House of Lords Journal Volume 5
4 April 1643

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 4 April 1643', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 5: 1642-1643 (1767-1830), pp. 687-691. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35066 Date accessed: 17 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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Contents

DIE Martis, 4 die Aprilis.
Mr. Frier, a Pass to Holland. E. of Northumberland's Letter about the Treaty with the King; and about some Letters directed to him being taken away by one of Lord Essex's Scouts. Speaker to write to the L. General, to send for the Scout, and to prevent the like Insult for the future. Papers relative to the King's Revenue and Magazines. Answer from the Committee, concerning the King's Revenue. His Majesty's Reply. Question of the Committee upon it. The King's Answer. Question from the King, concerning His Revenue. Answer of the Committee to it. Committees Answer concerning the King's Magazines. His Majesty's Reply. Committee desire an Explanation of it. The King's Explanation. Committee desire a further Explanation. Inhabitants of St. Leonard's Foster Lane, Petition for a Minister. Trafford's Possession in the Fens in Lincoln to be quieted. Order for sequestering the Profits of Thorley from Pory. Rogers, a Pass. May to be removed from Coventry to London. Message to the H. C. to concur in it. Sir Charles Berkley's Servants, a Pass. Hobbart, Earl of Holland's Servant, Privilege. Answer from the H. C. about May. Orders from the H. C. for Concurrence Order for sequestering the Profits of Thorley from Mr. Pory. Order for 70l. to poor Women, out of their Husbands Pay in Ireland. Order for 40l. to Mr. Higginson for Wheat. Order for 400l. to Sir J. Clotworthy. Order for 138l. to Sir Robert King, for Cows, Wheat, &c. Mrs. Reeves, a Pass. Mr. Lloyd, a Pass. Footnotes

DIE Martis, 4 die Aprilis.

PRAYERS.

Earl of (fn. *)

Mr. Frier, a Pass to Holland.

Ordered, That Mr. Phillip Frier shall have Leave to go into Holland.

The Speaker reported to the House, "That he had received a Letter from the Earl of Northumb." which was read; signifying, "That he hath sent some Papers, being the King's Answer."

"My Lord,

E. of Northumberland's Letter about the Treaty with the King; and about some Letters directed to him being taken away by one of Lord Essex's Scouts.

"I have sent, by this Bearer, several Papers of the Transaction of the Two First Heads of the King's First Proposition, betwixt His Majesty and the Committee: The Papers concerning the Revenue are by themselves, and marked with Figures; so are those concerning the Magazines; They are Six Papers, upon each of the Heads. Upon the Second Paper concerning the Magazines, His Majesty told us, by Word of Mouth, That by ["the Army under the Command of the Earl of Essex"] he meant the Armies of the North and West as well as that at Windsor, for he understood that the Earl of Essex had Command in Chief. To the Sixth Paper concerning Magazines, we have yet received no Answer in Writing; but the Lord Falkland told us, That His Majesty did not yet know the Names. We likewise presented to His Majesty, within the Four Days, all that was on our Part to be done concerning the Forts and Ships, and the Disbanding of the Armies; to all which we have received some Answers from His Majesty, and delivered to Him our Desires for Explanation. And Seven Papers of ours to these remain yet unanswered; the Business of the Cessation intervening, I humbly desire the further Directions of the House hereupon. Every Moment we expect the King's Answer concerning the Cessation, which we were promised with all possible Speed; and I hope your Lordship will suddenly receive it.

"I shall crave Leave to acquaint your Lordship with an Accident that happened this Day to a Servant of mine, as he was returning hither to me, having a Pass from me under my Hand: About Fifteen Miles from this Town, a Scout of my Lord of Essex met him, took from him those few Letters that he had, all of them directed to me, and carried them (as he said) to Winsor. If this be permitted, we shall not adventure to write any Thing: nor shall we be certain of receiving any of your Lordships Commands, Unless we have Liberty for the free sending of Messengers with our Passes, whilst we are here employed in your Service, I know not how any Letters will be conveyed unto your Lordship. I leave to your Lordships Wisdoms to consider of, and so I rest

"Your Lordship's humble Servant,

Oxford, the 2d April, 1643, at Night.

