House of Lords Journal Volume 4
9 September 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 9 September 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 393-396. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35692 Date accessed: 28 July 2014.


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Contents

DIE Jovis, videlicet, 9 die Septembris.
Money in the Poor's Box distributed. Steward's Order about Records. Mixing Wines. Message to the H. C. about the Commissioners sent to Scotland. Sir George Radcliffe, about Osboldeston's Estate. Busby versus Smith in Error. Answer from the H. C. Message from the H. C. for Conference, about sending Troops to Foreign Parts, and Instructions for the Commissioners to Scotland. Answer. Cook versus Blackston: Delinquents in Sir William Killigrew's Cause. Order for Viscount Loftus's Cause to be heard. Conference concerning Instructions for the Commissioners to Scotland, and about levying Irish Troops for Spain. Instructions for the Committee at Edinburgh, about the Spanish Ambassador contracting with the disdanded Soldiers. Reasons against levying Soldiers for the King of Spain. Ordinance about transporting Troops out of the King's Dominions. Message to the H. C. for Committees to meet during the Recess. Committee to correspond with the Committees at Edinburgh during the Recess. Answer. Order concerning Divine Service. Protest against the Order concerning Divine Service and Ceremonies. The Order to be published. Message to the H. C. to join in it. Message from the H. C. about the Ordinance, &c. Prayer on the Thanksgiving Day at Lincoln. Irish Affairs and the Plague. Answer. Thanksgiving Prayer at Lincoln. Irish Causes transmitted here. Plague. Message to the H. C. about publishing the Order concerning the Plague. Letters from Scotland. Orders concerning Divine Service. Answer from the H. C. Message from the H. C. about the Recess. Committee empowered to re-call the Committee from Scotland. Bishop of Lincoln to make his Visitation. Bishops to answer the Impeachment. Adjourn. Footnotes

DIE Jovis, videlicet, 9 die Septembris.

PRAYERS.

Money in the Poor's Box distributed.

This Day the Money in the Poor's Box, being Four and Thirty Pounds, was distributed.

Steward's Order about Records.

Ordered, That the Copies of Records in Ireland, concerning Mr. Steward's Cause, shall be delivered into this House upon Oath, to remain with the Clerk of the Parliament until the Hearing of his said Cause before the Lords Committees for Petitions, which is hereby appointed to be heard on Friday the 10th of December next; against which Time the Defendants are to have convenient Warning to attend the Hearing, and make their Defence in the said Cause, which Records were attested to be true Copies, by one Gosse, upon Oath.

Mixing Wines.

Ordered, That the Bill against sophisticating of Wines shall be ingrossed.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. about the Commissioners sent to Scotland.

To desire them to hasten what Business they have to communicate to this House, touching the Committees of both Houses sent into Scotland.

Sir George Radcliffe, about Osboldeston's Estate.

Upon reading the Petition of Sir George Radcliffe, Knight, trusted with the Estate of Sir Richard Osboldeston, Knight, deceased; it is Ordered, that the Writings concerning the Estate of the said Sir Richard Osboldeston shall still remain and continue under the same Trust that the said Sir Richard did leave them, and in whose Custody they now are; but when Henry Marten and Henry Fowles, Esquires (Trustees, by Order of this House, of the Personal and Real Estate of the said Sir Richard to the Use of Wm. Osboldeston his Son), or either of them, shall have Occasion to see and peruse the said Writings, they are hereby authorized to have free Recourse unto them, and peruse them accordingly, so that it be in the Presence of Sir Thomas Witherington, Knight, Mr. William Tyndall, and Mr. Richard Elmeburst, Trustees for the said Writings, in whose Custody they now remain, by having several Keys in their own Possessions, or otherwise, in the Presence of the said Sir Thomas Witherington, in whose House they now are.

Busby versus Smith in Error.

Ordered, That the Writ of Error between Smith and Busby shall be argued in this House, by Counsel on both Sides, on Friday the Twenty-second of October next, at which Time all the Judges are hereby desired to be present.

The Messengers returned with this Answer from the House of Commons:

Answer from the H. C.

That they will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, in convenient Time.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Waller:

Message from the H. C. for Conference, about sending Troops to Foreign Parts, and Instructions for the Commissioners to Scotland.

