
"The humble Petition of Sir Thomas Dallyson, Son of
Sir Roger Dallison, Knight and Baronet, deceased.
"Whereas there was an Examination, before a Committee of your Honours, concerning the Lands of
his said Father, compounded for by the Lord Treasurer, whereupon there is an Account given to your
Lordships by one Mayle, a Scrivener, on his Lordship's Behalf, of Twenty-six Thousand Pounds, or
thereabouts, to be given by the said Lord Treasurer
for the same Land, as the said Mayle reporteth:
"Now for that this Petitioner and his Mother were
forced out of their Estate therein by his Lordship, for
a very small Matter, by Colour of His Majesty's Extent; and is able to make it appear to your Honours
that there hath not been much above Half the said
Sum of Twenty-six Thousand Pounds really, either in
Money or Money's-worth, given for the same by his
Lordship; and for that the said Lands are of a far
greater Value; and this Petitioner ought, in all Equity (as he conceiveth), to have the Benefit of compounding his Father's Debts, and the Benefit that
should accrue by the Surplusage of the Estate:
"He most humbly desireth your Honours to stay the
Report, and grant your Petitioner a Copy of the same
Account, before the same pass from the Lords of the
Committee; and that your Petitioner may be admitted to make such just Exceptions thereunto, as to the
Honourable Lords of the Committee shall seem reasonable.
"And he shall ever pray for your Honours.
Ld. Treasurer may be present at the Report.
It was moved also, Whether, by the Orders of this
House, the Lord Treasurer may be present when this
Report is read, for that the same concerns his Honour.
And Agreed, That his Lordship may be present at
the first Reading thereof, but not when the same shall
be debated or handled by the House.
Mr. Attorney read the Report, in bæc verba:
Report from the Committee for Munitions, &c.
"The State of the Business referred to the Sub-committee for Munition.
"28 May, 6° Jac. A Privy Seal was directed to
the Lord Treasurer, and Under Treasurer of the Exchequer, for the Time being, for the issuing of such
Sums of Money, not exceeding Six Thousand Pounds
per Annum, as by Quarter Books should appear to be
due to the Office of Ordnance, for Wages or Provisions.
"This Allowance was duly paid until the First of
April 1614; but then, or shortly after, by the Default of Sir Roger Dalyson, and of the Officers of the
Exchequer, sundry Payments were unorderly made,
whereby the Office was unfurnished; and Dalison,
who had received those Moneys and not employed
them as he ought, became indebted in great Arrears
unto His Majesty:
"Upon Complaint whereof, in November 1617, His
Majesty made a Reference to divers of the Lords of
the Council, who, in December 1617, returned under
their Hands a Proportion of Supply, estimated at
Fifty-four Thousand and Seventy-eight Pounds, Eight
Shillings, and Eight Pence.
"In February 1619, His Majesty's Commission was
awarded to the Commissioners for the Navy, whereof
the now Lord Treasurer was one of the chief, to
survey the Office of Ordnance; and they, in July
1620, made a Return thereby, desiring their Opinions
how the Magazines might be furnished with a present Supply of Thirteen Thousand Six Hundred and
Forty Pounds, Fourteen Shillings, and Two Pence;
how the ordinary Allowance of Six Thousand Pounds
per Annum might be reduced to Three Thousand; and
how, by cutting off many unnecessary Charges, and
other Means, His Majesty might save yearly near Ten
Thousand Pounds. And these Propositions, made by
them in Michaelmas Term 1620, received Allowance
from the Lords, and at last from His Majesty himself.
"In December 1620, the Lord Maundevill became
Treasurer; and, in May 1621, a Privy Seal was drawn
by the Officers of the Ordnance, for settling of the
said Three Thousand Pounds yearly, and for Payment of the said Thirteen Thousand Six Hundred
and Forty Pounds, Fourteen Shillings and Two
Pence; but the same, being considered of by the
Commissioners of the Navy, was rejected, because
it swerved from their Propositions; and so, the
Lord Maundevill leaving the Treasurership about Michaelmas next 1621, nothing was done in this Time.
