House of Lords Journal Volume 7
8 November 1645

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 7: 8 November 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 7: 1644 (1767-1830), pp. 681-685. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33441 Date accessed: 01 September 2014.


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DIE Saturni, 8 die Novembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Sallawey.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Rutland.
Comes Essex.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Lyncolne.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. North.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Howard.

Answer from the H. C.

Serjeant Ayliff and Dr. Heath return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, to all the Particulars sent Yesterday.

Woodhouse, from Plymouth.

This Day Kettleby Woodhouse was at this Bar, who came from Plymouth according to the Order of this House.

The Earl of Manchester reported from the Committee of both Kingdoms, Papers concerning South Wales; which were as follow:

Letter from the Committee of Pembroke, &c. giving an Account of the Reduction of that County, Cardigan, &c. and Monmouth Castle, &c.

"Our very good Lords and Gentlemen,

"Having been now a full Fortnight in these Parts, in Pursuance of the Instructions you were pleased to intrust us with, we shall now crave Leave to give you an Account of our Proceedings; the Reduction of the Three Counties of Pembrooke, Cardigan, and Carmarthen, the Taking of Chepstow, the Town of Monmouth and Castle, we having writ to some of our Friends of the House of Commons, cannot but think the Knowledge thereof is come unto you. In the disposing of the Inhabitants of these Parts to a good Understanding of and Subjection to the King and Parliament, God hath so prospered our Endeavours, that the principal Gentlemen of these Counties have framed and subscribed a Declaration to that Effect, as cordial and express as any (with Favour we conceive so) that you have had from the most confiding Counties. The Original going chearfully on for more Hands, we crave Leave to impart thus much unto you by this inclosed Transcript. And herein the Gentlemen of Brecon, by an Express with a Letter under the Hands of sundry of the best Rank amongst them, have declared their Concurrence. We have very good Hopes of the like from Radnor, who may not yet be so quick-handed, in regard they are more exposed to the Violence of the Enemy. By this, (fn. *) your Lordships, &c. may see the Constitution and Condition of the Six Shires of South Wales, and that of Monmouth. Yesterday, in Cardiffe Church, we observed the Parliament Fast (blessed be God for it), and intend the Monthly Continuance of it; for the more effectual Performance whereof, and Instruction of the People in the true Fear and Worship of God, it is much desired of all Hands, that some godly Ministers may speedily be sent into these Parts, the People being very tractable, and indeed far more than might reasonably be expected, living under such a prelatical, ignorant, and corrupted a Ministry, as by sad Account your Lordships, &c. will suddenly see. We crave Leave also to advertise you, that Mr. Thomas Herbert and Captain Potter, Two of your Commissioners for the Parliament Army, were here on Wednesday last, in their Way Westward, to try what Recruits of Horse and Provisions may be had in these Parts, wherein the Gentlemen were very desirous to do their uttermost; but to the former were not able to give any Assistance, the Country not breeding much, many taken away by the King's Forces, some perished in Service, and not a Competency remaining for the necessary Service of the Country: Provisions they have chearfully undertaken for, so far forth as the Country can possibly spare, and to send the same unto such Places and Parts as Sir (fn. †) Tho. Fairefax shall direct, as we have at large writ unto him.

"Being unwilling to give you more Trouble, by the Extent of these, than Necessity requires, we humbly take our Leaves, recommend you to the merciful Protection of our good God, and are perfectly

"Your Lordships, &c. most willing

"and most humble Servants,

Cardiff, the 30th of October, 1645.

"M. Oldisworth.
Tho. Carne.
Wm. Jones.
Phi. Jones. Jo. Herbert."

Next, the Declaration was read. (Here enter it.)

Ministers to be sent down into Wales.

Hereupon this House thought it fit that some Ministers should be sent down to them; and a Letter sent to them from both Houses, to encourage them to continue conformable to the Proceedings and Commands of the Parliament; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons desired herein.

Ld. Campden's Words against the E. of Rutland.

