House of Lords Journal Volume 10
23 September 1648

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 10: 23 September 1648', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 10: 1648-1649 (1767-1830), pp. 508-510. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=32905 Date accessed: 29 July 2014.


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DIE Saturni, 23 die Septembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Salwey.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Denbigh.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. North.

Answer from the H. C.

Mr. Page and Doctor Bennett return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter and Papers from the Commissioners that are treating with the King, in the Isle of Wight, were read.

(Here enter them.)

Message from the H. C. that they have deferred Private Business;—with Orders and Ordinances; and to remind the Lords of the Lincolnshire one.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Pelham, &c.

1. To put their Lordships in Mind of an Ordinance for uniting the Committees of the County of Lyncolne.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. To acquaint their Lordships, that they have resolved not to entertain any Private Business for Fourteen Days.

3. An Ordinance for preventing the Transportation and other Deceits practised upon the Coin and Bullion of this Kingdom.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order for Francis Betham to be Provostmarshal. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Orders and Ordinances mentioned in this Message.

Author of The Moderate to be attached.

Ordered, That Enquiry be made, who is the Author of the Pamphlet, intituled, "The Moderate," wherein the King and Parliament is much dishonoured; and, upon Discovery of him, he is to be attached and brought before this House, to be proceeded against according to Justice; and that Mr. Dillingham be assistant to the Gentleman Usher herein.

Ordinance to discharge the Excise Accompts for 1646.

The House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to take into Consideration the Ordinance of Discharge to the Commissioners of Excise.

The House being resumed;

The said Ordinance was read the Third Time.

And the Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Ordinance now read?"

The Votes were even.

Sterling and Folkes.

Upon reading again the Report of Mr. Baron Atkins: (Here enter it.)

It is Ordered, That the Order of this House, dated the 10th of December, 1647, for Commitment of Mr. Sterling to the Prison of The Fleete, is hereby revoked and made void; and the said Sterlinge to be released for what (fn. *) concerns the Business of Mr. Folkes.

Burton and Young.

Upon Report of the Lord Hunsdon, from the Committee to consider of the Business between Burton and Young, "That the Committee do find, That the Commissioners of the Great Seal were misinformed, in the granting of the Presentation of the Rectory of Kirkedeighton, in the County of Yorke; therefore think it fit that the said Presentation be revoked, and the Order of Institution and Induction to Young to be revoked:"

It is Ordered, That the said Order of the 14 July last, for Institution and Induction to the said Young, is hereby revoked and made void; and that the Commissioners of the Great Seal do recall their Presentation to the said Younge.

Holmes to be instituted to Arnthorn.

Ordered, That Doctor Aylett give Institution and Induction unto Barnham Holmes Clerk, Master of Arts, to the Rectory of Arnethorpe, in the County of Yorke, void by the Resignation of the last Incumbent; salvo Jure cujuscunque: Granted by the Great Seal.

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, with the following Papers about the Treaty.

"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These.

"My Lord,

"We gave your Lordship an Account by our last, That, on Monday the 18th Instant, the Treaty was to begin; which accordingly was observed. And for the Progress made therein, we refer to the several Papers herewith sent; amongst which, your Lordship will perceive that, in Pursuance of our Commission and Instructions, we have distinguished the Propositions as they solely concern England and Ireland, for our own Use, and more speedy Dispatch of the Treaty; and did (in Answer to His Majesty's Paper of the 18th Instant) deliver unto Him a Copy thereof. And although we have omitted the joint Declaration of both Kingdoms, wherein the Kingdom of Scotland is throughout involved; yet whether any Part thereof shall be treated on, or of the Proposition for the Treaties betwixt both Kingdoms, wherein, as they now stand, are many Particulars which concern Time to come, we humbly desire to know the Pleasure of the Houses how they would have us to proceed herein; conceiving it may be their Intention, That a Proposition be made to His Majesty, That both Houses of Parliament, and all that have acted by their Authority (in reference to the several Treaties between the Two Kingdoms) may be justified and secured. The King hath given us a Paper in Answer to ours, concerning the recalling all Oaths, Declarations, &c. which is yet under Debate; whereof by the next we shall give you a further Account; and rest

Newport, 21 Sept. 1648.

