House of Lords Journal Volume 8
23 February 1646

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 23 February 1646', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 8: 1645-1647 (1767-1830), pp. 181-183. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=33964 Date accessed: 28 August 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, 23 die Februarii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Ash.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Bolingbrooke.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Stamford.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Essex.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Suffolke.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. North.

Preacher at the Fast.

The House being informed, "That Mr. Case is sick, and will not be able to preach before the Lords at the next Fast."

It is Ordered, That Mr. Ash be desired to supply his Place.

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax.

The Speaker acquainted the House with a Letter which he received of Sir Tho. Fairefax, (fn. *) which was read.

(Here enter it.)

Fleet to be sent to guard the West Coast.

Ordered, That this Letter be communicated to the House of Commons, with a Desire that some of the Navy may be presently sent out to the Guard of the Western Parts; and that Care may be (fn. *) taken for the providing Money for the Horse, and for Colonel Massie's Horse; and that it may (fn. *) be referred to the Committee of both Kingdoms, to take Care that the Forces of the King's in these Midland Parts may not come to prejudice the Western Parts while He prosecutes the Enemy in Cornwall.

Thanksgiving for the late Success.

Ordered, That Sunday next shall be kept as a Day of Thanksgiving for this great Success of the Army, in London, Westm. and within the Line of Communication, and in all Parishes within the Bill of Mortality; and Sunday come Fortnight within the rest of the Parts in the Power of the Parliament.

Letter of Thanks to be sent to Sir T. Fairfax.

Ordered, That the Speaker do write a Letter, as from this House, to Sir Tho. Fairefax, to give him Thanks for his great Care and Vigilancy; and to let him know, that this House hath taken into Consideration those Desires mentioned in his Letter.

Letters and Papers from the Scots Commissioners.

The Speaker acquainted this House with a Letter from the Scotch Commissioners; which (fn. †) was read, with Two other inclosed Papers. (Here enter it.)

"My Lord,

"We send herewith our Answere to the Paper of the House of Commons of the 12th of this Instant, whereof a Copy is inclosed; and, desiring you to present them to the House of Peeres, we remaine

"Your Lordship's

"Very affectionate Freinds

and humble Servants,

Worcester House, 20 Feb. 1646.

"J. Balmerino.

"Cha. Erskin.

"Hew Kennedy."

Papers between the H. C. and the Scots Commissioners.

Ordered, That this Business be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning; and that the Members of this House that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms (fn. *) do report to this House the Matter of Fact, whether the Scotch Paper of the 27 of January was sent to the House of Commons by the Committee of both Kingdoms, or whether from the Scotts Commissioners to the Speaker of the House of Commons; and whether the Answer of the House of Commons, of the 12 Feb. 1645, was sent to the Committee of both Kingdoms by the Members of both Houses of that Committee, or whether by a Messenger to the Scotts Commissioners from the Speaker of the House of Commons; and that there shall be a Search made what Proceedings of the like Nature hath been in this House.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page returned with this Answer to the Message sent on Saturday last to the House of Commons:

That they agree that the Committee for Foreign Affairs shall meet this Afternoon, to take the Paper of The States Ambassador into Consideration; and that the said Committee meet To-morrow in the Afternoon, upon the Spanish Ambassador's Paper: To all the rest of the Particulars, they will take them into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Preacher at the Fast.

Ordered, That Mr. Jenkins is desired to preach before the Lords on Wednesday, at the Fast; Mr. Ash being designed for another Place.

Message to the H. C. that L. Conway and Sir G. Helles may raise 3000 Men for Venice;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To deliver to them the Petition of the Lord Viscount Conway and Colonel Gervase Holles, with the Resolution of this House, That Three Thousand Men may be raised, for the Service of the State of Venice, so that good Security be given that the said Soldiers may be landed within the Territories of Venice, and that they be taken out of the Prisoners about this Town, and elsewhere within the Parliament's Quarters, wherein the Concurrence of the House of Commons be desired.

for a Fleet to guard the West Coast;

2. To deliver Sir Tho. Fairfax' Letter to the House of Commons; and to desire that the Ships appointed for the Summer's Guard, which are agreed unto by this House, and is now in the House of Commons, may be speeded, and Order given that they may be put to Sea.

about Money for Sir T. Fairfax and Gen. Massey;

That Money may be provided for the Forces under the Command of Sir Tho. Fairefax, and likewise for those belonging to Major General Massey.

for preventing the King's Forces about Oxford, &c. from molesting Sir T. Fairfax;

And that it be referred to the Committee of both Kingdoms, to take Care of those Forces that are about Oxford and in the Midland Parts of the Kingdom, so as the Forces of the King's Garrisons may not disturb or draw back any of the Forces of Sir Tho. Fairefax from his Designs in the West.

and for a Thanksgiving.