The House was informed, "That the Lord Viscount Campden desired the Lord Mountague to deliver a Message from him to the Earl of Rutland, "That it was in his Power to do him Prejudice, or a Mischief; and that he would do it, if he were provoked to it."

The Lord Viscount Campden was called to the Bar; and the Lord Mountague justified the Words before him: And then the Speaker asked him, "Whether he sent that Message, and what he meant by the Word ["Mischief"]?"

The Lord Viscount Campden did not deny the Effect of what the Lord Mountague witnessed; and by the Word ["Mischief"] he meant, "it may be a great Cause of Difference between him and the Earl of Rutland; because the Earl of Rutland, in his Petition, mentions that he hath suffered Damage to the Value of Twenty Thousand Pounds by him, and he must be forced to clear himself of it;" but (fn. *) he hath nothing to charge the Earl of Rutland with.

Upon this, the House declared the Earl of Rutland's Honour free from any Thing as appears against him.

Ld. Grey & al. and Mr. Finch & al.

Ordered, That the Cause between the Lord Grey, &c. against Mr. Fynch, &c. shall be put off till the 14th of December next.

Ordinance for Mr. Smith to be Prothonotary in Chancery.

Upon reading the Petition of Sam. Smyth; desiring, in regard of his continual Attendance upon the House of Peers, that he may have the Place of Prothonotary in the Chancery conferred upon him, which was in the Possession of Thomas Hussy, who hath forfeited the same, because he hath not taken the National Covenant according to the Ordinance of Parliament, as appeared by a Certificate of Mr. Scobell, One of the Registers of the Chancery."

It is Ordered, That the said Sam. Smyth be preferred to that Place: To this Purpose, an Ordinance was read, and approved of; and Ordered, That it be sent down to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.

Message to the H. C. with it; and the Letter and Declaration from South Wales;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath:

1. To deliver to them the Letter and Declaration of the Counties of South Wales; and desire Concurrence, that some Ministers may be sent down to them, and a Letter written from both Houses, to encourage them to continue conformable to the Orders and Commands of the Parliament.

2. To desire Concurrence in the Ordinance concerning Mr. Sam. Smyth.

and to remind them of Petitions formerly sent down.

3. To put them in Mind of the Lady Chaworth's Petition.

4. To put them in Mind of the Officers of the Army, concerning their Arrears.

5. To put them in Mind of the Earl of Stamford's Petition.

Ordinance for Ordination of Ministers.

The House was adjourned into a Committee, to consider of the Ordinance of the Ordination of Ministers; and, after Debate, the House was resumed.

And the Question was put, "Whether this Ordinance should pass, as it came from the House of Commons?" (Here enter it.)

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

"A Declaration of the Knights, Gentlemen, and Freeholders of the County of Glamorgan, the 25th of October, 1645.

Declaration of the Gentlemen of Glamorganshire, that they will adhere to the Parliament.

"Whereas it hath pleased Almighty God, of His infinite Goodness, to bless the weak Endeavours of the well-affected Gentry and Commons of this Coun ty, to free themselves from those over-mastering Powers and arbitrary Pressures they groaned under, whereof they have been desirous of a long Time to be freed, and now, by the Providence of God, are in some Measure restored to the Law and undoubted Liberties belonging to the free-born Subjects of this Kingdom; we have therefore thought ourselves bound to testify, before all the World, our most hearty and unfeigned Thankfulness unto Almighty God, for so great a Mercy extended towards us; and also our most humble and hearty Thanks unto that Supreme Wise Council of this Kingdom the Parliament, for their unparalleled and unwearied Care of the Public, and their particular Favour to this our County, in sending Captain Robert Melton, Admiral of the Irish Seas, and other Gentlemen since, to assist and countenance our Endeavours against the Violence of the Enemies of the Peace and Quietness of the Kingdom; and we do hereby declare, that albeit being formerly over-mastered by Forces so far; that we were not able to appear so ready as the Duty we owed to His Majesty and the Great Council required of us, yet our Affections ever sided and adhered to them; and our firm Resolution is, from henceforward, to hazard our Lives for their Preservation, who have so long adventured theirs for the Good and Welfare of the Kingdom, and no longer to be Lookers-on, but joint Labourers by the Direction and Protection of the Parliament in the happy establishing this Kingdom in a happy Peace, as far as our exhausted Abilities will extend, for the Preservation of the true Reformed Protestant Religion, His Majesty's Royal Person, Prosperity, and Dignity, the settling and preserving the Peace of the Three Kingdoms of England, Scotland, and Ireland, the Rights and Privileges of the Parliament, the Laws of the Land, with the Liberty and Property of the Subject, all which we will endeavour to maintain with the Hazard of our Lives; and this unfeigned Declaration we breathe from our Hearts, and testify under our Hands."

