House of Lords Journal Volume 10
26 September 1648

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 10: 26 September 1648', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 10: 1648-1649 (1767-1830), pp. 513-514. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=32907 Date accessed: 31 July 2014.


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Contents

DIE Martis, 26 die Septembris.
Gibbons, a Pass. Simcutt, D°. Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the King. Letter, &c. between Gen. Cromwell and the Scots. Gen. Cromwell's Service approved of: To assist the Scots, in Opposition to the D. of Hamilton. Message to the H. C. about it; and with the Letter from the King. Hertf. Petition, to be eased in their Taxes. Ordinance to discharge the Excise Accompts for 1646. Boone & al. and Ducket. Sir L. Kirk and Bishop. Letter from the Commissioners with the King, with the following Papers about the Treaty. * * Copy of the King's Fourth Paper, in Answer to the Commissioners Second Paper, recalling of Oaths, Declarations, &c. * * The Commissioners Seventh Paper, insisting upon the First Part of their Paper of the 18th Instant. * * The King's Fifth Paper. * * The Commissioners Sixth Paper, in Answer to the King's Fifth Paper of the 20th of September, 1648, that they desire a Debate; but cannot shew their Instructions. * * The King's Paper, in Answer to the Commissioners Paper of the 10th Instant. * * The King's Seventh Paper, in relation to His former Paper, that nothing be binding, &c. * * The King's Eighth Paper, in Answer to the Commissioners Second Paper, being the First Proposition. * * The Commissioners Eighth Paper, in Answer to the King's Seventh and Eight Papers. Ordinance to discharge the Accompts of the Commissioners of Excise, to Michaelmas, 1646. Letter from the King, for some Persons to have Passes to come to Him, from the Estates of Scotl. Adjourn. Footnotes

DIE Martis, 26 die Septembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Salwey.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.
Comes Kent.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Suffolke.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. North.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Hunsdon.

Gibbons, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Gibbins shall have a Pass, to go to the Isle of Wight.

Simcutt, D°.

Ordered, That Mr. Simcutt shall have a Pass, to go into France.

Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter, with a Packet of Papers, from the Commissioners with the King, in the Isle of Wight, read; and ordered to be sent to the House of Commons.

(Here enter.)

Letter, &c. between Gen. Cromwell and the Scots.

The Earl of Denbigh reported divers Letters and Papers from Derby House:

A Letter from Lieutenant General Cromwell, read.

Another Letter from Lieutenant General Cromwell, sent to the Governor of Berwick, read.

The Governor of Berwick's Answer, read.

The Lord Louden's Letter, read.

Lieutenant General Cromwell's Answer to the Lord Louden, read.

Articles between the Two Armies in Scotland, read.

An Expostulation between the Two Armies in Scotl. read.

Ordered, That all these Papers be sent to the House of Commons.

Gen. Cromwell's Service approved of:

Resolved, &c.

That this House doth approve of the Actions of Lieutenant General Cromwell, in Pursuance of the Orders he received from the Committee sitting at Derby House; which they likewise approve of.

To assist the Scots, in Opposition to the D. of Hamilton.

Resolved, &c.

That in case those Noblemen and others, that dissented against the Invasion of the Kingdom of Engl. by the Army under the Command of Duke Hamilton, shall desire the Assistance of Lieutenant General Cromwell, that he be ready to afford them all seasonable Relief and Assistance.

The Concurrence of the House of Commons desired herein.

Message to the H. C. about it; and with the Letter from the King.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Bennett and Doctor Heath:

1. To communicate to them the Letter from the King.

2. To communicate to them the Letters read and reported this Day from the Committee of Derby House, with the Two Votes now made, wherein their Concurrence is desired; and that the Committee at Derby House do send the said Votes to the Lieutenant General Cromewell, inclosed in a Letter.

Hertf. Petition, to be eased in their Taxes.

Judge Bacon acquainted the House with a Petition delivered to him the last Assizes for the County of Hertford, by the Grand Inquest; desiring, "to be eased in their Taxes."

Which being read; it is Ordered, To be taken into Consideration when the Ordinance for Continuance of the Assessments for the Army (fn. *)

Ordinance to discharge the Excise Accompts for 1646.

