House of Lords Journal Volume 8
4 November 1646

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 4 November 1646', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 8: 1645-1647 (1767-1830), pp. 556-557. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=34129 Date accessed: 19 September 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, 4 die Novembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Warde.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Rutland.
L. Viscount Hereford.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Midd.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. North.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Hunsden.
Ds. Greye.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Willoughby.

Pakeman to be instituted to Harrow;

Ordered, That Sir Nath. Brent shall give Institution and Induction to Thomas Pakeman, to the Vicarage of Harrow on the Hill, in the County of Midd. presented thereunto by Mr. George Pitt; and this with a salvo Jure cujuscunque.

and Buirville to Little Mingham.

Ordered, That Sir Nath. Brent shall give Institution and Induction to James Buirville, to the Rectory of Little Mingham, in the County of Kent, having the Presentation under the Great Seal of England: This with a salvo Jure cujuscunque.

Ordinance for Sale of Bishops Lands.

Next, the Ordinance for the Sale of the Bishops Lands, was read the First Time.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer to the Message sent to the House of Commons:

1. That they agree to the Ordinance concerning the Lord Howard to have the Custody of the Lord Boteler.

(Here enter it.)

2. They agree to the Amendments in the Ordinance concerning the Committee and Treasurers for War.

(Here enter it.)

3. They agree to the Meeting of the Committee concerning the Great Seal of England To-morrow in the Afternoon.

4. They agree to the Order of taking off the Sequestration of Captain Morgan.

As to the Ordinance for making the Lord Herbert Master of the Stannaries, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Langham & al. and Lymbery & al.

This Day being appointed for hearing the Cause between Alderman Langham, &c. Plaintiffs, against Lymbery, &c. Defendants; the Plaintiffs Petition was read.

And then the Answer of the Defendants, whereunto was annexed a Copy of an Order of this House, as Part of the Answer, which was not attested by the Clerk of the Parliaments to be an authentic Copy.

And it being objected that the said pretended Order should not be read, because it was not attested and made authentic, according as the Proceedings of this House ought to be;

Hereupon the Parties, with their Counsel, were commanded to withdraw; and the House took the same into Consideration.

And after a long Debate, it being late,

The Question was put, "Whether this House should sit this Afternoon, to hear this Cause?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Next,

This Question was put, "Whether this Paper annexed to the Answer, pretended to be an Order of this House, shall be read in the Afternoon or not?"

And it was Resolved in the Negative.

Afterwards,

This Question was put, "Whether this Order in the Book shall be read in the Afternoon, in case the Counsel do desire it, in Supply of the Answer?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Ordinance for L. Howard of Estc. to have the Custody of the Person and Estate of L. Boteler.

"An Ordinance for settling of the Custody of Wm. Lord Boteler, and the Receipt and Disposition of the Profits of his Real and Personal Estate, with the Right Honourable Edw'd Lord Howard of Escrigg.