To desire a present Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the restraining of Foreign Forces to be transported to serve any Foreign Parts, and also touching some Instructions to be sent to the Committees of both Houses into Scotland.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

The Lord Privy Seal, Comes Bedford, and The Bishop of Lincolne,

Were appointed to report the Conference.

Cook versus Blackston:

Ordered, That the whole Business between John Cooke, Clerk, Plaintiff, against Benjamin Blackston, Clerk, Defendant, consisting of Matters of Law, and hath formerly had Proceedings both in the Court of King's Bench and Common Pleas, shall, by virtue of this Order, be referred to the Consideration of the Two Lord Chief Justices of the said Courts, who, having considered of the said Cause, are to certify the Estate of the same unto this House on the First Day of the next Term, with their Opinions therein; and further it is Ordered, That the Profits of the Thing in Question shall, in the mean Time, be sequestered by the Churchwardens of the said Parish, by the Oversight of the next Justice of the Peace; and lastly it is Ordered, That, if the said Blackston shall demean himself otherwise than well befits him, and that Oath be made thereof unto the said Justice, that then the said Justice shall bind him the said Blackston to the Peace; and also that he shall be bound by the said Justice in the Sum of Five Hundred Pounds unto the King, to appear in this House upon the said First Day of the next Term, at which Time this House will further consider of this Business.

Delinquents in Sir William Killigrew's Cause.

Ordered, That such Delinquents as are, or shall be, apprehended by the Gentleman-usher, or his Deputy, in Sir William Killegrewe's Cause, between this and the 20th of October next, shall be released of their present Restraint, upon their entering into Bond of One Hundred Pounds a Man, in the Parliament Office, with Condition to render themselves in the said Gentleman-usher's Custody, and to appear before this House on the Twenty-fifth of October next; but, if Sir William Killegrewe make not good his Charge against them, then he is to repay them their Fees and Charges, which they shall expend in this Business.

Order for Viscount Loftus's Cause to be heard.

It is this Day Ordered by the Lords in Parliament, That the Cause of the Lord Viscount Loftus, which was brought up from the House of Commons, shall be heard before the Lords in Parliament on Thursday the 4th of November next, at Nine of the Clock in the Morning, in the House; and that the Earl of Ormond, Robert Lord Dillon, Sir Adam Loftus, Knight, Sir George Sherly, Knight, Sir William Parsons, Knight, Sir Gerrard Lowther, Knight, Sir Richard Bowlton, Knight, Christofer Wandisford, Esquire, Sir John Burlace, Knight, Sir Phillip Manwaring, Knight, Sir Charles Coote, Knight, Sir George Radcliffe, Knight, Sir Robert Meredith, Knight, Sir Paule Davis, Knight, Sir George Wentworth, and Sir John Gifford, Knights, are, at the Day prefixed, to attend their Lordships, so that they have Notice thereof Six Weeks before the said Hearing; upon which Notice, they are, either of themselves, or their Counsel, Solicitors, or Agents, to attend the Lords at the said Hearing.

Conference concerning Instructions for the Commissioners to Scotland, and about levying Irish Troops for Spain.

Then the House was adjourned (fn. *) during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Privy Seal reported,

"That the House of Commons delivered Two Papers at this Conference:

"One containing Instructions agreed by the Commons to be sent to the Committees in Scotland, touching the transporting of Soldiers out of Ireland, for the Service of the King of Spaine.

"The Second Paper was concerning raising and transporting of Forces out of His Majesty's Dominions, etc. In both which the House of Commons desires their Lordships to join with (fn. †) them."

Then, by the Command of the House, the First Paper was read, intituled,

"Instructions agreed by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, upon the 9th Day of September 1641, to be sent to the Committees of both Houses, now attending His Majesty at Edinborough.

Instructions for the Committee at Edinburgh, about the Spanish Ambassador contracting with the disdanded Soldiers.

"Whereas we have received Information from you, as likewise from Mr. Secretary Vane, concerning the Complaint of the Spanish Ambassador about the Stay of Four Thousand Men to be raised in His Majesty's Dominions, and Ships for transporting the same:

You shall, in the Name of both Houses of Parliament, humbly present the true State of proceeding in Parliament concerning that Business, in this Manner:

"When His Majesty was pleased to acquaint both Houses with the Desires of the French and Spanish Ambassadors to transport Forces out of England and Ireland, His Majesty did withall graciously express His Resolution not to consent to those Desires without the Consent of His Parliament.