The Question being put, "Whether to agree to the Ordinance for discharging the Commissioners of the Excise, for the Year ending 29 Sept. 1646?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

(Here enter it.)

Boone & al. and Ducket.

Ordered, That the Cause between Thomas Boone and others Plaintiffs, and Christopher Duckett Defendant, upon a Writ of Error depending in this House, shall be argued, at this Bar, on the 12th of October next, at Ten of the Clock in the Morning; at which Time the Parties, by their Counsel, are to attend.

Sir L. Kirk and Bishop.

Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament assembled, That the Cause between Sir Lewis Kirke Plaintiff, and Edmund Bishopp Defendant, upon a Writ of Error depending in this House, shall be argued, at this Bar, on the 12th of October next, at Ten of the Clock in the Morning; at which Time the Parties, by their Counsel, are to attend.

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, with the following Papers about the Treaty.

"For the Right Honourable the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These.

"My Lord,

"We herewith present unto your Lordship the Business of the last Week; and this Morning your Lordship will, amongst other Papers, receive One, wherein His Majesty doth declare, "That nothing that shall be put in Writing, concerning any Proposition, or Part of a Proposition, shall be binding, prejudicial, or in any Manner made Use of, if the Treaty break off upon any other Proposition, or Part of any Proposition, unless it shall be otherwise especially agreed." We also formerly sent a Declaration of His Majesty's to the like Effect. We humbly desire to know the Pleasure of the House hereupon; and shall most carefully and diligently obey their Directions. We remain,

"My Lord,

Newport, the 25th Sept. 1648.

"Your Lordship's

"Most humble Servants,

"A. Northumberland. Pembrooke & Mount.
Salisbury.
Middlesex.
W. Say & Seale."

* * Copy of the King's Fourth Paper, in Answer to the Commissioners Second Paper, recalling of Oaths, Declarations, &c.

Newport, the 19th of September, 1648.

"CHARLES R.

"In Answer to your Paper of the 18th of September, concerning the recalling of Oaths, and Declarations.

"His Majesty will consent to an Act of Parliament, whereby all Oaths, Declarations, and Proclamations, heretofore had, or to be had, against both or either of the Houses of Parliament, or against any for adhering unto them, or for doing or executing any Office, Place, or Charge, by any Authority derived from them, and all Judgements, Indictments, Outlawries, and Inquisitions, in any the said Causes, and all Grants thereupon made or had, or to be made or had, be declared null, suppressed, and forbidden; and that this be publicly intimated, in all Parish Churches and other Places needful within His Majesty's Dominions of England and Ireland."

* * The Commissioners Seventh Paper, insisting upon the First Part of their Paper of the 18th Instant.

"Newport, the 20th of September, 1648.

"Having considered Your Majesty's Paper of the 19th of this present September, to ours of the 18th, concerning the recalling Oaths, Declarations, &c.; we find that Your Majesty hath not yet given Your Answer to an essential Part of the Proposition contained in our Paper, being the Ground upon which the said Oaths, Declarations, &c. are desired to be recalled, and expressed in these Words; (videlicet,) "Whereas both Houses of Parliament have been necessitated to undertake a War in their just and lawful Defence, and that the Kingdom of England hath entered into a solemn League and Covenant to prosecute the same:" We do therefore crave Leave to insist upon this Part of our former Demand; having endeavoured, by this Day's Debate with Your Majesty, to shew how necessary a Foundation Your Consent herein will be to a firm and durable Peace, and how great an Expectation both Houses and the Kingdom have thereof: And do humbly pray, that Your Majesty will please to consent that those Words before recited be a Part of the Act of Parliament for recalling Oaths, Declarations, &c."

* * The King's Fifth Paper.

"Newport, the 20th of September, 1648.

"CHARLES R.

"His Majesty (fn. *) is desirous to know whether you have any Power to consent to any Omissions or Alterations, if in the Matter of this or any other Debate He shall give such Reasons as shall satisfy you for any such Omission or Alteration."

* * The Commissioners Sixth Paper, in Answer to the King's Fifth Paper of the 20th of September, 1648, that they desire a Debate; but cannot shew their Instructions.

"Newport, the 20th of September, 1648.

