House of Lords Journal Volume 4
14 December 1641

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 14 December 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 473-475. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35739 Date accessed: 20 September 2014.


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DIE Martis, videlicet, 14 die Decembris.

PRAYERS.

Conference of Yesterday reported.

The Lord Keeper reported the Effect of the Conference Yesterday with the House of Commons.

Divers Papers were read, brought from the House of Commons.

Requests of the House of Commons.

"1. The First Paper consisted of "Motives, which induced the House of Commons to make their particular Requests."

Against Toleration of Papistry.

The Second Paper was, "The Desires of the House of Commons, That the Lords would join with them in an humble Petition to the King, against Toleration of the Romish Religion in England and Ireland, and that His Majesty would make a Declaration to this Purpose."

Ditto.

The Third Paper was, "A Declaration which they would petition the King to make, against Toleration of the Romish Religion."

The Queen to declare her abhorrence of the Rebellion in Ireland.

The Fourth Paper was, "A Declaration to be made by the Queen, upon the Petition of both Houses to His Majesty to persuade Her thereunto, That, for preventing of all scandalous Reports and Apprehensions of the Queen's Majesty, as if She had or would secretly favour and encourage the Rebels in Ireland, His Majesty be graciously pleased to advise and procure Her Majesty, that by Her Consent and Direction it may be published and declared, That Her Majesty doth abhor and detest the perfidious and traiterous Proceedings of the Rebels in Ireland, etc."

For Relief of the Irish Poor.

The Fifth Paper is, "A Certificate from the Council of Ireland, shewing, That, forasmuch as the City of Dublin is not able to entertain and nourish such Multitudes of poor distressed People who are stripped of all they have by the Rebels; they have thought fit to take up the Men to employ in His Majesty's Service in the Wars there, and to cause the Women and Children to be transported by Ship into England; and do recommend them to the Charity of all good Christians, desiring them that they will take some Commiseration of their Distress and great Necessity, and extend some Relief towards them by making Contributions, which Contributions they desire may be reserved, and such a Course taken, as that it may be sure to be employed only to the Relief of the Poor distressed People.

"William Parsons.
Jo. Borlace.
R. Bolton, Canc.
Ormond-Ossory.
J. Temple."

Dublin, Nov. 15, 1641.

For a Public Fast.

The Sixth Paper was, "That the House of Commons, out of a deep Sense of the Calamity of our Countrymen and Brethren of Ireland, and considering how all Success and Prosperity depends upon the Blessing and Favour of God, do desire their Lordships to join with them in petitioning His Majesty, that there may be a Public Fast throughout the Kingdom; and that His Majesty will be pleased to appoint a near Day for the same to be kept by both Houses of Parliament, and the City of London and the adjacent Parts, and One other Day for other remoter Parts of the Kingdom; and, because they have received a Certificate from the Lords Justices and others His Majesty's Council in Ireland, concerning the miserable Want and Distresses of the poor English, being divers Thousands, of all Qualities and Sexes; that the House of Commons, (fn. *) for the Relief of the Persons as aforesaid, have appointed a Collection in their own House to be made on Thursday next, and they desire their Lordships to Order the like for their House, that, by the Example of the Parliament, the like Collection may be made in all Parts of the Kingdom upon the Day of the Fast, and the Money gathered to be disposed in such Manner, by such Commissioners, as shall be appointed by both Houses, for the Succour and Relief of these poor distressed People of Ireland."

King present.

The King's Majesty came this Day to this House; and, being set in His Chair of State, He commanded the House of Commons to be sent for; who being come with their Speaker, the King made this Speech to both Houses of Parliament, as followeth:

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

King's Speech about Ireland, and the Pressing Bill.

"The last Time I was in this Place, and the last Thing that I recommended unto you, was the Business of Ireland, whereby I was in good Hope that I should not have needed again to have put you in Mind of that Business; but, still seeing the slow Proceedings therein, and the daily Dispatches that I have out of Ireland of the lamentable State of My Protestant Subjects there, I cannot but again earnestly recommend the Dispatch of that Expedition unto you, for it is the chief Business that at this Time I take to Heart, and there cannot (almost) be any Business that I can have more Care of. I might now take up some of your Time in expressing My Detestation of Rebellions in general, and of this in particular; but knowing, that Deeds, and not Declarations, must suppress this great Insolency, I do here in a Word offer you whatsoever My Power, Pains, or Industry can contribute to this good and necessary Work of reducing the Irish Nation to their true and wonted Obedience.

