House of Lords Journal Volume 8
22 September 1646

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 22 September 1646', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 8: 1645-1647 (1767-1830), pp. 498-500. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=34105 Date accessed: 01 September 2014.


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DIE Martis, 22 Septembris.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrook.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Warwick.
Comes Northumberland.
Comes Suff.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Midd.
Comes Nottingham.
Viscount Say.
Comes Salisbury.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Lincolne.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. North.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Maynard.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Leech and Doctor Aylett returned Answer from the House of Commons:

That to the Order touching Captain Thomas, they do agree: (Here enter it.) And to the rest, they will send Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from thence, about the Classis for Lancashire.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Sir Walter Erle and others:

That the House of Commons have sent up a Division of several Classis for Com. Lancaster, and desire the Lords Concurrence.

and for a Conference about

Three Ordinances.

And that they desire a Conference touching the Ordinances concerning the Moiety of the Excise in the North and in the West; and that Ordinance touching Treasurers at War sent down to them with some Amendments.

Committee to consider of the Classis for Lancashire.

Lords Committees appointed by the House, to consider of the Division of the several Classis in the County of Lancaster; (videlicet,)

E. Kent.
E. Pembrooke.
E. Sarum.
E. Warwick.
E. Manchester.
L. Wharton.
L. Hunsdon.

Any Three to meet.

Earl of Worcester to be brought up with Convenience.

Ordered, &c. That the Gentleman Usher, or his Deputies, shall take into their Custody the Body of the Earl of Worcester, and bring him up in Safety unto the City of London, in a Horse-litter, or some other Way as he shall be able to endure the Journey; and that the Committee of the County of Monmouth, or the Commissioners left at Ragland Castle by Sir Thomas Fairefax, shall pay unto the said Gentleman Usher, or his Deputy, the Fees due to them and the rest of the Officers of this House, and also make a fit Allowance for the said Earl's Expences in his Journey up, according to his Quality and Condition; and that his Physician and Chirurgeon (if he have any) and such Servants as he shall desire (having Need of them) shall be permitted to come up with him: And herein special Care is to be taken.

Answer to the H. C.

Answer returned to the Messengers of the House of Commons:

That to the Ordinance touching the Classis, they will return an Answer by Messengers of their own; and that this House doth appoint a Conference presently, in the Painted Chamber, touching the Three Ordinances, as they desire.

Spanish Ambassador's Petition for Audience.

The Petition of the Spanish Ambassador, desiring "a Committee may be appointed to give him Audience."

Ordered, That the Committee of Foreign Affairs may meet, at Three of the Clock in the Afternoon To-morrow, in the Prince's Lodgings; and that the House of Commons be desired to appoint the Members of their House that are of that Committee.

A Message to be sent to the House of Commons to that Purpose.

Smith, Author of The Scots Dove, to be attached.

Report was made from the Committee of Foreign Affairs, touching The Scotts Dove.

Ordered, &c. That the Gentleman Usher, or his Deputy, shall bring George Smith, the Author of The Scotts Dove, before the Lords in Parliament, To-morrow Morning, by Ten of the Clock; and that One of the said Pamphlets shall be then presented unto their Lordships with him.

Sir Walter Devereux to be Viscount Hereford.

A Certificate from the Heralds, "That Sir Walter Devereux is to be stiled only Viscount Hereford," was brought into the House this Day.

Message from the H. C. with Votes about the King, and an Ordinance.

A Message from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hollis and others:

That the House of Commons have passed two Votes concerning the King, and desire the Lords Concurrence.

And likewise to an Ordinance to secure a Debt to Sir John Evelin, out of George Stroude's Estate.

One of the Votes was read; (videlicst,)

Vote for King's Person to be disposed of by the Houses.

"Resolved, &c. That the Person of the King shall be disposed of as both Houses of the Parliaments of England shall think fit."

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and this Vote was much debated.

And after this great Debate, the House was resumed.

And the Question was put, (videlicet,)

"Whether the Question for the Two Votes to pass as they were sent from the House of Commons shall be now put?"

And the Votes were even, Eleven and Eleven.

House to sit P. M. about it.

A Second Question was put, (videlicet,)

"As many as are of Opinion that the House shall sit this Afternoon, at Four of the Clock, to debate the Two Votes brought from the House of Commons, say "Content"; others, Not Content"?"

Passed in the Affirmative.

Answer to the H. C.

The Messengers from the House of Commons were called in; and answered, "That the Lords will send an Answer by Messengers of their own."

The Lords went to the Conference, as was desired by the House of Commons; and the House was adjourned, according to the Vote.

Spanish Ambassador's Petition for Audience.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled.

