House of Lords Journal Volume 8
22 November 1645

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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3, 4, 5

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 22 November 1645', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 8: 1645-1647 (1767-1830), pp. 3-5. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33888 Date accessed: 31 July 2014.


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JOURNALS OF THE HOUSE of LORDS.

Anno 21 Caroli Regis, 1645.

Die Saturni, 22 die Novembris.

Prayers, by Mr. Warde.

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Essex.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Nottingham.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Kent.
Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Midd.
Comes Denbigh.
Ds. North.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Berckley.
Ds. Wharton.

Grove, a Prisoner to this House, ordered by the Speaker of the H. C. to be released.

The House was informed this Day, of "a Warrant, under the Hand of the Speaker of the House of Commons, to will and require the Gentleman Usher of this House to deliver forthwith Thomas Grove, a Prisoner in his Custody, at Liberty; he being a Servant to Mr. Gurdon, a Member of the House of Commons."

This Thomas Grove being committed to the Custody of the Gentleman Usher of this House by Order of this House, the House apprehended this Warrant to be a Violation of the Privileges of this House; and Resolved, To have a Conference with the House of Commons about it; and these Lords following were nominated, to consider and draw up what is fit to offer at this Conference:

Committee to prepare Heads for a Conference about it.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Manchester.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
L. North.
L. Robertes.

Message to the H. C. for it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath:

To desire a Conference, in the Painted Chamber, concerning one Grove, a Prisoner under the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod.

The Speaker acquainted this House with a Letter he hath received from Prince Rupert; which was read, as follows:

Letter from Prince Rupert, with Proposals in Behalf of himself, his Brother, and some Officers under him.

My Lords and Gentlemen,

Whereas I made my former Address unto you by Lieutenant Colonel Osborne, who had Instructions to deliver what were my farther Desires; and conceiving that perhaps the Manner of the Representation might not be so acceptable, I have now made this immediate Application unto you, and have sent these my Desires, from which I conceive myself in Honour ought not to recede, being Demands suitable to a Person of my Quality, and would not be denied to the meanest General in other Nations: And for the Particular of our coming to London (mine own and their Conveniencies necessarily inducing us thereunto), I shall engage my Honour, for myself and such as shall accompany me, that we shall do nothing prejudicial to the Parliament; so, in Expectation of your Answer, I rest

Worcester, Novemb. 17, 1645.

"Your Friend and Servant,

Rupert.

For the Right Honourable the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament. These, at Westm.

The Proposals.

The Desires of his Highness Prince Rupert, Prince Maurice, Lord Hawley, Lord Gerrard, Sir Ric'd Wyllis, and such other Gentlemen and Commanders as are now with them.

1. To have an ample and free Pass, for themselves and their Retinues, with their Horses, and all other necessary Accommodations, to go beyond the Seas, or else to stay in such Parts of the Kingdom as they shall think fit, they being no Ways active against the Parliament, by bearing of Arms, or otherwise.

2. That there be a convenient Caution given, and Course taken, that neither they, nor any of their Retinues, be questioned by the Parliament, for any Act or Thing done by them, from before the Beginning of this War; and that they may be restored to the same Condition they were in before it began, and have all Sequestrations taken off; and that they may live quietly at their Houses, without Molestation, if any of them shall make that Election.

3. That no Oath be tendered or imposed upon any of them, or further Engagement, and that Liberty may be granted to such as shall desire it, to pass to London, to settle then Businesses for their Conveniencies Abroad

4. That a List be taken, by an Officer appointed by the Parliament, of all such Persons Names as shall be intended or included in these Demands, and that it may be done at Banbury

To these Demands they do desire there may be an Answer returned, and, if it be possible or convenient, that it may be by the 27th of this November, 1645

Rupert

Answer to them

The Sense of this House upon these was, "That this House thinks it not fit to recede from what was formerly agreed upon by both Houses of Parliament, and sent by then Messenger Mr. Edward Pickering If this be not accepted of, this House doth think fit to recall the said Mr. Pykering within Fourteen Days"

Message from the H C with an Ordinance

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Sam Browne, &c

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in an Ordinance for disabling the Judges that have deserted the Parliament

Read Twice

The Answer returned was

Answer

That this House will take this Message into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own

L. Gorge a Pass to France

Ordered, That the Lord Gorge, with Four Servants, shall have a Pass, to transport himself into France

Lieut of The Tower sent for, for not allowing the M of Winchester & Servant to attend him

The House being informed, as a Complaint of the Marquis of Winchester, "That his Servant is not permitted to give his Attendance upon him in The Tower, according to the Order of this House"

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Lieutenant of The Tower shall attend this House on Monday Morning next, to shew Cause why the Marquis of Winchester's Servant is not permitted to attend him according to the Order of this House.

