House of Lords Journal Volume 8
12 January 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 8: 12 January 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 8: 1645-1647 (1767-1830), pp. 667-669. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=34187 Date accessed: 25 October 2014.


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DIE Martis, 12 die Januarii.

PRAYERS, by

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes (fn. *) Grey.
Comes Kent.
Comes Northumb.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Midd.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Berkeley.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Mountagu.
Ds. North.

E. of Rutland's Ordinance, for Money of L. Campden's.

An Ordinance was brought in, and read, for the Allowance of the Earl of Rutland to have Five Thousand Pounds, out of the Lord Viscount Campden's Estate; and Agreed to, and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons for their Concurrence.

Gibbs's Petition.

Upon reading the Petition of John Gibbs: It is Ordered, To be referred to the Committee of the Navy, to call Benjamin Goodwyne before them, and to examine the Truth of this Petition, and to do therein as shall be agreeable to Justice and Equity.

Examination concerning the Report against the Earls of Northumb. and Pemb.

The Earl of Manchester reported from the Committee, the Examinations taken concerning the Business of the Earl of Northumb. and the Earl of Pembrooke; videlicet,

Richard Lloyd's Examination.

John Markham's Examination.

Henry Wroughton's Examination.

Richard Lloyd's Examination. (Here enter them.)

Both cleared.

The House took into Consideration the aforesaid Examinations and Report, concerning the Earl of Northumb. and the Earl of Pembrooke.

The House considering into what Way to put this Business; the Earl of Northumb. and the Earl of Pembrooke withdrew themselves.

Whereupon the House took it into Consideration, as a great Concernment, why that they should withdraw themselves from sitting in the House as Peers, there being no Accusation against them.

And the House sent to them, that they might come and fit in the House if they please.

Then this Question was put, "Whether that, upon the Report from the Committee, their Lordships account the Earl of Northumberland and the Earl of Pembrooke clear from this Particular objected against them?"

And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.

To bring in a Charge against Lloyd for the Report.

After this, the House left it to the Earl of Northumb. and the Earl of Pembrooke, to bring in a Charge against the said Richard Lloyd, as they shall be advised by their Counsel.

Ordered, That these Examinations and the Vote shall be communicated to the House of Commons, at a Conference.

Message from the H. C. about Sir O. Fleming's attending the French Ambassador;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Pye Knight; who brought up divers Particulars, wherein they desired their Lordships Concurrence:

1. An Instruction for Sir Oliver Fleming to repair to the French Ambassador, who is coming to London from Newcastle.

The Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Vote now, as it is brought from the House of Commons?"

It is Resolved in the Negative.

and with an Order, and other Particulars.

2. An Order (fn. *) for Sir Anto. Ashley Cooper, for Leave to be out of the County of Wilts, being Sheriff there.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. Delinquents Names, for Satisfaction of the Reduced Officers.

4. A Letter from Sir Tho. Fairefax, and a Vote thereupon, concerning the Convoy with the Money.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

5. An Addition to the Instructions to be given to the Committee that is to go to Newcastle. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Additions to the Instructions to the Committee, and to the Vote concerning the Convoy, and to the Ordinance concerning Sir Ant. Ashly Cooper: To the rest, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Instructions for the L. Lieut. of Ireland.

Ordered, That the Instructions for the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland shall be taken into Consideration Tomorrow Morning.

Letter from the Scots Commissioners.

A Letter from the Scotts Commissioners, to the Speaker, was read. (Here enter it.)

Lloyd's Examination, concerning his Report that the Earls of Northumb. and Pembr. sent Money to the King at Oxford.

"The Examination of Richard Lloyd, taken the 9th of January, 1646.

"To the First Interrogatory, he saith, Being in Truro, in Company with Mr. Cowes and Mr. Treise, Mr. Cowes took Occasion to speak of his being at Oxford; and told him, "That there were divers Gentlemen, who, though they were with the King at Oxford, yet had sent Money to the Parliament." Then he replied, "He believed the like had been done on both Sides; for he had heard there were Two great Lords who had sent good Sums of Money to the King to Oxford; and some of the House of Commons had sent, some One Hundred Pounds, some more." Then Mr. Cowes said, "Do these Men still sit in the House?" He replied again, "To my Knowledge, some of them do sit still in the House." Then Mr. Cowes replied, "It is fit they should be known." This Examinant made Answer again, "Mistake me not; I do not believe they did it out of any Disaffection to the Parliament, but because they might think the Parliament's Forces were but in a weak Condition at that Time;" or some Words to that Purpose.