"A. Northumb.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore."

Speaker to write to the L. General, to send for the Scout, and to prevent the like Insult for the future.

This House taking into Consideration what Course to take, to give the Earl of Northumb. Reparation for the staying of his Letters and taking them away, and for the preventing of the like for the future; this House Ordered, That the Speaker should write to the Lord General, to acquaint him therewith, and desire him to send for the Scout, and examine the Business, and take some Course that the Earl of Northumb. may receive Reparation; and that he would give a strict Command to all Scouts, and other Officers in the Army, that no such Thing may be done for the future; and that his Lordship give an Account to this House of the Examination of this Business.

Next, was read these Papers following: videlicet,

Papers relative to the King's Revenue and Magazines.

1. An Answer of the Committee concerning the King's Revenue, 26 March.

2. His Majesty's Reply concerning His Revenue, March 27.

3. The Questions of the Committee upon the King's Reply concerning Revenue, 27 March.

4. The King's Answer to the Question of the Committee concerning His Majesty's Revenue, 27 March.

5. The King's Question concerning Revenue, March 27.

6. The Answer of the Committee to the King's Question concerning Revenue.

1. The Committees Answer concerning the Magazines, 26 March.

2. His Majesty's Reply concerning His Magazines, March 27.

3. An Explanation desired concerning the Magazines, 28 March.

4. His Majesty's Explanations concerning the Magazines, March 28.

5. His Majesty's further Explanation concerning His Magazines, March 29.

6. A further Desire of Explanation concerning the Magazines, March 29.

"March 26, 1643.

Answer from the Committee, concerning the King's Revenue.

"To that Part of Your Majesty's First Proposition concerning Your Majesty's own Revenue, we give this Answer:

"The Two Houses of Parliament have not made Use of Your Majesty's own Revenue but in a very small Proportion, which for a good Part hath been employed in the Maintenance of Your Majesty's Children, according to the Allowance established by Yourself; and the Two Houses of Parliament will satisfy what shall remain due to Your Majesty of those Sums received out of Your Majesty's own Revenue, and will leave the same to Your Majesty for the Time to come. We likewise humbly propose to Your Majesty, that You will restore what hath been taken for Your Majesty's Use upon any of the Bills assigned to other Purposes by several Acts of Parliament, or out of the Provision made for the War of Ireland.

"Northumb.

"Wm. Pierepont.
Wm. Armyn.
Jo. Holland.
B. Whitlock."

"March 26, 1643.

His Majesty's Reply.

"His Majesty knows not what Proportion of His Revenue hath been made Use of by His Two Houses of Parliament; but He hath Reason to believe that, if much of it hath not been used, very much remains still in their Hands; His whole Revenue being so seized and stopped by the Orders of One or both Houses, even to the taking away of His Money out of the Exchequer and Mint, and Bonds (forced from His Cofferer's Clerks) for the Provision of His Majesty's Household, that very little hath come to His Majesty's Use, for His own Support. He is well contented to allow whatsoever hath been employed in the Maintenance of His Children, and to receive the Arrears to Himself, and to be sure of His own for the future.

"He is likewise willing to restore all Monies taken (fn. *) for His Majesty's Use, by any Authority from Him, upon any Bills assigned to other Purposes, His Majesty being assured He hath received very little or nothing that Way; and expects that Satisfaction be made for all those several vast Sums received and diverted to other Purposes by Orders of One or both Houses, which ought to have been paid upon the Act of Pacification to His Subjects of Scotland, or employed for the Discharge of the Debts of this Kingdom, and by other Acts of Parliament for the Relief of His poor Protestant Subjects of Ireland.

"Falkland."

"March 27, 1643.

Question of the Committee upon it.

"Whereas we have received Your Majesty's Answer of the 26th of this Instant to ours of the same Date, concerning Your Majesty's own Revenue:

"We humbly desire to know of Your Majesty, if you will not account Your Revenue to be sure for the future, if both Houses of Parliament do leave it in the same Way as it was before these Troubles did begin.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierpont.
Wm. Armyn.
Jo. Holland.
B. Whitlock."