"Don Alonso De Cardenas, of the Council of His Catholic Majesty, and His Ambassador in England, doth represent unto your Honours, That, having a Business of great Importance to communicate and propound to the Parliament, which consisteth in being speedily heard; and therefore his Lordship doth desire that your Honours, without any Delay, would order a Committee to give him Audience; which his Lordship having above a Week past (fn. *) received by the Means of Sir Oliver Fleming Master of the Ceremonies, yet hath not obtained it, nor any Answer touching the same, by which may accrue a very great Prejudice to the Service of the King his Master, and Benefit of this Kingdom; his Lordship intreating that forthwith a Committee may be appointed to hear what his Lordship shall propound.

"Don Alonso De Cardena."

Adjourn.

Adjourned, 4 P. M.

Post Meridiem.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Northumberland.
Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Come Nottingham.
Comes Warwicke.
Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Suff.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Lincolne.
Comes Denbigh.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Barkely.

Vote for the King's Person to be disposed of by the Houses.

The Speaker declared to the House, "That the Lords were pleased to have the House adjourned to this Afternoon, to consider of the Votes brought up from the House of Commons touching the King."

The First Vote of the House of Commons, for the disposing of the King, was read, in hæc verba:

"Resolved, upon the Question,

"That the Person of the King shall be disposed of as both Houses of the Parliament of England shall think fit."

The Question was put,

"As many of your Lordships as are of Opinion that this Vote shall pass as it is brought up from the House of Commons, say "Content"; others, "Not Content"."

Passed in the Affirmative.

Protest against it.

These Lords following, before the putting of this Question, desired Leave of the House to enter their Dissent, if the Question should be carried against their Votes; and Leave was given them accordingly:

E. Lincolne.
E. Suff.
L. Barkley.
L. Willoughby.
L. Hunsdon.
L. Maynard.

The Second Vote, touching the King, and the Scotts Armies marching out of this Kingdom, was read, in hæc verba:

Consultation with the Scots about the King, not to retard the March of their Armies out of the Kingdom.

"Resolved, &c. That this House doth Declare, That whatsoever Conference, Consultation, or Debate, shall be with the Commissioners of Scotland, concerning the Disposal of the Person of the King, it shall not be understood to be any Capitulation in relation to the retarding of the March of the Scotts Armies and Forces out of the Kingdom, or of any Treaty between the Kingdoms concerning the same."

And the Question was put, (videlicet,)

"As many of your Lordships as are of Opinion that this Vote shall pass as it is brought up from the House of Commons, say "Content"; others, Not Content"."

Passed in the Affirmative.

Committee to consult with the Scots Commissioners about the Disposal of the King's Person.

Lords Committees, to meet with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to conser, consult, and debate, with the Commissioners of Scotland, concerning the Disposal of the Person of the King according to the Votes of both Houses, if it shall be desired by the Scotts Commissioners; and this to be communicated to the Scotts Commissioners by the Members of the Committee of both Kingdoms:

The Lords Names; (videlicet,)

E. Northumberland.
E. Kent.
E. Pembrooke.
E. Nottingham.
E. Suff.
E. Sarum.
E. Warwicke.
E. Denbigh.
E. Manchester.
E. Stamford.
Viscount Say & Seale.
L. Wharton.
L. Grey.
L. Howard.

Any Five, to meet with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons as abovesaid; and that any Member of this House that is not of the Committee may be present if he please.

Ly. Boys' Daughters & al. a Pass.

A Pass was granted to the Lady Boys' Three Daughters, Peter Mayer, One Man Servant, and a Maid Servant, into Holland.

Howard, a Pass to Holland.

A Pass was granted to Mr. Charles Howard, to go into Holland, with Two Servants.

Sir J. Evelyn's Ordinance.

An Ordinance from the House of Commons, for securing a Debt to Sir John Evelin, was read the First and Second Time, and committed to the whole House: To be the First Thing To-morrow Morning.

Message to the H. C. that the Lords agree to the Votes about the King's Person; and to appoint a Committee to meet with the Scots Commissioners about them.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Doctor Aylett and Mr. Doctor Heath:

1. That the Lords agree to the Votes as they were brought up on the 22th of September Instant; and have appointed a Committee of Fourteen, to confer, consult, and debate, with the Commissioners of Scotland, concerning the Disposal of the Person of the King; and desire that the House of Commons will appoint a proportionable Number of their House, to meet with their Committee, in the Painted Chamber, at what Time it shall be desired by the Scotts Commissioners: And this to be communicated to the Scotts Commissioners by the Members of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

and for Committees to give the Spanish Ambassador Audience.

2. That the Committee of Foreign Affairs are to meet To-morrow, at Three of the Clock, in the Afternoon, at Sir Abraham Williams's House, to give the Spanish Ambassador Audience; and that the Members of the House of Commons that are of that Committee do then meet.

Adjourn.

Adjourn, 10 To-morrow.

Footnotes

* Sic.