House of Lords Journal Volume 4
20 December 1641

Sponsor

History of Parliament Trust

Publication

Year published

1767-1830

Pages

Annotate

Comment on this article
Double click anywhere on the text to add an annotation in-line

Citation Show another format:

'House of Lords Journal Volume 4: 20 December 1641', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 4: 1629-42 (1767-1830), pp. 481-483. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=35744 Date accessed: 21 October 2014.


Highlight

(Min 3 characters)

DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 20 die Decembris.

PRAYERS.

The King will send an Answer to the Petition of both Houses, concerning His Infringement of their Privileges.

The Lord Keeper signified to the House, "That the King had commanded him, by the Lord Chamberlain, to let both Houses of Parliament know, that His Majesty would send His Answer to the Petition and Remonstrance of both Houses presented to Him, this Afternoon, as soon as the Committees of both Houses do attend Him."

Hereupon a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Baron Henden and Mr. Justice Foster:

Message to the H. C. to acquaint them with it.

To let them know the King's Message as aforesaid, that so the Committees of both Houses may attend the King this Afternoon at Whitehall.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Answer.

That they have delivered their Message to the House of Commons.

Cheshire Petition about Church Government sent to the House by His Majesty.

Next, a Petition was delivered unto this House, by the Lord Keeper, by Command of the King, from some of the Inhabitants of the County of Chester, concerning Church Government, and the Book of Common Prayer.

Sir John Blagrave's Bill.

Hodie 2a vice lecta est Billa, An Act to enable Sir John Blagrave, Knight, to make a Jointure to his Wife, etc.

Committed to these Lords following: videlicet,

Comes Bathon.
Comes Southton.
Comes Warwicke.
Epus. Winton.
Epus. Co. & Litchfeild.
Mr. Justice Reeves and
Mr. Serjeant Whitfield,
Epus. Gloucester.
Ds. Mowbray.
Ds. Coventry.
Ds. Seymour.
Ds. Bruce.
Assistants.

Their Lordships, or any Three of them, to meet the next Monday after Twelfth-day; and all Parties that are concerned therein to have Notice.

Earl Pembroke's Bill.

Hodie 3a vice lecta est Billa, An Act for the Indemnity of Phillip Earl of Pembrooke and Montgomery, and the Lady Anne his Wife, and the Heirs and Assigns of the said Lady Anne, notwithstanding any Office to be found, and Livery to be sued, etc.

And, being put to the Question, it was Resolved to pass as a Law, nemine contradicente.

Sir Francis Popham's Bill.

Ordered, That the Committee for Sir Francis Popham's Bill do meet on Thursday next.

Morgan and Rookes.

After this, Turbervile Morgan was brought upon a Habeas Corpus, being arrested upon an Execution by George Rookes, contrary to the Order of this House of the 27th of July 1641.

George Rookes pleaded, that he was never served with the said Order.

Hereupon it was Ordered, That the said Turbervile Morgan shall make Proof To-morrow, concerning the Disobedience of Rookes to the said Order, and likewise to prove that Rookes was served with it; and that, in the mean (fn. *) Time, Turbervile Morgan is re-committed to the Sheriff.

E. of Salisbury Leave to prosecute some Business in the H. C.

It was moved, "That the Earl of Salisbury hath some Business depending in the House of Commons, and his Lordship desires (being a Peer) he may have Leave of this House to follow it;" which this House granted.

Report from the Scots Commissioners.

The Lords Commissioners reported, "That this Morning they met with the Scotts Commissioners, who delivered them this Paper following, with a Desire that they might have a speedy Answer therein, for they are to send Letters away presently to Scotland:

"It is now Twenty Days since we came hither, and a Fortnight since we began this Treaty; and there is not one of our Propositions answered; therefore, lest those that sent us, and expected an Answer from us against the 8th of this Month, should impute it to us, we earnestly desire and expect an Answer to our Propositions given in, that we may give in the rest, and be at a Point this Day or To-morrow: and, in Case of further Delay, we demand that, since the 8th of this Month (at which Time we should have sent Answer into Scotland), to the End of the Treaty, we may have Entertainment for the Two Thousand and Five Hundred Men we have kept up for this Service; otherwise we must send into Scotland, that they be disbanded."

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Hollis:

Message from the H. C. for a Conference, about Ireland and the Scots.