"Both Houses have searched their Journals, and find by them that not only they never made any Expression of such a Consent (as they can make no such by Order), but that both Houses have by Vote declared their Opinions to the contrary, and have inclosed the Copy of those Votes.

"That the Parliament cannot but wonder that any Person should presume to inform His Majesty that they had made any such Expression, having made no such Vote; which they conceive to be destructive to the Proceedings, and contrary to the Privileges, of Parliament.

"And this being the State of the Matter of Fact, the Parliament doth no less wonder, and conceives it a high Injury to them, that the Spanish Ambassador should offer a Complaint of them to His Majesty for doing of that which (His Majesty having referred the Consideration of the Ambassador's Desires to Parliament) they could not but do without manifest Breach of their Duties, as Counsellors in this His Majesty's Great Council of Parliament, for the Reasons following:

Reasons against levying Soldiers for the King of Spain.

"1. That the Want in which Foreign States stand of Men is such, that great Use may be made of them by His Majesty, and advantageous Conditions had for them in the making or strengthening of Alliances Abroad, as His Affairs and Reason of State may require, which will be left (as to so many, and we fear as to more, which under Colour of these may be transported) if these Men should be thus parted with.

"2. That the breeding of Irish Papists in a Foreign War may beget Danger to that Kingdom, and Trouble to this, especially serving under the King of Spaine, there being already in His Dominions, and in His Armies, Fugitives of that Nation, and that in great Commands over Militia of the same.

"3. That His Majesty having sent an Extraordinary Ambassador to Ratisbone, to demand that, in this present Diet, Justice be done to the Electoral House by the House of Austria, and likewise published a Manifesto, by Advice of Parliament, declaring, that if this be not done by them (with whom, how the Interests of Spaine are involved and interwoven is evident to all Men), His Majesty will employ all such Power wherewith God hath enabled Him, both by His own Arms and the Assistance of all His Allies, to vindicate His Honour. The Parliament conceives that, before Answer be made to this so just Demand, it is neither safe nor honourable for His Majesty to furnish that Prince with Forces, which may be a Disheartening to the Protestant Party abroad, a Weakening to His Majesty, and a Strength to his Enemies, in case Justice be not done to the Electoral House; which they conceive themselves to have the more Cause to doubt, by reason of the Publication in Print of the late general Amnesty, to the Exclusion of the Prince Palatine."

Then it was Resolved, upon the Question, nemine contradicente, That this House joins with the House of Commons herein.

The Second Paper was read: videlicet,

"An Ordinance made and agreed upon by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, the 9th of September 1641, concerning the raising and transporting of Forces of Horse and Foot out of His Majesty's Dominions of England and Ireland.

Ordinance about transporting Troops out of the King's Dominions.

"For the Safety and Defence of this Kingdom, and for the better enabling of His Majesty to aid and assist His Allies Abroad; it is Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament, That none of His Majesty's Subjects shall treat or consent with any Foreign Prince or State, or the Ambassadors, Agents, or other Ministers, of any such Prince or State, concerning the raising or transporting any Forces, either Horse or Foot, to be employed in the Service of any such Prince or State.

"That it shall not be lawful for any Owner or Master of any Ships, in either the said Kingdoms, to contract or agree for the transporting of any Forces, Horse or Foot, out of this Kingdom, for the Service of any Foreign Prince or State.

"And that no such Forces shall be raised, transported, or employed, by any Person whatsoever, in the Service of any Foreign Power or State, without the special Licence of His Majesty, with the Consent and Advice of the Lords and Commons in Parliament.

"It is further Ordered, That none of the Ships of any of His Majesty's Subjects of England or Ireland, which are or shall be employed in the Service of any Foreign Prince, shall be used or employed against any Forces which shall be any where commanded by His Majesty's Commission, by Sea or Land; but that such of His Majesty's Subjects as are in any such Service shall forthwith withdraw themselves from the same, and refuse to bear Arms in any such Case.