"In October 1621, the Earl of Midd. became Lord
Treasurer; and having continued that Place Two
Years and Six Months, in all that Time none of the
Three Establishments; videlicet, That of 6° Jac. by
the dormant Privy Seal; that of 1617, by the Lords;
nor that of the Commissioners of the Navy, in 1620;
have been observed, whereas if that of the Commissioners of the Navy, being the least chargeable to His
Majesty, and in which the Lord Treasurer himself
was a principal Agent, had been observed; it is conceived, that the Stores had been in much better Case,
and a Course had therein been settled to have retrenched a needless Charge of near Ten Thousand
Pounds per Annum, as aforesaid.
"And whereas, in April 1621, a Contract was made
with Mr. Evelyn, to serve His Majesty yearly with
Eighty Lasts of Powder, at Seven Pence the Pound;
the Want of Payment of about Five Hundred Pounds
a Month hath deprived His Majesty of the Benefit of
that Contract, which, for Twenty Months of the Time
since that Contract, hath been forborne, for Want of
Payment; which Twenty Months Proportion, if it had
been served in, there would have been in Store at
this present Two Hundred Sixty and odd Lasts
of Powder, besides Sixty Lasts of Salt-petre, which
would have made Eighty Lasts of Powder more; but,
by the Want of due Payment, not only the Store is
now unfurnished of so considerable a Proportion, but
His Majesty, as is conceived, further hath lost the Benefit of Three Pence in every Pound of Eighty Lasts
which should be sold to the Subject, amounting to
Four Thousand and Fifty Pounds, or thereabouts.
"And whereas it was intimated that the Lord Treasurer hath made other Payments, less importing the
Public, to the said Office of Ordnance, for old Arrears,
which have a Dependancy upon another Point referred
to the Sub-committees, touching the Lands and Debts
of Sir Roger Dalyson; it appears that, 28° Julii 1621,
which was about Two Months before the Earl of Midd.
became Treasurer, he made an Agreement with the
Officers of the Ordnance, for the buying their Extent
and Interest in the Lands of Sir Roger Dalison and Sir
Thomas Mounson, which they had by Assignment from
His Majesty for a Debt of Thirteen Thousand and
Sixty-two Pounds; and thereby his Lordship did
agree, so soon as conveniently he might, to do his best
Endeavour to procure from His Majesty a certain
Assignment and Order for the Payment of the Sum
of Eight Thousand Pounds, to the Use of the Servants and Creditors of the Office of Ordnance, before
the last Day of November next, for and towards the
Payment and Clearing of all such Sums of Money, as,
by the Pay-books of the said Office, should appear
to be due unto them, over and above the said Sum
of Thirteen Thousand and Sixty-Two Pounds; and
his Lordship was, before the same last of November,
to pay them One Thousand and Sixty Two Pounds;
and at the Annunciation 1623, Five Hundred Pounds;
and after, Half-yearly, Five Hundred Pounds till the
Thirteen Thousand and Sixty-two Pounds were
paid: But his Lordship, before the prefixed last of
November, becoming Lord Treasurer, did not procure any such Order, or Assignment, from His Majesty; but, by Warrant of the first-mentioned dormant Privy Seal of 6° Jac. did, in the first Michaelmas
Term he became Treasurer, and in the Two Terms
of Easter and Michaelmas following, being all within
little more than a Year after he became Treasurer,
pay to them Nine Thousand One Hundred and
Thirty-one Pounds of Arrears due to the Office; and
hath, at other Times since, paid to them other Sums,
which make the former Payments Nineteen Thousand
and Thirty-four Pounds, Eight Shillings, and Eleven
Pence; whereof was paid, since the Beginning of this
Parliament, Two Thousand Four Hundred and
Eighty Pounds, Eleven Shillings, and Two Pence;
and, touching the Payments which, by the aforesaid
Agreement, his Lordship was to make unto them of
his own Money, it appeareth, that, upon a Second
Agreement, those Payments were discharged, and, in
Lieu thereof, his Lordship assigned to them his Part
in the Petty Farms of the Wines and Currants; they
estimated to be worth, for the Two first Years One
Thousand Pounds per Annum, and for Seven Years
after Fourteen Hundred Pounds per Annum; howbeit,
the first Two Years have yielded but Fourteen Hundred and odd Pounds: It also appeareth that, about
the same Time when he made the said Agreement
with the Officers, he bargained with Sir Thomas Munson
for his Estate in Dalison's Lands, for which he agreed
to give Three Thousand Pounds in Money, the making of Six Baronets, and some fit Suit from His Majesty when Sir Thomas could find it, which Three
Thousand Pounds was duly paid by his Lordship. The
Baronets were not procured; but, in Lieu thereof, his
Lordship gave Way to a Suit, which Sir Thomas made
to His Majesty, for the Benefit of compounding with
the Copyholders of Wakesyld, for reducing their Fines
to Certainty, which his Lordship did estimate at Two
Thousand Pounds; and promised him further Recompence; yet Sir Thomas Mounson affirms he had neither Benefit thereby nor further Recompence.
