House of Lords Journal Volume 8
11 January 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 11 January 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 8: 1645-1647 (1767-1830), pp. 663-667. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=34186 Date accessed: 23 September 2014.


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Contents

DIE Lunæ, 11 die Januarii.
E. of Devon Leave to come to Town. Answer from the H. C. Boyd to be paid Money due to him. Langham and Lymbrey. L. Howard's Petition. Thornton recommended to be Clerk of the Wardrobe. Ordinance for that Purpose. Paske to be instituted to Melbourn. Witnesses about the Report against the Earls of Northumb. and Pemb. Sir J. Barry recommended to be a Privy Counsellor in Ireland. Sir R. King to be re-called from Ulster, and the other Commissioners there to act without him. Lapthorne's Ordinance to be Minister of Sedgfield. Ordinance to disable sequestered Ministers. Answer from the H. C. Message to them, about the following Particulars. Borras, for stealing Plate of this House. Message from the H. C. with a Letter, &c. from General Skippon; and with an Ordinance. Answer. Murray to be attached. and Sir R. Murray. Letter from The States Ambassador. Business of The Carribbee Islands to be settled. Sir R. Murray to be attached. Persons to attend the King in His Journey to Holdenby. Message from the H. C. to expedite the Ordinances about the Army, &c. Answer. Pask to be instituted to Melbourn. Letter from General Skippon, with the following Examination. Peaket's Examination, about a Design of Murray and others, to assist the King in escaping from Newcastle. Letter from The States Ambassador, about the Merchants of The Intercourse being obliged to pay the Duty for Relief of English Captives in Barbary. Ordinance to indemnify the Commissioners of Excise, &c. for Money taken out of it by the Governors of Pool, &c. Footnotes

DIE Lunæ, 11 die Januarii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Strickland.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Midd.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Denbigh.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Mountagu.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. North.
Ds. Grey.

E. of Devon Leave to come to Town.

Ordered, That the Earl of Devon hath Leave to come to London with his Family.

Answer from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page returned this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree in the Report for building of the Frigates, with the Reservation of the Wood: To all the rest of the Particulars, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Boyd to be paid Money due to him.

Upon reading the Petition of Thomas Boyd, Merchant: It is Ordered, To be recommended to the House of Commons, with this (fn. *) Sense, "That the Lord Inchequin having acknowledged the receiving of the Goods for the Use of the State before a Committee of Lords, and desired some Course may be taken for the Payment of the Money to Mr. Boyd; the Lords are of Opinion, that the said Mr. Boyd be speedily paid, it having been received by my Lord Inchequin for the Payment of the Soldiers under him, and for the Support of his Garrisons; and recommend it to the House of Commons, for giving Order herein, out of such Monies as they shall think fit."

Langham and Lymbrey.

Ordered, That the Cause between Alderman Langham and Captain Lymbrey shall be heard on Saturday Morning next, whereof Notice to be given speedily.

L. Howard's Petition.

Upon reading the Petition of the Lord Howard: It is Ordered, To be specially recommended to the House of Commons; and the good Affections and Service of the Lord Howard to the Parliament to be represented to them.

Thornton recommended to be Clerk of the Wardrobe.

The Earl of Northumb. reported a Paper from the Committee of the Revenue; which was read, as follows:

"At the Committee of Lords and Commons for His Majesty's Revenue, sitting at Westm. the 29 of December, 1646.

"Upon Consideration had of the Petition of Mr. Launcelott Thornton, Clerk of the Robes and Wardrobe to His Highness the Prince of Wales, annexed, wherein he sheweth, That forasmuch as he is certainly informed, that a Survey and Inventory is to be taken of all His Majesty's Wardrobe Stuff; and that, in regard of the Absence of His Majesty's Clerk of the Wardrobe, he thinks it his Duty to tender his Service to this Committee, with his Desire that this Committee will bestow upon him the Execution of the Place of Clerk of the Robes and Wardrobe to the King: It is therefore Ordered, That it is the Opinion of this Committee, That the Petitioner is a fit Man to be Clerk of the Robes and Wardrobe to the King; and do desire the Right Honourable the Earl of Northumb. to report this our Opinion unto the House of Peers accordingly.