"March 27, 1643.

The King's Answer.

"His Majesty did intend, in His former Answer, by those Words of ["being sure of His own for the future,"] that no Restraint or Interruptions should be made, by One or both Houses, in and upon His Majesty's Revenue; but that it should be left in the same Way it was before these Troubles did begin.

"Falkland."

"March 27, 1643.

Question from the King, concerning His Revenue.

"His Majesty desires to be resolved, by the Committee from both Houses, whether their Proposition to His Majesty, to restore what hath been taken for His Majesty's Use upon any of the Bills, &c. be a new Demand, or a Condition upon which only that is granted which goes before.

"Falkland."

"March 27, 1643.

Answer of the Committee to it.

"Whereas Your Majesty desired to be resolved by us, whether the Proposition to Your Majesty, to restore what hath been taken for Your Majesty's Use upon any of the Bills, &c. be a new Demand, or a Condition upon which that is granted which goes before:

"We humbly conceive it to be no new Demand; but whether it be such a Condition, upon which only that which goes before is granted, we are not able to resolve.

"A. Northumb.
Wm. Pierepont.
Wm. Armyn.
Jo. Holland.
B. Whitlocke."

"March 26, 1643.

Committees Answer concerning the King's Magazines.

"To that Part of Your Majesty's First Proposition concerning Your Magazines, we humbly give this Answer:

"That all the Arms and Ammunition taken out of Your Majesty's Magazines, which shall remain in the Hands of both Houses of Parliament, shall be delivered into Your Stores; and whatsoever shall be wanting, they will in convenient Time supply in Kind, according to the Proportions which they have received.

"We likewise humbly propose unto Your Majesty, that the Persons to whose Charge those Public Magazines shall be committed, being nominated by Your Majesty, may be such as the Two Houses of Parliament shall conside in; and that Your Majesty will restore all such Arms and Ammunition as have been taken, for Your Majesty's Use, from the several Counties, Cities, and Towns.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierepont.
Wm. Armyn.
Jo. Holland.
B. Whitlocke."

"March 27, 1643.

His Majesty's Reply.

"His Majesty is content that all the Arms and Ammunition taken out of His Magazines, which do now remain in the Hands of both Houses, or of Persons employed by them, be forthwith delivered into such of His Stores as His Majesty shall appoint; and that whatsoever shall be wanting of the Proportions taken out from thence by them, be supplied by them with all convenient Speed in Kind; which shall be committed to, and continued in, the Custody of the sworn Officers, to whose Places the same belongs; and, if any of the said Officers shall have forfeited, or shall forfeit, that Trust, by any Misdemeanors, His Majesty will by no Means defend them from the Justice of the Law,

"For the Restoring all such Arms and Ammunition as have been taken, for His Majesty's Use, from the several Counties, Cities, and Towns, His Majesty being compelled to take them, His own being taken from Him, did it always with this Caution and Promise to the Places from whence he took them, that He would, by the Blessing of God, restore them again, and make Recompence out of His own Stores as soon as it should be in His Power; which Promise He will make good to them, expecting that such Arms and Ammunition as have been taken from the several Counties, Cities, and Towns, for the Use of the Armies under the Command of the Earl of Essex, be likewise restored to them.

"Falkland."

"March 28, 1643.

Committee desire an Explanation of it.

"Whereas we have received Your Majesty's Answer of the 27th of this Month, to ours of the 26th of this Instant, concerning Your Majesty's Magazines:

"We humbly desire to know of Your Majesty what Time you intend by the Expression in the Words ["be forthwith delivered"].

"We humbly desire to know in what Places Your Majesty would have Your Stores, and who are the sworn Officers Your Majesty intends, that, according to our Instructions, we may transmit their Names to both Houses of Parliament.

"Northumberland.
Wm. Pierpoint.
Wm. Armin.
John Holland.
B. Whitlock."

"March 28, 1643.

The King's Explanation.