"We are ready, by Debate, to shew how reasonable our Desires are, and that there will be no Reason that we should alter or recede from them: But if, in the Matter of this or any other Debate, Your Majesty give such Reasons as shall satisfy us of any Omissions or Alterations in the Papers we present to Your Majesty, we shall then do therein as we are warranted by our Instructions; which we have not Power to make known, as we have declared in a former Paper of the 18th of this Instant, delivered to Your Majesty."

* * The King's Paper, in Answer to the Commissioners Paper of the 10th Instant.

"Newport, 21 Sept. 1648.

"CHARLES R.

"Albeit His Majesty did shew a different Opinion from you the Commissioners in the Debate Yesterday; yet (He believes) He made His Desire of a thorough and constant Peace very apparent to you: For the End of all His Arguments were, how that all His Subjects might remain, upon the Conclusion of this Treaty, not only secure in their Lives and Estates by Law, but also that all Cause of future Fears and Jealousies might be taken away from them. And because His Majesty finds very great Difficulty to settle the Minds of all Sorts of People, He conceives that you cannot think it strange, though He does not give a very present Answer to this your last Paper of Yesterday's Date (received this Morning); assuring you, that He will lose no Time in the using His utmost Endeavours for the securing of all His Subjects; there being nothing more in His Thoughts, than how to give a speedy as well as happy Conclusion to this Treaty."

* * The King's Seventh Paper, in relation to His former Paper, that nothing be binding, &c.

"CHARLES R.

"His Majesty, by His Paper of the 18th of this Instant Sept. declared, "That no Agreement put in Writing, concerning any Proposition, or Part of a Proposition, be binding until the Conclusion of the whole Treaty, unless it shall be otherwise especially agreed." His Majesty doth now further declare, That nothing that shall be put in Writing, concerning any Proposition, or Part of a Proposition, shall be binding, prejudicial, or in any Manner made Use of, if the Treaty break off upon any other Proposition, or Part of any Proposition, unless it shall be otherwise especially agreed.

* * The King's Eighth Paper, in Answer to the Commissioners Second Paper, being the First Proposition.

"Newport, the 25th of Sept. 1648."

"CHARLES R.

"In Answer to the First Proposition given to His Majesty on Monday the 18th of this Instant Sept. His Majesty doth consent thereto, as is desired.

"Newport, the 25th of Sept. 1648."

* * The Commissioners Eighth Paper, in Answer to the King's Seventh and Eight Papers.

"Newport, 25th of September, 1648.

"Having received Two Papers from Your Majesty, dated this 25th Instant; in the First of which Your Majesty declares, "That nothing that shall be put in Writing concerning any Proposition, or Part of a Proposition, shall be binding, prejudicial, or in any Manner made Use of, if the Treaty break off upon any other Proposition, or Part of any Proposition, until it shall be otherwise especially agreed;" and in the Second, in Answer to the First Proposition, given to Your Majesty on Monday the 18th of this Instant September, Your Majesty doth consent thereto, as is desired: We shall transmit the said Papers, with the other Proceedings passed in Writing on the First Proposition, to both Houses of Parliament; and speedily go in the Treaty, according to our Instruction."

Ordinance to discharge the Accompts of the Commissioners of Excise, to Michaelmas, 1646.

