House of Lords Journal Volume 4
25 January 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 25 January 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 141-144. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35506 Date accessed: 21 October 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 25 die Januarii.

Kirk and West qualify for Naturalization.

This Day, before Prayers, John and James Kirke, and Mary now Wife of John West, before the reading of the Bill for their Naturalization, took the Oath of Supremacy and Allegiance, at the End of the Lord Keeper's Wool-sack, in his Presence, the Clerk of the Parliament reading the Oath; and delivered in a Certificate for their receiving the Sacrament within a Month before the exhibiting of their Bill, as followeth: videlicet.

Be it known to all whom these Presents shall concern, That John Kirke, James Kirke, and Mary West, the Wife of John West, of London, Gentleman, have been, and are, diligent Resorters to the Church, and frequent and reverent Receivers of the Blessed Sacrament of the Lord's Supper, and did receive the same upon the Twenty-third Day of January, in reverent Manner, within the Parish Church of St. Andrew Undershaft, London. And this I Henry Vesey, Minister, Curate of the said Parish, who did then and there minister the same unto them and every of them, do seriously and sincerely testify the same, this 23d Day of January 1640.

"By me, Henry Vesey, Curat. ibidem."

PRAYERS.

Examinations concerning the Attainder of the Earl of Castlehaven.

Memorandum, That the Lord Coventry, according to an Order on Saturday last, delivered in certain Papers, in Number Seventeen; being Examinations of several Parties in the Case of the Earl of Castlehaven.

Witness in the Earl of Strafford's Cause.

After this, the Lord Rannelaugh was sworn in the Case of the Earl of Strafford, and received an Injunction for Secrecy.

Next, the Lord Privy Seal reported His Majesty's Speech at Whitehall, made to both Houses of Parliament as followeth:

Report of the King's Speech at Whitehall.

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

A principal Cause of My Coming here now is, That I foresee the great Inconveniencies that may daily arise, by the slow Pace of this Parliament in those Businesses that most import the Welfare of this Kingdom.

Therefore I hold it necessary at this Time, to lay shortly before you the State of Affairs as now they stand, thereby to quicken, but not to interrupt, your Proceedings.

And first I must remember you, that there are Two Armies in the very Bosom of this Kingdom, and in Effect (as it cannot be otherwise) maintained by you; the very naming of which doth more livelily represent the mischievous Inconveniencies thereof, than a better Tongue than Mine in particular can declare. Therefore I must, in the first Place, recommend to your Care the quick Dispatch of this Business; assuring you the Delay thereof shall no ways be occasioned by Me.

In the next Place, I must recommend to your Care My Navy and Forts; the Condition of both which are so well known as I need not mention the Particulars; only thus much, when the Walls and Defences of this Kingdom are weak and out of Order, I leave all Men to judge what Disheartening it will give to our Friends, and Encouragement to our Enemies.

Last of all (though not least of all to be considered), I must lay before you the present Distractions of Government, occasioned partly because of the Parliament, not by it; for some Men, taking Occasion now by the Sitting thereof (more maliciously than ignorantly), will put no Difference betwixt Reformation and Alteration of Government. Hence it comes that Divine Service is irreverently interrupted, Petitions tumultuously given, and much of My Revenue detained or disputed.

More Particulars I will not mention, because I will hasten to put you in a Way of Remedy; which I will do, first, by shewing you My clear Intentions; then by warning you to eschew those Rocks that may hinder this good Work.

First then know, That I shall willingly concur with you to find out and reform all Innovations in Church and Commonwealth; and consequently, that all Courts of Justice shall be regulated according to Law; My Intention being to reduce all Matters of Religion and Government to what they were in the purest Times of Queen Elizabeth's Days.

Moreover, what Parts of My Revenue that shall be found illegal or grievous to the Public, I shall willingly lay down, relying entirely upon the Affections of My People.

Having thus clearly shewn you My Intentions, I will now tell you what you are to eschew; to which Purpose I cannot but take Notice of those Petitions (I cannot tell how to call them), given in the Name of several Counties, against the present established Government of the Church; and of the great Threats that are given out, that Bishops shall be no better than Cyphers, if not clean done away.

Now I must clearly tell you, That I make a great Difference betwixt Reformation and Alteration of Government; though I am for the first, I cannot give Way to the latter. I will not say, but that Bishops may have over-stretched their Power, or incroached upon the Temporal; which if you find, correct and reform the Abuse, according to the Wisdom of former Times; so far I am with you.