"And that nothing may be omitted on My Part, I must here take Notice of the Bill for pressing of Soldiers, now depending among you, My Lords; concerning which I here declare, That, in case it come so to Me as it may not infringe or diminish My Prerogative, I will pass it.

"And further, seeing there is a Dispute raised (I being little beholden to him whosoever at this Time began it) concerning the Bounds of this ancient and undoubted Prerogative, to avoid further Debate at this Time, I offer that the Bill may pass, with a Salvo Jure both for King and People, leaving such Debates to a Time that may better bear it: If this be not accepted, the Fault is not Mine that this Bill pass not, but those that refuse so fair an Offer. To conclude, I conjure you by all that is or can be dear to you or Me, that, laying away all Disputes, you go on chearfully and speedily for the reducing of Ireland."

His Majesty, having ended His Speech, departed; and the Commons went to their House.

Exceptions taken at this Speech.

And this House conceived that the fundamental Privileges of Parliament have been broken by the King's taking Notice, in His Speech this Day, of the Debate in this House of the Bill concerning pressing of Soldiers.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hollis:

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about them.

To desire a Conference, by Committees of both Houses, so soon as it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, touching a Thing most precious to their Lordships and them, the Privileges of Parliament.

The Answer hereunto returned was:

Answer.

That this House will give them a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

This House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Keeper reported the Effect of the Conference: videlicet,

Report of the Conference about the King's Speech.

"That the Privileges of Parliament have ever been placed in an high Estimation with both Houses, and have been enjoyed with great Affection, not only as an Ornament, but as a Right, to have Free Debate of Matters in Parliament.

"The House of Commons say, that the Occasion of this Conference grows from somewhat that fell from the King this Day in His Speech in full Parliament: They say His Presence is an Acceptation of Joy, and would be so, if it were not for Misrepresentations of Things acted and debated in Parliament, which is against the Indemnity of the Lords and Commons, as 9 H. IV.

"His Majesty took Notice of a Bill for the pressing of Soldiers being in Agitation in the Houses, and not agreed upon, and did offer a Salvo Jure, or Provisional Clause, to be added to the said Bill, by Way of Limitation or Restriction; and did also, at the same Time, express His Displeasure against some Person or Persons, which had moved some Doubt or Question concerning (fn. *) it; which the House of Commons declare to be a Breach of the fundamental Privileges of Parliament.

"The House of Commons do therefore desire their Lordships would join with them in an humble Petition to His Majesty, to take Notice that the Privileges of Parliament is broken herein; and to desire Him that it may not be done so any more hereafter."

Committee to draw up a Petition from both Houses, concerning the Infringement of their Privileges. leges by the King in His Speech.

For Debate hereof, the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure; and being resumed, it is Ordered, That this House will join with the House of Commons in a Petition to His Majesty herein; and that a select Committee of Lords be appointed to meet with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to consider of the Breach of the Privileges of Parliament, and to prepare some Things incident hereunto, and present the same to this House.

The Names of the Lords Committees are,

The L. Archbp. of Yorke.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Bristoll.
Comes Holland.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Epus. Durham.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Roffen.
Ds. Mowbray.
Ds. Roberts.
Ds. Pierpointe.
Ds. Seymour.

Their Lordships are to meet with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, on Wednesday the 15th of this Instant December, at Nine of the Clock in the Morning, in the Painted Chamber.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir William Litton, Knight:

Message from the H. C. from a Conference about the Priests, and a Letter from Ireland.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Matter of the Conference last Night, concerning the Priests, and also touching a Letter lately received out of Irelande.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will give a present Meeting, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

E. of Cumberland's Bill.

Ordered, That the Committee for the Earl of Cumberland's Bill do meet To-morrow, at One of the Clock in the Afternoon, and have Power to adjourn themselves from Time to Time, as they shall see Cause.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. to sit a while.