He further faith, he met with Mr. Crompton the First or Second Summer after at Edge-hill, whether of the Two it was he cannot well remember; and meeting with him in Oxford, he asked him, "How long he had been in Town?" He told him, "Four or Five Days." And this Examinant wondered he had not seen him all that Time at Court. He said, "He had kept his Bed almost ever since he came to Oxford." So this Examinant told him, "That he would give him a Cup of Wine." Crompton told him, "He should give him his Morning's Draught, for he was but newly risen." And afterwards being drinking together, he asked Crompton the Reason of it; and he said, "He and his Fellow Markham were lately come from London, and had brought the King Four Thousand Pounds in Gold quilted about them; and that he was so bruised with the Carriage of it, that he had kept his Bed for Two or Three Days together." Then this Examinant told Crompton, "I hope that the King had rewarded him well for his Pains." And he said, "No, the King only asked his Name; and said, He would think of him; and that He had given him Order to pay the Money to Ashburnham."

A little after this, this Examinant met with Markham near St. Marye's Church in Oxford; and he told him, "He heard he was come well loaded with Gold to Oxford." And he replied, "How this Examinant did come to hear of it?" And he told him, "This must be Crompton that told you of it; it was ill done of him: But wished him to say nothing of it; but it was true enough, for I feel the Weight of it yet." And not long after, this Examinant went to see Major Crompton, Brother to the aforesaid Crompton, and found them in Bed together; and after he had walked with the Major in the Town, he told this Examinant, "That his Brother had done the King good Service; and the King had promised to think upon him, and to do something for him;" and withall said, "He had brought the King a great Sum of Money, from the Earl of Pembrook and the Earl of Northumberland."

"This Examinant further said, That he spoke with no others at Oxford about this Business, to the best of his Remembrance; but hath heard it spoken of at Oxford in Company, but cannot well remember the Time or Company.

"He further says, That he conceives Mr. Henry Wroughton can say something to this Business, though he never had any Discourse with him about it; because Mr. Markham and he were frequently together, and Servants to the Earl of Pembrooke.

"Rich. Lloyd."

More Examinations about this Business.

The Examination of John Markham, taken the 11th of January, 1646, upon Oath.

"He saith, he did know of Mr. Crompton's going to Oxford, but did not go along with him: That he conceives it was about Three Years ago.

"That he does not know that Mr. Crompton carried any Money to Oxford; and is very confident he carried none.

"John Markham."

"The Examination of the said John Markham, taken the same Day, but not upon Oath.

"That he never was employed by the Earl of Northumberland and the Earl of Pembrook, or either of them, to carry Money to Oxford.

"That he never had any Discourse about any such Business.

"That he hath an Instrument of Wood in his Back, and another in his Arm, that he is hardly able to carry his Cloak; and hath had them these Six Years.

"John Markham."

The Examination of Henry Wroughton, taken the 11th of January, 1646, upon Oath.

"He saith. That he never heard at Oxford that the Earl of Northumberland or the Earl of Pembrooke did send any Money to the King.

"That Mr. Lloyd never spake to him of any such Thing.

"Hen. Wroughton."

"The further Examination of Richard Lloyd, taken the 11th of January, 1646, upon Oath.

"That he never heard any Thing, to his Remembrance, concerning this Business of the Earl of Northumberland and the Earl of Pembrooke, but from Mr Crompton, the Major Crompton, and Mr. Markham.

"Rich. Lloyd."

Convoy sent by Sir T. Fairfax with the Money for the Scots.

"Resolved, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Houses do approve of the General Sir Thomas Fairefax, in sending of the Convoy appointed by him to go along with the Two Hundred Thousand Pounds to be paid to our Brethren of Scotland, and of the Convoy so sent by him for that Purpose."

Sir A. Ashley Cooper, Sheriff of Wilts, Leave to reside out of the County.