"Northumb.

"Pembrook & Mount.

"P. Wharton."

Ordinance for that Purpose.

An Ordinance was brought in, to this Purpose, and read, and approved of; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons for Concurrence.

Paske to be instituted to Melbourn.

Ordered, That Dr. Aylett shall give Institution and Induction to Wm. Paske Clerk, to the Vicarage of Melbourne, in the County of Derby; he taking the Covenant, and being presented thereunto by Sir John Cooke the Patron: This with a salvo Jure cujuscunque.

Witnesses about the Report against the Earls of Northumb. and Pemb.

This Day Henry Wraughton and John Markham, being to be examined this Afternoon by the Committee concerning the Business touching the Earl of Northumb. and Earl of Pembrooke; and their Oath given them at the Bar.

Sir J. Barry recommended to be a Privy Counsellor in Ireland.

The Earl of Northumb. reported a Paper from the Committee at Derby House, which was read:

"Die Veneris, 8 Januarii, 1646.

"At the Committee of Lords and Commons at Derby House.

"Ordered, That it be reported to both Houses, That Sir James Barry may go into Ireland a Privy Counsellor, in the Place of some of them who are nominated to go, and cannot."

Respited for a little Time.

Sir R. King to be re-called from Ulster, and the other Commissioners there to act without him.

"That it be reported to both Houses, That Sir Robert Kinge hath desired to be recalled out of Ulster; and that it is the Opinion of this Committee, that he may be re-called."

Agreed to.

"That it be reported to both Houses, That (Sir Robert King desiring to come away from Ulster) there may be an Ordinance for Sir Rob't Meredith, John Clatworthy, and Sir Wm. Anderson, to be Commissioners for Ulster, to continue for Four Months, with the same Powers that the former Commissioners had.

"Gualter Frost, Secretary."

Agreed to.

Lapthorne's Ordinance to be Minister of Sedgfield.

The Earl of Northumb. reported from the Committee, the Ordinance for making Mr. Lapthorne to be Minister of Sedgfield, in the County of Duresme, as fit to pass as it is; they having (fn. *) heard the Parties concerned in it.

Then the said Ordinance was read the Third Time, and Ordered to be re-committed.

Ordinance to disable sequestered Ministers.

Ordered, That an Ordinance be prepared, and brought in, for disabling such Ministers as have been sequestered for their adhering against the Parliament from having Livings, provided it be left to the Houses to put in such (fn. *) as they shall think fit.

Answer from the H. C.

Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath return with this Answer:

That the House of Commons agrees to the Ordinance for making Mr. Hill Minister of Brabrooke, in the County of North'ton: To the rest, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message to them, about the following Particulars.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath:

1. To desire they would take into speedy Consideration the Ordinance concerning Gouldsmithes Hall.

2. To put them in Mind of the Ordinance for the Militia of London; the Ordinance for the Lambeth Library to be given to the University of Cambridge; and the Ordinance for putting down Country Committees; and Mr. Drumond's Business: To put them in Mind of Mr. Maxwell's Business formerly sent down.

Borras, for stealing Plate of this House.

Ordered, That the Trial shall proceed against John Borras, who stole the Plate belonging to this House.

Message from the H. C. with a Letter, &c. from General Skippon; and with an Ordinance.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Sam. Browne, &c.

That they had received a Letter from Major Skippon, with an Examination inclosed; and desire that it may be communicated to the Scotts Commissioners.

2. To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance for the Indemnity of the Commissioners for Excise.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

The Letter and Examination were read; and Ordered, That the Members of this House that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms shall communicate this Examination to the Committee of both Kingdoms this Afternoon.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Ordinance now brought up; and do agree that the Examination and Letter be communicated to the Scotts Commissioners.

Murray to be attached.

Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher attending this House shall attach the Person of Wm. Murray Esquire, and bring him in safe Custody before the Lords in Parliament, to answer such Things as shall be charged against him.

and Sir R. Murray.

