House of Lords Journal Volume 5
18 January 1643

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 18 January 1643', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 5: 1642-1643 (1767-1830), pp. 560-562. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35005 Date accessed: 26 July 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, 18 die Januarii.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker this Day.

The Speaker acquainted the House, "That he hath received a Letter from the Lord Viscount Falkland, [ (fn. *) in Answer] to his Letter sent to him, with the Petition and Reasons concerning the Adjournment of the Term to Oxford."

"My Lord,

Lord Falkland's Letter, with the King's Answer to the Petition against adjourning the Term to Oxford.

"I have received your Lordship's of the 13th of this Month, and presented to His Majesty the Petition of both Houses inclosed in it; and, by His Majesty's Command, return to your Lordship His Majesty's inclosed Answer. I have nothing else to trouble your Lordship with at this Time; but stile myself,

"My Lord,

Oxford 17 Januarii, 1642.

"Your Lordship's humble Servant,

"Falkland."

Next the Answer was read as followeth. (Here enter it.)

Ordered, To be communicated to the House of Commons.

Sir Edw. Rodney's Petition, to be removed to Mr. Stone's Custody, in his House at Westminster.

The Petition of Sir Edward Rodney was read; shewing, That he stands committed by this House to The Compter in Woodstreate, for levying War against the Parliament; but he affirms, he hath neither furnished Men, Horse, Plate, or other Warlike Pro vision, neither hath he acted any Thing tending to a War; that he hath lain near Four Months in Prison, his Health declining by reason of his Restraint; and, conceiving that the greater Affairs of the Parliament may retard the Proceedings upon the Charge against your Petitioner, doth humbly desire he may attend your Lordships farther Pleasure, under a Confinement to the House of Mr. Edward Stone, in Westm. giving Security to be kept there a Prisoner; and he will be always ready to perform such faithful Service to the King and Parliament, as in Duty he is bound."

And further this House was informed, "That the said Sir Edward Rodney hath lately expressed very good Affections and Expressions towards the Parliament:" Hereupon, in regard he was impeached by the House of Commons, this House Resolved, To send the said Petition to the House of Commons, with their Lordships Sense, "That their Lordships are inclined to change the Place of Imprisonment of Sir Edward Rodney, in regard of his Indisposition of Health by reason of the Place where he now is, and the good Affections which he hath lately expressed to the Parliament, and to remove him to the Custody of the Person mentioned in the said Petition; but, in regard he was impeached by the House of Commons, their Lordships think it fit to acquaint them first therewith; and that the Person to whom he desires to be committed to Custody may be approved of by them."

Message to the H. C. about it, and to deliver the King's Answer to the Petition against adjourning the Term.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Bennett:

To deliver to them the King's Answer concerning the Term; and to deliver them the Petition of Sir Edward Rodney, with the Sense of this House as aforesaid.

Propositions to the King.

Next, the Speaker reported, "That the Committee hath perused the Propositions intended to be sent to the King, wherein their Lordships have thought fit to make some Alterations;" which Alterations were read, and, after some Debate, were agreed to according to the Alterations and Amendments, and Ordered to be communicated to the House of Commons, by a Conference.

"To let the House of Commons know, that their Lordships would be ready to join in any Way of Recommendation, for the Advantage of the Speaker of the House of Commons; but their Lordships are certainly informed, that the Place of the Master of the Rolls is already disposed of.

"To insist that Mr. Justice Foster may be recommended to be Chief Baron of the Court of Exchequer.

"That the Lord Keeper be commanded to omit such as were unfit for Government.

"Leave out the Twelfth Article, of associating against Spaine and the Pope, &c. for it will stir up and provoke them against us.

"2. We shall thereby engage ourselves in a War."

Carr released from Newgate, upon his Petition, on Condition of going beyond Sea.

Upon reading the Petition of Patrick Carr, a Scotts Gentleman, Prisoner in Newgate; shewing, "That he, being bred beyond the Seas, whence he was coming to see his Friends and Country, was, by Storm of Weather, forced to put into England, against his Will, where he was apprehended, and hath ever since been a Prisoner; and, because he is not guilty of any Misdemeanor, and being in much Misery in Prison, desires that he may have Licence to depart this Kingdom, and return again beyond the Seas." And further this House was informed, "That he may be permitted to depart this Kingdom, the Portingall Ambassador will undertake to transport him into Portingall."

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said Patricke Carr shall repair unto the Earl of Northumb. who is to send him to the Portingall Ambassador; and, if he will assure his Lordship that he will transport him into Portingall, then the said Carr is to be released of his Imprisonment, and set at Liberty, and permitted to go beyond the Sea into Portingall.

Mr. Wilkinson, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Wilkinson, One of the Officers of the Court of Wards, shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, to the Term.

Lady Newton, a Pass.

Ordered, That my Lady Newton shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, to see her Husband.

Mrs. Jermyn, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mrs. Jermyn shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, to see her Husband.

Select Committee of both Houses to be appointed, to consider of the Propositions.

Ordered, That it shall be moved to the House of Commons, at this Conference touching the Propositions, that select Committees of both Houses may be appointed, to review the Eighth Proposition somewhat concerning the Lord Herbert, before it receives a final Determination and Resolution of the Houses, that some Reasons may be given to dispense with those Particulars:

These Lords were appointed Committees:

Lords Committees.