"His Majesty intended by that Expression ["be forthwith delivered"] as soon as the Treaty shall be concluded and agreed on.

"Falkland."

"March 29, 1643.

"The Place of Store, into which His Majesty is content that the Arms and Ammunition taken out of His Majesty's Magazines be delivered, is His Tower of London; and the Officers he intends; are such as by Patent ought to receive and keep the same.

"Falkland."

"March 29, 1643.

Committee desire a further Explanation.

"Concerning the Magazines:

"We humbly desire, according to our Instructions, that the Persons to whose Charge the Public Magazines should be committed, being nominated by Your Majesty, should be such as the Lords and Commons should conside in.

"We, not knowing whether the Two Houses will conside in the Persons Your Majesty mentions, must transmit their Names to both Houses of Parliament, to receive their further Instructions.

"Northumberland.
Wm. Pierepoint.
John Holland.
Wm. Armin.
B. Whitlock."

Inhabitants of St. Leonard's Foster Lane, Petition for a Minister.

Upon reading the Petition of the Inhabitants of the Parish Church of St. Leonards Foster Lane, in London; shewing, "That their Minister is lately dead, and the Gift of that Living is in the Dean of Westm: and, in regard of his Absence, they cannot come to be Suitors to him, for to have an honest and an able Minister for that Parish; they desired their Lordships to take their Case into their Lordships Consideration:" Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Bishop of London be desired, from this House, not to institute or induct any Man into the aforesaid Living, until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Trafford's Possession in the Fens in Lincoln to be quieted.

Upon reading the Petition of John Trafford Esquire, shewing, "That, by virtue of an Order of this House, he hath enjoyed the Possession of Lands inclosed, in the Fens, in the County of Lyncolne; but of late he is disturbed in his quiet Possession, by the Means of one Wise, a Councellor:" Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Two next Justices of the Peace, calling unto their Aid the Under Sheriff of the said County, shall see the Order of this House put into due Execution, and do therein according to Justice.

Order for sequestering the Profits of Thorley from Pory.

Whereas Rob't Pory was summoned to appear before this House this Day, to be heard what he could say touching the Sequestration of the Church of Thorley, in the County of Hertford; and the said (fn. *) Pory not giving his Attendance accordingly, this House read the Order of Sequestration, and agreed with the House [ (fn. †) of Commons] therein. (Here enter it.)

Rogers, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Francis Rogers shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, and return again to London, with Servants, and such Necessaries as shall be convenient for his said Journey.

May to be removed from Coventry to London.

Message to the H. C. to concur in it.

It was moved, "That whereas Mr. Adrian May is a Prisoner in the City of Coventry, and that the Lady Viscountess Campden his Aunt being very sick, likely to die, from whom he is in Expectation of a Fortune; and, in Case she should die, and he at so great a Distance, it would be much to his Prejudice:" In regard whereof, their Lordships are inclined to give Leave that he should be brought to (fn. *) London as a Prisoner, and remain there under the same Restriction as he now is; but, because the Committee at Coventry have their Power from both Houses of Parliament, this House sent a Message to the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't and Mr. Page, to let them know, that, upon the Reasons aforesaid, their Lordships are inclined to give Leave that the said Mr. Adrian should be † brought up to London, as a Prisoner, in regard it will else be much to his Prejudice, which their Lordships are unwilling it should be.

Sir Charles Berkley's Servants, a Pass.

Ordered, That Thomas Dale, Wm. Bisgood, Roger Open, Wm. Baker, Eliz. Linnis, and Edith Russell, Servants to Sir Charles Berkley, shall have a Pass, quietly to pass from London to the House of Sir Charles Berkeley, in Somersetshire, and back again; taking with them Six Saddle-horses, a Horse-litter, and such Apparel and other Necessaries as shall be fit and convenient for the said Journey.

Hobbart, Earl of Holland's Servant, Privilege.