That the next Lord's-day be appointed for a Day of Thanksgiving, within the Line of Communication, for this good Success; and that Sunday come Fortnight be for the other Parts of the Kingdom.

Church Government.

Ordered, That the Business of Church Government shall be taken into Consideration on Thursday Morning next, the First Business.

Paper from the H. C. to the Scots Commissioners, about the Manner of their resenting the Aspersions said to be thrown on the Scots and their Army by Members of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"Paper of the House of Commons, 12 Febr. 1646/5;.

"Having considered your Lordships Paper of the 24th and 27th of January, we find therein many passionate Expressions, which relate to some Matters that have lately passed between your Lordships and the Members of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdoms: What may seem of personal Concernment therein, for the Ends expressed in your Lordships Paper, of pressing a good Correspondency between the Two Kingdoms, and the Persons employed by them, to join in Councils for the Good of both, we purposely pass by, as being not willing to enter into a Contest about such Matters; especially our Address at this present being not immediately to the Kingdom of Scotland itself, whereunto we intend shortly to send Commissioners of our own, with full Instructions to give them Satisfaction concerning this and all other Particulars: Only this we could have wished, that your Lordships Vindication of yourselves, the Scotts Army, and the Kingdom of Scotland, had been without any Reflections upon some Members of that Committee, who have done nothing but in Discharge of their Duties, and that with as much Respect to your Lordships and the Kingdom of Scotland as could be; and we could also wish that, in a Paper of this Kind, the Expressions and Designations of Things and Persons might be more clear, especially if there be an Intention that they should be communicated to others as well as to the Houses of Parliament, as we find that Paper of the 24th of January hath been: As concerning the Interest and Honour of the Kingdom of Scotland, we shall always be most tender of them; and we hope the many Testimonies and Pledges that we have given, and our Brethren of Scotland have taken from us, of our past, present, and future Thankfulness unto them, for their brotherly Assistance, will take away all Cause of Doubt or Fear from any, that they should be turned over to God only for their Reward hereafter; much less that they should be recompensed Evil for Good. We are likewise confident that our Brethren of Scotland will believe, that no such Informations from unknown Authors can be able to make any such Impression upon the Minds of the Houses of Parliament, as to produce any such Effect as is the Division of the Kingdoms, with all the tragical Consequences that may follow thereupon: Neither was there any such Weight put upon those Informations, but, upon the Earl of Lautherdall's Denial of the Matters therein suggested, they had vanished into nothing, had not your Lordships pleased to express so high a Resentment thereof; neither was what his Lordship had delivered by Word of Mouth (fn. *) might be entered in the Register of that Committee, which also, when excepted against, was no further insisted upon: What was done therein by the Members of that Committee, as we have approved, so, if the like Occasion should fall out hereafter, we could not direct them to a better Course than to communicate such Informations to the Committee of both Kingdoms, where, if there be Cause of Secrecy, they are under an Oath of Secrecy, and if any Thing concern the Kingdom of Scotland, their Commissioners are there present; and with this Particular concerning Robert Wright the Lord Lauderdaill was acquainted before-hand, and with the Intention of communicating thereof to that Committee, there being many other Things in the Letters that might be made Use of for the Public Service, whereunto his Lordship expressed no Dislike; nor could it be any Prejudice to your Lordships or the Kingdom of Scotland, but rather, on the other Side, it gave you a fair Opportunity, if you pleased, to clear such Mistakes as might beget any sinistrous Conceptions or Misapprehensions in the Minds of Men, concerning your Lordships, the Scotts Army, and the Kingdom of Scotland itself, from whom, if Things be rightly considered, those Members of the Committee, in communicating unto it those Informations, deserve as much Thanks for what they did therein as they have most justly received it from us. Concerning the Author of those Letters subscribed Robert Wright, and his Name, we can give your Lordships no farther Satisfaction than you have received already; but for the unknown Knight, we shall put that into a Way to give you Satisfaction in convenient Time; and if he, or any other, upon due Trial, shall be found an Incendiary, we shall readily bring him to condign Punishment; not doubting but that we shall likewise receive the like Justice from the Kingdom of Scotland, according to the Covenant and Treaty; which having set up to be the Witnesses between us, before God and Man, we shall always keep our Eyes fixed upon them, as the Land-marks whereby we are to steer our Course.

"H. Elsing, Cler. Parl. D. Com."

Scots Commissioners Answer to it.