"It is lastly Ordained, That whosoever shall contemn or disobey this Ordinance shall be taken to be a high Contemner of His Majesty's Authority, and of both Houses of Parliament, and shall be liable to such further Censure of Parliament as shall stand with Honour and Justice in that Behalf; this Ordinance to continue and be in Force no longer but to the First Day of November next ensuing."

Resolved, upon the Question, by the major Part, That this House joins with the House of Commons in this Ordinance, with the Alteration of the Continuance of it till the First of November next.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. for Committees to meet during the Recess.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Instructions and Ordinance presented this Morning from them, and touching a Committee to be appointed to meet during the Time of the Recess, to receive and answer the Letters which shall come from the Committees in Scotland, and to do other Things as shall be directed by the Houses.

Committee to correspond with the Committees at Edinburgh during the Recess.

Ordered, That these Lords following shall have Power from this House, to join with a select Committee of the House of Commons, to receive and open the Letters which shall (in Time of the Recess) come from the Committees of both Houses out of Scotland, and to return Answers, according to Instructions given to the Committees already; and to have Power to re-call the said Committees in Scotland when they shall think fit; and to assist about disbanding the Army, and removing the Magazines at Barwicke and Carlile, and sending down Monies to the Army, if Need be: And that these Lords Committees are to make Report of the same to this House at the next Meeting; and lastly, to give Notice to the said Committees in Scotland to direct their Letters to the Lord Keeper: videlicet,

The L. Keeper.
The L. Privy Seal.
L. Chamberlain.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Clare.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Cleveland.
Comes Dover.
Comes Newport.
Comes Portland.
Epus. Lincolne.
Ds. Mowbray.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Wentworth.
Ds. Kymbolton.
Ds. Pierpointe.
Ds. Dunsemore.

Their Lordships, or any Three of them or more, to meet on Tuesday next at Two a Clock, in the Afternoon, in this House, and at such other Times as they shall please to appoint.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

Answer.

That they will give a present Meeting, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Order concerning Divine Service.

It being in Debate concerning the printing and publishing of an Order touching Divine Service; it was Resolved, upon the Question, by the major Part, That this House will vote the printing and publishing of the Order made the 16th of January, 1640, concerning Divine Service, before this House desires a Conference with the House of Commons concerning that Particular.

Lords dissenting, and making Protestation against the Vote, having demanded their Right of Protestation, of the House, before the putting of the Question so to do:

Comes Bedford.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Clare.
Comes Newport.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Kymbolton.

"The Protestation:

Protest against the Order concerning Divine Service and Ceremonies.

"After the Debate about the Printing and Publishing of the Order of the 16th of January last, videlicet, "That the Divine Service be performed as it is appointed by the Acts of Parliament of this Realm; and that all such as shall disturb that wholesome Order shall be severely punished, according to Law; and that all Parsons, Vicars, and Curates, in their several Parishes, shall forbear to introduce any Rites or Ceremonies, otherwise than those which are established by the Laws of this Land:" It being put to the Question, whether the Lords would Order that it should be voted, That the said Order of the 16th of January should be printed and published, before a Conference desired with the House of Commons about it; we, whose Names are underwritten, did disassent; and having, before the putting of the Question, demanded our Right of Protestation, did accordingly make our Protestation, That we held it fit and necessary to have the Consent of the House of Commons in those Things which concern so nearly the Quiet and Government of the Church; and therefore we desired to have a Conference with the House of Commons before any conclusive Order were printed or published herein, especially the House of Commons having but lately brought to us, and desired the Consent of our House unto, certain Votes of theirs against Innovations in or about the Worship of God lately practised in this Kingdom, without Warrant of Law; and therefore, to acquit ourselves of the Dangers and Inconveniences that might arise by the printing and publishing of the said Order of the 16th of January as binding to the whole Kingdom, without desiring the Consent of the House of Commons, we do protest our Disassents to this Vote, and do thus enter it as aforesaid:

"Comes Bedford.
"Comes Warwicke.
"Comes Clare.
"Comes Newport.
"Ds. Wharton.
"Ds. Kymbolton."

This House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Resolved upon the Question, by the major Part,

The Order to be published.

That the Order, made the 16th of January 1640, touching the Performance of the Divine Service according to the Laws and Statutes of this Kingdom, shall be printed and published.

Message to the H. C. to join in it.

Hereupon it is Ordered, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, to desire them to join herein with this House.