Ordered, That the Scotts Commissioners be desired, that a Letter be written to the Governor of Newcastle, "That Sir Rob't Murray and Mr. Wm Murray may be kept in safe Custody, and delivered over to the Gentleman Usher, or his Deputy, when he comes for them."

Letter from The States Ambassador.

A Letter from The States Ambassador, was read.

(Here enter it.)

It is Ordered, To be referred to the Committee for Foreign Affairs; and that they would take the same into Consideration.

Business of The Carribbee Islands to be settled.

Upon the Desire of the Earl of Carlile, to have Leave to go to The Caribe Islands: It is Ordered, To be referred to the Committee for Foreign Affairs; to state the Business of The Caribe Islands, and report it to this House.

Sir R. Murray to be attached.

Ordered, That Sir Robert Murray shall be brought in safe Custody to this House.

The Earl of Denbigh reported from the Committee that is to go to receive the Person of the King at Newcastle, some Desires of the said Committee:

Persons to attend the King in His Journey to Holdenby.

"The Committee propounds the Persons following, not to any particular Places; but only to attend the King in His Journey to Holdenby, in such Manner as the Committee shall think fit:

"Mr. Thomas Herbert.
"Mr. Salkeld.
"Mr. Maxwell to go to wait in his Place as Groom of the Bed-chamber.
"Mr. Anstye.
"Mr. Mall.
"Mr. Gibbs.
"Mr. Corbett.
"Sir Oliver Fleminge, who is willing to go, if the Houses will allow him to appoint a Deputy.

"As for Cup-bearer, Carver, Barber, and Cooks, those to continue which are now attending, unless the Committee find that they have been in Arms, or assisted in this War against the Parliament.

"For some inferior Officers that are necessary, the Committee intends to appoint such as they shall think fit.

"The Committee desires that Dr. Wilson may go with them as Physician.

"That it be added to the Fourth Instruction, That all Sheriffs, Justices of Peace, and Mayors, shall, upon Occasion, be assisting to the Committee in this Service."

Ordered, That this House appoints Mr. Babbington to go in the Place as Barber to the King.

Memorandum, That this House Declares, That this House sends Mr. Maxwell to wait in his Place as Groom of the Bed-chamber, and in no other Capacity or Construction.

These Particulars are further to be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning.

Message from the H. C. to expedite the Ordinances about the Army, &c.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Knightly:

To desire Expedition in the Ordinances concerning continuing the Pay of Sir Thomas Fairefax' Army, and continuing the Treasurers and Committee of the Army.

Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Pask to be instituted to Melbourn.

Ordered, &c. That Mr. Doctor Aylett, or his lawful Deputy, are hereby authorized and required, upon Sight of this Order, to give Institution and Induction unto William Paske Clerk, Master of Arts, to the Vicarage of Melbourne, in the County of Derby, void by the voluntary Cession of Mr. Clegat Clerk, the late Incumbent, salvo Jure cujuscunque; the said Mr. Paske taking the National League and Covenant, and producing his Presentation thereunto under the Hand and Seal of Sir John Cooke Knight, the lawful Patron pleno Jure.

Letter from General Skippon, with the following Examination.

"To the Honourable William Lenthall Esquire, Speaker to the Honourable House of Commons. These humbly present.

"Haste, Haste, Post Haste.

"Ph. Skippon.