The Earl of Holland acquainted this House, "That one Mr. Nath. Hobbart, a Servant of his Lordship's, is arrested, at the Suit of one John Raven, upon a Bond of Two Hundred Pounds; and that the said Raven coming before his Lordship, upon Examination of the Business, it appeared that the said Mr. Hobbart was but a Surety for another, and so no proper Debt of his own; yet, upon Offer made that, if the said Raven would release the Payment of the Interest Money, that Mr. Hubbart would pay the Principal Money, the said Raven refused to do (fn. †) it; it was desired that the said Mr. Hobbart might be released from the said Arrest; and the Party Mr. Raven at whose † Suit he was arrested, and (fn. ‡) also that the Serjeant that arrested him, may be sent for as Delinquents, to answer the same:" Which this House Ordered accordingly; and this House Ordered, That the Protection given by the Earl of Holland to the said Mr. Hobbart shall be hereby confirmed and made effectual, and that Mr. Hobbart shall have and enjoy the Privilege of Parliament thereby.

Answer from the H. C. about May.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they will send Answer, by Messengers of their w n, concerning Mr. Adrian Maye.

Orders from the H. C. for Concurrence

Next, the House read and passed these Orders following, formerly brought up from the House of Commons:

1. An Order to pay Seventy Pounds to divers Women, who are the Wives of some Persons employed in the Train of Artillery in Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. An Order to pay Forty Pounds to Mr. Higginson, for Wheat for Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Order for Payment of One Hundred and Thirty-eight Pounds to Sir Rob't Kinge, for Wheat, &c. for Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order to pay Four Hundred Pounds, to be impressed upon Accompt, unto Sir Jo. Clattworthy, for his Service in Ireland. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Order for sequestering the Profits of Thorley from Mr. Pory.

"Whereas Robert Pory, Parson of the Parish Church of Thorley, in the County of Hertford, hath endeavoured, in his Preaching, to corrupt his Parishioners with the Leaven of Arminian Doctrines; that there is no Divine Decree of particular Actions or Persons, nor Love of God to particular Persons; but that Christ died for all, and the Ground of our Election to be in ourselves, and not in God; and usually inveigheth against Strictness in Religion, affirming a Puritan to be a Limb of the Devil, abusing our Brethren the Scotts, publicly affirming them to be damned Rogues, and them that took their Parts; and hath preached, that he was as much bound in Conscience to read such Things in the Church as the Bishops sent unto him to be so read, as he was bound to read the Lordsprayer, and that he received them by equal Authority; and hath expressed his Malignancy against the Parliament's Proceedings, refusing to read the Ordinances and Declarations of Parliament required to be read by him; and, when the same were read by another, he flung out of the Church, calling such as he met to go out with him, and not to stay to hear (as he called it) a Kind of bibble-babble Things, to no Purpose at all: All which the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled taking into Consideration, for the better Supply of an able and Godly Minister in the said Church, and for the Provision of fit Maintenance for those that shall officiate therein, do constitute and Ordain, That Nicholas Humfrey, Henry Godfrey, Edward Willey, Robert Osborne, Mathew Barnard, John Brett, Henry Taylor, and Edward Warner, Parishioners of the said Parish of Thorly, or any Three of them, shall have Power and Authority, and are hereby required, to sequester the Parsonage-house, and all the Glebe Lands, Tithes, Rents, and Profits whatsoever, of the said Church, and to appoint Collectors for the gathering and receiving of them, as they in their Discretion shall think fit; and shall have Power, and are hereby required, to deliver and pay the same unto John Halsiter, Master of Arts, a Godly, Learned, and Orthodox Divine, who is hereby appointed and required to preach every Lords-day, and to officiate as Parson, and to take Care for the Discharge of the Cure of the said Place in all the Duties thereof; until further Order shall be taken by both the Houses of Parliament; and, if any shall refuse to pay unto the said Sequestrators, or any Three of them, or to the Collectors appointed by them, any of the Tithes, Rents, Duties, or lawful Fees accustomed to be paid, or to deliver up to them the said Parsonagehouse or Glebe Lands, upon Information thereof by the said Sequestrators, or any Three of them, unto either House of Parliament, the said Lords and Commons do hereby Declare, They will proceed against such Refusers according to their several Offences and Contempts."

