Monday, January 5,1656–7.
Per Colonel Matthews.
A Bill for the disappropriating of the Rectory appropriate
to Preston, in the county of Suffolk, and for the uniting and
consolidating of the said rectory, and of the vicarage of the
church of Preston aforesaid. Read the first time, and ordered
to be read the second time on Saturday.
Sir John Thorrowgood came this day into the House, upon
a new election for Lynne Regis, in the place of MajorGeneral Disbrowe, who chose to serve for the county of
A Bill for establishing, confirming, and settling of certain
lands in Ireland upon Colonel Theophilus Jones, towards the
satisfaction of his arrears. Read the first time.
There are 3000 acres of land near the town of Lucan, in
the county of Dublin. They were the lands of William
Chesfield, a delinquent, deceased.
Resolved, that this Bill be read a second time on Saturday
Colonel Fothergill stood up with purpose, I suppose, to
press the tenants of Westminster's petition to be read: but he
said nothing; nor would it have availed if he had, for at least
five or six stood up with petitions, and could not be heard.
I know hot when they shall.
Colonel Bingham offered, if I would lay him five pieces
to one, he would wager that the House would be up before I
had writ out this book; offered without equivocation.
Serjeant Birkhead told me John Musgrave had been at
his House on Saturday, railing two hours together against me
and Major-General Howard. He showed him a petition of a
mile long against me, and a letter to the House, which he intended to present shortly. There he had set forth the whole
matter at Haberdasher's Hall, the depositions there, and before the Mayor of Appleby, and all that about Colonel Highmore. He ranted highly what he would do, but the Serjeant defended it as far as he could, and seemed to slight all.
Mr. Scobell came not to the House to-day. He fell very
ill on Saturday, and sent for the doctors. In danger of a
pleurisy. I perceive he keeps his bed.
Colonel Sydenham. There is a report upon a petition,
which has a long time waited to be presented to you. It
does eminently concern the honour of this House to proceed
to do justice upon it. It is the report upon the business of
Rodney and Cole. (fn. 1) I pray hear it, for there cannot a greater
grievance come before you.
Major-General Goffe. This business is a public concernment, and so ought not to come in a private business. It
concerns the Parliament, publicly to redress grievances and
abuses in courts of justice. It is more proper for another
day. I have a short petition. I desire it may be read.
Lord Strickland and Mr. Robinson. Though it doth concern the Parliament, in a public respect, to redress grievances
and abuses in courts of justice; yet this is a particular grievance, and proper for a day of private business. I desire
the report may be heard.
Resolved, that the report touching Rodney and Cole, be
Mr. Pedley reported the state of the matter of fact, upon
the petition and appeal of George Rodney, and Sarah, his
wife, plaintiffs, John Cole and others, defendants, from the
Committee, to whom the same was referred, with the resolutions of the Committee thereon, which were read.
See their resolves, all agreed to by the House, except one,
touching 200l. part of the principal monies, whether paid by
Rodney or no; in regard the evidence was something suppository and supplemental, and the House not satisfied, as vide
infra, (fn. 2) upon the debate; but in all the rest of the resolves, the
House agreed with the Committee, as followeth.
1. First to the matter of fact, that the petitioner, George
Rodney, entered into a statute of 1000l. for payment of 520l.
at a day then to come, unto Alice Pawlett.
Resolved, that this House doth agree with the Committee.
2. And that, shortly after, the defendant John Cole married the said Alice, whereby he had an interest in the said
debt. Afterwards, about the 21st of March, 1641, the said
George Rodney, by the hands of one Mr. Glover, paid to one
Thorne, the sum of 317l. 13s. by the appointment of the said
John Cole, and to his use. (fn. 3)
Colonel White. I shall willingly agree to wave the debate
and question upon the 200l. whether paid or not, because the
House seems unsatisfied in it; but I cannot be of opinion
that the judges have done their duty in this business or that
it is only error in judgment, and not of affection or corruption.
It is fit for a Parliament to inquire this, and not to pass it
by, which is the way to make injustice be done hereafter. If
they have done amiss, let them hear of it, and in no place so
proper as this. I cannot in conscience sit here, and saynothing, to see such practices palliated in this House.