"Truly Honoured Sir,

"I hold it my obliged Duty, in Faithfulness to great Trust reposed in me by this Honourable House in my present Northern Employment, as in all other Services that I shall have to do withall in relation to the Public, to acquaint you with whatsoever Occurrences of Concernment that I do or shall meet withall: Have therefore thought fit to send you this inclosed Examination, leaving the same to your judicious Consideration; humbly desiring, as shall be conceived convenient, to receive from you from Time to Time such Commands as may make me understand your Pleasure: And I assure you, Sir, (by the Help of my God) I shall with all Care and Fidelity put them in Execution. The Examinant himself will, I hope, be with you soon after this; for To-morrow I purpose to send him, accompanied with One that shall have an Eye upon him; although it is thought he hath dealt so ingenuously already, that there need not be any Doubt of his voluntary appearing before you: It is not unlikely but, if he be further examined before a Committee (and friendly used), some more Matters of Consequence may be discovered by him. He hath promised me he will be very clear and full, to his uttermost Knowledge, in whatsoever shall be asked of him. May it please you (if he do as he hath said) not to let him want Encouragement and a Reward; for I assured him, he or any Man might expect the same from the Parliament, that in good Earnest manifested himself faithful to the Parliament. I shall by him write Two or Three Lines to advertise you he is the Man. This is all I have at present to trouble you with, only that the Money-telling on both Parties goes on apace here; so that I hope it will be dispatched within the Time limited; and we shall (God willing). be gone from hence therewith Northward To-morrow Sevennight at furthest; and that I am,

"Much-honoured Sir,

Yorke, the 8th of January, 164 6/7, Friday, 11 at Night.

"Your true-hearted Servant,

"Ph. Skippon."

Peaket's Examination, about a Design of Murray and others, to assist the King in escaping from Newcastle.

"The Examination of Mr. Tobias Peaker, One of the Grooms of the Privy Chamber to the King, taken at Yorke, Jan. 7, 1646.

"The Examinant saith, That Mr. William Murray, Groom of the Bed-chamber to the King, about a Fortnight since, sent this Examinant to the Captain of the Dutch Ship lying in Newcastle, at the Sign of The Peacolk, to desire him to come to Mr. Murraye's Lodging in Newcastle; which he did; and the Dutch Captain went accordingly to Mr. Murray, and staid with him a little while in Private. When this Examinant next saw Mr. Murray, he was desired by him to go again to the Dutch Captain, and carry him One Hundred Pounds; and accordingly Mr. Levitt, One of the Pages of the Back-stairs to the King, was appointed to deliver the said One Hundred Pounds to this Examinant, who, not finding him, left the Money at Mr. Murraye's Lodging, under his Bed's Head, where the said Mr. Levitt after appointed this Examinant to fetch it; which this Examinant did, and carried it to the Captain according to Appointment: And (to this Examinant's best Remembrance) the same Night, being the 24th of December, Mr. Murray sent this Examinant to the Ship, then lying at Sheilds, to enquire of the Captain, "how the Wind served for his going out, and whether he could go out in the Night notwithstanding any Opposition from Tynmouth Castle?" The Captain answered, "He had rather go out in a Day-tide; but yet he could be ready at any Time, if the Wind was fair; and that he would go notwithstanding any Opposition." This Examinant lodged that Night aboard the Ship. The next Morning this Examinant went to Mr. Murray, and gave him an Account of the Dutchman's Answer; and the Day after, being Saturday the 26th of December, this Examinant was told by Mr. Levitt, that the King was up late the Night before, scilicet, the 25th of December, and he expected that they should go away; but the Wind served not. And, as this Examinate remembers, he had Conference with Mr. Murray the same Day, being Saturday, to this Purpose; scilicet, this Examinant asked Mr. Murray about the King's going away, whether He intended it or not, and whither He meant to go; withal telling him, "That he conceived it very much to the King's Disadvantage, to leave the Kingdom, and put Himself upon a Foreign Power." Mr. Murray answered, "That the King intended for France or Dunkirke; and withal that they had a good Game to play, in regard that there was certain Intelligence come, that the Peace was concluded in Ireland, and that their General Monro, who commands the Scottish Forces there, had so far considered the Business, that he would be for the King." Whereupon this Examinant said, "That he conceived the King's taking Part with the Irish, against whom He had so much declared, would lose much His Interest with His Protestant Subjects." To which Mr. Murray replied little; but said, "Within Two or Three Days, we shall know more of that Business."

