House of Lords Journal Volume 3
14 May 1628

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 3: 14 May 1628', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 3: 1620-1628 (1767-1830), pp. 793-796. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=30591 Date accessed: 22 August 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 14 die Maii,

Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Archiepus. Cant.
Archiepus. Eborum.
Epus. London.
Epus. Dunelm.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Petriburgen.
Epus. Hereforden.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Norwicen.
Epus. Roffen.
Epus. Co. et Lich.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Cicestren.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Cestren.
Epus. Meneven.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Bath. et W.
Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Asaphen.
Epus. Gloucestren.
Epus. Carliol.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. Landaven.
Ds. Coventrey, Ds. Custos Mag. Sigilli.
Comes Marleborough, Magnus Thesaur. Angliæ.
Comes Manchester, Præs. Concilii Domini Regis.
Dux Buckingham, Magnus Admirall. Angliæ.
Marchio Winton.
Comes Lindsey, Mag. Camerar. Angliæ.
Comes Arundell et Surr. Comes Maresc. Angliæ.
Comes Pembroc, Senesc. Hospitii.
Comes Mountgomery, Camerar. Hospitii.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Northumbriæ.
Comes Salop.
Comes Kantii.
Comes Derbiæ.
Comes Wigorn.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Cumbriæ.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bath.
Comes South'ton.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Hertford.
Comes Essex.
Comes Lincoln.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Suffolciæ.
Comes Dorsett.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Exon.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes Leicestriæ.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Warwic.
Comes Devon.
Comes Cantabr.
Comes Carlile.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bristol.
Comes Angles.
Comes Holland.
Comes Clare.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Westmerland.
Comes Banbury.
Comes Berk.
Comes Cleveland.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Danby.
Comes Tottnes.
Comes Monmouth.
Comes Norwich.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Newcastle.
Comes Dover.
Comes Petriburgh.
Comes Standford.
Vicecomes Mountague.
Vicecomes Purbeck.
Vicecomes Tunbridge.
Vicecomes Say et Seale.
Vicecomes Wimbleton.
Vicecomes Savage.
Vicecomes Conway.
Vicecomes Newarck.
Vicecomes Bayninge.
Vicecomes Campden.
Ds. Clifford.
Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Percy.
Ds. Strange.
Ds. Delawarr.
Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Dudley.
Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Darcy.
Ds. Vaux.
Ds. Windsore.
Ds. St. John de Bas.
Ds. Cromwell.
Ds. Evre.
Ds. Pagett.
Ds. North.
Ds. Compton.
Ds. Wootton.
Ds. Petre.
Ds. Spencer.
Ds. Stanhope de H.
Ds. Arundell.
Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
Ds. Noel.
Ds. Kymbolton.
Ds. Newnham.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Deyncourt.
Ds. Ley.
Ds. Robarts.
Ds. Conway.
Ds. Vere.
Ds. Tregoze.
Ds. Carleton.
Ds. Tufton.
Ds. Craven.
Ds. Mountioy.
Ds. Fawconbridge.
Ds. Lovelace.
Ds. Pawlett.
Ds. Harvy.
Ds. Brudnell.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Weston.
Ds. Goringe.
Ds. Mohun.

E. of Danby excused.

EARL of Danby excused.

Baud's Fees to be moderated.

Upon reading the Petition of Ferdinando Baud, concerning the Order 8 Maii, for the Serjeant to bring him before the Lords, to answer his Contempt; and upon reading a former Order of 3 Maii; their Lordships Ordered, That Sir Edward Salter shall moderate the Serjeant's Charges in sending for the said Baud, and no other Fees to be paid.

Lane versus Baud.

The Day of Hearing between Robert Lane and the said Ferdinando Baud is appointed on Tuesday next, the 20th of this instant May, at Nine in the Morning, here at the Bar.

Reformation of Abuses on the Sabbath.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the further Reformation of sundry Abuses committed on the Lord'sday, commonly called Sunday.

Committed unto the

L. Archbp. of Cant.
E. of Huntingdon.
E. of Bedford.
E. of Clare.
L. Viscount Say et S.
L. Bp. of Co. et Lich.
L. Bp. of Lincoln.
L. Bp. of Bath. & W.
L. North.
L. Spencer.
L. Noel.
L. Mountague.
L. Weston.
Mr. Attorney General, To attend the Lords.
Mr. Serjeant Ayloffe,

To meet this Afternoon, at Four, in the Little Committee Chamber.

Petition of Right.

Whereas the Lords had agreed to move the Commons to reduce their Petition, touching the Point of Imprisonment, within the Compass of that which His Majesty hath offered by His Gracious Letter (prout per le Vote 12mo Maii post meridiem);

And whereas the House hath prayed a Conference with the House of Commons to that Purpose; their Lordships were moved to agree upon some Reasons whereon to move the said Commons; and, after some Debate thereof in the House, these Lords were appointed to draw up the same: videlicet,

Committee for drawing up Reasons to induce the H. C. to amend this Petition.

