House of Lords Journal Volume 4
20 November 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 20 November 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 448-450. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35720 Date accessed: 20 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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DIE Sabbati, videlicet, 20 die Novembris.

PRAYERS.

Mr. Parramour, concerning Subsidy and Poll-money.

Mr. Parramour this Day gave an Account unto this House of those Lords and Dowagers as have not paid Subsidies and Poll-money; and it is Ordered, That those Peers and Dowagers that do not pay their Subsidies and Poll-money by the End of this Term shall have their Names returned into the Exchequer, and be proceeded against there according to Law.

Venetian Ambassador's Answer concerning Priests.

The Lord Brooke reported to this House, "That he had acquainted the Venetian Ambassador with the Order of this House concerning Priests and Jesuits; and the Ambassador saith, he hath none that are the King's native Subjects; if he had any such, he would discharge them: As for Father Jones and Father Phillips, he says, he knows none such."

Sir Matthew Mennes, about concurrent Leases from the Church of Cant.

Upon Complaint made this Day unto the House, on the Behalf of Sir Mathew Mennes, Knight of the Bath, "That the Archbishop of Canterbury had made some concurrent Leases of the Leases of the said Sir Mathew Mennes, in the County of Kent, which concurrent Leases are speedily to be confirmed by the Dean and Chapter of Canterbury, much to the Prejudice of the said Matthew, who hath a Petition concerning the same now in this House, which cannot yet be heard:" It is therefore thought fit, and so Ordered, That the said Dean and Chapter shall be hereby wished, from this House, to forbear to make any Confirmation of the said Leases; but that the said Sir Mathew Mennes may stand seised of his said Leases until Counsel be heard on both Sides, and this House shall give further Order therein.

L. Cromwell to be examined in Lord Loftus's Cause.

Ordered, That any Two of the Lords Committees for Petitions shall have Power, by virtue of this Order, to examine the Lord Cromewell, in the Cause of the Lord Loftus, upon the Impeachment brought up from the House of Commons; whose Examination is to be made Use of at the Time of the Hearing of the said Cause, in case the said Lord Cromewell cannot be then present; yet nevertheless it is their Lordships Pleasure, that the Defendants, in the said Cause, or their Agents, shall have Notice what the said Lord Cromwell shall be examined upon, that they may cross examine him if they think good, who are to take the like Benefit of his Lordship's Testimony as the said Lord Loftus is hereby enabled to do.

Phillips's Petition for his Enlargement.

After this, the Petition of Robert Phillips the Priest was read; "craving Pardon for having formerly presented to their Lordships such Petitions as have not afforded expected Satisfaction, which he humbly beseecheth may not not be imputed to his Backwardness, but rather unto Want of Experience in forming Petitions of that Nature; and further beseecheth their Lordships to believe that, from his Heart, he is sorry for having administered unto their Lordships any Occasion of so high an Offence, by letting fall Words touching the Bible of the Church of England; and professeth that his Design was not to affront their Lordships, or the Professed Religion of this Kingdom; but merely to assure their Lordships, that, as all Catholick Subjects have ever done, so he did neither refuse to swear upon the English Bible, nor held himself disobliged to answer truly whatsoever was demanded.

"He therefore humbly beseecheth their Lordships to pardon this his great Offence, upon this his humble Submission and Acknowledgement, and to grant his Enlargement; assuring their Lordships he is most willing and ready not only to depose the Truth (as by his Oath he is bound) in whatsoever shall be interrogated in this particular Cause, but also shall ever pray, etc."

Upon this, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Doctor Littleton:

Message to the H. C. to acquaint them their Lordships were inclined to discharge him.

To let them know, That whereas the House of Commons, hearing that this House had committed Robert Phillips, Priest, upon their Desire, their Lordships did Order, That he should not be delivered out of Prison until they were first made acquainted therewith; that the said Robert Phillips, by humble Petition, this Day hath given their Lordships Satisfaction for the Offence done to this House; for which their Lordships are inclined to pardon him, but will not release him of his Imprisonment before they had acquainted them therewith, according to their Lordships former Engagement.