To desire the House of Commons to sit a while, for this House shall have Occasion to send to them touching the Matter of Privileges.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Vane, Junior, Knight:

Message from the H. C. for a Conference about the Pressing Bill.

To desire a present Free Conference, if it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Bill for pressing of Soldiers.

The Answer hereunto was:

Answer.

That this House will give them a present Meeting, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That the House of Commons will sit, as is desired.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

And a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Mr. Page:

Message to the H. C. for Committees to meet about the Infringement of their Privileges.

To let them know, whereas this House sent to them to sit a while, until they heard from this House concerning the Privileges of Parliament, this House hath appointed a select Committee of Twelve Lords to meet with a proportionable (fn. *) Number of the House of Commons for that Purpose, and have appointed the Time to be To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock, in the Painted Chamber.

The Lord Keeper reported the Effect of Two Conferences with the House of Commons:

Conference reported about the Seven Romish Priests.

"The First Conference consisted of Two Particulars.

"1. Whereas a Proposition was made by the French Ambassador to the King, for saving of Seven Romish Priests which were convicted, and the House of Commons presented their Opinions to this House, that Five of those Seven Priests may be executed, according to the Laws; now the House of Commons desire their Lordships to join with them in an humble Petition to His Majesty, That the Execution of the Laws may be done upon all the Seven Priests; and that both Houses would become Suitors to the King to take off the Reprieve.

And of a Letter of the Cruelties in Ireland,

"2. Next a Letter was read, sent from one Parthington in Ireland, written to Sir John Clatworthy, Knight, shewing the great and barbarous Cruelties acted upon the Protestants in Ireland by the Rebels; as hanging of them, and pulling their Flesh from their Bones, cutting off the Heads, Hands and Feet, unripping of Women great with Children, and killing the Children, with divers other inhuman Acts.

And of the pressing Bill.

"The Second Conference reported was, touching the declaratory Part, touching the Bill for pressing of Soldiers: That the House of Commons consents now to the Words ["or compelled"], that they should be inserted in the Preamble of the said Bill, upon Condition that these Words may be added ["except it be in Case of Necessity, of the sudden coming of an Enemy into the Kingdom."] "And lastly, that the House of Commons do not intend to give any Reasons for the fortifying of the declaratory Clause in the Preamble of the pressing of Soldiers, it being a Thing unusual for them so to do.

Answer from the H. C.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they have resolved of a proportionable Number of their House, to meet with the select Committee of this House, To-morrow Morning, as is appointed.

Lord Pierpoint committed for Words.

The Lord Peirpointe, in his Speech, said "That it was not Honourable for this House to be in such a Noise and Tumult:" The House conceived these Words to be a great Offence to so great and high Court as this is; and being charged with the Words, he was commanded by the House to withdraw; but, before he withdrew, he desired to explain himself, which he was permitted to do; and he professed he did not speak the Words to give any Offence to the House: His Lordship being withdrawn, the House took the Offence done to this House into Consideration; and Ordered, That the Lord Peirpointe shall be committed to the Custody of the Gentleman Usher attending this House, for the present.

To address the King that the Seven Romish Priests may suffer their Sentence.

After this, the House took into Consideration the Conference from the House of Commons, concerning the Seven Priests; and, after much Debate, the Question was put, whether this House shall join with the House of Commons in an humble Advice to His Majesty, that Execution of the Laws be done upon all the Seven Priests that are condemned, and that He will be pleased to take off His Reprieve. And it was Resolved by the major Part, To join with the House of Commons herein.

Memorandum, The Lords the Bishops withdrew themselves before the voting of this Question, it being in Agitatione Causæ Sanguinis.

Lords to present this Address.

Ordered, That the Lord Steward and the Lord Chamberlain do attend the King from both Houses, concerning the Seven Priests to be executed as aforesaid; and that His Majesty will take off the Reprieve.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Mercurii, videlicet, 15m diem instantis Decembris, hora 1a post meridiem, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Origin. and.
* Deest in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.