House of Lords Journal Volume 7
19 November 1644

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 19 November 1644', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 69-70. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33161 Date accessed: 01 August 2014.


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DIE Martis, 19 die Novembris.

Prayers, by Mr. Walker.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Sarum.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Rutland.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. North.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Maynard.

Earl of Northumberland excused.

The Earl of Northumb. is excused for being absent this Day.

Papers from the Assembly.

Mr. Marshall, accompanied with divers of the Assembly, presented to their Lordships Consideration a Paper; which was read, as followeth. (Here enter it.)

Next, Dr. Burges, One of the Assessors of the Assembly, presented to this House another Paper, concerning Mr. Ralph Robinson, who declines the Way of Ordination, he being but a Deacon, according to the Ordinance of Parliament; which the Assembly leaves to the further Consideration of this House.

The said Paper was read. (Here enter it.)

Pass for the Spanish Ambassador to go to the King.

Ordered, That a Pass from this House shall be granted, for the Lord Ambassador of Spaine, and his Train, consisting of Thirty Persons, Three Coaches, Eight Saddle-horses, and One Carriage, to go to Oxford, to His Majesty's Court, and return to London again, without Interruption; also another Pass, for Francis Bernardi Esquire, his Lordship's Agent, and his Two Servants, who is to go before, to give Notice for his Lordship's Entertainment.

Paper from the Assembly, about Mr. Robinson, Pastor of St. Mary Wolnoth, declining to be ordained a Presbyter.

"Mr. Ralph Robinson, chosen to be Pastor of the Parish Church of Mary Woolnoth, London, not being a Presbyter, repaired to the Ministers appointed to ordain, desiring to be ordained a Presbyter for the Charge aforesaid, and submitted himself to Examination; but, after some Procedings therein, he declined the Ministers and Way of Ordination; alledging, that he is already Deacon, and supposeth that to be enough; and in Case it be not, he hopes that within a Year there will be another more settled Way of Ordination, and then he may be ordained. This Act of his the Ministers appointed to ordain do conceive to be a waving and weakening of the Ordinance; and that there is a Necessity of having Recourse both to the Assembly and to the Houses of Parliament, for their Direction and Declaration herein, as well for the Point of his Admission to his Charge, upon a Presentation to the Place actually void, as the Sufficiency of his Ordination already attained.

"Monday, the 18th of November, 1644.

"The Assembly of Divines, upon the Debate of this Case, have Resolved, upon the Question, as followeth:

"1. This Assembly doth advise, that they who have hitherto been ordained Deacons only according to the Form of Ordination used in the Church of England, be ordained Presbyters before they undertake a Pastoral Charge in any Congregration.

"2. Those Ministers appointed to ordain, who are Members of this Assembly, shall carry up this Case, and the Vote of this Assembly thereupon, to the Honourable Houses of Parliament; with humble Submission of the whole Matter to their Wisdom.

"William Twisse, Prolocutor.
"Cornelius Burges, Assessor.
"John White, Assessor.
"Adoniram Byfield, Scribe."

Paper from thence, concerning the Dissent of some of their Members to the Propositions for Church Goverment.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament.

"Whereas, by an Order of the Honourable House of Commons, bearing Date the 12th of November Instant, it was Ordered, That the Opinion of any Persons, Members of the Assembly, dissenting from the Propositions concerning Church Government, presented to that House by the Assembly on Friday then last past, together with their Reasons, should be presented in Writing to the Assembly, by Thursday then next following at the farthest; the Assembly have received Reasons, in the Names, and under the Hands, of Mr. Thomas Goodwin, Mr. Phillip Nye, Mr. Sydrach Sympson, Mr. William Greenhill, Mr. Jeremy Burroughes, Mr. William Bridge, and Mr. William Carter (who had before entered their Dissents in the Assembly), against the Third of the said Propositions; (videlicet), "The Scripture holds forth, that many particular Congregations may be under One Presbyterial Government," and the Proofs thereof, which we delivered into the Assembly the said Thursday, towards the End of the Session, and read in the Assembly on Friday the Day following, which contain about Eight Sheets of Paper in a small Hand, wherein they have brought in as much as they thought fit of their Arguments (against the Proposition) debated in the Assembly for Thirteen Sessions at least, and their Exceptions against the Instance of the Church of Jerusalem for Sixteen Sessions more (of which Debates the Scribes have written Threescore Sheets of Paper), besides many Things which they since alledged in the Assembly, against other Parts of Government, not yet sent up to the Honourable Houses of Parliament (as particularly against Synods), and some Things which they had not at all produced in the Assembly; and a great Part of what they had produced is now put into a new Frame, different from that wherein it was there proposed; all which, though it may make the Return of those Reasons (with the Answers of the Assembly) later than possibly this Honourable House might expect, yet we shall use all Diligence in drawing up our Answers to them; and do not doubt but to give this Honourable House a sufficient Satisfaction, and a clear Solution to them, with all convenient Speed.

"William Twisse, Prolocutor.
"Cornelius Burgesse, Assessor.
"John White, Assessor.
"Henry Robrough, Scribe.
"Adoniram Byfield, Scribe."