"Two Days (or thereabout) after that, Mr. William Murray sent for this Examinant to the Sign of The Angell in Newcastle; where Sir Robert Murray coming in, spake with Mr. William Murrey. After they had spoken together, Mr. William Murrey said to this Examinant, "That, by reason the Mayor of Newcastle had examined the Captain of the Dutch Ship, they must steer another Course; and therefore desired this Examinant to go to Hartlepoole, and see what Ships were there, and enquire the Names of the Masters; which this Examinant promised he would do: But afterward, he considering further that it was not convenient for him to go to Hartlepoole without Pass or Letter from him, this Examinate went again to Mr. Murray, and desired some Letter from him; which Mr. Murrey wrote accordingly, to Lieutenant Colonel Douglas, Governor of Hartlepoole, which this Examinant received from him, and, having a Horse lent him by Sir Robert Murray, was to go the next Morning.

"On Thursday the last of December, this Examinate took Horse, and went over to Gateside; and, being gone Half a Mile towards Hartlepoole, began more seriously to think of the Consequents of that Business which he suspected he was employed about; and, not being willing to be accessary to an Action which might prove so prejudicial to the Kingdom, he returned into Gateside, and left his Horse at a Smith's Shop, and came back into Newcastle to Mr. Mayor's House; and, desiring to speak with Mr. Mayor, told him that he had a Business to impart to him in which he conceived the Good of the State much concerned: Whereupon Mr. Mayor called him up into a Chamber, and sent for Alderman Bonner, to whom this Examinant gave Account of what had passed betwixt Mr. Murray and him in this Business; and also shewed them the Letter he had received from Mr. Murray to the Governor of Hartlepoole, which the Mayor took a Copy of. The Contents of the Letter were to this Purpose: "Noble Governor, This Bearer can acquaint you with a Journey I am commanded to undertake. Here is neither Ship nor Wind sitting. I desire therefore to begin my Voyage at Hartlepoole, if there be any Accommodation where you are, &c."

"This Examinant then propounded to Mr. Mayor, whether he thought fit he should seal up the Letter again, and proceed, according to Mr. Murraye's Directions, to go to Hartlepoole; or whether he should go away to Yorke. Mr. Mayor and Alderman Bonner advised, that this Examinant should go on to Hartlepoole, and give an Account to Mr. Mayor of the Success of his Journey at his Return; which accordingly this Examinant intended to do, and to that Purpose he took his Journey the same Day, and went as far as Dureham on his Way to Hartlepoole; and there hearing that the Governor was gone to a Horserace near Newcastle where he was like to stay Two or Three Nights, this Examinate, being certainly informed thereof, returned to Newcastle, and gave the Mayor an Account of his Journey. And this Examinate further faith, he was ready to have done all further Service in his Power for the Good of the Kingdom: But, while he was gone toward Hartlepoole, the Mayor sent Alderman Bonner and Mr. George Dawson to the Earl of Leven, to acquaint him with this Letter of Mr. Murraye's and other Probabilities concerning the King's Escape, and desired him to make as private Use of it as possibly he could. But the Earl of Leven acquainting Mr. Murray with the Letter; this Examinate the next Morning, being Saturday the 2d of January, coming into the Presence Chamber, where Mr. Murray then was, Mr. Murray came to him, and swore " That this Examinant had betrayed the King and him;" and said, "This Examinant had divulged the Letter, for the General told him, That he had a Letter in Ambush for him." And further the said Mr. Murray expostulated with this Examinant, concerning his not going to Hartlepoole; and charged him with Negligence in the Business, and enquired where his Letter was. Whereupon this Examinant returned it to him; and Mr. Murray desired this Examinant to come to him about an Hour after, which this Examinant accordingly did, to know his Pleasure. And then Mr. Murray told him, "It was the King's Pleasure, That this Examinant should go to the Captain of the Dutch Ship, and bid him desire of the Train to victual his Ship;" which, as this Examinate believes, was but a Pretence for his Stay: But this Examinate, fearing the Business was so much discovered as that his further Employment might prove not only unserviceable to the Public, but dangerous to himself, durst not proceed farther in it; but came back to Mr. Mayor, and desired his Advice, and likewise the Assistance of his Pass, to get out of the Quarters of the Scottish Army, in which he thought it not safe to stay; which the Examinant accordingly received from Mr. Mayor, and went toward Yorke, where he was appointed to meet Mr. Alderman Bonner and Mr. George Dawson, who were sent by Mr. Mayor to wait on Major General Skippon, and to proceed further in the Examination of this Business as Occasion should be.