"The Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, taking Notice that the Custody, Tuition, and Government of Wm. Lord Boteler an Ideot, and likewise the Custody, Rule, Order, Occupation, and Disposition and Receipt, of the Manors, Messuages, Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments, of the said Lord Boteler, and of the Rents, Issues; and Profits thereof, as also all his Goods and Chattels whatsoever, were, by Grant under the Seal of the late Court of Wards and Liveries, bearing Date the 15th Day of November, in the Thirteenth Year of His Majesty's Reign that now is, for the Relief, Sustentation, and Finding of the said Will'm Lord Boteler, his Children and Family (if any be), and for the Preservation, Safeguard, and Reparation of the said Manors, Messuages, Lands, Tenements, Houses, Farms, and other the Premises, during the Ideocy of the said Will'm Lord Boteler, committed and granted unto Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endimion Porter Esquire, who, in respect of their Delinquency in taking up Arms against the Parliament, have, in the Judgement of the said Lords and Commons, rendered themselves unfit to be continued in that Trust, and have forfeited the same: And the Lords and Commons, taking into their Consideration as well the Alliance and near Relation of the Right Honourable Edward Lord Howard of Escrigg unto the said Lord Boteler, as the Confidence that may be justly reposed in him the said Lord Howard for the undertaking of the Trust, and the Order, Government, and Disposition, of the Person and Estate Real and Personal of the said Lord Boteler, have Declared and Ordained, and be it hereby Declared and Ordained by the said Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Custody and Grant made to the said Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endymion Porter, as aforesaid, shall absolutely cease and determine; and that they the said Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endimion Porter, nor either of them, nor any other Person or Persons claiming any Interest or Authority under them, or in Trust for them, or either of them, by Force of the said Grant made by the late Court of Wards and Liveries as aforesaid, shall from henceforth any Way intermeddle in the Custody of the Person, or Receipt of the Rents, or other the Real or Personal Estate, of the said Will'm. Lord Boteler: And be it hereby further Ordained, by the said Lords and Commons, That the same and the like Custody of the Person of the said Will'm Lord Boteler, and the same Order, Rule, Government, Occupation, and Disposition, of his Estate Real and Personal, as was granted and committed to the said Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endymion Porter as aforesaid, is and shall, by Force and Virtue of this Ordinance, be granted, settled, and conferred, upon the said Edward Lord Howard, and he the said Edward Lord Howard hereby enabled to have and take the Custody of the Person of the said Will'm Lord Boteler, and the Rule, Order, Government, Occupation, and Disposition, of his Estate Real and Personal, for the Maintenance and Support of him the said Will'm Lord Boteler, his Wife, Children, and Family (if there be any), as to his Estate (being in Case of Ideocy) doth appertain, and for the Preservation and Safety thereof, and other the Purposes expressed in the said Grant made to the said Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endymion Porter as aforesaid; and he the said Edward Lord Howard shall, by virtue of this Ordinance, have, hold, and enjoy, all such other Powers, Benefits, and Authorities, touching the Custody of the Person and Estate Real and Personal of the said Will'm Lord Boteler, as were heretofore granted unto the said Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endymion Porter as aforesaid, and as they, or either of them, might have had and enjoyed by virtue of the said Grant in case the same had stood in Force, and this present Ordinance had not been made, whereof as well the said Francis Lord Dunsmore and Endymion Porter, and all and every the Tenants and Farmers of the said Manors and Lands of the said Will'm Lord Boteler, and Possessors of any Part of his Estate Real and Personal, as all other Person and Persons whom the same may any Ways concern, are to take Notice, and are to govern themselves accordingly, in the Payment of their Rents and Arrearages of Rent, and Delivery of the Goods and Personal Estate of the said Will'm Lord Boteler unto the said Edward Lord Howard, and such as he shall authorize to receive the same."

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Salawey.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Kent.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Midd.
Comes Rutland.
L. Viscount Hereford.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Mulgrave.
Ds. North.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Hunsden.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Dacres.

Langham & al. and Limbrey & al.

This Afternoon being appointed for hearing the Cause between John Langham Alderman and others, against Lymbery and others; the Counsel were called in:

And being come to the Bar, the Speaker, by the Command of the House, told them, "That it was the Sense and Opinion of this House, That no Paper was to be read and accounted a Record, or to have the Virtue and Credit of an Order of this House, unless it were signed and attested by the Hand of the Clerk of the Parliaments."

And their Lordships taking Notice of some Language that was spoken by the Counsel of Lymbery in the Morning, concerning a Ministerial Officer of this House of great Trust, their Lordships do declare, "That he hath done nothing but what did stand with his Duty in the Execution of his Place, and do justify him in it; therefore this House expects that no such Language or Reflection should be made to any Officer of this House by any Counsel at the Bar, their Lordships holding themselves to be the proper Judges of the Actions of their own Officers."

This being said, the House heard the Counsel on both Sides fully.

And upon Consideration by this House, it is Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament, That it is hereby referred to all the Judges, to consider whether this Case, as it hath been this Day opened at the Bar, be within the Statute of 4 H. IV. or no.

And the said Judges are to report their Opinions unto this House on Tuesday next; and that, in the mean Time, there be no further Proceedings in the Business contained in the Petition and Answer, which are hereby ordered to be delivered to the Judges with this Order.

Ly. Petre and Withypool, about Ly. Farmer.

Ordered, That the Counsel concerning the Lady Farmer and Captain Withypole shall be heard, at this Bar, on Wednesday next, at Ten of the Clock in the Morning.

5th of Nov. to be observed.

Ordered, That the Lords do meet in the House To-morrow Morning at Nine of the Clock, and so go together to hear the Sermon in the Abbey Church, it being the 5th Day of November, 1646.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a, Friday Morning next.