House of Lords Journal Volume 5
8 April 1643

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 5: 8 April 1643', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 5: 1642-1643 (1767-1830), pp. 699-704. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35070 Date accessed: 30 July 2014.


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Contents

DIE Sabbati, 8 die Aprilis.
Earl of Northumberland's Letter, about the Treaty with the King. Questions from the King, about the First Proposition. The King's Answer about His Magazines. Committees Answer to the King, about the First Proposition. The King's Answer about disbanding the Armies. Reply of the Committees. Committees desire an Explanation about the Disbanding. The King's Explanation. Committees desire a further Explanation. Committees Answer about the Disbanding. The King's further Answer concerning it. The King's Answer about His Return, and Conclusion of the Treaty. Answer from the Committee, about the Fleet. The King's Reply. Committee desires an Explanation of it. The King's Answer. Answer from the Committee to the King, about His Towns and Forts. The King's Reply. Questions from the Committee, about the King's appointing the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, Governorsof Towns, &c. The King's Answer. Question from the Committee, about an Oath to be taken by all Officers, &c. The King's Answer. These Papers to be communicated to the H. C. and to be debated by the Committees for the Treaty. Message to the H. C. for a Conference about them. Answer. Sir T. Lucy's Monument, &c. a Pass. Countess of Devon, a Pass. Lady Higham, a Pass. Sir Fr. Beneday, a Pass. Adjourn. Post meridiem. Mrs. Murray, a Pass. Message from the H. C. for Instructions to the Committee at Oxon. Answer. Message from the H. C. with Orders, &c. for Concurrence. Answer. Report of the Conference about the Instructions to the Committee at Oxford. Instructions to the Committee at Oxon. Magazines, and enlarging the Time of the Treaty. Cinque Ports, Forts, Towns, and Castles. Ships. Disbanding. The King's Return to the Parliament. Oath of Officers. Enlarging the Time. Adjourn. Footnotes

DIE Sabbati, 8 die Aprilis.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester was appointed to be Speaker this Day.

The Speaker acquainted the House, "That he hath received a Letter from the Earl of Northumb." which was read, as followeth:

"My Lord,

Earl of Northumberland's Letter, about the Treaty with the King.

"I have herewith sent your Lordship, by Sir Peter Killegrewe, the Paper concerning the Magazines, marked with the Figure (7) (which, as I mentioned when I last sent the other Parts of that Head, we had not received from His Majesty), and likewise all the other Papers concerning the Forts, Castles, Towns, and Ships, and concerning the Disbanding; which Papers on each Head are severally figured. We have delivered to His Majesty the Directions of both Houses, concerning Mr. Ash's Cloaths, to which we have not yet received His Majesty's Answer, but expect it suddenly. His Majesty asked us Yesterday, whether we had any Instructions to treat with Him on the latter Part of our First Proposition concerning His Return to His Two Houses of Parliament, and your Lordships will find that repeated in a Paper this Day received from His Majesty, and our Answers thereunto, which I conceive my Duty to give your Lordship an Account of; and, upon the whole Matter, to attend your Lordships further Pleasure, which shall be carefully obeyed by

"Your Lordship's humble Servant,

Oxford, 7 April, 1643.

"Northumb.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro tempore."

"April 6, 1643.

Questions from the King, about the First Proposition.

"1. His Majesty desires to know from the Committee of both Houses, whether they acquiesce with His Majesty's Replies to their Answer concerning His First Proposition, which Yesterday they received from Him, and to which they have yet made no Return?

"His Majesty likewise desires to know whether they have yet received Power and Instructions to treat with His Majesty concerning His Return to His Houses of Parliament, which is a Part of the First Proposition of both Houses?"

"The King's Explanation concerning Magazines, April 5th, 1643.

The King's Answer about His Magazines.

"2. His Majesty conceives His Answer concerning the Persons to whose Custody His Magazines shall be committed to be very clear and sufficient, and shall forbear any more particular Nomination of them; the Two Houses well knowing whether they have any just Exceptions to make against any of them; which if they have, His Majesty will leave them to the due Course of Justice.

"The Committees last Answers concerning the King's First Proposition, and His Return, 6 April, 1643.

Committees Answer to the King, about the First Proposition.

