House of Lords Journal Volume 7
4 February 1645

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 4 February 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 175-176. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33225 Date accessed: 21 August 2014.


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DIE Martis, 4 die Februarii.

PRAYERS, by Dr. Gouge.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

L. Admiral.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Kent.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
L. General.
Comes Suffolke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Stamford.
Ds. North.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Mountague.

Church, alias Churchman, for Words against the King.

This Day Church, alias Churchman, was brought up, by Order of this House, for speaking Treasonable Words against the King.

Hereupon it is Ordered, That he shall be committed to the Prison of Newgate, there to remain until he be released upon a Trial; and it is referred to the Judges, or any Two of them, to consider what Course is fit to be taken, to proceed against him; and to this Purpose, Mr. Serjeant Fynch (fn. *) is to attend the Judges, and give them Information of the Evidence against him.

James versus Middleton.

Upon reading the Petition of John James, One of the Yeomen of His Majesty's Chamber in Ordinary; desiring, "to take his ordinary Course in Law against Henry Middleton; being bound for him, and having paid Monies for him:" And in regard of his Privilege of this House, as being the King's Servant, granted him in January 1643; and the Petitioner desiring to take his Remedy in Law: It is Ordered, That a Copy of the Petition be shewed to Middleton, who is to shew Cause why the Petition should not be granted.

Ordinance for the Army to be under the Command of Sir T. Fairfax.

The House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure, to take into Consideration the Ordinance for a Model of a new Army; and, after Debate, and full Consideration of it, the House was resumed; and the said Ordinance was reported to the House as fit to pass, with the Alterations and Provisos made therein.

And the said Ordinance was read, with the Amendments, and Provisos, and Additions; and it was Resolved, upon the Question, That this House agrees to the Ordinance, with these Additions, Amendments, and Provisos.

Ordered, To be sent down to the House of Commons.

Message to the H. C. with it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To desire their Concurrence in the Ordinance concerning the Model of a new Army, with the Amendments, Additions, and Provisos.

The Speaker acquainted the House, "That he hath received this Morning a Packet of Letters from the Commissioners at Uxbridge;" which were read, as followeth:

Letter from the Commissioners for the Treaty, about the Progress of the Propositions concerning Religion.

"To the Right Honourable the Lord Grey of Warke, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"This Morning the Commissioners sent from His Majesty shewed unto us their Commission amended, the Copy whereof, and of a Paper which they gave us, with our Answer to the same, we have herewith sent you. After these Papers given and received, this whole Day, from Ten of the Clock in the Morning until almost Twelve at Night, was spent in Debate upon the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy; when the Debate ended, being very desirous to obtain some satisfactory Answer before the expiring of the Three Days appointed to treat concerning Religion, we delivered unto His Majesty's Commissioners the Second Paper, which, with their Answer to it, we have likewise sent you with these Letters; and have prepared our Papers to be given in upon the Propositions concerning the Militia.

"Your Lordship's Humble and faithful Servants,

Uxbridge, the 3d of Febr. 1644. One at Night.

"A. Northumberland.
"Salisbury.
Pembroke & Mount.
B. Denbigh."

Paper from the King's Commissioners, concerning the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy.

"3d February, 1644.

"We are ready, by present Conference, to enter upon Consideration of your Lordship's First Proposition concerning Religion, and shall desire to receive or give Satisfaction, whereby we may be of One Mind in that Argument; and, for the better entering into this Debate, we desire to know whether, in respect of Alterations mentioned in the Third Proposition to be made in the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy, you would have this individual Bill passed or not.

"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.

"Exam'r,

"John Thurloe Secretary.
"Daniel Earle Secretary.
"Wm. Dugdale.
"Nic. Oudart."

Parliament's Commissioners desire the One with the King may be passed;

"3d February, 1644.

"We desire the Bill for the utter abolishing of Episcopacy, &c. which now remains with His Majesty, may be passed without Prejudice to us, to insist upon the Alterations mentioned in the Third Proposition; and we are ready to give your Lordships a present Conference upon the First Proposition concerning Religion, according to your Desire.

"Exam'r,

"John Thurloe Secretary.
"Daniell Earle Secretary."

and desire the King's Commissioners Answer about it.

"3d February, 1644.

"We desire your Lordships Answer to our Demands upon the Propositions for Religion; and, in the First Place, to the Bill for abolishing of Episcopacy, which hath been so much debated, that, upon the expiring of the First Three Days appointed to treat concerning Religion, we may be able to return such an Account to the Parliaments of both Kingdoms, as may give them Hopes of a happy Progress in this Treaty.

"Exam'r,

"John Thurloe Secretary.
"Daniel Earle Secretary."

They will give an Answer on the next Day appointed for treating concerning Religion.

"3d February, 1644.