"Your Lordship's

"Humble Servants,

"Northumberland. Pembrooke & Mount.
Salisbury.
"Middlesex. W. Say & Seale."

(fn. **) The Commissioners First Paper delivered to the King.

"Newport, 18 Septembris, 1648.

"May it please Your Majesty,

"We having now made known unto Your Majesty our Commission, by which we are authorized to treat with You personally upon the Propositions formerly presented at Hampton Court, as they concern the Kingdom of Engl'd and Ireland only, and such other Propositions as are therein mentioned; do crave Leave humbly to declare, That we are directed, by our Instructions, to treat upon them with Your Majesty for the Space of Forty Days, beginning this present Day; and to proceed in the First Place upon the Propositions following in Order; (videlicet,) that for recalling and annulling all Oaths, Declarations, Proclamations, and other Proceedings, against both or either Houses of Parliament, or against any for adhering unto them; those concerning the Church, the Militia, and Ireland; and then upon the rest, in the same Order they are now placed; and to receive Your Majesty's Answer in Writing to each of them; being likewise enjoined to deliver all our Demands, and to receive Your Majesty's Answers, in Writings: Wherefore we humbly pray, that nothing may be understood to be binding of either Side, but what shall be so set down in Writing. And accordingly we are ready to present unto Your Majesty a Paper, concerning that First Proposition for recalling of Declarations."

* * The King's First Paper, desiring the Propositions, and Copies of the Instructions.

"Newport, 18 Septembr. 1648.

"CHARLES R.

"Whereas the Commission read refers to Propositions and Instructions thereupon; His Majesty desires to have those Propositions to be delivered to Him, and Copies of the Instructions."

* * The Commissioners Second Paper, containing the First Proposition.

"Newport, 18 Sept. 1648.

"We humbly desire of Your Majesty to give Your Royal Assent to this Proposition ensuing:

"That whereas both Houses of Parliament have been necessitated to undertake a War, in their just and lawful Defence; and that the Kingdom of England hath entered into a solemn League and Covenant to prosecute the same; an Act of Parliament may pass, whereby all Oaths, Declarations, and Proclamations, heretofore had, or hereafter to be had, against both or either of the Houses of Parliament, or against any for adhering unto them, or for doing or executing any Office, Place, or Charge, by any Authority derived from them, and all Judgements, Indictments, Outlawries, Attainders, and Inquisitions, in any the said Causes, and all Grants thereupon made or had, or to be made or had, be declared null, suppressed, and forbidden; and this be publicly intimated, in all Parish Churches, and other Places needful, within Your Majesty's Dominions of England and Ireland."

* * The King's Second Paper; signifying, Nothing shall be binding but what is in Writing.

"Newport, 18 Sept. 1648.

"CHARLES R.

"His Majesty declares, That, according to your Desire, nothing shall be understood to be binding of either Side, but what shall be set down in Writing; and also further declares, That no Agreement put in Writing, concerning any Proposition, or Part of a Proposition, be binding until the Conclusion of the whole Treaty, unless it shall be otherwise especially agreed."

** The Commissioners Third Paper, in Answer to the King's First Paper.

"Newport, 18 Sept. 1648.

"Whereas Your Majesty is (fn. *) pleased, in Your First Paper of the 18th of September, to desire a Copy of the Propositions, and our Instructions thereupon; we humbly answer, That the Propositions themselves were formerly presented unto Your Majesty at Hampton Court, and are (as we conceive) still in Your own Hands (excepting that for the Court of Wards, which hath been delivered unto You here in the Isle of Wight): And as to what concerns our Instructions, we do humbly say, That we have no Warrant from the Houses of Parliament to deliver out any Copy of them."

** The King's Third Paper, desiring to have all the Propositions together.

"Newport, 18 Sept. 1648.

"CHARLES R.

"His Majesty conceives the Answer to His Demands for a Copy of your Propositions not satisfactory; because you refer Him to the Propositions formerly presented to Him at Hampton Court; which He having perused, finds most of those Propositions involves Scotland, as well as England and Ireland; and yet your Commission expresseth, you are to treat in reference to England and Ireland: Therefore he conceives it requisite, that, before the Propositions, or any of them, be treated upon, He may see the Propositions entirely and altogether, as they are to be treated on at this Time, that thereby He may be the better able to give Satisfaction in the following Treaty."

