House of Lords Journal Volume 7
12 May 1645

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 12 May 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 366-369. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33307 Date accessed: 18 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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Contents

DIE Lunæ, 12 die Maii.
Mayor of Canterbury & al. to present to the Vacancies in the Hospitals of St. John and St. Nicholas Ilarbledowne. Two Pieces of Ordnance, removed from Sudbury, to be carried back there. Declaration to be sent to The States General and Provincial. Message to the H. C. to expedite Ly Hotham's Petition; for an Answer about Sir II. L'Estrange's; with Lady Knollis's; and for Mr. Peake to be Steward of Dover Castle. Lady Joan Drake's and Sir F. Drake's Petitions. E. of Carlisle's Creditors Petition. Berkley & al. versus Winthorpe & al. Message from the H. C. to sit a while. Answer. Report concerning the Reversal of Decrees of Inferior Courts. Walsingham and Baker's Cause. Message from the H.C. with Names of Officers to command Forces, &c. with Committees Names for carrying on the War in several Associations; for the Commissioners of the Great Seal and Master of the Rolls to continue for a Time; for the Aldermen of York to be restored to their Infranchisement; and to sit a while. Answer. Message from the H. C. with Names of Governors of Garrisons, and Commanders of Forces. Answer. E. of Suff. to export Horses. Ridgley and Haughton sent for, for arresting Townshend, the E. of Denbigh's Servant. Letter from the Committee at York, that the Aldermen, &c. there, were sequestered for their Proceedings before the Surrender of the Place. Declaration of the Generals, at the Taking of York, that they could not set aside the Ordinance for Sequestrations. Latham & al. E. of Carlisle's Creditors, Petition that they may proceed in their Suit against him. Adjourn. Footnotes

DIE Lunæ, 12 die Maii.

PRAYERS.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Essex.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Kent.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Ds. North.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Bruce.

Mayor of Canterbury & al. to present to the Vacancies in the Hospitals of St. John and St. Nicholas Ilarbledowne.

Whereas several Places in the Hospital of St. John in the City of Canterbury, and of St. Nicholas at Harbledowne near the same City, were formerly, according to the several Foundations of the said Hospitals, in the Disposition of the Archbishops of Canterbury for the Time being: It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament, That the Mayor of Canterbury for the Time being, Sir Wm. Man, and Doctor Jackson, or any Two of them, shall dispose of all such Places in the said Hospitals unto such poor People as they shall think fittest for the same, until the Pleasure of this (fn. *) House be further known; and this Order to be a sufficient Authority to the said Mayor of Canterbury for the Time being, Sir Wm. Man, and Doctor Jackson, in that Behalf.

Next, a Letter was read, directed thus:

Two Pieces of Ordnance, removed from Sudbury, to be carried back there.

"To the Right Honourable the Lord Gray of Warke. These, present.

"Right Honourable,

"We are informed, that, at your Lordship's First Marching to Reading, the Town of Sudbury in this County of Suff. sent Two Pieces of Ordnance to Cambridge, upon a sudden Alarum there by Captain Fothergill's Foot Company, which Two Pieces your Honour was pleased to give Directions to be carried to The Leaguer at Reading; but, after the Surrender of Reading, the Train of Artillery being too heavy, they, with other Pieces, were sent to Windsor Castle, where they now remain; we therefore humbly beseech your Honour, that you will be pleased to be a Means to help the Town of Sudbury to them again, or some other Field Pieces that may be useful for the Posture of Defence. And so we rest

"Your humble devoted Servants,

Bury, 6 Maii, 1645.

Maurice Barrowe.
John Rous.
Tho. Blosse.
Edm. Harvey.
Rob't Brewster.
Tho. Chaplin."

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the same Pieces shall be restored and delivered to Captain Fothergills, for the Use of the said Town of Sudbury.

Declaration to be sent to The States General and Provincial.

Next, the Declaration of both Houses, to be sent to The States of the United Provinces, was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Also the Votes brought from the House of Commons were read, as follow:

"Resolved, That this Declaration shall be sent to The States Provinciall, as well as to The States Generall."

Agreed to.

"Resolved, That this Declaration shall be sent to The States Generall in English and French."

Agreed to.

"Resolved, That the Covenant mentioned in the Declaration shall be sent in English and French".

Agreed to.

"Resolved, That the Declaration be so fitted, as to make it proper to be sent to The States Provinciall."

Agreed to.

Ordered, That Mr. Weckherlin shall translate this Declaration into French.