List of Recusants Names that are to be secured.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Vane, Junior; who presented a List of such Recusants Names as the House of Commons desires may be secured, for the Safety of the Kingdom.

Four Ships for Ireland.

And also brought up an Order of Parliament, to give Power to the Lord Admiral, to set forth Four Ships, for the Service of Ireland; and desired this House to join with the House of Commons therein.

Letters from the Justices of Ireland.

Next a Letter, written from the Justices of Ireland, was read, directed to the Lord Keeper, dated the 13th of November 1641.

Another Letter was read, from the Justices of Ireland, dated the 13th of November 1641, directed to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. The principal Particulars contained therein were these:

They desire Ships.

"That some Ships may be appointed, to (fn. *) guard the Coasts of Ireland.

"That the Rebels have taken divers Houses and Castles.

"That they have spoiled the County of Cavan, and have made a Remonstrance of the Ground of their Revolt.

They desire Help.

"It is desired that Ten Thousand Foot and One Thousand Horse, with Arms and Munition, and One Hundred Thousand Pounds, be presently sent them, with Victuals, and Oats for Horses."

They send an Examination of William Shalles.

And lastly presented an Examination of one Will. Shalles, taken the 10th of November 1641, upon Oath, ministered by the Clerk of the Council of Ireland, by Direction of the Board; which Examination was read in this House, as followeth:

"William Shales, Serjeant of the Foot Company under the Command of Sir Arthur Loftus, Knight, faith, That, about the latter End of April last, he being then in Norfolke, at Oxborough Hall, in the House of Sir Henry Beddingfeild, the said Sir Henry, hearing that this Examinant was lately come out of Ireland, sent for him into his Garden; whither when he came, he found the said Sir Henry walking with one Poole (whom this Examinant suspecteth was a Priest): And faith, That as soon as he came into the same Garden, the said Sir Henry asked him whether he knew how the State of Ireland then stood? To which the Examinant said, That he thought all Things were quiet, and at Peace there. Why (quoth Sir Henry) doth the Army there do nothing? To which the Examinant replied, That they carried themselves quietly; and that any Man might walk in Ireland with a Thousand Pounds and a Wand only in his Hand. He faith also, That the said Sir Henry told him, that he was once about to have taken a House in Kilkenny, of one of the Butlers, for that there was no Safety in England for any of his Religion; and asked of the Examinant whether there were any good Hawking thereabouts? To which the Examinant said, That there was. Then the said Sir Henry said, That now his Mind was altered, and that he meant to stay still in England; and added, That he did believe that, before Christmas-day next, there should be seen such Com bustions in England and Ireland as the like were never seen before; and thereupon cursed the Scotts, as Authors of these Troubles.

"Wm. Shales.

"Coram nobis, 10 Nov. 1641.

"Ja. Ware,
Robt. Meredith."

Sir Henry Beddingfield to be attached.

The House, taking this Business into Consideration, as a Matter of Importance, Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher attending this House, his Deputy and Deputies, shall attach, or cause to be attached, and forthwith brought before their Lordships, the Body of Sir Henry Beddingfeild, of Oxborough Hall, in Comitatu Norff. Knight, to answer such Matters as he now stands charged with in this House; and further, that the said Sir Henry shall be safely brought up, not being permitted to have Conference with any, but in the Hearing of the Messenger, before he shall be presented unto this House; and lastly, that the Gentleman Usher or his Deputy, calling Two of the next Justices of the Peace, shall seal up the Study and Papers of the said Sir Henry Beddingfeild, leaving Order with the said Justices of the Peace, that they be safely kept so, until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Remonstrance from the Rebels, and the Answer.

After this, the Remonstrance of the Rebels was read; dated the 6th of November, 1641; and afterwards the Answer thereunto was read.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Thomas Barrington, Baronet:

Message from the H. C. concerning Phillips, the Priest, not to release him yet.

To let their Lordships know, that whereas their Lordships sent a Message to the House of Commons, signifying that, upon the humble Submission and Petition of Robert Phillips, Priest, their Lordships are inclined to pardon him for the Offence done to their Lordships; the House of Commons desires that he may not be released of his Imprisonment until the House of Commons be first made acquainted therewith.