To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching the Declaration concerning Ireland, and expediting thereof, and concerning some Propositions which they have received newly from the Scotts Commissioners.

Next, the House of Commons desires their Lordships would take the Bill for pressing of Soldiers for Ireland into speedy Consideration, without which, they say, Men cannot be raised for the Service of Ireland.

Also the House of Commons desires their Lordships would give Expedition to the Six Propositions of the Scotts.

And further he said, "That the House of Commons do make this Declaration, That they have done what they can to further the relieving of the miserable and distressed Estate of the Protestants in Ireland; and they do clear themselves of the Blood and Misery which will follow, if Expedition be not done speedily to those Means that may relieve them."

The Answer hereunto returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will give a present Meeting, as is desired, in the Painted Chamber, touching the Two First Propositions; and for the other Propositions, their Lordships will take them into Consideration, and expedite them with all Speed.

Letters from Sir Jo. Temple to the Lord Lieutenant, about the State of Ireland.

Next, a Letter was read, dated the 10th of December, written to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, from Sir Jo. Temple, at Dublin. The principal Matters in it were: "That Succours come slowly out of England: That the whole State of Ireland suffers, and the Kingdom is likely to be lost, by the slow Proceedings of sending over of Men, Arms, and Money: That the Lords of The Pale refuse to come to the Council: That the Rebels are in a Body, within Six Miles of Dublin: And that the Lo. Gormanston, Slayny, and Louth, have Correspondency with the Rebels: That Provisions will be cut off from them at Dublin: Therefore they desire speedy Succours from England."

Then the Lord Keeper, and the Lord Wharton to assist him, was appointed to report the Conference.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed; and the Lord Keeper reported the Effect of the Conference: videlicet,

Report of the Conference, concerning Ireland.

"That the House of Commons agree and consent to the Amendments and Additions in the Declaration touching Toleration; and they desire that the same Committee of Lords, that formerly met with a select Committee of the House of Commons, may again meet, to agree and consider of the Form how they shall be entered in the Journal Book."

Next it was reported, "That the House of Commons have brought up a Proposition lately sent to them from the Scotts Commissioners."

Which Proposition, being read, was the same which was reported by the Lords Commissioners this Day.

Ordered, That the Committee of Lords, which formerly met with the Committee of the House of Commons, touching the aforesaid Papers concerning Ireland, do meet presently with the Committee of the House of Commons.

Message to the H. C. for further Conference on the Irish Papers.

And a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Rich and Doctor Bennett, to let them know so much.

The Messengers (fn. *) return this Answer:

Answer.

That the Committee of the House of Commons will meet the Lords Committees presently, as is desired.

To meet Tomorrow.

Then the same Messengers were sent down to the House of Commons again, to desire that the aforesaid Committees of both Houses might (fn. *) meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock, in the Painted Chamber.

The Messengers return with this Answer:

Agreed to.

That the Committee of the House of Commons will meet accordingly.

Next, the King's Answer to the Petition and Remonstrance was reported by the Lords Committees, and read, in hæc verba; videlicet,

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

King's Answer to the Petition and Remonstrance about His Infringement of the Privileges of Parliament.

"In Answer to your Petition, concerning Our Speech to the Two Houses of Parliament the 14th of December;

"First, We do declare, That We had no Thought or Intention of breaking the Privileges of Parliament; neither are We satisfied that Our being informed of any Bill transmitted by the House of Commons to the House of Peers (especially where Our Learned Counsel are admitted by the Peers to speak in Our Behalf, as they were in this Case, and therefore Our Directions necessary therein) can be judged any Breach of the Privileges of Parliament.

"And as for Our taking Notice thereof, and desiring the inserting of a Clause (of saving all Rights), We neither did willingly or knowingly do any Thing to the Breach of the Privileges of Parliament; but what We did therein was in the great Zeal We had, and ever shall have, to the suppressing the Rebels in Ireland, the quick Dispatch of which Bill contributed so much to the effecting thereof, and it could not but have received great Delay had it passed both Houses in a Way whereunto We could not have given Our Royal Assent.