"And this Examinant being further asked, "Whether, by Conference with Mr. Murray or any other, he knew any Thing concerning any Engagement or Resolution of the Scottish Army now in England, or any Part of it, in reference to the King ?" This Examinant faith, "That Mr. Murray he told him, That Seven Regiments of the Foot were sure for His Majesty; (videlicet,) the Earl of Dumferling's, the Lord Sinclare's, the Regiments of Durham, the Regiment of Hartlepoole, and the Regiment of Tynmouth Castle; and that Mr. Murray also said, That David Lesley, the Lieutenant General of the Horse, had given good Hopes."

"Tobias Peaker.

"This Examination was taken and subscribed by us,

"Thomas Bonner.
"Geo. Dawson.
"Jo. Rushworth.

"This Examination was acknowledged by the within-named Tobias Peaker, in the Presence of

"Ph. Skippon.
Phil. Deane.
Jo. Mylles."

Letter from The States Ambassador, about the Merchants of The Intercourse being obliged to pay the Duty for Relief of English Captives in Barbary.

"My Lord,

"God maintain you in continual Health and Prosperity, and give to the Kingdom of England a durable Peace for ever. I pray, my Lord, that it will please you to pardon me, if I do importune you by this Letter. If I did not find myself pressed by my Duty to pursue the ensuing Business, I should be loth to stir a Thing by which your Proceedings might be aggravated. The Business which moved me is as followeth: The Honourable Parliament did, in the Month of February past, put in Hands of the Committee of Foreign Affairs One of my Remonstrances, to have upon it the Advice of the said Committee; a Copy of the said Remonstrance is hereunto annexed. The Business hath been pursued, both in my Name and by Merchants of The Intercourse interessed in it, that I might obtain an equitable Answer, and fit to preserve the Amity betwixt both Nations; but, in Lieu of what I expected, is ensued, that the said Merchant Strangers of The Entercourses have given me Notice, that the Tax upon Merchandizes, for Redemption of English Captives taken by Turkish, Moorish, and other Pirates, is by a new Order continued, and they ordered to pay, within Forty Days after the 11th of December last, the Sums for which their Bonds have been taken. These Proceedings do no Ways conduce to fasten the Amity which of ancient hath been between the Kings, Princes, and States of both Sides, and ought (according to the common Saying) to be entirely preserved. I pray you then, my Lord, to do so much, that the said Business may be more nearly considered by the Honourable Parliament: And I shall hold it for an Obligation towards that Honourable Assembly, and towards you, my Lord, when I shall have obtained that which I have propounded in my Remonstrance; and my Lords The States Generall shall very much like the equitable Resolution of the Honourable Parliament. In the mean while I shall ever rest,

London, the 11/21; of January, 164 6/7.

"My Lord,

"Most affectionate to do Service to your Lordship."

Ordinance to indemnify the Commissioners of Excise, &c. for Money taken out of it by the Governors of Pool, &c.

"Whereas the Committee of Lords and Commons for regulating the Excise, upon due Proof made before them, do find that the Governors of the Garrisons of Poole, Weymouth, Wareham, and Lyme, in the County of Dorsett, have received and taken, from the Sub-commissioners for Excise in the said County and their Officers and Deputies, for the supplying of the Necessities of those Garrisons, and Payment of the Soldiery, during the Times of the late Distractions in those Parts, when the Parliament could not otherwise supply them, the Sum of Five Thousand Six Hundred and One Pounds,Seven Shillings, and Nine Pence, collected on the Excise in that County, whereof the Commissioners of Excise nor the said Sub-commissioners are not yet discharged: Be it therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Commissioners of Excise and their Sub-commissioners, and every of them, shall be hereby discharged of the said Sum of Five Thousand Six Hundred and One Pounds, Seven Shillings, and Nine Pence, and every Part thereof; and the Comptroller and Auditor of the Excise are to allow the same upon Accompt."

Footnotes

* Origin. House.
* Deest in Originali,