I would have it first considered, whether the commissioners
have done their duty, and if they be in fault, that they may
hear of it; and then you may proceed to reparation of the
Colonel Theophilus Jones. That may be the proper question after you have gone over the Report.
Mr. Godfrey. You have proceeded to vindicate the party
There is another thing which has been moved to you, wherein
you ought to do something, both for the vindication of the
honourable persons reflected upon, as also for the honour of
It does not appear by the Report, whether this is an irregularity in point of judgment, or in point of corruption. You
must either vindicate them in point of honour, or yourselves
in point of justice. This is not determined, one way, or other,
by the Committee, and you cannot, in honour, pass it by
without putting it in a way of inquiry, whether it was in the
commissioners an error of judgment, or of corruption, or affection.
Mr. Moody. I desire to second that motion. I hope we
come here to do equal justice to poor and rich, without respect of persons. If there be a fault, let us examine it.
Lord Lisle. There cannot a greater mischief come upon
your Commissioners than to be had in ill opinion of any one
member of this House. It is my desire it may be referred to
a Committee, to consider and enquire whether they have done
right or wrong; that if they have done well in it, they may
be encouraged; if ill they may receive for their demerit, as
the wisdom of the House shall think fit.
Mr. Robinson. I desire that your question may be to refer it to the Committee to enquire how this irregularity came
to pass, whether through error of judgment in the Commissioners, or of corruption.
This question was offered upon the Speaker's offering a
question, somewhat short, as was thought, for he was very
modest in it, and unwilling, &c., and would have had the
Committee to enquire in what parties the fault was, and with
what mind it was done.
Mr. Westlake. I desire it may be enquired by the Committee whether this was done ex malo ammo, or out of error
Colonel Purefoy would needs have it that Mr. Westlake
spoke false Latin, viz. ex malum animo.
Sir Gilbert Picketing. Refer this to a Committee, in terminis, to enquire with what mind this was done.
To enquire of men's intentions is such a thing, I confess,
as I have not heard of.
Mr. Speaker said, this looked like an inquisition, strict,
Colonel Sydenham. I understand not how you can examine the matter further than you have done, unless it be to
examine men's intentions. You have proceeded to repair the
party, and he is satisfied. Who then would prosecute a matter of this nature unless grieved by it.
The petitioner complains not of the Lords Commissioners,
but of Cole and his rigorous proceedings. I desire you
would do no more in it, unless some complaint or charge
come regularly, by such as will follow the same. You have
borne your testimony, sufficiently, against the judgment. If
you go further, you will but lay a heavy prejudice upon those
that have faithfully served you, or otherwise heavily reflect
upon yourselves, which must be the issue one way or other.
If you refer it to a Committee, I hope the Commissioners
will take care to see the votes put in execution, and the party
repaired. He desires not that any should be punished. I
would have you proceed no further in it.
Major-General Boteler. It stands upon you, not only in
respect of your own honour, but of the honour of the Lords
Commissioners, for their vindication, that you should put this
business into a way of enquiry.
Here the debate was diverted by putting a question.
Resolved, that the Lords Commissioners be required forthwith to see these resolves put in execution. Ut supra.
Mr. Bampfield. There is a great imputation cast upon
your Commissioners, both by the remonstrance, and abroad.
It is good, both for your own honour and theirs, that you
should make further enquiry. The resolve of the Committee
about the 200l. remains upon your records, though you do
not affirm it. I would have that business heard at the bar.
Colonel Matthews. I desire you would hear the whole matter at the bar; both as to the 200l. and to the reflection upon
Sir John Reynolds. I would not have you enter into such
a debate at this time of day, but hear a short petition in my
hands, wherein you are as highly bound to extend your relief.
Colonel Whetham. Vindicate Lord Whitlock, who is, both
here and at the Committee, reflected upon, albeit both the
remonstrance and the report clear him.
The Master of the Rolls. I would not have you further
to enquire into the business. The party is relieved. He,
I believe, desires no person's punishment.
Mr. Reynell moved, that the word "unduly granted," instead of "procured," might be in the question; but the Speaker,
said it could not be.
Colonel Gorges moved for leave for Mr. Windham to go
into the country.
Major Aston. There is no charge regularly before you,
against the Commissioners. I desire you would lay the debate aside, till somebody petition.