** The Commissioners Fourth Paper, in Answer to the latter Part of the King's Second Paper.

"Newport, the 18th Sept. 1648.

"As to the latter Part of the Second Paper delivered unto us this 18th Instant; we shall acquaint the Houses of Parliament, That Your Majesty hath declared, that no Agreement put in Writing, concerning any Proposition, or Part of a Proposition, be binding until the Conclusion of the whole Treaty, unless it shall be otherwise especially agreed."

** The Commissioners Fifth Paper, tendering a Draught of the Propositions, &c.

"Newport, 19 Septembr. 1648.

"As for Your Majesty's Demand of seeing the Propositions entirely and altogether, as they are to be treated on at this Time, before they or any of them be treated upon; we do humbly answer, That we find not ourselves warranted, by our Instructions, to present unto Your Majesty our Desires concerning all the Propositions at once, or in any Sort to treat upon them, but in Order one after another: Yet, since we have prepared, for (fn. *) our own Use, and the better expediting of this Treaty, a Draught of the Propositions separated from what concerns the Kingdom of Scotland, and relating only to the Kingdom of England and Ireland, according to our Commission and Instructions by which we are authorized for this Service; to the End no Prejudice may befal it by reason of any Delay, we do herewith tender unto Your Majesty a Copy of the Propositions so distinguished: But with this Declaration of our Intention therein, That is not by Way of Treaty, but out of an humble Desire of giving Your Majesty Satisfaction, in the View of those Propositions now, which are afterwards in their Order and several Places to be treated on, upon such Papers as we shall deliver in concerning each of them; we being expressly prohibited by our Instructions to treat upon, or receive (fn. †) any to, any subsequent Proposition, before there be a Conclusion of that which went before. In Observance whereof, we now humbly desire Your Majesty's Answer to our Paper delivered Yesterday, concerning the Proposition for recalling all Declarations and other Proceedings against the Parliament, or those who have acted by their Authority."

Lincoln. Committee, for Assessments, &c. to have Power through the whole County.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Committee appointed for the Monthly Assessments for Sir Thomas Fairefax'. Army, in the County of Lincolne, have equal Power throughout the whole County as heretofore in former Ordinances they had; and to put in Execution all former Ordinances, and to collect the Arrears thereof."

Ordinance for Bethum to be Provost Marshal.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That a Provost Marshal be appointed, for the Safeguard of the Parliament; and that Francis Bethum be, and is hereby, appointed Provost Marshal for that Purpose; and that he shall have a Commission granted unto him to be Provost Marshal, for Apprehension of such (fn. *) as are within Twenty Miles of London, without the Liberties of the City, against the Ordinances of Parliament, and of other dangerous Persons, that have listed, or are listing themselves; and that the said Provost Marshal have Power to apprehend and surprize all such Person or Persons as sell, sing, or publish, Ballads or Books scandalous to the Parliament or their Proceedings, and to suppress Playhouses, and apprehend the Players, and keep the said Persons apprehended in Custody, and carry them to the Committees of the Militias of the several Counties and Places where they shall be apprehended, to take Course with them according to Ordinance of Parliament; the said Power to continue for Three Months: And it is further Ordered, That the Sum of Two Hundred Pounds be advanced, and charged upon Habberdash'rs Hall, for the Pay of the Provost Marshal; and that the Sum of Two Hundred Pounds more be added, for the Guards that attend the Houses, and be charged upon Habberdash'rs Hall, for the constant Pay of the said Guard; and that the Committee of Darby House do grant a Commission to the said Francis Bethum accordingly."

Ordinance to prevent the Exportation of Bullion.