"3. We shall transmit Your Majesty's Replies to our Answers concerning Your First Proposition to both Houses of Parliament, without further Reply.

"We likewise humbly answer, That we have not received any Power or Instructions to treat with Your Majesty concerning Your Return to Your Two Houses of Parliament; but we assure ourselves, they will give Your Majesty Satisfaction therein.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierepont.
Jo. Holland.
Wm. Armyn.
B. Whitlocke."

"His Majesty's Answer to the First Proposition of both His Houses of Parliament, 28 March, 1643.

The King's Answer about disbanding the Armies.

"4. His Majesty is as ready and willing that all Armies be disbanded as any Person whatsoever; and conceives the best Way to it to be, a happy and speedy Conclusion of the present Treaty, which (if both Houses will contribute as much to it as His Majesty shall do) will be suddenly effected; and, that this Treaty may the sooner produce that Effect, His Majesty desires that the Time given to the Committee of both Houses to treat may be enlarged: And His Majesty desires nothing more than to be with His Two Houses; and so He will repair thither as soon as He can possibly do it with His Honour and Safety.

"The Committees Reply concerning Disbanding the Armies, March 29.

Reply of the Committees.

"5. We are directed, by our Instructions, humbly to desire Your Majesty's speedy and positive Answer concerning the Disbanding of the Armies; to which if Your Majesty be pleased to assent, we are then to beseech Your Majesty, in the Name of both Houses, that a near Day may be agreed upon, for the Disbanding of all the Forces in the remote Parts of Yorkeshire, and the other Northern Counties, as also in Lanchashire, Cheshire, and in the Dominion of Wales, and in Cornwall and Devon; and, they being fully disbanded, another Day may be agreed on, for the Disbanding of all Forces in Lyncolneshire, Notts, Leycestershire, and all other Places, except at Oxford and the Quarters thereunto belonging, and Windsor and the Quarters thereunto belonging: And that, last of all, a speedy Day may be appointed for the Disbanding those Two Armies at Oxford and Winsor, and all the Forces, Members of either of them.

"That some Officers of both Armies may speedily meet, to agree of the Manner of the Disbanding; and that fit Persons may be appointed, by Your Majesty and both Houses of Parliament, who (fn. *) may repair to the several Armies, and see the Disbanding put in speedy Execution accordingly.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierpont.
Jo. Holland.
Wm. Armyn.
B. Whitlocke."

"March 29, 1643.

"Concerning Your Majesty's Answer to the Proposition of both Houses for disbanding of the Armies;

Committees desire an Explanation about the Disbanding.

"6. We humbly desire to know if by the Words ["By a happy and speedy Conclusion of the present Treaty"] You do intend a Conclusion of the Treaty on Your Majesty's First Proposition, and their Proposition for disbanding the Armies, or a Conclusion of the Treaty on all the Propositions of both Parts:

"We have given speedy Notice to both Houses of Parliament of Your Majesty's Desires, that the Time given to the Committee of both Houses to treat may be enlarged.

"To the last Clause, we have no Instructions.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierepont.
Jo. Holland.
Wm. Armyn.
B. Whitlocke."

"The King's Explanation concerning (fn. *) the Conclusion of the Treaty, April 5, 1643.

The King's Explanation.

"7. His Majesty intended, by the Words ["By a happy and speedy Conclusion of the Treaty"], such a Conclusion of or in the Treaty, as there might be a clear Evidence to Himself and His good Subjects of a future Peace, and no Ground left for the Continuance or Growth of these bloody Dissentions, which He doubts not may be obtained, if both Houses shall consent that the Treaty may proceed without further Interruption or Limitation of Days.

"Falkland."

"The Committees Desire of further Explanation by his Majesty's Disbanding, 6 April 1643.

Committees desire a further Explanation.

"8. We humbly desire to know, if by the Words ["By a happy and speedy Conclusion of the present Treaty"] Your Majesty intends a Conclusion of the present Treaty on Your Majesty's First Proposition, and the Proposition of both Houses for disbanding of the Armies, or a Conclusion of the Treaty on all the Popositions of both Parts.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierepont.
Jo. Holland.
Wm. Armyn.
B. Whitlocke."

"The last Answer of the Committee concerning Disbanding, April 7, 1643.