Wee would not further have troubled the Honnorable Houses with this unpleasant Busines, but that wee finde it necessary to rectify some Mistakes in the Answere of the House of Commons to our Papers of the 24th and 27th of January. Had wee beene conscious to ourselves, to our Army, or Kingdome, of any such Guiltynes as the Letters read, or Informations mentioned, in the Committee of both Kingdomes, doe hould forth, wee might have beene ashamed, and had Reason to bee passionate against ourselves; but being confident in our owne Innocency and theirs, and considering to what an Height the Delations did arise, it can bee noe just Cause of Offence, that wee vindicate ourselves with the greater Earnestnes, and that our Expressions bee full of Hatred and Detestation of such Crimes, and of Passion and Indignation against the Authors and Contrivers: As for other personall Concernments or Reflection upon any of the Members of the Honnorable Committee, wee knowe none; only wee could have wished that Informations of soe high a Nature, and soe publique Concernment, had not bin kept upp for soe long a Tyme, but had bin freely and in a freindly Manner communicated unto us at the First Occasion, that wee might have cleered ourselves, and given Sattisfaction to the Honnorable Committee; and wee could alsoe wish that there may bee a Course taken against the spreadinge of such Lyes and Calumnyes throughout the Citty and Country, as these were with much Industry; or otherwise that there bee noe Offence taken that wee vindicate ourselves by all good Meanes, which wee did not till Seaven Dayes after, when the Citty was filled with the Noise thereof, which did meete us in every Place and Company. Wee desire to bee thankfull for the smalest Testimonyes given unto us, and receaved by us, for our brotherly Assistance; but wee doe not speake now of the Maintenance of our Army; what it hath bin, was formerly represented and may bee further considered in (fn. *) their owne Tyme: But when wee perceive our Integrity and Faithfullnes, which is more to us then all the Riches in England, to bee called in Question; when wee see Jealousyes sett on Foote, and fomented by evill Instruments, for drawing the Kingdomes into a Division, against that Union which of late was layd as a Foundation to soe many Blessings to both; when wee consider the Opposition which is made to the Settling of Religion, and Liberty permitted to all Sorts of Sects, the Contagion whereof may endanger the Purity of Religion and Unity of the Church of Scotland; and when wee remember the Sufferings and Losses of the Kingdome of Scotland at Home and here in this Cause, which doe exceede all our Expressions; wee must crave Leave, till the Lord bee pleased to dispose in annother Way upon the Second Causes, to expect our Reward from God only, who never recompenseth Evill for Good: And although wee doe wish that noe such Informations from knowne or unknowne Authors may bee able to make any such Impression upon the Mynde of the Houses of Parliament as to produce any such Effects as is the Devision of the Kingdomes, yet such bould Calumnyes, hearkened unto, make such an Impression as might begett Suspition and Jealousyes, which in their Nature come to noe lesse then that which is most to bee avoyded. Wee desire not any more to trouble the Honnorable Houses with the Debate that past in the Committee; but wee beleeve the Members of the Committee may remember, that Mr. Jermine his Letter to Digby was alleadged after the Earle of Lauderdaill had denyed the Matters contayned in the other Informations, and after the Motion of entering his Denyall upon Record; that the Recording of these Letters and the Denyall was urged by annother Member to bee recorded, upon this Reason, That Tyme might give Interpretation afterward; and that the Recording of them was layd aside, not upon any Unwillingnes or Exception of ours, but upon our Motion, That, if these Calumnyes were soe farre taken Notice of as to enter the Denyall of them upon Record, there might bee more recorded with them, especially our Desires to knowe the Authors. This wee conceave to have bein the true State of the Fact. Wee acknowledge wee had a faire Oppertunity to cleere Mistakes, which we did at that Tyme by Word, and were necessitated to doe since by Writing, against which wee hoped noe Exception should have bin taken; but that a Testimony of our vindicated Integrity should have bin retourned unto us from the Justice of the Honnorable Houses; wee are not soe unacquainted with the Mynde of the Parliament of Scotland, but that wee perfectly knowe, when you have sent your Commissioners into Scotland, you will finde that Kingdome of the same Judgment with us concerning the whole Busines: And therefore wee doe againe, in Name of that Kingdome, in all Earnestnes, desire that all Meanes may bee used for the Discovery of Robert Wright, wee haveinge as yet receavednoe Sattisfaction concerning him; and if he cannott bee found, that noe Informations against us bee receaved from such an infamous Libeller hereafter: And because the Knight soe often mentioned is knowne to some of the Members of the Honnorable House and Committee, our Desire is, That he may bee forthwith unbailed, and may have the Censure due unto his Deservings accordinge to the mutuall Covenant, then which wee desire noe more, and are confident wil bee done against such as transgresse in the like Kinde against the Commissioners of this Kingdome when they goe into Scotland.

Febr. 20th, 1646.

"By Comaund of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland.

"John Cheisley."

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
Origin. were.
* Origin. to.
* Sic.
* Origin the.