Message to the H. C. to expedite Ly Hotham's Petition;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath:

1. To desire Expedition in the Petition of the Lady Hotham, formerly sent down.

for an Answer about Sir II. L'Estrange's;

2. To desire an Answer concerning Sir Hamond L'Srange's Petition.

with Lady Knollis's;

3. To deliver the Lady Knowlis' Petition to them, and desire their Concurrence therein.

and for Mr. Peake to be Steward of Dover Castle.

4. To desire their Concurrence, that Mr. Peake may be made Steward of Dover Castle.

Next, were read Two Petitions:

Lady Joan Drake's and Sir F. Drake's Petitions.

1. The Petition of the Lady Jone Drake, of Buckland, in the County of Devon; setting forth her great Losses sustained by the Enemy, and desires some Maintenance for herself and her Children.

2. The Petition of Sir Francis Drake, of the County of Devon, Baronet, shewing what great Losses he hath sustained by the Enemy, desiring some Course may be taken for his future Subsistence.

Ordered, That the aforesaid Two Petitions shall be recommended to the House of Commons.

E. of Carlisle's Creditors Petition.

The Petition of the Creditors of the Earl of Carlile was read; and Ordered, That the Earl of Carlile is to have a Copy of the said Petition, and be desired to return his Answer to this House by this Day Sevennight.

(Here enter the Petition.)

Berkley & al. versus Winthorpe & al.

The Petition of Steven Wentroppe and Joseph Weld, was read: And it is Ordered, That the said Petition shall be shewed Alderman Berkley, Henry St. John, and John de Bayley, who (fn. *) are to return their Answer to this House within Ten Days.

Message from the H. C. to sit a while.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye, &c.

To desire this House would please to sit a while, for they have Business of Importance to acquaint their Lordships with.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will sit a while, as is desired.

Report concerning the Reversal of Decrees of Inferior Courts.

The Lord North reported from the Committee of Privileges, "That they find that the Proceedings by Way of Bill in this House hath not been used for many Hundred Years, and will be very long and tedious for the Subject; and that Petitions according to ancient Precedent are the Way that hath (fn. *) been most frequently used; and the Defendant is to put in his Answer, and Witnesses to be examined on both Sides."

Walsingham and Baker's Cause.

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Cause between Sir Tho. Walfingham and Sir John Baker shall be heard, by Counsel on all Sides, at this Bar, the 24th Day of this Instant May, upon the Matter of the Petitions depending in this House; and hereof all Parties whom it concerns are to have Notice herein, to prepare themselves accordingly.

Message from the H.C. with Names of Officers to command Forces, &c. with Committees Names for carrying on the War in several Associations; for the Commissioners of the Great Seal and Master of the Rolls to continue for a Time;

A Message was brought up from the House of Commons, by Sir John Evelyn Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Particulars:

1. That Sir Wm. Brereton shall continue in the Command and Employment he now has under the Parliament for Forty Days longer; notwithstanding the former Ordinance, that discharges the Members of either House from any Command or Office, Military or Civil.

Agreed to.

2. That, at Forty Days End, Colonel Jones shall have Sir Wm. Brereton's Regiment of Horse.

Agreed to.

3. That Major Louthian shall, at Forty Days End, have Sir Wm. Brereton's Regiment of Foot.

Agreed to.

4. Sir George Booth Knight and Baronet, Sir Wm. Brereton Baronet, Colonel George Booth, Colonel Henry Brooke, Colonel Rob't Ducking field, Colonel John Lee, the Governor of Namptwich for the Time being: These, or any Three of them, are, at the End of Forty Days, to order and direct the carrying on of the War within the County of Chester; and to govern the Forces now under the Command of Sir Wm. Brereton, until the Houses shall take further Order.

Agreed to.

5. That Captain Stone shall have the Command of Eccleshall Castle.

Respited.

6. That the Commissioners of the Great Seal shall continue until Six Days after the End of the next Term.

Agreed to.

7. That the Keeper or Master of the Rolls shall continue his Commission for hearing of Causes until Six Days after the next Term.

Agreed to.

8. That Sir Thomas Middleton shall continue in the Command and Employment he now hath under the Parliament for Forty Days longer; notwithstanding the former Ordinance, that discharges the Members of either House from any Command, Military or Civil.

Agreed to.

9. That Colonel Mitton shall succeed Sir Thomas Middleton in the Command he now hath, at the End of Forty Days, to be Ordered and directed by such Committees as shall be appointed by both Houses.

Agreed to.