Committees Answer about the Disbanding.

"9. We have not transmitted Your Majesty's Answer to the Proposition of Disbanding, wherein Your Majesty mentions Yourself to be most ready to return to both Your Houses of Parliament whensoever You may do it with Honour and Safety, for that we humbly conceive we were to expect Your Majesty's Answer to that Proposition this Day received, before we could give a due Account thereof to both Houses of Parliament; the which we will presently send away, without further Reply.

"Northumb.
Wm. Pierepont.
Jo. Holland.
Wm. Armyn.
B. Whitlocke."

"The King's further Answer concerning Disbanding, April 5.

The King's further Answer concerning it.

"10. When the Time for disbanding the Armies shall be agreed upon, His Majesty well approves that some Officers of both Armies may speedily meet, to agree of the Manner of Disbanding; and that fit Persons may be appointed, by His Majesty and both Houses of Parliament, who may repair to the several Armies, and see the Disbanding speedily put in Execution accordingly.

"Falkland."

"His Majesty's last Answer concerning Conclusion of the Treaty and His Return, 7 April, 1643.

The King's Answer about His Return, and Conclusion of the Treaty.

"11. His Majesty conceives His Answers already given (for He hath given Two) to be very clear and significant; and, if the Conclusion of the present Treaty, on His Majesty's First Proposition and the Proposition of both Houses, shall be so full and perfectly made, that the Law of the Land may have a full, free, and uninterrupted Course, for the Defence and Pre servation of the Rights of His Majesty, both Houses, and His good Subjects, there will be thence a clear Evidence to His Majesty, and His good Subjects, of a future Peace, and no Ground left for the Continuance and Growth of these bloody Dissentions, and it will be such a Conclusion as His Majesty intended; His Majesty never intending that both Armies should remain undisbanded until all the Propositions of both Sides were fully concluded: But His Majesty is very sorry that, in that Point of the First Proposition of both Houses, which hath seemed to be so much wished, and which may be so concluded as alone much to conduce to the Evidence desired (videlicet, His Return to both Houses, to which His Majesty in His Answer hath expressed Himself to be most ready, whensoever He may do it with Honour and Safety), they have yet no Manner of Power nor Instructions so much as to treat with His Majesty.

"Falkland."

"March 27, 1643.

"To that Part of Your Majesty's First Proposition which concerns Your Ships, we humbly give this Answer:

Answer from the Committee, about the Fleet.

"12. That the Ships shall be delivered into the Charge of such a noble Person as Your Majesty shall nominate to be Lord High Admiral of England, and the Two Houses of Parliament confide in, who shall receive the same Office by Letters Patents, quamdiu se bene gesserit, and shall have Power to nominate and appoint all subordinate Commanders and Officers, and have all other Powers appertaining to the Office of High Admiral; which Ships he shall employ, for the Defence of the Kingdom, against all Foreign Forces whatsoever, and for the Safeguard of Merchants, Securing of Trade, and the Guarding of Ireland, and the Intercepting of all Supplies to be carried to the Rebels; and shall use his uttermost Endeavours to suppress all Forces, which shall be raised by any Person, without Your Majesty's Authority, and Consent of the Lords and Commons in Parliament; and shall seize all Arms and Ammunition provided for Supply of any such Forces.

"Northumberland.
Wm. Pierrepoint.
Wm. Armyne.
J. Holland.
B. Whitlock."

"March 28, 1643.

The King's Reply.

"13. His Majesty expects, that His own Ships be forthwith delivered to Him, as by the Law they ought to be; and, when He shall please to nominate a Lord High Admiral of England, it shall be such a noble Person against whom no just Exception can be made; and, if any shall be, His Majesty will always leave him to his due Trial and Examination, and shall grant his Office to him by such Letters Patents as have been used: In the mean Time, His Majesty will govern the said Admiralty by Commission, as in all Times hath been accustomed; and whatever Ships shall be set forth by His Majesty, or His Authority, shall be employed for the Defence of the Kingdom against all Foreign Forces whatsoever, for the Safeguard of Merchants, Securing of Trade, Guarding of Ireland, and the Intercepting of all Supplies to be carried to the Rebels; and shall use their utmost Endeavours to suppress all Forces which shall be raised, by any Person whatsoever, against the Laws and Statutes of the Kingdom; and to seize all Arms and Ammunition provided for the Supply of any such Forces.