"Whereas a Commission was lately issued, under the Seal of His Majesty's Court of Exchequer, unto Edward Watkins Esquire, and others, Commissioners for Discovery of Transporters of Coin and Bullion, and of several other Deceits practised upon the Coins of this Kingdom; and whereas it may so fall out, that some Persons of meaner Condition, who are themselves in some Sort guilty of transporting of Coin and Bullion, or have been employed by others for the buying up of Coin to be transported, or for culling the weightiest Coin to the End the same might for Gain be melted down again, or for clipping or washing of Coin, may and would discover divers other greater and more subtle Offenders (which would be a good Service in them to the Commonwealth), were (fn. *) it not for the Greatness of the Penalties and Forfeitures which upon their Confessions they will be liable unto: It is therefore thought fit, and Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That every Person and Persons, making any such Discovery of such other Offenders, shall, upon a Certificate under the Hands and Seals of the Commissioners in the aforesaid Commission named, or any Two or more of them (whereof the said Edward Watkins to be One), with the Approbation of the Attorney or Solicitor General for the Time being, made and delivered unto the Barons of the Exchequer for the Time being, of such Discovery of such other Offenders, be, by the said Barons, discharged and freed of and from all Penalties and Forfeitures to be imposed on him or them, for so much as he or they shall so confess, and as shall or may concern him or themselves only, and no more: And His Majesty's Attorney and Solicitor General for the Time being respectively are not to proceed against any the said Person or Persons for or by reason of the Premises; but that the said Parties, so declaring as aforesaid, be discharged by the said Attorney or Solicitor's Confession, or otherwise, according to the Course of the said Court of Exchequer in the like Cases."

Sterling and Folkes.

"Aug. 22, 1648.

"According to your Lordships Order of the 16th of August Instant, I have considered of the Petition of Anthony Sterling, and the Matter therein contained (none attending me for the adverse Party Fowkes); and I find, that the Petitioner Sterling, in the Beginning of this Parliament, did petition the Lords Committees for Petitions, to be relieved against a Sentence in the Star-chamber, whereby he was sentenced to pay Five Hundred Pounds to the King, and Three Hundred Eighty Pounds Damages and Costs to the Plaintiff Folkes. The Lords Committees referred the Consideration of that Petition to the then Judges of Assize for the County of Suff. and ordered that an Habeas Corpus should be granted for the now Petitioner, whereby he may have Liberty to inform their Lordships of the Grievances contained in the said Petition. And the Petitioner, having obtained his Liberty, did procure the Lord Chief Justice Banks and Mr. Serjeant Whitefeild, then Judges of Assize for the County of Suff. to hear the Matters in Difference between him and the said Folkes; and they, upon hearing thereof, did refer the same to Law. Afterwards the said Folkes, who was Plaintiff in the Star-chamber, preferred his Petition to your Lordships, complaining, "That the said Sterling, having obtained his Liberty by Pretence of the said Habeas Corpus, had got into Possession of his the said Folkes's Lands and Goods;" the Consideration whereof your Lordships referred to the Judges, or any Two of them: And thereupon Mr. Baron Trevor, Mr. Justice Pheasant, Mr. Justice Godbold, and myself, were of Opinion, "That the Petitioner should be remanded unto the Prison of The Fleete, where he was formerly in Execution, until he had paid the said Folkes his Damages and Costs;" which Certificate your Lordships were pleased to confirm. But now I find, by the Certificate of the Warden of The Fleete, that the Petitioner Sterling was committed for Not-payment of the King's Fine, and upon a certain Contempt, and not for Payment of Three Hundred and Four Score Pounds to Folkes. I therefore conceive it not fit that the Petitioner should be released of his Imprisonment; but that he should stand committed to the Prison of The Fleete, in such Condition as he was before the granting of the Habeas Corpus by the Lords Committees. And if he hath just Cause to be discharged of his Imprisonment, he may take his legal Course, by Habeas Corpus, to be delivered; and that your Lordships may be pleased to withdraw your Warrant of Commitment, grounded upon the Report of Mr. Justice Godbold and myself, until the Petitioner paid the said Folkes Three Hundred and Four Score Pounds, Damages and Costs; it not appearing to me that he was ever committed for the same.

"All which &c.

"Edw. Atkins."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a Monday Morning next.

Footnotes

* Origin. concerning.
** This and the following Marginal Notes marked thus are in the Original.
* Origin. please.
* Deest in Originali.
Sic.
* Deest in Originali.