Col. Fielding's Engagement to return, if he cannot effect his Exchange.

"Whereas the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in the High Court of Parliament have Ordered, That a Pass shall be granted, by the Right Honourable the Lord Grey of Warke, Speaker (pro Tempore) of the House of Peers, to Colonel Richard Feildinge (now a Prisoner of War), to go to His Majesty, to endeavour the gaining of a fit Exchange for himself; whereupon I, the said Colonel Richard Feildinge, do hereby promise and engage myself, upon the Faith and Honour of a Gentleman and a Soldier, to the Right Honourable the Lord Grey of Warke, That I will (by the Assistance and Permission of God) either procure the Enlargement of such Person or Persons (now Prisoners with His Majesty) as both Houses of Parliament shall like and approve of, for my Exchange, and cause them to be sent to the City of London, or such other Place or Places as both Houses of Parliament shall appoint, or return to London, and yield my Body a Prisoner, within Forty Days next after the Date hereof; and that I will not, at any Time (until my Exchange be fully perfected), give any Intelligence, or join in Council with any, or do any Act or Thing whatsoever that shall or may be prejudicial to both or either Houses of Parliament, or any Forces or Garrisons under their Power or Command.

"In Testimony whereof, I have hereunto put my Hand and Seal, this Tenth Day of November, Anno Domini 1645.

"R. Feilding."

"An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, for the Ordination of Ministers.

Ordinance for the Ordination of Ministers.

"Whereas the Word Presbyter, that is to say, Elder, and the Word Bishop, do in the Scriptures intend and signify. One and the same Function, although the Title of Bishop hath been by corrupt Custom appropriated to One, and that unto him ascribed, and by him assumed, as in other Things, so in the Matter of Ordination that was not meet, which Ordination, notwithstanding, being performed by him, a Presbyter, joined with other Presbyters, we hold for Substance to be valid, and not to be disclaimed by any that have received it; and the Presbyters so ordained, being lawfully thereunto appointed and authorized, may ordain other Presbyters: And whereas it is also manifest, by the Word of God, that no Man ought to take upon him the Office of a Minister until he be lawfully called and ordained thereunto, and that the Work of Ordination, that is to say, an outward solemn Setting-apart of Persons for the Office of the Ministry in the Church by preaching Presbyters, is an Ordinance of Christ, and is to be performed with all due Care, Wisdom, Gravity, and Solemnity: It is Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, and by the Authority of the same (after Advice had with the Assembly of Divines now convened at Westm.), That the several and respective Classical Presbyteries, within their several and respective Bounds, may examine, approve, and ordain Presbyters, according to the Directory for Ordination, and Rules for Examination hereafter expressed; (that is to say,)

"1. First, That he that is to be ordained must address himself to the Presbytery, and bring with him a Testimonial of his taking the Covenant of the Three Kingdoms, of his Diligence and Proficiency in his Studies, what Degrees he hath taken in the University, and what hath been the Time of his Abode there, and withall of his Age, which is to be Twentyfour Years at least, but especially of his Life and Conversation.

"2. Secondly, The Presbytery shall proceed to enquire touching the Grace of God in him, and whether he be of such Holiness of Life as is requisite in a Minister of the Gospel, and to examine him touching his Learning and Sufficiency, and touching the Evidence of his Calling to the Holy Ministry, and in particular his fair and direct Calling to that Place to which he is designed.