"Faulkland."

"March 29, 1643.

"14. Concerning Your Majesty's Proposition for Your Ships;

Committee desires an Explanation of it.

"We humbly desire Your Majesty would be pleased to give a more full Answer to the Clause for the Ships to be delivered into the Charge of such a noble Person as Your Majesty shall nominate to be Lord High Admiral of England, and the Two Houses of Parliament confide in, who shall receive the same Office by Letters Patents, quamdiu se bene gesserit.

"And to that Clause to suppress all Forces which shall be raised by any Person without Your Majesty's Authority, and Consent of the Lords and Commons in Parliament; whereunto if Your Majesty shall be pleased to give Your Assent, we conceive we are then directed, by our Instructions, humbly to desire Your Majesty to nominate such noble Person to be Lord High Admiral of England, that we may forthwith certify both Houses of Parliament, that thereupon they may express their Confidence in that Person, or humbly beseech Your Majesty to name another; and that, in Case such noble Person, who shall be appointed to be Lord High Admiral of England, shall be removed, or shall die, within the Space of Three Years next ensuing, that the Person to be put in the same Office shall be such as both Houses shall confide in.

"Northumberland.
Holland.
Wm. Peirepoint.
Wm. Armyne.
B. Whitlock."

"15. Concerning His Majesty's Propositions for His Ships:

The King's Answer.

"His Majesty conceives His former Answer of the 28th of March, concerning the Ships, to be so full, that He can add nothing thereunto in any Part of it.

"His Majesty conceiving it all the Justice in the World for Him to insist, that what is by Law His own, and hath been contrary to Law taken from Him, be fully restored unto Him, without conditioning to impose any new Limitations upon His Majesty or His Ministers, which were not formerly required from them by Law, and thinking it most unreasonable to be pressed to diminish His own just Rights Himself, because others have violated and usurped them.

"Faulkland."

"March 27, 1643.

"16. To that Part of Your Majesty's First Proposition which concerns Your Majesty's Towns and Forts, we humbly give this Answer:

Answer from the Committee to the King, about His Towns and Forts.

"That the Two Houses of Parliament will remove the Garrisons out of all Towns and Forts in their Hands, wherein there were no Garrisons before these Troubles, and slight all Fortifications made since that Time, and those Towns and Forts to continue in the same Condition they were in before; and that those Garrisons shall not be removed, nor the Fortifications repaired, without Consent of Your Majesty and both Houses of Parliament.

"That, for those Towns and Forts which are within the Jurisdiction of the Cinque Ports, they shall be delivered into the Hands of such a noble Person as Your Majesty shall appoint to be Warden of the Cinque Ports, being such an one as they shall confide in.

"That the Town of Portsemouth shall be reduced to the Number of the Garrisons as was at the Time when the Lords and Commons undertook the Custody thereof; and such other Forts, Castles, and Towns, as were formerly kept by Garrisons, as have been taken by both Houses of Parliament into their Care and Custody since the Beginning of these Troubles, shall be reduced to such Proportion of Garrison as they had in the Year 1636, and shall be so continued; and that all the said Towns, Forts, and Castles, shall be delivered up into the Hands of such Persons of Quality and Trust, to be likewise nominated by Your Majesty, as the Two Houses of Parliament shall confide in.

"That the Warden of the Cinque Ports, and all Generals and Commanders of Towns, Castles, and Forts, shall keep the same Towns, Castles, and Forts respectively, for the Service of Your Majesty and the Safety of the Kingdom; and that they shall not admit into any of them any Foreign Forces, or any other Forces raised without Your Majesty's Authority, and Consent of the Two Houses of Parliament; and they shall use their uttermost Endeavours to suppress all Forces whatsoever without such Authority and Consent, and they shall seize all Arms and Ammunition provided for any such Forces.

"They likewise humbly propose to Your Majesty, that You would remove the Garrisons at Newcastle, and all other Towns, Castles, and Forts, where any Garrisons have been placed by Your Majesty since these Troubles; and that the Fortifications be likewise slighted, and the Towns and Forts left in such Estate and Condition as they were in the Year 1636.