"Whereas Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper Baronet, now Sheriff of the County of Wilts, by reason of his many and great Occasions concerning his own Estate, will be necessitated to repair to London: The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, being willing that the said Sir Anthony Cooper should not by reason of his said Sheriffalty be prejudiced in his private Affairs and Estate, do Ordain and Declare, That it shall and may be lawful to and for the said Sir Anthony Ashly Cooper, during the Time of his being Sheriff of the County of Wilts aforesaid, to repair to London, or elsewhere, for the Dispatch of his necessary Occasions there; any Act, Statute, Law, or Custom, to the contrary, in any Wise notwithstanding."

Letter from Sir Tho. Fairfax, that he had sent a Convoy with the Money to the Scots, who would occupy the Garrisons quitted by them.

"For the Honourable William Lenthall Esquire, Speaker of the Honourable House of Commons.

"Mr. Speaker,

"Having dispatched the Convoy under the Command of Major General Skippon, with the Money, towards the Scotts Army; this Account I thought fit to give you, That there are Three Regiments of Foot and Three of Horse of this Army appointed, to be the Convoy, and to possess those Garrisons which shall be quitted or delivered up by the Scotts Army, unless you shall please to make other Provision for them: And what further Order you shall please to give, I shall be ready to observe; and remain

Northampton, 27 Decembris, 1646.

"Your humble Servant,

"T. Fairfax."

Letter &c. from the Scots Commissioners, about the Design said to be formed by Murray and others, to assist the King in escaping from Newcastle.

"For the Right Honnorable the Speaker of the House of Peeres pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"Yesternight an Examination, with other Papers, was delivered unto us by the Committee of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdomes. Wee doe intreate your Lordship to comunicate our Answere presently to the House; and wee remaine.

Worcester House, 12 January, 164 7/6.

Your Lordship's humble Servaunts,

"Lauderdaill.
Charles Erskine.
Hew. Kennedy. Ro. Barclay."

"Wee doe observe and take speciall Notice of the Favor of the Honnorable Houses of Parliament, in comunicating unto us the Examination of Tobias Peaker, together with Major Generall Skippon's Letter, and Too Orders of the House of Peeres; such Correspondence and makeing knowne of Informations of that Kinde being a good Way (and often desired by us) for preventing of Misunderstandings betweene the Kingdomes: And as to that particular Busines, wee retourne this Answere, That, if the Earle of Leven was acquainted therewith upon the last of December, as is informed by that Examinate, it is most strang to us that to this Day wee have not the least Hint given us from the North of any such Thinge; only wee are informed, by Two Letters, that Tobias Peaker had stolen away the Moneys, Clothes, and some other Things, belonging to Mr. William Murray, and soe escaped; whereupon it is desired in those Letters, that he may bee apprehended in case he come to London: And although noe such Letters had come, yet there is such a Contradiction (to passe other Improbabilityes of some Circumstances) in his owne Informations, as may make the Truth of the Busines greatly suspected; for in One Place he saith, "That Mr. Murray sent him to enquire of the Dutch Captaine, whether he would goe out with his Shipp notwithstanding any Opposition from Tynmouth Castle;" yet in annother Place he faith, "Mr. Murray tould him, the Regiment of Tynmouth Castle is sure for His Majesty."

"However, for further manifestinge of the Truth, wee have without any Delay sent the Examination, together with the Votes of the Houses, unto the Committee of the Parliament of Scotland at Newcastle; and have desired their Lordships to make a perfect and exact Enquiry into the Truth or Falshood of the Busines, and to retourne hither a true Information concerninge their Proceedings therein, which wee doe not doubt wil bee such as the Houses shal bee sattisfyed with; trusting in the meane Tyme, that the Informations of a Person accused of Theft cannott bee of any such Value with the Honnorable Houses, as to blast the Reputation of those particular Persons, much lesse of those Regiments of the Scotts Army, mentioned in that Examination.

"And as wee shall never offer to justify any Delinquency or Unfaithfulness in any Person or Persons whatsoever in that Army, soe wee cannott but expect that noe other but a charitable and good Opinion of them shall lodge with both the Honorable Houses of Parliament, untill there bee a reall Ground to thinke otherwise of them.

12th January, 164 7/6.

"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"Jo. Cheislie."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a cras.

Footnotes

* Sic.
* Origin. that.