Sir Thomas Barnardiston stood up, once and again, and
desired not to baffle business thus, as by another motion to
lay aside this debate; but go into the question.
Mr. Bisse. I desire to second that motion, that you would
further enquire into the business, that the nation may see
you look into such things.
Colonel White. The question might be, to enquire if they
have done their duty.
Major Audley. Unless some persons charge them, you
ought not to proceed in this kind, to charge your judges in
this blind manner. It is not regular, and too light a matter
to charge them upon.
Colonel Briscoe. One of the judges is particularly charged in
the remonstrance, and it imports your honour to enquire into
it. I would have the word "granted," instead of "procured."
The Speaker was against that.
Colonel Jones. I desire the word "granted" may be added,
as moved before. I hope the Lord will keep us all up, to do
our judgment in righteousness, without respect of persons.
I would have these honourable persons appear at the bar and
Mr. Speaker. Those gentlemen are misinformed that talk
of coming to the bar. No member ought to answer until he
be charged; and first, he must answer in his seat, and then
at the bar, if need be.
Mr. Bond and Mr. Rolle informed the same, as see this
debate at large, supra, in this business; (fn. 4) but it was so tossed
till two, that they came to no question; save only for Mr.
Windham to go into the country, and the Speaker, so in haste,
forgot to adjourn the House.
The Grand Committe for Religion sat this afternoon, and
with much ado got together.
Mr. Godfrey reported a clause from a private Committee
touching parents, and masters, and mistresses, to educate their
children and servants, and endeavour to bring them to understand the English tongue, and to read; and that Bibles
should be brought into every family, at the parties' charge,
or at the parish charge, if the poor people be not able to buy
The Committee read, the clause in parts, and agreed
Resolved, that Mr. Bampfield report the same to the
Judge-Advocate Whalley offered a book again (fn. 5) to the Committee, which he could not call less than diabolical. He read
the title of it; it was called 'Ars Notoria, Englished by one
Turner, who had the impudence not only to put to it his
name, but to dedicate it to one Mr. William Ryves, (fn. 6) and
say, "Printed by J. Cottrel; to be sold by Martha Harison,
at the Lamb, at the East-end of Paul's, 1657."
He was directed by the Committee to read such places of
the book as he mistiked.
He read first the title, which was thus: "Ars Notoria, or
the Notory Art of Solomon, showing the Cabalistical key of
magical operations, &c., Judicial Astrology, Art of Memory,
&c." He read other parts of the book, where a great efficacy
was placed in repeating certain words at some hours, and
several other odd tricks of conjuration, as that laying one's
finger behind the right ear was good for the memory, and
abundance of such stuff.
Mr. Bampfield said the title of the book (fn. 7) was sufficient to
condemn it, so
Resolved, that this book be referred to a Committee to
consider thereof, and report their opinions to this Committee,
and that they send for the parties, and take care that the
books be not dispersed abroad. (fn. 8)
Captain Baynes questioned whether, unless this Committee
had power from the House, they could impower a private
Committee to send for persons. It was also doubted by
others; but it was thought, unless that power was given, there
would be no benefit by appointing a Committee; you would
lose the fruits of it.
Major-General Goffe urged that the Committee for Bibles
had sent for several persons, from time to time, and it was
the usual practice of private Committees, in such cases, who
had no other authority than from this Grand Committee.
Resolved, that the private Committee do send for all parties; sed, quo Jure, &c.
In the Speaker's chamber sat the Committee for Mr. Acklam's Bill, Captain Lister in the chair.
In the Duchy Chamber sat the Committee of Trade upon
the Bill for Norwich Stuffs. I promised Major-General
Haines to be there, but I could not, for the Grand Committee.
In the debate about Turner's book, where he had prescribed certain words to be said at certain hours, as very efficacious, Lord Strickland stood up and said that Dr. Cosin (fn. 9)
had put forth a book, wherein he had appointed prayers for
such and such hours. (fn. 10) I know not to what end. he spoke it,
for it was suddenly offered. But presently they fell into a
long debate how the papists laboured to delude us and intricate us, by obtruding doctrines of all sizes in their books
dispersed abroad; Quakers, and magic, and all devils, &c.