"Neither had We any Intention to express any Displeasure against any particular Man, for any Opinions or Propositions delivered by Way of Debate in either House; for Our Intention was, to express only a general Dislike of any Questions that should be raised, especially at this Time, concerning Our Prerogative and the Liberty of the Subject, such as this is, being but a Preamble, which might be left out without Prejudice to the Claim, and could not be approved by Us without concluding Our Right.

"As for the last Demand, That We should declare the Persons that gave Us Information, it is no great Wonder that We should get Information of the Contents of the Bill, since they were published in Print before We spoke of them; yet, though We should have gotten Notice otherwise, it is a Thing much beneath Us to name any that should give Us Information or Counsel, it being that which We would not impose upon any Person of Honour.

"Our Conclusion is, That We had not the least Thought of breaking the Privileges of Parliament, but shall, by Our Royal Authority, ever protect and uphold them; and We expect that you will be as careful not to trench upon Our just Prerogative as We will be not to infringe your just Privileges and Liberties; and then there will be little Disagreement betwixt us hereafter in this Point."

Copy of it to be sent to the H. C.

It is Ordered, That a Transcript of this Answer s (fn. †) be sent down to the House of Commons.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Harley, Knight:

Message from the H. C. to desire the Lords Committees may be authorized to receive Two Propositions about Ireland.

To desire, That the Lords Committees, that meet To-morrow Morning with the Committee of the House of Commons, may have Authority from this House, to receive Two Propositions, touching the Government of the Parliament of Ireland.

And that the Lords will not have a Recess without acquainting them.

2. That, considering the great Affairs of Ireland, the House of Commons do desire that their Lordships will not resolve of a Recess before the House of Commons be made acquainted therewith.

Agreed to by the Lords.

Hereupon it is Ordered, That the Lords Committees shall have Power to receive the Two Propositions of the Committee of the House of Commons; and that this House will not resolve of any Recess before they make the House of Commons acquainted therewith.

And the Answer was returned as aforesaid.

After this, the House was adjourned during Pleasure into a Committee, to debate how many Scotts should be sent out of Scotland into Ireland; and, after much Consideration, the House was resumed, and these Three ensuing Questions were put:

Votes about the Scots for Ireland.

"1. Whether this House shall consent to send Ten Thousand Scotts into Ireland, before it can be ascertained that we can and shall send Ten Thousand English?"

Resolved negatively.

"2. Whether this House shall consent to send Ten Thousand Scotts before the Bill for Pressing be passed?"

Resolved negatively.

"3. Whether this House shall join with the House of Commons in sending Ten Thousand Scotts now into Ireland?"

Resolved negatively.

Ordered, That the Bill for Pressing shall be the First Business taken into Consideration To-morrow.

Ordered, That the House be called To-morrow, and the Collection to be made in this House for Ireland.

The Lords Commissioners are to let the Scotts Commissioners know, That this House desires they would stay their Messengers from going to Scotland until Tomorrow at Night; and then they shall receive an Answer to their last Proposition.

The King's Answer to the Petition and Remonstrance.

Ordered, That the King's Answer to the Petition and Remonstrance shall be taken into Consideration on Thursday next.

Porter's Order for quieting his Possessions in North Somercotes in Lincolnshire.

Upon reading the Petition of Endymion Porter, Esquire, "That he might have the Benefit of a public Order, dated the 13th of July 1641, concerning the breaking violently into Possessions and Inclosures, in a tumultuous Manner;" it is Ordered, That the said Endymion Porter shall have the Benefit of the said Order of the 13th of July in his Particular, touching his Lands in the Parish of North Somercotes, in the County of Lincolne; and that such as shall break the said Order, and Affidavit made thereof unto this House, and their Names delivered unto the Clerk of the Parliament, a Messenger shall be sent for them as Delinquents, and they shall undergo such Punishments (if they shall be found faulty) as in their Lordships great Wisdoms they shall think fit.

Doctor Featley and Kirwin.

Ordered, That the Cause between Mr. Doctor Featley and Andrew Kerwin, in the King's Bench, shall be stayed, and no further Proceeding to be had, until the Injunction that is granted in the Exchequer, which is now depending before the Lords Committees for Petitions, shall be considered of, and reported to this House.

Adjourn.

Dominus Custos Magni Sigilli declaravit præsens Parliamentum continuandum esse usque in diem Martis, videlicet, 21m diem instantis Decembris, hora 10a Aurora, Dominis sic decernentibus.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
Origin. we.