"That all other Towns, Forts, and Castles, where there have been formerly Garrisons before these Troubles, may be committed to the Charge of such Persons, to be nominated by Your Majesty, as both Houses of Parliament shall confide in, and under such Instructions as are formerly mentioned; and that the new Garrisons shall not be renewed, nor the Fortifications repaired, without Consent of Your Majesty and both Houses of Parliament.

"A. Northumberland.
J. Holland.
W. Pierrepont.
W. Armyne.
B. Whitlock."

"March 28, 1643.

The King's Reply.

"17. His Majesty is content that all the Garrisons, in any Towns and Forts in the Hands of any Persons employed by the Two Houses of Parliament, wherein there were no Garrisons before these Troubles, be removed, and all Fortifications made since that Time may be slighted; and those Towns and Forts shall for the future continue in the same Condition they were in before.

"For the Cinque Ports, they are already in the Custody of a noble Person, against whom His Majesty knows no just Exceptions, and who hath such a legal Interest therein, that His Majesty cannot with Justice remove him from it, until some sufficient Cause be made appear to Him; but is willing, if he shall at any Time be found guilty of any Thing that may make him unworthy of that Trust, that he may be proceeded against according to the Rules of Justice.

"The Town of Portsmouth, and all other Forts, Castles, and Towns, as were formerly kept by Garrisons, shall be reduced to their ancient Proportion, and the Government of them put into the Hands of such Persons against whom no just Exceptions can be made; all of them being, before these Troubles, by Letters Patents granted to several Persons, against any of whom His Majesty knows not of any Exceptions, and who shall be removed if just Cause shall be given for the same.

"The Warden of the Cinque Ports, and all Governors and Commanders of Towns, Castles, and Forts, shall keep the same Towns, Castles, and Forts, as by the Law they ought to do, for His Majesty's Service, and the Safety of the Kingdom; and they shall not admit into any of them Foreign Forces, or other Forces raised or brought in contrary to the Law, but shall use their uttermost Endeavours to suppress all such Forces, and shall seize all Arms and Ammunition, which, by the Laws and Statutes of the Kingdom, they ought to seize.

"The Garrisons of Newcastle; and all other Towns, Castles, and Forts, in which Garrisons have been placed by His Majesty since these Troubles, shall be removed; and all the Fortifications shall be slighted, and the Towns and Forts left in such State and Condition as they were in the Year 1636.

"All other Towns, Forts, and Castles, where there have been formerly Garrisons before these Troubles, shall be committed to the Charge of such Persons, and under such Cautions and Limitations, as His Majesty hath before expressed.

"And no new Garrisons shall be renewed, nor their Fortifications repaired, otherwise than as by the Laws and Statutes of the Kingdom they may or ought to be.

"Falkland."

"March 29, 1643, Cinque Ports, &c.

Questions from the Committee, about the King's appointing the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, Governorsof Towns, &c.

"18. Concerning the appointing of the Warden of the Cinque Ports, and Governors of Your Majesty's Towns, Castles, and Forts, we humbly desire to know, if Your Majesty's Reply doth intend that both Houses of Parliament may express their Confidence of the Persons to whose Trust those Places are to be committed; for that we are directed, by our Instructions, that, if Your Majesty be pleased to assent thereunto, that You would nominate Persons of Quality to receive the Charge of them, that we may forthwith certify both Houses of Parliament, that thereupon they may express their Confidence in those Persons, or humbly beseech Your Majesty to name others, none of which Persons to be removed during Three Years next ensuing, without just Cause to be approved by both Houses of Parliament; and, if any be so removed, or shall die within the said Space, the Persons to be put in the same Offices shall be such as both Houses shall confide in.

"We humbly desire to know if Your Majesty intends the Garrison of Portsmouth to be of such a Proportion as it was about the Year 1641, about which Time a new Supply was added to the former Garrisons, to strengthen it; which both Houses of Parliament think necessary to continue.

"We humbly desire Your Majesty would be pleased to give a more full Answer to this Clause, that they would not admit into them any Foreign or other Forces, raised without Your Majesty's Authority, and Consent of the Two Houses of Parliament; and that they shall use their utmost Endeavours to suppress all Forces whatsoever raised without such Authority and Consent; and that those Garrisons should not be renewed, or their Fortifications repaired, without Consent of Your Majesty and both Houses of Parliament.