Heads for a Conference about Grove

The Lord North reported from the Committee, what they have conceived fit to be offered at the next Conference with the House of Commons, concerning Grove, which was read, and Agreed to

This Conference is desired, that the good Corre spondency between both Houses may be continued

Whereas a Warrant is granted, under the Hand of the Speaker of the House of Commons, directed to the Gentleman Usher of this House, in hæc verba, (videlicet,)

By virtue of an Order this Day made by the Commons assembled in Parliament, these are to will and require you, upon Sight hereof, forthwith to release the Body of Thomas Grove (Servant to Mr Gourdon, a Member of this House, and by him avowed to be his Servant), who is now in your Custody, from any further Restraint, his Detention being contrary to the Privilege of Parliament And this shall be your sufficient Warrant Dated the 22 of November, 1645

"Wm Lenthall, Speaker

"To Mr Thayne, Gentleman Usher of the House of Peers, his Deputy, or Under Officer

Which Warrant being directed to the Gentleman Usher of this House, under the Hand of the Speaker of that House, without either Message or Conference with this House, the Lords do conceive it to be a Breach of their Privileges

The Lords shall always be ready to maintain all your just Privileges as their own, only they desire a due Proceeding mutually between us in the Manage ment of it"

Message from the H C with an Ordinance, and concerning those about Plymouth and Artificers

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr Tate, &c

To let their Lordships know, that they agree to the Alterations in the Ordinance concerning the Five Thousand Pounds for Plymouth (Here enter it)

2. To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for the City of Bristoll

3. That, at the next Conference, the House of Commons may communicate to this House some Things concerning the Alterations sent down to them in the Ordinance concerning Artificers.

Agreed to

The Answer returned was

Answer

That this House agrees to have imparted to them, at the next Conference, the Alterations concerning the Ordinance for the Artificers To the rest, this House will take them into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own

Message from the H C to proceed against of Stamford,

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Evelyn Knight, &c

1. To desire that their Lordships would proceed against the Earl of Samford, upon the Impeachment of the House of Commons

with Name of High Sheriffs for Counties

2. To desire that Rivett Eldred Baronet may be High Sheriff of the County of Suffolke, and that the Com missioners of the Great Seal do grant him a Patent for Sheriff, in Form usual, accordingly

Agreed to

3. That Frances Clynton, alias Fyenis, may be High Sheriff of the County of Lyncolne, and that the Com missioners of the Great Seal do grant him a Patent for Sheriff, in Form usual, accordingly

Agreed to

4. That Edward Clarke Esquire may be High Sheriff of the County of Oxon, and that the Commissioners of the Great Seal do grant him a Patent for Sheriff, in Form usual, accordingly

Respited

The Answer returned was

Answer

That this House will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, concerning the Earl of Stamford's Business, and Mr Clarke to be High Sheriff of the County of Oxon To the rest of the Particulars, this House agrees

Perkin F of Essex a Servant, released

This Day Will Perkins was brought to the Bar, by a Habeas Corpus, and discharged, he being a Servant of the Earl of Essex

Servants of the Kings Children freed from Arrests

Ordered, That the Servants and Officers belonging to (fn. †) the King's Children shall be freed from all Arrests for Debt, until both Houses of Parliament do take Cause to satisfy and pay them then Wages and Arrears already due The Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein

Answer from the H C

Dr Aylett and Dr Heath return with this Answer from the House of Commons

That they will take the Paper reported Yesterday from the House of Commons into Consideration, and send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, and that they will give a Conference presently, as is desired, concerning Grove

Message to the H C about the Servants of the King s Children, and with Prince Rupert s Letter

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr Aylett and Dr Heath

To desire their Concurrence in the Order concerning the Servants and Officers of the King's Children

2. To deliver the Letter and Desires of Prince Rupert to them, with the Sense of this House thereupon, and to desire Concurrence therein