"Whereas the Receipts of divers Rates of Excise and new Impost set and imposed by Four several Ordinances of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament; that is to say, the First of the said Ordinances commencing the Eleventh of September, which was in the Year of our Lord God 1643, and is commonly called the Grand Excise; the Second of the said Ordinances bearing Date the 9th Day of January, in the said Year 1643; the Third of the said Ordinances bearing Date the 8th Day of July, which was in the Year of our Lord God 1644; and the Fourth of the said Ordinances bearing Date the 24th Day of November, which was in the Year of our Lord God 1645; to have Continuance for One whole Year from the Times of the Commencement of the said Four several Ordinances respectively; have sithence, by several other Ordinances of the said Lords and Commons, been continued in the Hands, and under the Regulation, Order, and Government, of the Commissioners in the said first recited Ordinance of the 11th September, 1643, named and appointed, and the Survivors of them, in such Manner, and during such Time, as in and by the several Ordinances passed for their Continuance accordingly is expressed: And whereas, by One other Ordinance of the said Lords and Commons, bearing Date the 4th Day of October, which was in the Year of our Lord God 1645, it is ordered and appointed, that all and every the Accompts of the said Excise and new Impost should then all determine upon the 29th Day of September, 1645, and afterwards Quarterly, upon the Four usual Feasts, Days, or Terms of the Year, as by the last recited Ordinance, Relation being thereunto had, more fully may appear: And whereas, in Pursuance thereof, the Accompts of Thomas Foote, John Kendrick, Thomas Cullum, and Symon Edmonds, Esquires, and Aldermen of the City of London, John Lamott and Edward Claxton, of the same, Esquires, Chief Commissioners and Governors as aforesaid of all and every the said Receipts, for One whole Year, ended the 29th of September, 1646, upon the said several Ordinances of the 11th of September, and 9th of January, 1643, as also upon the said Ordinance of the 8th July, 1644, and upon the aforesaid Ordinance of the 24th November, 1645, from the Commencement thereof, until the said 29th September, 1646, have been duly audited, examined, and pricked over, with the Vouchers, Entries, and Books of Accompts thereof, in the several Offices throughout the Kingdom, by William Bond Esquire, sole Auditor of the said Receipts in that Behalf appointed, according to the Directions prescribed in and by several Ordinances of Parliament; which said Accompts have been likewise presented by the said Auditor unto the Committee of Lords and Commons for regulating the Excise, and by them considered of, examined, and allowed: Be it therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the said Tho. Foote, John Kendrick, Thomas Cullum, Symon Edmonds, John Lamott, and Edward Claxton, Chief Commissioners of Excise, and every of them, their and every of their Heirs, Executors, and Administrators respectively, hereby now are, and from Time to Time, and at all Times for ever hereafter, by Authority of Parliament, shall be, saved harmless and defended, for and concerning all and every Act and Acts whatsoever, by them or any of them, or by their or any of their Sub-commissioners, Deputies, or Under Officers whatsoever, by their Direction, or any of them, done or executed, in or concerning the collecting of the said Rates of Excise and new Impost, or in or concerning the Ordering and Governing thereof; and that the said Thomas Foote, John Kendrick, Tho. Cullum, Symon Edmonds, John Lamott, and Edward Claxton, and every of them, their Heirs, Executors, and Administrators respectively, are hereby, and for ever hereafter shall be, acquitted and discharged of and from all Receipts, Payments, Reckonings, Accompts, Questions, and Demands whatsoever, of, for, touching, and concerning, the said Four several Ordinances of Parliament herein first recited, for the several Terms before specified respectively, ending the 29th September, 1646: And lastly, be it Ordained, by Authority aforesaid, That the said Thomas Foote, John Kendrick, Thomas Cullum, Symon Edmonds, John Lamott, and Edward Claxton, and every of them, their Heirs, Executors, and Administrators, are, and shall be, liable for such Sums of Money of the Debts and Surcharges set over insuper upon the Sub-commissioners and Debtors in the said Accompt named, and for all such other Sums of Money due for Excise, by virtue of the said several Ordinances, until the said 29th September, 1646, before named, as already have, or hereafter shall, come to their or any of their Hands, and no more."

Letter from the King, for some Persons to have Passes to come to Him, from the Estates of Scotl.

"CHARLES R.

"We have, by your last of the 21th present, and the Votes inclosed, been fully informed of the Reasons why you have not granted any safe Conducts for the Lord Carnagy and Sir Alexander Gibson to come out of Scotland to attend Us here; which, until We received those Votes, We were utterly ignorant of. Yet, seeing you have thereby granted a safe Conduct for Sir James Carmichell, We have again sent Our Servant Richard Parsons to attend you, to receive and carry it with him into Scotland; for whom likewise We desire a Pass, for his Going and Returning. And if the Committee of Our Parliament of Scotland shall desire safe Conducts from you for Two or Three other Persons to attend Us likewise, that may not be liable to Exception, We are assured you will not deny them, that so We may the more fully understand the Condition of Our Affairs in that Kingdom. So We bid you Farewell.

"From Our Court at Newport, in the Isle of Wight, this 25th Sept. 1648.

"For the Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore; to be communicated to the Lords and Commons of the Parliament of England at Westm'r."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a, Thursday Morning next.

Footnotes

* Sic.
* Deest in Originali.