"A. Northumberland.
W. Pierrepont.
Wm. Armyne.
J. Holland.
B. Whitlocke."

"April 5, 1643.

The King's Answer.

"19. His Majesty doth not intend that both Houses of Parliament shall express their Confidence of the Persons to whose Trust the Cinque Ports, or other His Majesty's Towns, Castles, and Forts, now are or shall be committed; but only that they shall have Liberty, upon any just Exceptions, to proceed against any such Persons according to the Law; His Majesty being resolved not to protect them against the Public Justice, and well knowing that, when any of those Places shall be void, the Nomination and free Election is a Right belonging to and inherent in His Majesty, and, having been enjoyed by all His Royal Progenitors, His Majesty will not believe that His well-affected Subjects will desire to limit Him in that Right.

"His Majesty intends the Garrison of Portsmouth to be of such a Proportion as it was in the Year 1641, except He finds good to enlarge or diminish that Proportion.

"His Majesty cannot give a more full Answer to that Clause concerning the Admission of Forces into any of His Forts, Castles, and Towns, than He hath already given; His Majesty having therein made the Laws and Statutes of the Kingdom the Rule of what is or what is not to be done, which will be always the most impartial Judge between Him and His People.

"Falkland."

"March 29, 1643.

"Concerning an Oath to be taken by all Officers, &c.

Question from the Committee, about an Oath to be taken by all Officers, &c.

"20. We are humbly to desire Your Majesty, that all Generals and Commanders, in any of the Armies on either Side, as likewise the Lord Admiral of England, the Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports, all Commanders of any Ships, and Commanders of any Towns, Castles, or Forts, may take an Oath, to observe the Articles formerly mentioned, and use their uttermost Power to preserve the true Reformed Protestant Religion, and the Peace of the Kingdom, against all Foreign Force, and all other Forces raised without Your Majesty's Authority, and Consent of the Two Houses of Parliament.

"A. Northumberland.
Wm. Pierrepoint.
Wm. Armyne.
John Holland.
B. Whitlocke."

"April 5, 1643.

The King's Answer.

"21. His Majesty conceives the Oaths which all these Officers are already by Law obliged to take to be very fully sufficient; but, if any Thing shall be made appear unto Him necessary to be added thereunto, when there shall be a full and peaceable Convention in Parliament, His Majesty will readily consent to an Act for such an Addition.

"Falkland."

These Papers to be communicated to the H. C. and to be debated by the Committees for the Treaty.

Upon the reading of these Papers, this House Resolved, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, and communicate these Papers unto them; and let them know, that, upon the Perusal of them, their Lordships Apprehensions are, that there is a great Deal of Delay more than they expected, wherein their Lordships receive no Satisfaction; but would not resolve of any Thing positively, until that the Committees of both Houses for the Treaty and Cessation do meet, and debate, and consider what is fit to be done upon these Papers, and to prepare and draw Answers to them, and report them to the Houses; and to desire that the said Committees may meet this Afternoon, at Two of the Clock.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about them.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr. Heath:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, by a Committee of both Houses, touching some Papers received from the Committee at Oxon.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer.

That the House of Commons will give a present Meeting, as is desired.

Sir T. Lucy's Monument, &c. a Pass.

Ordered, That a Pass shall be granted, for Six Waggons, with Horses, and several Persons, to carry down Sir Tho. Lucy's Monument into Warwickeshire, and to return again to London.

Countess of Devon, a Pass.

Ordered, That the Countess of Devon, with her Retinue, shall have a Pass, to pass from Dover to London, as often as she shall have Occasion, with her Coach and Horses and Servants, &c.

Lady Higham, a Pass.

Ordered, That the Lady Higham shall have a Pass, to go from London to Abingdon and Oxford, and back again to London.

Sir Fr. Beneday, a Pass.

Ordered, That Sir Francis Beneday shall have a Pass, to go into France, with his Wife and Family, consisting of Ten Persons, with Two Horses, Goods, and Houshold Stuff.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 2a post meridiem.

Post meridiem.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker.