The Answer hereunto returned to the House of Commons was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will not release Robert Phillips, the Priest, out of The Tower, until the House of Commons be made first acquainted therewith.

The Queen to be acquainted with it.

The Earl of Dorsett, Lord Chamberlain to the Queen, was appointed to acquaint Her Majesty, "That, upon the humble Petition of Robert Phillips, the Lords have received Satisfaction for the Offence done to this House, and are inclined to pardon; but, acquainting the House of Commons therewith (according to Promise), the House of Commons desires he may not be released from his Imprisonment until they be made acquainted first therewith, as having some other Matter to lay against him."

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about Irish Affairs.

Then a Message was sent down to the House of Commons, by Serjeant Ayliff and Serjeant Fynch:

To desire a present Conference (if it may stand with the Conveniency of that House), by a Committee of both Houses, touching certain (fn. *) Informations received concerning the Affairs of Ireland.

List of Recusants whom the H. C. desire may be secured.

Next, the List of Recusants Names were read, which the House of Commons desire may be secured: videlicet,

Com. Lanc.
Mr. Preston, of the Manor.
Mr. Robert Cranfield, of Robbs. Hall.
Mr. Clifton, of Litham.
Sir John Talbott.
Mr. Chorley.
Sir Cicill Trafford.
Sir William Gerard.
Mr. Hugh Anderton of Eurton.
Mr. James Anderton, of Clayton, the Elder.
Sir Alexander Barlow.
Mr. Blundell, of Crosby.
Com. Staff.
Sir Richard Fleetewood, Baronet.
Mr. Peter Gifford, of Chillington.
Mr. John Welles, of Horecrosse.
Mr. Thomas Leveson, of Ashburne.
Mr. Dreycott, of Painsley.
Mr. Francis Harcott.
Com. South'ton.
Lord Stourton.
Lord Baltemore.
Mr. Gage, of Bawbridge.
Mr. William Owen, of Aberstin.
Mr. John Bishop, of Pilewell.
John Arundell, Esquire.
Sussex.
Lord Viscount Mountague.
Warwick.
Robert Throgmorton, Esquire.
Mr. William Shelden, of Weston.
Mr. Morgan, of Weston.
Sir Charles Smith.
Montgomery.
Sir Peircy Herbert, Knight.
Wigorn.
Earl of Shrowesbury.
Edward Shelden, Esquire.
Francis Hanford, Esquire.
Mr. William Abbington, Junior.
Mr. Walter Blunt.
Cheshire.
Mr. Poole, of Poole.
Mr. Stanley.
Mr. Starkey, of Darley.
Monmouth.
Earl of Worcester.
Mr. Morgan, of Lanterner.
Sir Charles Somersett.
Pembrooke.
Sir Nicholas Lewis.
Suffolke.
Sir Robert Rookewood.
Salop.
Thomas Unton, Esquire.
Northumb.
Roger Widdrington, Esquire.
North'ton.
Lord Brudnell.
Mr. Saunders.
Mr. Poulton.
Dorsetts.
John Webb, of Cansford.
Lincolne.
Sir John Thimbleby, Knight.
Edmund Throcold, of Hough, Esquire.
Ralph Evers, of Washingborough.
Anthony Mounson.
Mr. Townley, of Norton.
The Lord Harris.
Lord Herbert.
Lord Arundell of Warder.
Sir Robert Lynce.
Sir Kenelme Digby.
Sir Basill Brooke.
Sir John Symonds.
Sir Alexander Gordon.
Sir John Winter.
Sir William Mounson.
Sir William Mounteeth.
Sir Henry Gifford.

Ordered, That the Consideration of this List shall be on Monday Morning next.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

Answer from the H. C.

That they will give a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Subject of the Conference.

The Lord Keeper was appointed to make an Introduction at this Conference, "To let the House of Commons know, that the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland hath received Letters from Ireland, which are of very great Importance; and that their Lordships do desire that the House of Commons will take the same into their serious Consideration; and, after this, the Lord Lieutenant is to read the Letters and Papers." (fn. *)

Footnotes

* Origin. the Guard.
* Origin. and Information.
* There is no Adjournment this Day in the Original.