The House went to the Conference with the House of Commons

Ordinance for 5000£ to Wright and Lenthall for Plymouth

Whereas Nathan Wright and Francis Lenthall, of London, Merchants, are, by several Ordinances of Parliament in that Behalf made and provided, appointed to collect, receive, and take, certain Duties, imposed upon Merchandize by Authority of Parliament, to be employed for and about the Defence of the Town and Port of Plymouth, Island of St Nicholas, and Town of Poole, Lyme Regis, and Places adjacent, and whereas, by another Order of both Houses of Parliament, the said Nathan Wright and Francis Lenthall are appointed Treasurers also of the said Sums of Money so collected and received, and whereas the said Nathan Wright and Francis Lenthall, at the Instance and Request of the Lords and Com mons appointed for the Safety of those Places, have lent and advanced, for the Supply of the urgent and pressing Occasions of the Commonwealth, and the Parts aforesaid, the Sum of Five Thousand Pounds, to be continued from the 29th of September Instant, until the 25th of March next following, to be re paid, with Interest, after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Cent for a Year, and to be secured by and accord ing to this Ordinance, with such Clauses as are herein expressed Be it therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled, and by Authority of the same, That the said Nathan Wright and Francis Lenthall, and the Survivor of them, his or then Execu ors or Assigns, shall be Collectors and Treasurers of the aforesaid Duties and Sums of Money, to be levied and received as aforesaid, until the said Five Thousand Pounds, with Interest as afore said, and Charges (by this Ordinance allowed), be fully re paid, according to the true Intent and Meaning hereof, nevertheless the said Collectors and Treasurers shall, from Time to Time, pay and dispose of all such Sums of Money as shall be received before the 25th of March aforesaid, by virtue of the aforesaid Ordinances (Charges and Allowances deducted), in such Manner as the said Committee, or any Seven of them, whereof Two to be Lords, under their Hands, shall direct, and upon the said 25th of March, or within Ten Days after, shall tender and give unto the said Committee a true and perfect Accompt, in Writing, and what shall be then remaining in their Hands (Interest and Allowance deducted) shall be issued and paid according to the Directions of the said Committee as aforesaid, and the said Treasurers, or the Survivor of them, his or their Executors or Assigns, shall, upon the 25th Day of June next, or within Ten Days then next after, make another Accompt, in like Manner, of all such Monies as shall be collected and come to their Hands, from and after the said 25th of March, until the said 25th of June, and shall retain in their Hands so much as shall be by them collected, first, towards Payment of their Charge, and Interest after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Centum, and afterwards of so much of their Principal as the Receipt will amount unto, which shall be supplied and made up out of such Monies as shall become due and payable from and after the 25th Day of June aforesaid, and in case any Surplusage remain in their Hands upon the said 25th of June, the same to be paid and disposed according to the former Directions, and the said Treasurers shall, at the End of every Three Months successively after, give an Accompt unto the aforesaid Committee, and, after Satisfaction of the said Five Thousand Pounds, together with Interest and Charges, shall, from Time to Time, pay the whole Residue and Remainder of their Receipts, as the said Committee, or any Seven of them, whereof Two to be Lords, shall appoint as aforesaid And be it further Ordained, That the said Committee, or any Seven of them as afore said, shall audit and examine the Accompts of the aforesaid Treasurers Nathan Wright and Francis Lerthall, for all Monies, as well received as paid, for the Time past as for the Time to come, and whatsoever shall be approved and allowed by the said Committee, or any Seven of them as aforesaid, under their Hands, shall be a sufficient Discharge to and for the said Collectors and Treasurers, then Heirs, Executors, and Administrators, without any further Accompt or Reckoning to be made or given to any other Person or Persons whatsoever, any Order or Ordinance of both or either Houses of Parliament to the contrary notwithstanding And it is also Ordained, That the said Treasurers, Nathan Wright and Francis Lenthall, for and towards the Charges of the aforesaid Collections, be allowed, and shall detain in their said Accompts, Six Pence in the Pound, for all the Charges of the Collections, Treasurership, and otherwise, of the said Duty and Custom And be it further Ordained, That the said Collectors and Treasurers be secured and saved harmless by Authority of both Houses of Parliament, in what they shall do in Execution of the Premises Provided always, That as touching the Duty hereby imposed, there be no Deduction or Defalcation of Fifteen Pounds per Centum And be it further Ordained, That the Customers, Comptrollers, and other Officers whom it may concern, do take particular Notice of this Ordinance, who are to pass no Entry, until the said Duties levied and imposed by several Ordinances of Parliament for the Use and Purpose aforesaid, over and above the present and future Customs and Duties, be duly satisfied and paid to the said Collectors, or their Deputies, and signified under their Hands in Writing, according to the true Intent and Meaning of this present Ordinance"

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9a, Monday Morning next.

Footnotes

* Deest in originals.
* Origin sent
Deest in Originals