"The Rules for Examination are these:

"1. That the Party examined be dealt with in a Brotherly Way, with Mildness of Spirit, and with special Respect to the Gravity, Modesty, and Quality of every one.

"2. Secondly, He shall be examined touching his Skill in the Original Tongues; and that Trial to be made by reading the Hebrewe and Greeke Testaments, and rendering some Portions of them into Latin; and Enquiry also shall be made after his other Learning, and whether he hath Skill in Logic and Philosophy.

"3. Thirdly, What Authors in Divinity he hath read, and is best acquainted with; and Trial shall be made of his Knowledge in the chief Grounds of Religion, and of his Ability to defend the Orthodox Doctrine contained in them against all unsound and erroneous Opinions, especially those of the present Age; of his Skill in the Sense and Meaning of such Places of Scripture as shall be proposed unto him in Cases of Conscience, and in the Chronology of Scripture and of the Ecclesiastical History.

"4. If he hath not before preached in Public with Approbation of such as are able to judge, he shall, at a competent Time assigned him, and before the Presbytery, expound such a Place of Scripture as shall be given him.

"5. He shall, in a competent Time, also frame a Discourse in Latin, upon such a Common Place, or Controversy in Divinity, as shall be assigned him; and exhibit to the Presbytery such Theses as express the Sum thereof, and maintain a Dispute upon them.

"6. He shall preach before the People; the Presbytery, or some of the Ministers of the Word appointed by them, being present.

"7. The Proportion of his Gifts, in relation to the Place unto which he is called, shall be considered.

"8. Besides the Trial of his Gifts in Preaching, he shall undergo an Examination in the Premises Two several Days, or more, if the Presbytery shall judge it necessary.

"3. Thirdly, After which, he, being approved, is to be sent to the Church, or other Place, where he is to serve (if it may be done with Safety and Conveniency), there to preach Three several Days, and to converse with the People, that they may have Trial of his Gifts for their Edification, and may have Time and Leisure to enquire into, and the better to know, his Life and Conversation.

"4. Fourthly, In the last of those Three Days appointed for the making known his Gifts in Preaching, there shall be sent from the Presbytery to the Congregation (if it may be done with Safety and Conveniency) a Public Instrument in Writing, which shall publicly be read before the People, and after affixed to the Church-door, to signify, such a Day, any Member or Members of the said Congregation, or any other Person or Persons whatsoever, or any of them, may put in, with all Christian Discretion and Meekness, what Exceptions they have against him; and if, upon the Day appointed, there be no just Exceptions against him, the Presbytery shall proceed to Ordination.

"5. Fifthly, Upon the Day appointed for Ordination (which is to be performed in that Church where he that is to be ordained is to serve, if it may be done with Safety and Conveniency), a solemn Fast shall be kept by the Congregation, that they may more earnestly join in Prayer to God, for a Blessing upon the Person and Labours of this His Servant, solemnly to be set apart to the Office of the Ministry, for their Good. The Presbytery shall come to the Place, or Four Ministers of the Word at the least shall be sent from the Presbytery, whereof One shall preach to the People concerning the Office and Duty of the Ministers of Christ, and how the People ought to esteem him for the Work's Sake.

"6. Sixthly, After the Sermon ended, the Minister which hath preached shall, in the Face of the Congregation, demand of him who is now to be ordained concerning his Faith in Christ Jesus, and his Persuasion of the Truth of the Reformed Religion according to the Scriptures; his sincere Intentions and Ends in desiring to enter into his Calling; his Resolution to be diligent in Prayer, Reading, Meditation, Preaching, ministering the Sacraments, and doing all Ministerial Duties towards his Charge; his Zeal and Faithfulness in maintaining the Truth of the Gospel, and Unity of the Church against Error and Schism; his Care that himself and Family may be unblameable, and Examples to the Flock; and his Resolution to continue in his Duty against all Trouble and Persecution.