L. Archbp. of Cant.
L. Keeper.
L. President.
L. Admiral.
E. Marshal.
L. Steward.
E. of Bedford.
E. of Bristol.
L. Viscount Say et S.
L. Bp. of Norwich.
L. Bp. of Lincoln.
L. Pagett.
L. Weston.

The House was adjourned, during Pleasure, that the said Committee might withdraw, to set down the said Reasons.

Message from the Commons, for a Conference concerning it.

The said Committee being returned, and the House resumed; a Message came from the Commons, by Mr. Secretary Cooke and others: That the Commons are now ready to attend the Conference required Yesterday, at such Time and Place as their Lordships shall appoint.

Answer.

Unto which it was answered: That their Lordships have appointed Two post meridiem, in the Painted Chamber, for the said Conference; and their Lordships desired the House of Commons to sit this Afternoon, as their Lordships will do; for that there may be Occasion for either House to resort to their House again, and return to the Conference, for expediting of this Business.

The Lord Keeper delivered to the Lords briefly what the Committee had agreed should be delivered to the Commons at this Conference.

(Vide the Report of this Conference post meridiem.)

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in pomeridianum hujus diei, hora secunda, Dominis sic decernentibus.

DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 14 Maii, in pomeridiano, Domini tam Spirituales quam Temporales, quorum nomina subscribuntur, præsentes fuerunt:

Archiepus. Cant.
Archiepus. Eborum.
Epus. London.
Epus. Dunelm.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Petriburgen.
Epus. Hereforden.
Epus. Wigorn.
Epus. Norwicen.
Epus. Rossen.
Epus. Co. et Lich.
Epus. Bangor.
Epus. Cicestren.
Epus. Oxon.
Epus. Cestren.
Epus. Meneven.
Epus. Lincoln.
Epus. Sarum.
Epus. Bath. et W.
Epus. Bristol.
Epus. Asaphen.
Epus. Gloucestren.
Epus. Carlil.
Epus. Exon.
Epus. Landaven.
Ds. Coventrey, Ds. Custos Mag. Sigilli.
Comes Marleborough, Mag. Thesaur. Angliæ.
Comes Manchester, Præs. Concilii Domini Regis.
Dux Buckingham, Mag. Admirall. Angliæ.
Marchio Winton.
Comes Lindsey, Mag. Camerar. Angliæ.
Comes Arundell et Surr. Comes Maresc. Angliæ.
Comes Pembroc, Senescall. Hospitii.
Comes Mountgomery. Camerar. Hospitii.
Comes Oxon.
Comes Northumbriæ.
Comes Salop.
Comes Kantii.
Comes Derbiæ.
Comes Wigorn.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Cumbriæ.
Comes Sussex.
Comes Huntingdon.
Comes Bath.
Comes South'ton.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Hertford.
Comes Essex.
Comes Lincoln.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Suffolciæ.
Comes Dorsett.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Exon.
Comes Bridgewater.
Comes Leicestriæ.
Comes North'ton.
Comes Warwic.
Comes Devon.
Comes Cantabr.
Comes Carlile.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bristol.
Comes Angles.
Comes Holland.
Comes Clare.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Westmerland.
Comes Banbury.
Comes Berk.
Comes Cleveland.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Danby.
Comes Tottnes.
Comes Monmouth.
Comes Norwich.
Comes Rivers.
Comes Sunderland.
Comes Newcastle.
Comes Dover.
Comes Petriburgh.
Comes Standford.
Vicecomes Mountague.
Vicecomes Purbeck.
Vicecomes Tunbridge.
Vicecomes Say et S.
Vicecomes Wimbleton.
Vicecomes Savage.
Vicecomes Conway.
Vicecomes Newark.
Vicecomes Bayninge.
Vicecomes Campden.
Ds. Clifford.
Ds. Abergavenny.
Ds. Audley.
Ds. Percy.
Ds. Strange.
Ds. Delawarr.
Ds. Berkley.
Ds. Morley.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Dudley.
Ds. Stourton.
Ds. Darcy.
Ds. Vaux.
Ds. Windsore.
Ds. St. John de Bas.
Ds. Cromwell.
Ds. Evre.
Ds. Pagett.
Ds. North.
Ds. Compton.
Ds. Wootton.
Ds. Petre.
Ds. Stanhope de H.
Ds. Arundell.
Ds. Stanhope de Sh.
Ds. Noel.
Ds. Kymbolton.
Ds. Newnham.
Ds. Brooke.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Deyncourt.
Ds. Ley.
Ds. Robarts.
Ds. Conway.
Ds. Vere.
Ds. Tregoze.
Ds. Carleton.
Ds. Tuston.
Ds. Craven.
Ds. Mountioy.
Ds. Fawconbridge.
Ds. Lovelace.
Ds. Pawlett.
Ds. Harvy.
Ds. Brudnell.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Weston.
Ds. Goringe.
Ds. Mohun.