10. That Sir John Price shall continue in the Command and Employment he now has under the Parliament; notwithstanding the former Ordinance, that discharges the Members of either House from any Command, Military or Civil.

Agreed to.

11. That the Lord Fairefax, Sir Thomas Fairefax, Sir Henry Vane Senior, Sir Henry Vane Junior, Mr. Francis Pierepont, Sir Mathew Bointon, Sir Wm. Constable, Mr. Rob't Fenwicke, Mr. Bryan Stapleton, Mr. Richard Barwise, Mr. Henry Darley, and Mr. Gilb't Millington, and the major Part of them, and any Three of them, do order and direct the carrying on of the War within the Northern Association; and to govern those Forces now under the Command of the Lord Fairefax within the said Association; and that this Committee shall continue for Forty Days after the Determination of the Lord Fairefax's Commission, unless the Houses take other Order in the mean Time.

Agreed to.

12. That Sir Wm. Armyn and Mr. Rob't Goodwin shall be added to this Committee, for ordering and carrying on the War within the Northern Association.

Agreed to.

13. That Lieutenant Colonel Poynes shall have the executive Part in Chief under this Committee.

Agreed to.

for the Aldermen of York to be restored to their Infranchisement;

14. Upon reading a Letter from Yorke, of 25th April, 1644, signed by Mr. Francis Pierrepont and Mr. Henry Darley, Committees at Yorke; in Pursuance of an Order of the House of Commons of 15 Martii, 1644; certifying, "That the Aldermen of the City of Yorke, and the Ministers of that City, committed and disfranchised upon some Information received thence, have done nothing since the Articles for Rendition of Yorke, that might make them liable to Punishment." (Here enter the Letter.)

It is this Day Ordered, That they be released from further Imprisonment; and that the Aldermen be restored to their Infranchisement.

Agreed.

and to sit a while.

15. To desire their Lordships would please to sit a little while longer.

Agreed to.

The Answer (fn. *) returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to all the Particulars now brought up; excepting the Vote concerning Captain Stone, concerning which this House will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from the H. C. with Names of Governors of Garrisons, and Commanders of Forces.

A Message was brought up from the House of Commons, by Denzell Holles Esquire;

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in these Particulars:

1. To let their Lordships know, that there was a Mistake in the Vote concerning Sir John Price, which was an Error of the Clerk; but the Vote of the House of Commons was, "That he should continue but for Forty Days, as the rest are passed," wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

Agreed to.

2. That Major Burgan shall be Governor of Coventry.

Agreed to.

3. That Major Burgan shall have the Command of that Regiment of Foot which was Colonel Barker's at Coventry, and shall be Colonel thereof.

Agreed to.

4. That Colonel John Bridges shall be Governor of the Town of Warwicke, as well as of the Castle.

Agreed to.

5. That Captain Lieutenant Henry Flower shall have the Command, and be Captain, of Colonel Barker's Troop of Horse in Coventry.

Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to all the Particulars now brought up, and do agree to the Amendment of the Mistake concerning Sir John Price.

E. of Suff. to export Horses.

Ordered, That the Earl of Suffolke shall have a Pass, to transport Horses, or Geldings, into Holland, Custom-free.

Ridgley and Haughton sent for, for arresting Townshend, the E. of Denbigh's Servant.

Ordered, That Edward Ridgley and John Haughton, Serjeants, shall be sent for, as Delinquents, for arresting Tho. Tounsende, the Servant of the Earl of Denbigh, though the Protection was shewed them; and that Mrs. Hylord, at whose (fn. *) Suit he was arrested, is hereby commanded to proceed no farther in the said Suit.

Letter from the Committee at York, that the Aldermen, &c. there, were sequestered for their Proceedings before the Surrender of the Place.

For the Honourable William Lenthall Esquire, Speaker of the Commons House in Parliament. These, present.

Mr. Speaker,

In Obedience to the Order of the Fifteenth of March last, whereby we are required to certify what Act of Delinquency the Aldermen of Yorke, and Ministers formerly sent up from hence, have committed, since the Articles for rendering this City, which may make them liable to Punishment, and by which Order they are to be released from Imprisonment, and the Aldermen restored to their Infranchisements, if no such Matter appear:

We do humbly certify, That we have only cast our Eyes upon their Acts of Delinquency which were committed before the Rendition of the City, which we have formerly certified; and we, who derive our Authority of sequestering Delinquents Estates from immediate Power and Ordinance of Parliament, did never think ourselves bound by those Articles, which were made and treated only by the Generals as Generals, in Reference to themselves and their Soldiers, but without any Meaning, as we conceive, to bind us, or any Civil Officer under us, in the Point of Sequestration; and accordingly it was so declared by the Generals and Treators at our coming into this City, a Copy of which Declaration is hereunto annexed; and therefore, to clear all Scruples which may be made, and to prevent Misconstructions of those Articles, we humbly desire the Order and Declaration of this Honourable House concerning them: And we humbly certify, That, in case the said Articles be allowed to hinder the Execution of the Ordinance for Sequestration, very little or no Benefit will arise to the State by that Way, for that all those considerable Estates of Delinquents in this County will thereby be freed; and if that Course be declined, some other present Way must be ordered by you, for the Supply of this Army, which otherwise will be in Danger to disband. All which we humbly leave to the Consideration of the Honourable House, and ourselves to remain

Your most humble Servants,

"Fran. Pierrepont.

"J. Darley."

Declaration of the Generals, at the Taking of York, that they could not set aside the Ordinance for Sequestrations.

"By the Articles of Agreement touching the Rendition of the City of Yorke, the Generals of the Armies have treated as Generals, in Reference only to themselves and their Soldiers; and it was not intended that any Ordinance of Parliament should be intrenched upon; but it was ever meant, that all such Persons and Estates as were subject to Sequestration might still be liable and subject thereto, notwithstanding any general Words in the Articles; and this the said Generals do declare under their Hands; and the Commissioners of Treaty do delare, that they did several Times during the Treaty express to the other Commissioners, that they had no Power to meddle with any Ordinance of Parliament, or to go further with the Treaty than the Bounds of the Army.

"A. Hepburne.

"Wm. Constable."

Fer. Fairefax.

E. Manchester.

Latham & al. E. of Carlisle's Creditors, Petition that they may proceed in their Suit against him.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords in Parliament assembled.

"The humble Petition of William Latham, and Eighty other Creditors of the late Earl of Carlisle;

Sheweth,

"That whereas your Petitioners, being much impoverished, by reason a great Part of their Estates was in Debts due from the said Earl of Carlile deceased, petitioned your Lordships in Parliament against unjust Proceedings in the Court of Wards, whereby an Injunction was gained, and your Petitioners stopped from their legal Course to recover their Debts out of the Estate specially assured by the said late Earl of Carlile for Payment of his Debts; whereupon, the 11th of February, 1640, by Consent of the now Earl and his Counsel, an Order was made by the Lords Committees, That the Cause should proceed in Chancery, and all Privileges of his Lordship and of the other Persons therein named should be waved; and accordingly the Cause proceeded: The now Earl put in several Answers, which Order was afterwards confirmed by your Lordships, 8 Junii, 1642; and your Petitioners proceeded, and have been at very great Charge to prove their just Debts long forborn, and to procure a Decree against the now Earl and others, before the Right Honourable the Lords and others Commissioners for the Great Seal, wherein the Earl of Carlile, by his Counsel, insisted upon his Privilege, and the same Matters now surmised in his Petition; whereof their Lordships were very tender, but made the Decree after several Days Debates, and reading all the said Orders, and considering the many Delays and Proceedings in the Cause; and, after a full Hearing, and after your Petitioners consented to admit the Deed mentioned in the Earl's Petition to be proved if it might have been produced, although he had not proved it; it appeared to their Lordships, that the Earl had Counsel and Solicitors, from Time to Time, that were acquainted with the Proceedings, and there was no Surprize at all, which appeared plainly upon several Examinations in Chancery; and, after all this Delay, upon Misinformation, there is an Order gained from your Lordships, upon the same Pretences, to allow the said Earl's Privilege, and thereby hinder your Petitioners from having any present Fruit of all the said Proceedings before your Lordships and in Chancery; the Residue of the Estate being beyond Seas, and chargeable with at least Twenty Thousand Pounds besides your Petitioners Debts, which are above Five and Twenty Thousand Pounds.

"Wherefore your Petitioners humble Suit to your Honours is, That your Lordships former Order, which confirms the Order of the Lords Committees, made by Consent, may stand; and that they may have the Liberty to proceed with the said Decree according to Law and Justice, which was so specially directed and proceeded in by the Earl's own Consent, who hath waved his Privilege, and the same confirmed by your Lordships Order as aforesaid.

"And your Petitioners shall pray, &c.

"William Latham.
Ga. Carpenter.
Henry Stephens.
Sam. Baker."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9a cras.

Footnotes

* Origin. Pleasure.
* Origin. is.
* Deest in Originali.
* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.