"In this Bargain, nevertheless, there are some Things
considerable for the Lord Treasurer, especially Two:
First, that, by this Bargain, His Majesty is clearly
freed of all future Demands from the Officers of the
Ordnance, concerning the Debt of Thirteen Thousand and Sixty-two Pounds, owing by Dalison; which
His Majesty, upon the assigning those Extents, had covenanted to satisfy, in case the Incumbrances should
hinder them of Satisfaction; and this appeareth to be
true: Secondly, some Intimation hath been, that this
Bargain was no Bargain of Advantage; but of Loss,
to the Lord Treasurer, and therefore not probable
that he would have undertaken (fn. *) it but for His Majesty's
Service and the Good of the Office; and touching
this Point, it appears, by the Testimony of Sir Thomas
Dalison, that, before the Troubles of his Father, the
Lands and Leases, being of about Sixty Years to
come, bought by the Lord Treasurer, were rented at
Fifteen Hundred Pounds per Annum, or thereabouts;
whereof the Lease Lands are about Three Hundred
Pounds per Annum; and that, besides the Recompence
given to the Officers of the Ordnance and Sir Thomas
Mounson, there is allowed to him and his Mother, for
clearing their Interests, Two Hundred Pounds per
Annum for their Lives; but Sir Arthur Ingram offereth
to lett the whole for Forty or Fifty Years, or any
other reasonable Time, at Eleven Hundred Pounds
by the Year; and it appears, by the Testimony of
him and Mr. Mayle, that the Lands were incumbered
with an Annuity of Two Hundred Pounds per Annum
to Mrs. Bedingfyld, for Life, for which and the Arrears about Twelve Hundred Pounds hath been
given, by Way of Composition; and with One Hundred and Forty Pounds to Mr. Smith for Life, for
which and the Arrears hath been given, by Way of
Composition, about the Value of Eight Hundred
Pounds; and with an Assurance of Part to Sir Richard Smyth and Sir John Davy, for which is to be
given Three Thousand Pounds; besides many other
Incumbrances not yet brought in; but the Certainty
thereof appears not, nor that any of them of any considerable Value are precedent to Sir Roger Dalison's
L. Treasurer's Answer.
This Report being read; the Lord Treasurer remembred their Lordships of the Imputation laid on his Lordship by Sir Robert Pye, touching the Extent of Sir
Roger Dallyson's Lands; and that therein he had desired
Witnesses to be sworn and examined; and he hopes he
hath fully satisfied their Lordships in that Cause. But,
as for any other Matter, touching the Ordnances and
Munitions, &c. they never came into his Thoughts as
yet what Answer to make; wherefore he desired he might
have a Copy thereof in Writing, with Liberty to examine his Witnesses; and he will answer the same fully
He also desired, that his Actions may not be examined by Pieces, but totally and together; and then he
doubted not, but that his Care touching the Store for
Munitions, &c. will appear to be such that their Lordships will clear his Honour therein; and this being said,
his Lordship departed out of the House, whilst the
Matter reported was in Debate.
Mr. Attorney read the Report again; and it was
Agreed, That the Lord President, who had shewed unto
the House what Points or Heads were observable in the
same concerning the Lord Treasurer, shall be added to
the former Sub-committee touching the Munitions;
and Mr. Attorney General is added to the Attendants.
Charge against the Lord Treasurer to be drawn up.
And they are to draw up the Heads of the Charge
against the Lord Treasurer out of the Brief and the Examinations reported by the Committee this Morning.
To meet To-morrow, at Nine, in the Little Committee Chamber.
The Names of the Lords of this Sub-committee: videlicet,
L. Archbp. of Cant.
L. Bp. of Co. et Lich.
|Mr. Serjeant Crewe;
Mr. Attorney General,
Mr. Serjeant Crooke
|To attend the Lords.,
The Lord Archbishop of Cant. moved the House,
That Sir Thomas Dallison might have a Copy of so much
of this Report (fn. *) as concerns him.
Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, 13m instantis Aprilis, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.