Nay further, if, upon serious Debate, you shall shew Me, that Bishops have some Temporal Authority inconvenient to the State, and not so necessary to the Church for the Support of the Episcopacy, I shall not be unwilling to persuade them to lay it down; yet, by this, you must not understand that I can consent for the taking away of their Voice in Parliament, which they have so anciently enjoyed under so many of My Predecessors, even before the Conquest, and ever since; and which I conceive that I am bound to maintain, as one of the fundamental Institutions of this Kingdom.

There is but one other Rock, and that not in Substance, but in Form; yet that Form is so essential, that, except it be reformed, it will mar the Substance. There is a Bill given in for frequent Parliaments: The Thing I like; that is to say, to have often Parliaments; but to give Power to Sheriffs and Constables, and I know not whom, to do My Office, that I cannot yield unto: But, to shew you that I am desirous to please you in Forms (which destroy not the Substance), I am content you shall have an Act for this Purpose, but so reformed, that it neither trench on Mine Honour, nor on that inseparable Right of My Crown concerning Parliaments. To which Purpose I have commanded My Learned Counsel to wait on you, My Lords, with such Propositions as I hope will give Contentment; for I ingenuously confess that frequent Parliaments is the best Means to preserve that right Understanding betwixt Me and My Subjects, which I so heartily desire.

To conclude all, I have now shewed you the State of Affairs, My own clear Intentions, and the Rocks I wish you to eschew; in all which you may perceive the Desire I have to give you Contentment, as you shall likewise find by those Ministers I have and intend to employ in My Assairs, for the Pursuance of My good Intention; which I doubt not but will bring Peace and Happiness to My Subjects, to the Contentment of us all. I have no more to say for this present.

"My Lords, I hear of a Conference you have had this Day with the House of Commons; concerning which, upon Monday next, I will send you a Message, and the Reasons of what I have done, which I hope shall satisfy you."

Message from the King concerning Goodman.

After this the Lord Keeper signified to the House, That His Majesty had commanded him to let their Lordships know, That the Occasion of His Majesty's taking Knowledge of the Conviction of John Goodman, the Priest, lately reprieved, was, upon the constant Order that hath been taken for divers Years, that the Recorder hath, at the End of every Session, attended His Majesty with the Names of the Persons convicted, with an Expression of their Offences, to the End that His Majesty might be truly informed of the Natures of their Crimes, and consequently not to be hindered, by Misinformation, to reprieve such as were not fit for Grace and Mercy; and therefore, finding that he the said Goodman was now lately condemned for being in Orders of a Priest merely, and was acquitted of the Charge of perverting the King's People in their Belief, and had never been condemned or banished before; His Majesty is tender in Matter of Blood in Cases of this Nature, in which Queen Eliz. and King James have been often merciful: But, to secure His People that this Man shall do no Hurt, He is willing that he be imprisoned or banished, as their Lordships shall advise; and, if he return into the Kingdom, to be put to Execution without Delay; and He will take such fit Course for the expulsing of other Priests and Jesuits as He shall be counseled unto by your Lordships; and that he doth not intend, by this particular Mercy, to lessen the Force of the Laws.

This being ended; the Lords resolved upon a Conference with the House of Commons, to that Purpose; and sent a Message, by Mr. Serjeant Ayliff and Mr. Attorney General, to this Purpose:

Message to the H. C. for a Conference concerning Goodman the Priest.

That their Lordships do desire a Conference presently, with a Committee of both Houses, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Conference on Saturday last, about the reprieving of the Priest.

Witness in the E. of Strafford's Cause. Sir Pierce Crosbie to be sreed from Arrests.

Sir Pierce Grosebie was sworn as a Witness in the Earl of Strafford's Cause, and received an Injunction for Secrecy. And the House did Order (in regard he is threatened with many Arrests), That he shall have the Privilege of this House, to protect him, during the Time that this House examine him in the aforesaid Cause.

A Proclamation to be issued concerning the Lord Keeper Finch.

It was moved, That a Proclamation be sent forth, whereby the Lord Keeper Finch, being accused of High Treason by the House of Commons, may take Notice of it, and come in at a certain Day to his Trial; but the further Consideration of this was respited until To-morrow Morning; in the mean Time, the Lord Keeper is appointed to give the House an Account of the ancient Manner of Proceedings in Cases of this Nature.

L. Phil. Herbert's Cause.

Ordered, That the Lord Phillip Herbert's Business is deferred until To-morrow in the Afternoon.

Answer to the Message concerning Goodman.