Then a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

To desire a present Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Performance of the Divine Service according to the Laws and Statutes of this Kingdom.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Arthur Goodwin:

Message from the H. C. about the Ordinance, &c.

"1. He said, he was commanded by the House of Commons to return the Instructions and Ordinance of Parliament, which they agree to, with the Amendments.

Prayer on the Thanksgiving Day at Lincoln.

"2. He brought up a printed Paper, being a Prayer made for the Diocese of Lincolne, to be said on the Day of Thanksgiving; and that the House of Commons desires to know whether the Lord Bishop of Lincolne made or enjoined it, and whether the said Prayer was allowed by this House.

Irish Affairs and the Plague.

"3. To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the transmitting of some Irish Affairs; and touching the Orders concerning the Persons that are infected with the Plague."

The Answer hereunto returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give a Meeting presently, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

Thanksgiving Prayer at Lincoln.

As for the Prayer of Thanksgiving, the Bishop of Lincolne confesses he made it, but did not enjoin the same; and that the said Prayer was not done by Order of this House.

The Lord Bishop of Lincolne and the Lord Pierpointe were appointed to report this Conference; and to deliver the Copy of the Order of the 16th of January, with the Vote of this House concerning the same, and to desire the House of Commons to join with this House therein.

Irish Causes transmitted here.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Bishop of Lincolne reported the Effect of the Conference: videlicet, "That the House of Commons have transmitted divers Irish Causes, with a Recommendation that their Lordships will appoint a Day for a consider of them. As, the Cause of the

"L. Dillon, Memorandum, The Lord Bishop of Lincolne is hereafter to make a further Report concerning the particular Charges, as was delivered by Mr. Pym."
"L. Netterfeild,
"L. Viscount Loftus,
"L. Mountnorris,
"Mr. Fay.

Plague.

And further his Lordship reported, "That the House of Commons have assented to the Orders concerning the Ordering of Persons that are infected with the Plague, with some Amendments and Additions;" to which this House agreed, and Ordered the same to be printed and published.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. about publishing the Order concerning the Plague.

Letters from Scotland.

To let them know, that this House consents to the Orders concerning the Ordering of infected Persons, and have Ordered the same to be printed; and further, to know whether they will appoint a select Committee of their House, to join with a Committee of Seventeen Lords, whereof Three to be of the Quorum, as was propounded at the Conference this Day, to open Letters which come from the Committees in Scotland, etc.

Orders concerning Divine Service.

The Bishop of Lincolne reported further: "That he had delivered, at the Conference, what he was commanded, concerning the Order touching Divine Service."

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That the House of Commons will return an Answer forthwith, by Messengers of their own.

Then a Message was brought from the House of Commons, by the Lord Viscount Faulkland:

Message from the H. C. about the Recess.

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons have made a Committee, to have the same Power as the Committee of this House, to sit during the Time of the Recess, as they shall please: and desired that the Committee of this House may have Power to recall the Committees in Scotland, when they shall think fit.

Committee empowered to re-call the Committee from Scotland.

Ordered, That the Lords Committees shall have Power from this (fn. *) House, to re-call the Committees in Scotland Home when it shall be thought convenient and fit.

The Answer given to the Messengers was:

That this House hath given Power to the Lords Committees, to send for the Lords Committees in Scotland Home; and that the Lords Committees have appointed to sit on Tuesday next, and so have Power to sit and adjourn as they please.

Bishop of Lincoln to make his Visitation.

Upon Signification this Day to this House by the Lord Bishop of Lincolne, "That his Lordship was determined, between this and the next Meeting of Parliament, to visit his Diocese in his own Person; it is Ordered, That the said Lord Bishop of Lincolne shall, in his said Visitation, take Order to put in Practice Two several Orders of this House, the one made the 16th of January 1640, and the other the First of March last past.

Bishops to answer the Impeachment.

It is Ordered, That the Lords the Bishops that now stand charged in this House by Impeachment from the House of Commons, concerning the making of the late Canons, and granting the Benevolence, shall put (fn. †) in their Answers to the said Impeachment the 10th Day of November, in the Morning.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Mercurii, videlicet, 20m diem Octobris, 1641, hora 9a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
Origin. them in.
* Origin. Power.
Deest in Originali.