Order for 70l. to poor Women, out of their Husbands Pay in Ireland.

"Whereas divers Women, who are the Wives of some Persons employed in the Train of Artillery in Ireland (as is certified by the Lords Justices), are humble and importunate Suitors, that a Part of the Pay of their Husbands already due unto them, and set out for the Relief of those Women and their Children, may be paid them here, and defalked out of their Husbands Pay there; the whole assigned to those Women amounting, from the 15th Day of October last, to the Third of this Instant March inclusive (being Five Months), to the Sum of Fortyeight Pounds, Sixteen Shillings, Eight Pence: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled, That, for Satisfaction of them and some other Officers of the said Train of Artillery (who are necessarily employed here in keeping the Stores of Materials designed for that Service), the Receivers of the Adventurers-money, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do pay unto Mr. Nicholas Loftus, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the Sum of Seventy Pounds, to be by him forthwith paid over unto the said Women, and such other Servants of that Train of Artillery as the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland shall direct, and to be defalked upon the several Entertainments and Pay of their Husbands and others, due to that Time."

Order for 40l. to Mr. Higginson for Wheat.

"Whereas it appeareth, by the Certificate of John Hodder Esquire, Commissary of Victual of the City of Corke in Ireland, testified under the Hand of the Lord Inhiquine, bearing Date the 4th Day of February 1642, presented to the Committee appointed to take Care of the Affairs of that Kingdom, that Mr. Robert Higginson hath delivered into His Majesty's Stores at Corke Forty Barrels of Wheat, at Twenty Shillings the Barrel, amounting to Forty Pounds Sterling, to be paid in London, to the said Robert Higginson, or his Assigns, out of the Chamber of London, by those who are or shall be thereunto assigned, within Thirty Days after Sight of the said Certificate (the Second not being paid), according to the Order of Parliament in that Behalf published in Print: It is Ordered by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money for Ireland do forthwith pay, unto Mr. Nicholus Loftus, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the said Sum of Forty Pounds, to be by him paid over to the said Mr. Higginson, or his Assigns, in full Satisfaction of the said Wheat so delivered as is certified, and according to the said Order of Parliament in that Behalf."

Order for 400l. to Sir J. Clotworthy.

"It is this Day Ordered by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Four Hundred Pounds, out of the Contribution-monies for Ireland, be forthwith paid unto the Treasurer at Wars, or his Deputy, for the Kingdom of Ireland, of those Monies, to be impressed upon Accompt, unto Sir John Clottworthy, for his Service in Ireland."

Order for 138l. to Sir Robert King, for Cows, Wheat, &c.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in this present Parliament assembled, That the Receivers of the Adventurers-money, upon Subscriptions for Lands in Ireland, do forthwith pay, out of those Monies, unto Nicholas Loftus Esquire, Deputy Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, the Sum of One Hundred Thirty-eight Pounds, to be by him paid over unto Sir Robert King Knight, or his Assigns, for Fiftytwo Cows, and One Hundred Seventy-two Barrels of Wheat and Beer Barley, by him delivered into His Majesty's Stores at Dublin; that is to say, the Cows at the Rate of Twenty Shillings the piece, and the Wheat and Beer Barley at Ten Shillings the Barrel, as appeareth by the Certificate of Sir Phillip Percivall Knight, Commissary General for the Victual here, dated the 26th Day of January last, and attested under the Hand and Seal of Sir Adam Loftus Knight, Vice Treasurer and Treasurer at Wars for that Kingdom, according to an Ordinance of Parliament for that Purpose published in Print."

Mrs. Reeves, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mrs. Reeves, her Sister and her Niece, shall have a Pass, quietly to go to Oxon, and back again to London, with a Man Servant and a Maid Servant, a Coach, and Four Horses.

Mr. Lloyd, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. Lloyd, the Chaplain to this House, shall have Leave to go into Berks, about his Occasions, for a convenient Time.

Footnotes

* Sic.
* Origin. from.
* Origin. Thorley.
Deest in Originali.
* Origin. a London.
Deest in Originali.
Origin. all.