"We conceive we offered so weighty Doubts and Considerations to your Lordships in this Day's Debate, concerning several Parts in the Bill for abolishing Episcopacy (your Lordships having confined and limited our Debate to that individual Bill as it is now penned, not to the Consideration of abolishing Episcopacy in general), that your Lordships cannot expect a positive Answer from us now, being after Eleven a Clock at Night, touching that Bill; and we shall be ready, by the next Day assigned for the Treaty upon this Argument, to deliver our Opinions to your Lordships; the which we shall be then the better able to do, when we have found, by the Progress in our other Debates, how far a blessed and happy Peace is like to be advanced, by our endeavouring to give your Lordships Satisfaction in this Particular.

"By Command of His Majesty's Commissioners.

"Exam'r,

"John Thurloe Secretary.
"Daniell Earle Secretary.
"Wm. Dugdale.
"Nic. Oudart."

King's Commission, authorizing His Commissioners, or any Ten of them, to treat with the Parliament's Commissioners.

"CHARLES R.

"Whereas certain Propositions were sent unto Us, from the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westm. and from the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland, which were brought unto Us at Oxford, in November last, by the Earl of Denbigh and others; and, upon Our Answers, Messages, and Propositions to them, and their Returns to Us, it is now agreed, that there shall be a Treaty for a safe and well-grounded Peace, to begin at Uxbridge, on Thursday the Thirtieth of this Instant January, as by the said Propositions, Answers, Messages, and Returns, in Writing, may more fully appear; We do therefore hereby appoint, assign, and constitute, James Duke of Richmond and Lenox, Wm. Marquis of Hertford, Thomas Earl of Southampton, Henry Earl of Kingston, Francis Earl of Chichester, Francis Lord Seymor, Arthur Lord Capell, Christopher Lord. Hatton, John Lord Culpepper, Sir Edward Nicholas Knight One of Our Principal Secretaries of State, Sir Edward Hide Knight Chancellor and Under Treasurer of Our Exchequer, Sir Richard Lane Knight Chief Baron of Our said Exchequer, Sir Thomas Gardiner, Sir Orlando Bridgman, Mr. John Ashburnham, and Mr. Jeffery Palmer (together with Dr. Richard Steward upon the Propositions concerning Religion), to be Our Commissioners touching the Premises; and do hereby give unto them, and any Ten or more of them, full Power and Authority to meet, and on Our Part to treat, with Algernone Earl of Northumberland, Phillip Earl of Pembroke and Mountgom'y, Wm. Earl of Salisbury, Bazill Earl of Denbigh, Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman, Denzill Hollis, William Pierrepont, Esquires, Sir Henry Vane the Younger Knight, Oliver St. John, Bulstrode Whitlocke, John Crewe, and Edmond Prideaux, Esquires, for the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westm.; and John Earl of Loudoune Lord Chancellor of Scotland, Archibald Marquis of Argile, John Lord Maytland, John Lord Balmerino, Sir Archibald Johnston, Sir Charles Erskyn, George Dundas, Sir John Smith, Mr. Hugh Kennedy, and Mr. Rob't Barclay, for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland (together with Mr. Alexander Henderson upon the Propositions concerning Religion), or with any Ten or more of them, upon and touching the Matters contained in the said Propositions, Answers, and Messages, or any other, and according to the Manner and Agreement therein specified, or otherwise, as they or any Ten of them shall think fit; and to take all the Premises into their serious Considerations, and to compose, conclude, and end, all Differences arising thereupon, or otherwise, as they, or any Ten or more of them, in their Wisdoms shall think fit; and, upon the whole Matter, to conclude a safe and well-grounded Peace, if they can: And whatsoever they, or any Ten or more of them, shall do in the Premises, We do by these Presents ratify and confirm the same.

"Given at Our Court at Oxford, the Eight and Twentieth Day of January, in the Twentieth Year of Our Reign.

"By His Majesty's Command

"Exam'r,

"Edw. Nicholas.
"John Thurloe Secretary.
"Daniel Earle Secretary."

Letter from the Commissioners, about the Propositions for Church Government.

"For the Right Honourable the Lord Grey of Werke, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"In the Papers we sent this Morning concerning Congregational Assemblies, &c. you will perceive by this inclosed (which was what we spake at the Conference) the Mistakes of the Persons appointed by His Majesty to treat with us. We did not deliver any Answer to that Paper in Writing; neither shall do to this, but by your Commands; only were willing to confer with them, to save Time as much as possibly we could.

"Your Lordship's "Humble and faithful Servants,

Uxbridge, Feb. 3, 1644.

"A. Northumberland.
Pembrooke & Mount.
"Salisbury.
B. Denbigh."

"3 Februarii, 1644.

"The Congregational Assemblies for Government consist of the Ministers and Ruling Elders of that Congregation.

"The Classical Assemblies are made up out of many of the Congregational Assemblies.

"Provincial Assemblies are made up out of the Ministers and Ruling Elders within the several Classes of the Province.

"National Assemblies are made up of Ministers, Ruling Elders, and other fit Persons, chosen out of the several Provinces of that Nation."

Footnotes

* Origin. are.