"7. Seventhly, In all which having declared himself, professed his Willingness, and promised his Endeavours by the Help of God; the Presbytery, or the Ministers sent from them, shall solemnly set him apart to the Office and Work of the Ministry, laying their Hands on him, with a short Prayer or Blessing to this Effect:

"Thankfully acknowledging the great Mercy of God, in sending Jesus Christ for the Redemption of His People, and for his Ascension to the Right Hand of God The Father, and there pouring out His Spirit, and giving Gifts to Men, Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors, and Teachers, for the gathering and building up of His Church; and for fitting and inclining this Man to this great Work; to beseech Him to fill him with His Holy Spirit, whom in His Name we (fn. *) set apart to this Holy Service, to fulfil the Work of His Ministry in all Things, that he may both save himself and the People committed to his Charge.

"8. This, or the like Form of Prayer or Blessing, being ended, let the Minister who preached briefly exhort him, to consider the Greatness of his Office and Work, the Danger of Negligence both to himself and his People, the Blessing which will accompany his Faithfulness in this Life and that to come; withall let him exhort and charge the People, in the Name of God, willingly to receive and acknowledge him as the Minister of Christ, and to maintain, encourage, and assist him in all the Parts of his Office; and so by Prayer commending both him and his Flock to the Grace of God, after the Singing of a Psalm, let the Assembly be dismissed with a Blessing.

"9. Let such as are chosen or appointed for the Service of the Army or Navy, or Colleges, or other Charge, be ordained as abovesaid, in such Church as the Classical Presbytery to which they shall address themselves shall think fit; and such Alterations made by the Minister that ordaineth, from the Exhortation last before prescribed, as the Circumstances of Place and Person shall require.

"And be it further Ordained, by the said Lords and Commons, and by the Authority aforesaid, That every Person formerly ordained a Presbyter according to the Form of Ordination which hath been held in the Church of England, and is to be removed to another Charge, do bring the Presbytery where he is to be placed, a Testimonial of his Ordination, and of his Abilities and Conversation; whereupon his Fitness for that Place where he is to be removed shall be tried by his Preaching there, and (if it shall be judged necessary) by a further Examination; and so, without any new Ordination, he shall be admitted, if he be approved as fit for that Place; and if any Person ordained Minister in Scotland, or in any other Reformed Church, be designed to a Congregation in England, he is to bring from that Church to the Presbytery where he is to be placed, a sufficient Testimonial of his Ordination, of his Life and Conversation while he lived with them, and of the Causes of his Removal; and to undergo such a Trial of his Fitness and Sufficiency, and to have the same Course held with him in other Particulars, as is set down in the foregoing Rule and Provision touching the Examination and Admission of Persons formerly ordained in England.

"And it is further Ordained, That Records be carefully kept, by the Register to be nominated by the Presbytery, of the Names of the Persons ordained, with their Testimonial of the Time and Place of their Ordination, and of the Ministers who did ordain them, and of the Charge to which they are appointed; and that no Money or Gift of what Kind soever shall be received from the Person to be ordained, or from any on his Behalf, for Ordination, or aught else belonging to it, by the Presbytery, or any of them, or any appertaining to any of them, upon what Pretence soever, except to the Register, for the Entry, Instruments, and Testimonials of his Ordination, which shall not exceed the Sum of Ten Shillings for each Person ordained.

"And it is yet further Ordained, by the Authority aforesaid, That all Persons who shall be ordained Presbyters according to this Directory shall be for ever reputed and taken, to all Intents and Purposes, for lawful and sufficiently-authorized Ministers of the Church of England, and as capable of any Ministerial Employment in the Church, with the Rights and Profits belonging thereunto, as any other Presbyters whatsoever already ordained, or hereafter to be ordained; and that all Presbyters, who are hereby appointed and authorized to ordain, and shall (according to this present Directory) ordain any Presbyters, are hereby declared to perform an acceptable Service to this Church and Kingdom; and shall have the Protection of both Houses of Parliament for their Indemnity.

"Provided, That this Ordinance shall stand in Force for Twelve Months, and no longer; any Thing in this Ordinance contained to the contrary in any Wise notwithstanding."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 102, Monday next.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
Bis in Originali.
* Bis in Originali.
* Here let them impose their Hands upon his Head.