House of Lords Journal Volume 10
26 May 1648

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 10: 26 May 1648', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 10: 1648-1649 (1767-1830), pp. 283-285. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=32818 Date accessed: 01 November 2014.


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DIE Veneris, 26 die Maii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Warde.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Rutland.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Kent.
Ds. La Warr.
Ds. Howard.

Answer from the H. C.

Doctor Bennet and Mr. Eltonheade return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That concerning the adding of the Six Lords to the Committee at Derby House, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from thence, with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Annesley; who brought up an additional Ordinance concerning the Fifty Thousand Pounds to be raised for the Affairs of Ireland.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will take their Message into Consideration, and will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Desires of the County of Surry, for an Answer to their Petition; —for Justice against those who murdered some of the Petitioners;—and for no Soldiers to come into that County.

The Earl of Northumb, signified to the House, "That himself, and some of the Gentlemen of the House of Commons that are of Surry, have had a Meeting with some of the Gentlemen of Surry; and they delivered a Paper, which they desired may be communicated to the Houses:"

Which was read, as followeth:

"25th of May, 1648.

"It is desired, on Behalf of the County of Surry, That the ensuing Points be proposed to the Right Honourable the Earl of Northumb. and the Gentlemen of the County of Surry that serve in Parliament, to be by them respectively moved in the Houses of Parliament, for Satisfaction of the said County:

"That an Answer may be had of the House of Commons to the Petition of the said County, presented to both Houses on the 16th of this present Month.

That a speedy Course may be directed for Justice, in a legal Way, against those that committed that bloody Murder and other Outrages upon the Petitioners, when the Petition was presented.

"That no Soldiers be permitted to come and abide in the said County."

Upon this Report; it is Ordered, That these Desires may be sent down to the House of Commons, to recommend to them these Desires of the said County to the House of Commons; and desire that such Satisfaction be given to the County, in their Desires, as may stand with Justice, and may conduce to the Preservation of the Peace of the said County.

The Lord Viscount Say & Seale reported a Paper from the Committee at Derby House; which was read, as followeth:

Paper from the Committee at Derby House, concerning a general Insurrection near London; and that L. Fairfax desired to have the Forces from The Tower and The Mews.

Die Veneris, 26 May, 1648.

"By the Committee of Lords and Commons at Derby House.

"Ordered, That it be reported to both Houses, That this Committee having written to the General, to take Care for Prevention of the Dangers that are imminent, from the Insurrections and Distempers of the People in several Counties adjacent; that the Lord General hath desired, That, to enable him to it, the Forces in The Tower and The Mewes may be free to follow his Orders for it: To offer it thereupon to the Consideration of the Houses, if those Forces be made Use of to that End, how the Houses may fit secure.

That whereas this Committee formerly reported to the Houses, That there was a Conspiracy carried on, in and about London, under an Oath of Secrecy; that we have received several Informations since, that the said Conspiracy is still carried on; that the Committee of Militia of London sent to this Committee a Copy of that Oath of their Association, which is hereunto annexed.

"We have also Intelligence, That, on Tuesday next, there will be a Meeting at Blackheath of the Kentishmen; the same Day of the Surry-men at Putney Heath, and of the Essex-men at Wansteed; and that they had Intelligence one with another, as we are informed. We are also informed, That the People about Greenwich and Deptford are risen, and have seized the Stores at Deptford."

Oath of Secrecy, taken by the Insurgents.

"The Copy of the Oath of Secrecy.

"Imprimis, It is covenanted and agreed, by all the Parties to these Presents, That all and every of them shall forthwith voluntarily take the Oath and Covenant hereunto annexed, and shall engage as many Friends to join with them in the same as possible may be.

"Item, It is also agreed, That One or more Person or Persons, Parties to these Presents, of every Parish or Precinct, shall be elected to be Agents for the rest, to list the Names of such Persons within their Parishes as shall voluntarily join with them in the said Oath; and they, from Time to Time, to hold Intelligence each with other, as Occasion shall require, for the Advancement of the Design.

"We do voluntarily swear, by the Holy Evangelists and the Contents thereof, with our Lives and Fortunes, to maintain, preserve, defend, the true Protestant Religion established by Law, the Laws of the Land, the just Rights and Prerogatives of the King's Majesty and His Successors, and the just Rights and Privileges of His Subjects; and also to be faithful, true, and just, unto all Persons whomsoever here interest, and faithful to keep their Secrets; and faithfully and duly to observe, perform, and keep, this Oath and Covenant, and above received Covenant, Orders, Ordinances, and not to reveal or discover the same to any other Person whatsoever, other than those who are or shall be hereby engaged."