The Answer from the House of Commons was: That they will give a Meeting presently, as is desired.

The Lord Privy Seal, Earl Marshal, and the Earl of Dorsett, were appointed by the House, to deliver and report the Conference.

Conference reported.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went forth to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Privy Seal reported to the House, That, according to their Lordships Command, he had delivered the Message to the House of Commons, concerning Goodman the Priest.

Order concerning Mr. Longevile's Cause.

Ordered, That Mr. Longevile's Cause be heard on Thursday Morning next, at the Bar; and the Judges, or as many as conveniently can, to be then present, to hear the Counsel.

Mr. Heily's Book delivered in from the Archbp. of Canterbury.

After this, Mr. Maxwell returned the Petition of Mr. Heily, and the Book, together with an Answer from the Archbishop of Cant. That the Book was delivered to him by the Bishop of Hereford, Dr. Lindesy, who told him, in his Judgement, there were some Things in the Book incoherent; and the House Ordered, That the Book be delivered to the Owner.

Report concerning Beeton versus Barker.

The Earl of Bath reported from the Lords Committees, That they have further taken the Cause into Consideration of Bceton, a Constable of North'tonshire, fetched up by Barker, a Messenger to the Lords of the Council, for refusing to pay Ship-money; and being released from the Council Table, was detained by the said Messenger in Custody, until he had paid Four Pounds for Fees: For this illegal Act, all the Lords Committees have thought fit and reasonable that Beeton should have Restitution of the Four Pounds, but the Difference was, who should restore it; therefore, the Lords Committees desired the Advice of the House herein; for debating whereof the House was put into a Committee, during Pleasure; and the House being resumed, nothing was resolved of.

Message from the H. C. for a Conference concerning the Treaty of both Kingdoms.

A Message from the House of Commons, was brought by Mr. Henry Belasis, to this Purpose: That the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses, of the Commons, assembled in Parliament, do desire a present Conference, with their Lordships, by a Committee of both Houses, concerning the last Conference, touching the Treaty of both Kingdoms.

Answer.

The Answer to the said Message was: That their Lordships will give a Meeting presently, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

The Earl of Bath, Earl of Dorsett, Earl of Warwicke, and Earl of Bristoll, were appointed to (fn. *) report the Conference.

The House was adjourned, during Pleasure; and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Earl of Bath reported the Conference, which in Effect was:

Conference reported, concerning friendly Assistance of the Scots.

"To let their Lordships know, that, upon serious Deliberation, the House of Commons hath Resolved, That they think fit that a friendly Assistance and Relief shall be given, towards Supply of the Losses and Necessities of the Scotts; and that, in due Time, they will take into Consideration the Measure and Manner of it."

Scots Commissioners to be acquainted with the Resolution of the Commons.

After some Consideration hereof had; it was moved, That the Scotts Commissioners might be made acquainted with the Message from the House of Commons; hereupon it was thought fit, That the Lords Commissioners do shew unto the Scotts the Paper which the House of Commons brought up at the Conference.

Beeton to be paid Damages.

Ordered, That it is the Opinion of this House, that Beeton be re-paid his Four Pounds between this and Tomorrow Morning.

Subsidy Bill.

Ordered, That the Bill of Subsidies be read Tomorrow Morning.

Witnesses sworn in Sir Richard Wiseman's Cause:

Witnesses sworn in Sir Richard Wiseman's Cause.

Antho. Cogan.
Tho. Birkett.
Jo. Hawes.
Jo. Maynard.
Hearcourt Leighton, Esquire.
Henry Dennis.
Sarah Shaw.
Wm. Hudson.
Jo. Murry.
Wm. Proudlove.
Susannah Shaw.
Steven Holme.
Fra. Whittfield.
Sir Edward Bishop, Baronet.
Wm. Biarley, Esquire.
Eliz. Chaucey.
Sir Edm. Plowden.
Peter Simon.
Wm. Greene, Esquire.
Tho. Halliwell.

Witnesses. Jay contra Arnold.

Witnesses sworn in Causa Jay contra Arnold:

Eliza. Dalling.
Catherine Gyles.
Jo. Fremantle.
Geo. Haughton.
Alexander Hun.

Witnesses sworn in Causa Walker contra Sir Jo. Lambe:

Witnesses. Walker versus Sir John Lambe.

Mr. Edm. Johnston.
Jo. Corke.
Tho. Owen.
Edward Larkin.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Martis, videlicet, 26m diem instantis Januarii, hora nona, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Origin. be report.