E. Northumb.
E. Bedford.
E. Pembrooke.
E. Sarum.
E. of Holland.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
L. Brook.
L. Wharton, and the
L. Howard.

Any Three of their Lordships to meet this Afternoon, at Three of the Clock, with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons.

Message to the H. C. about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Fynch and Serjeant Glanvile:

To desire a present Conference, concerning the Propositions to be presented to the King.

"Whereas the Seventh Proposition to the King is, That His Majesty will be pleased, by Act of Parliament, to settle the Militia both by Sea and Land, and for the Forts and Ports of the Kingdom, in such a Manner as shall be agreed on by both Houses; and upon this the House of Commons passed a Vote, That it is the Opinion of that House, that they do not decline, or intend to invalidate, the Ordinance of the Militia by this Proposition."

Ordered, That this House agrees and joins with the House of Commons in this Vote.

L. Say & Seale, Master of the Court of Wards and Liveries, not to attend the Term at Oxford, but to continue his Attendance in this House.

The Lord Viscount Say & Seale, Master of His Majesty's Court of Wards (fn. *) and Liveries, moved, "That, in regard His Majesty hath expressed, in His Answer to the Petition of both Houses, presenting to Him Reasons against the Adjournment of the English Courts to Oxford next Term, that His Majesty is resolved to have the said Courts kept there, and expresses that He expects the Presence of His Council of His Court of Wards there: His Lordship desired to know the Pleasure of this House, whether their Lordships will give him Leave to go and attend the Business of his Place, in the Court of Wards at Oxford:" But this House taking the same into Consideration, the great and important Affairs now agitated in Parliament, and that his Lordship is a Member of this House, it is Ordered, That the Lord Viscount Say & Seale is hereby commanded not (fn. †) to go to Oxford, but give his Attendance upon this House, for the dispatching the great and weighty Affairs now depending in Parliament, notwithstanding this Command of the King.

Answer from the H. C. about Sir Edward Rodney.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they consent to the removing of Sir Edward Rodney, according to the Desire in his Petition.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:

That they will give a present Conference, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Mr. Hone, Leave to go in the Country upon Bail.

Ordered, That Mr. Hone shall have Leave to go down into the Country, to his own House, giving Bond to appear here within Six (fn. *) Days after Notice given from this House.

Dr. Mason, Master of Requests, to attend the King.

Ordered, That Mr. Doctor Mason, One of the Masters of Request, shall have Leave to go to Oxford, to give his Attendance on His Majesty there, according to the Duty of His Place.

House adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

King's Answer to the Parliament's Petition, concerning the Adjournment of the Term to Oxford.

"CHARLES R.

"His Majesty hath seriously weighed the Reasons presented to Him from both Houses of Parliament, to induce His Majesty to revoke His late Proclamation for the Adjournment of the Term; and returns this Answer:

"That the Lord Keeper of the Great Seal of England being (in regard of His Majesty's most important Affairs) necessarily to attend His Majesty, His Majesty hath likewise appointed His High Court of Chancery to be held in the Place where His Majesty resides, that so His Subjects may have their Causes determined by the Supreme Judge of that Court; but is well content that the Masters of the Chancery that are Assistants to the House of Peers shall, notwithstanding His said Proclamation, continue their Attendance upon that House of Peers, where they are Assistants.

"For His Court of Wards, upon which so essential a Part of His Majesty's Revenue depends, it concerned Him to draw the same to Him; since, being at London, it will prove of no Advantage or Supply to His Majesty's Occasions, by reason of the Stops there of all Money from coming to Him; and therefore He shall expect the Presence of His Council of that Court here, the Time of the Term being so short that they may speedily return again to the Service of the Houses, which have not used to deny their Members Leave for so short a Time to attend His Majesty's Service, to which by Law they are bound; besides that, His Majesty doubts not but He may, for a convenient Time, upon pressing and urgent Occasions (especially for the Discharge of another necessary Duty), dispense with a Peer's Attendance upon the House, without any Breach of Privilege, which hath not been denied in former Parliaments.

"For the Danger of His Majesty's Subjects in their Passage, by reason of the several Armies, His Majesty doth not know that they are to pass through more Armies to His City of Oxford, than they must to His City of London; or that the Courts of Justice cannot proceed with the same Freedom and Liberty here where His Majesty's Army is, as there where is an Army against Him: But His Majesty will take Care that His good Subjects shall no Way suffer by His Army here, which He can by no Means undertake for the other Army at London. For the Records of the several Courts, His Majesty expects and requires Obedience from the Officers thereof, according to His Proclamation, as no Doubt His Subjects will take Care for the particular Evidences which concern themselves; and for the safe Carriage and Conveyance of both (that they suffer not in the least Degree by His Majesty's Army), His Majesty will surely provide: Neither can the Prejudice be great to His Subjects by the Courts of Equity being no further removed from the Courts of Law.

"The Reason of His Majesty's Adjournment of the Courts of Law till Crastino Purificationis is for the great Danger His good Subjects must undergo by passing through the Armies; and His Majesty much fears His good Subjects will have little Benefit by their legal Proceedings, whilst His Majesty and the Law are no better able to defend one another.

"For these Reasons, and those expressed in His Proclamation, His Majesty can by no Means revoke His said Proclamation; but, it being His undoubted Right to adjourn or remove the Terms to what Place He please, if He hath yet any undoubted Right, His Majesty doth expect Obedience to His said Proclamation, and to every Part thereof."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10a hora cras.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. of.
Deest in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.