Letter from the Commissioners in Scotland.

Next, a Letter and Papers inclosed, from the Earl of Nottingham, were read. (Here enter them.)

Message to the H. C. with the Desires of the County of Surry.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Bennett and Mr. Eltonheade:

To deliver to them the Desires of the Gentlemen of Surry, with the Sense of this House upon them.

Garrison to be removed from Belvior Castle.

Ordered, That a Letter be written, from both Houses, to the General, to desire him, "That the Garrison in Belvior Castle be speedily removed; the Earl of Rutland having engaged himself to this House, that the said Castle shall be kept from being reprized."

Babington and Bambridge.

Ordered, That the Business between Babbington and Bembrigg, formerly referred to Mr. Justice Bacon and Mr. Justice Roll, is now referred to Mr. Justice Roll and Mr. Justice Godbold, in regard of the Sickness of Mr. Justice Bacon.

Letter from the Commissioners in Scotland, with the following Papers.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These.

"My Lord,

"According to your Lordship's Command, we did communicate your Lordships Votes of May the 6th to the Committee of Estates here the First Day they sat; and therewith did give in the inclosed Paper. We thought it was most for your Lordships Service to do our Endeavour, that they might be engaged to some Answer: Therefore we did send it alone, and deferred our Reply to their Answers concerning the Persons demanded by us, and the Towns of Barwicke and Carlile, formerly sent your Lordship; but, hearing that they had put off their Debate upon the Votes, we gave in our Reply, of which the inclosed is a Copy. We have no more at present, but to assure your Lordship we are,

"My Lord,

Edinburgh, May, 19th 1648.

"Your Lordship's

"Most humble Servant,

"C. Nottingham."

Papers from them to the Committee of Estates, concerning the seizing of Berwick and Carlile.

"Edinburgh, 15 Maii, 1648.

"We have often declared to your Lordships the unfeigned Desires of both Houses of the Parliament of England, to continue and preserve the Union and brotherly Agreement betwixt them and the Parliament and Kingdom of Scotland; and now it may appear to your Lordships and all the World, how really they have endeavoured it, by their Resolutions here inclosed, which we doubt not will give your Lordships Satisfaction. We are to give an Account to both Houses of Parliament of your Lordships Acceptance of what they herein do offer; which we hope your Lordships will return to us with all convenient Speed.

"By Command of the Commissioners of the Parliament of England.

"Tho. Reade."

"Edinburgh, 18 Maii, 1648.

The Answer of the Commissioners of both Houses of the Parliament of England unto the several Papers of the Second and 10th of May Instant, sent to them from the Honourable Parliament of Scotland.

"By your Lordships Paper of the Second of May Instant, in Answer to ours of the 19th and 29th of April (which yet we did not receive till the 10th), you are pleased to inform us, That the Persons remanded are not within this Kingdom; and therefore you think it not necessary to insist upon giving the Reasons of your Lordships former Answer, but offer us a Conference about it: To which we must reply, That, by the same Reason, it is not necessary to have any Conference upon it. And however we shall not wave a Conference concerning the aforesaid Papers if your Lordships shall desire it, yet we with it had been offered to us before those Gentlemen took their Journey from hence, so much to the Prejudice of the Kingdom of England; when, (as we should not have doubted to clear the Justice of our Demands, so) we might have had Hope to reap the Fruit of it, in having those Persons delivered to us; which might have prevented much Mischief that hath and may happen to both Kingdoms.