Mrs. Murray, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mrs. Murrey shall have a Pass, to go to Oxford, and return back again to London, quietly, with her Coach and Four Horses, and other Necessaries as are convenient and necessary for her in her Journey.

Message from the H. C. for Instructions to the Committee at Oxon.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Potts Baronet:

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, so soon as it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, touching some Instructions to be sent to the Committees at Oxon, concerning His Majesty's Answer to the Two First Propositions.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Message from the H. C. with Orders, &c. for Concurrence.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Reynolds, who brought up several Orders and Ordinances, wherein the House of Commons desires their Lordships Concurrence.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Report of the Conference about the Instructions to the Committee at Oxford.

The Speaker reported the Effect of the Conference:

To let their Lordships know, that the Committees (fn. *) have drawn up some Instructions, to be sent to the Committees at Oxford, in Answer to the Papers received this Day, concerning the King's Answer touching the Article for Disbanding both Armies; which the House of Commons have agreed to, with the Addition of a Title and One Instruction more.

The Instructions were read, as followeth. (Here enter them.)

Ordered, That this House agrees with the House of Commons in these Instructions, to be sent to the Committees at Oxon, in a Letter from the Speaker of this House.

Instructions to the Committee at Oxon.

"Additional Instructions for Algernon Earl of Northumb. Wm. Lord Viscount Say & Seale, Wm. Pierepont Esquire, Sir Wm. Armyn, and Sir John Holland, Baronets, Bolstrode Whitlocke Esquire, Committees from both Houses attending His Majesty at Oxford.

Magazines, and enlarging the Time of the Treaty.

"The Two Houses of Parliament are unsatisfied with His Majesty's Answer to that Clause of the First Proposition which concerns the Magazines; wherefore you are to desire His Majesty to make a further Answer, in such Manner as is expressed in the Instructions formerly given you; and you shall let His Majesty know, that the Lords and Commons do not think fit to enlarge the Time of the Treaty beyond the Twenty Days formerly limited.

Cinque Ports, Forts, Towns, and Castles.

"They likewise remain unsatisfied with His Majesty's Answer concerning the Cinque Ports, Towns, Forts, and Castles, being in the most material Points an express Denial; wherefore you are to insist upon their Desire for another Answer, according to your Instructions.

Ships.

"They observe, in His Majesty's Answer concerning the Ships, not only a Denial to all the Desires of both Houses, but likewise a Censure upon the Proceedings: However, you are to insist upon their Desires expressed in your Instructions.

Disbanding.

"They further conceive that His Majesty's Answer to their First Proposition concerning the Disbanding is in Effect a Denial, unless they desert all those Cautions and Limitations which they have desired in their Answer to His Majesty's First Proposition; wherefore you are to proceed insisting upon that Part of their First Proposition concerning Disbanding, according to your Instructions.

The King's Return to the Parliament.

"You shall declare to His Majesty the Desire of both Houses, of His Majesty's coming to His Parliament, which they have often expressed with as full Offers of Security to His Royal Person as was agreeable to their Duty and Allegiance: And they know no Cause why His Majesty may not repair hither with Honour and Safety; but they did not insert it into your Instructions, because they conceived the Disbanding of the Armies would have facilitated His Majesty's Resolution therein, which they likewise conceived was agreeable to His Majesty's Sense, who, in declaring His Consent to the Order of the Treaty, did only mention that Part of the First Proposition which concerned the Disbanding, and did omit that concerning His coming to the Parliament.

Oath of Officers.

"They conceive the ordinary Oaths of the Officers mentioned are not sufficient to secure them against the extraordinary Causes of Jealousy, which have been given them in these troublesome Times; and that His Majesty's Answer lays some Tax upon the Parliament, as if defective, and thereby uncapable of making such a provisional Law for an Oath: Therefore you shall still insist upon their former Desires of such an Oath as is mentioned in your Instructions.

Enlarging the Time.

"If you shall not have received His Majesty's positive Answer to the humble Desire of both Houses in these Two First Propositions, according as they are expressed in your Instructions, before the Twenty Days limited for the Treaty shall be expired, you shall then with convenient Speed repair to the Parliament, without expecting any further Direction."

Adjourn.

House adjourned to 10a Lunæ.

Footnotes

* Bis in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. having.