THE House being adjourned ad Libitum, the Lords went to the Conference.

Their Lordships being returned, and the House resumed; the Lord Keeper reported the Effect of the said Conference: videlicet,

Report of the Conference, concerning the Petition of Right.

"First, His Lordship repeated the Heads of what he spake (according to the Directions of the House this Morning) in the Entrance of the said Conference, on this Manner: That, at the last Meeting, the Lords made to the Commons a Proposition of some Alterations to be made in the Petition; and doubt not but the Commons have considered of them, and come prepared to confer.

"That, at the same Time, the Commons were made acquainted with His Majesty's Letter, and had a Copy delivered them to consider of, as the Lords also promised to do.

"That the Lords have done accordingly, and taken into their Thoughts, First, the Propositions or Tenets of the Commons concerning the Subjects Liberty; Secondly, that Part of the Petition which concerns it; and Lastly, His Majesty's Letter: That, upon all these, they have not proceeded to any Resolution exclusive or conclusive, not to exclude the Right or Liberty of the Subject, nor the Propositions or Petition concerning the same, nor yet to exclude the Prerogative or Right of the King, nor to conclude themselves from more mature Resolutions.

"But, upon Consideration of the Letter, they find Gracious Intentions in the King, and divers Royal and good Offers touching the Liberty and Freedom of the People.

"That they have considered of the present Affairs; that our Coast is infested by Enemies, and likely to be more, if there be not present Preparations against them.

"That the State of the Reformed Religion Abroad is miserable and distressed, and expects and depends on the Success of this Parliament; and therefore their Lordships with such a Course to be taken as may best beget a right Understanding between the King and His People: And therefore they have thought fit the Commons be moved, That the Petition concerning that Point, for this Time and Session, be reduced into such a Form as may be most agreeable to that which by this Letter we may expect to have from the King."

The Lord Keeper further reported, "That, he having said thus much, Sir Edward Cooke (one of the Commons House) answered, and expressed their great Joy for that the Lords held so good Correspondency with them, which they would endeavour to continue; and proceeded to speak to their Petition, and of their Lordships proposed Alterations or Amendments, and of the King's Letter; and said, that they had voted their Petition, and expected Reasons from the Lords for those Alterations; and that the Letter is no Answer in a Parliamentary Way to their Petition, etc. it will take up much Time fully to consider thereof; and offered to satisfy their Lordships in the other Part of the Petition."

And the Lord Keeper further reported, "That Sir Dudley Digges (one other of the Commons) desired to have Leave to resort to their House, and they would return suddenly to the Conference again."

After some small Stay, the Commons returned to the Conference; and the Lords having Notice thereof, the House was adjourned during Pleasure.

Their Lordships being returned; the House was resumed.

The Lord Keeper reported, "That the Commons said, They had related unto their House what their Lordships had said concerning the King's Letter; and that their House have resolved not to enter into Consideration thereof, for that it is no Parliamentary Course. And they explained what Sir Edward Cooke had said touching their voting of the Petition; videlicet, That they had voted it at a Committee, not in their House, for otherwise they could not alter any Part thereof."

Lords agree to return to the Conference.

This Report ended; the Lords considered what should be more said unto the Commons, who attended in the Painted Chamber; and, after some small Debate, it was Agreed, To return to the said Conference, and the Lord Keeper to let them know, That it is not the Intent of the Lords to rest only upon the King's Letter for an Answer to the Petition, but to move the Commons to frame the Petition so as it may be best accommodated for the King's Answer; and then to proceed in a Parliamentary Way: Their Desire is not to change the Substance of the Petition (by those Alterations propounded), but only to alter some Phrases, which may haply be displeasing unto His Majesty: And that the Lords desire that the Point of Imprisonment may have Precedency before they debate any other Point of the Petition.

Then the House was again adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference.

Report of the Conference, touching the amending the Petition of Right.

Being returned, and the House resumed; the Lord Keeper reported the Commons Answer to be, "That they conceive the Lords propounded not unto them, that they should wholly rely on the King's Letter for an Answer to the Petition; yet, notwithstanding, they cannot proceed upon the said Letter, it not being a Parliamentary Way.

"That, if the Lords will be pleased to propound the Alterations of the Petition, they will confer thereon."

This Report ended; the Lords began to debate amongst themselves an Accommodation touching the Point of Imprisonment; and the House being put into a Committee, and having agreed not to be concluded by any Proposition of Accommodation, it was resumed again.

Agreed, upon the Question, That To-morrow Morning the House shall proceed to the Accommodation of this Point in the Petition.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem crastinum, videlicet, diem Jovis, 15m diem instantis Maii, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.