"For your Lordships Paper of the 10th of May Instant, in Answer to ours of the 2d and 9th of May: As to that Part wherein your Lordships were pleased to say, "That we had, in a former Address to you, informed your Lordships that Guards were kept in Barwicke upon Tweed," we affirm, if your Lordships shall please to peruse that Letter, it will appear that we did not inform your Lordships that any Guards were there, but only a Watch of Townsmen (which, by the Law of the Kingdom of England, every Town may keep); the Scope of our Letter being only to assure your Lordships, that there were no Guards, or Shew of Hostility or a Garrison there; it being the Resolution of the Parliament of England, and of us intrusted by them, not only to keep the Treaties betwixt the Kingdoms inviolable, but to avoid every Thing that might have the least Appearance of a Breach: And therefore, although at that Time the Mayor and Officers of Berwicke did give Charge to the Watch, "That, during the Time of the then intended Horse Race, no Man that had been in Arms against the Parliament should come into the Town," yet, because we heard that some Members of the Parliament here were unsatisfied with it, to avoid Offence, the said Watch was laid down. This being the Truth, whatever we may suffer at present by the surprizing and holding of Berwicke and Carlile, yet our honest and sincere Intention herein, we are assured, is acceptable to God and all good Men; and we are confident will, by God's Blessing, in the Issue, be of more Advantage than if we had under-hand privately carried on unworthy and unrighteous Designs, against our Agreement with this Kingdom, to get them taken and held without your Lordships Consent; although it had been to no other End but to preserve them from those who have been in Arms against us, and who, as they have hitherto been, so will again be found to be, the real Enemies of both Kingdoms.

"As to that Part of the Answer your Lordships are pleased to give us, "That when you shall be certainly informed by what Persons, and by what (fn. *) Power and Authority, these Places are seized upon and garrisoned, we may be confident that this Kingdom will do thereupon what is just and fit, and agreeable to the solemn Covenant and Treaties; and upon this, or any other Thing else we have in Command from the Two Houses, your Lordships are ready to appoint some to confer with us:" We must confess, this Answer seemed very strange to us, when our Papers to which your Lordships did relate assured your Lordships, that they were such Persons as were Enemies to the Parliament and Kingdom of England: And these being English Towns, if we had said no more, considering the Ties that are betwixt these Kingdoms (although there had been no Treaties betwixt us concerning these Towns), yet we conceive had been sufficient Grounds, in our said Papers of the 2d and 9th of May, for our Demands; but we did more particularly tell your Lordships, that they were such as went from this City (of Edinburgh) to take and seize them, and some of those whom we had in the Name of the Parliament of England demanded of your Lordships whilst they were here; although we cannot imagine but the particular Names of those Persons are much better known to many in this City than to us, seeing those in Carlile and Berwicke have frequent and free Recourse hither, even the Commanders in these Towns: Yet we shall more particularly acquaint your Lordships (as we are credibly informed), that of those we have demanded, Sir Marmaduke Langdale did seize Berwicke, and commands the Forces there and thereabouts in Chief; and that with him there is Colonel George Wray, and many such like, that have been Papists in Arms; and that Sir Philip Musgrave hath taken and holds Carlile, and that with him is Captain Wogan and his Troop; which, as to the Persons, we hope will give your Lordships Satisfaction. However, we conceive it was altogether unnecessary further than to answer your Lordships Quere in our Paper; for, if these Towns be taken, seized, and held (as they are) contrary to the Treaties, it is a Breach in any whomsoever.

"For your Lordships Desire, to know by what Power and Authority these Places are seized upon and garrisoned; although we cannot answer it in the Affirmative, yet we may satisfy your Lordships in the Negative, That no Power on Earth, without the Consent of the Parliament of England, can give a lawful Warrant to take or hold those Towns of Berwicke and Carlile, they being to remain disgarrisoned by Act of Parliament; whereof we (fn. †) need not to give further Assurance to your Lordships, the same Act being likewise passed in this Kingdom.

"For the Conference upon this Business offered by your Lordships; although we conceive nothing can be objected against these clear Matters of Fact, yet we should willingly accept of it, but that it must make a Delay, which we have no Reason to occasion on our Part, when, to the Stores of Arms and Ammunition which are already brought to Barwicke and Carlile, mentioned in our former Papers (although not taken Notice of by your Lordships in your Answer), we are credibly informed that several Pieces of Ordnance are now going out of this Kingdom to Barwicke; which if your Lordships do not allow (as we are confident you will not), we hope you will not only use Means to prevent, but now without further Delay make such Declaration against those that now hold the said Towns of Barwicke and Carlile, and their Adherents, as will make it appear to the World that your Lordships are resolved to keep inviolably the solemn Covenant and Treaties betwixt the Kingdoms of England and Scotland.

"By Command of the Commissioners of the Parliament of England.

"Tho. Reade."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a cras.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali. Vide p. 266. a. line 5. from bottom.
Deest in Originali.