Monday, June 8, 1657.
The Speaker took the chair (the House having waited half
an hour for a minister, and none came) and was going to proceed without prayers, but
Mr. Bampfield stood up. This is the first precedent
that ever the House went to business without prayer. (fn. 1) You
are now going upon public business. So I hope you are not
in such haste but you will take a blessing along with you.
Hereupon the House staid awhile.
Lord Whitlock. I move to excuse the minister that should
have attended, but is gone to Chelsea. He was ignorant of
your orders, but is a very honest and faithful man as any of
Major-General Whalley told Mr. Downing that he was a
minister, and he would have him to perform the work.
Mr. Downing acknowledged he was once a minister. (fn. 2)
Dr. Clarges. There is a very honest minister, a Scotchman,
at the door.
He was sent out for him, but came in and acquainted the
House that he was gone; and they called upon Dr. Clarges
to do the work, but he withdrew.
Some said, that the Speaker used to exercise, in the absence
of a minister. Others said, the clerk; but, nobody coming,
the House proceeded without any prayer.
A long Bill for naturalizing was read the third time, notwithstanding the late express order to exclude all private business; but the House grumbled. (fn. 3)
Sir Christopher Pack produced a proviso for paying strangers' customs.
Then prayers were called for, which a minister performed
Sir Christopher Pack again tendered the proviso, and said,
that Mr. Noel was appointed to tender it.
Per myself, Colonel Carter, and Colonel Shapcott,
The proviso excepted against as irregularly come in; there
being no Committee when the proviso passed, and the House
Mr. Speaker and Mr. Pedley. Any member may offer it.
The same was tendered accordingly.
Mr. Godfrey, Major-General Whalley, Captain Baynes
and Colonel Shapcott, were against it. They said, none are
naturalized but such as come hither for their religion, and for
being sufferers for you, and we have more need of friends now
than ever, and there will not be any loss of customs by it. The
merchants can colour goods as well as strangers, and it is to
that end, that they may wholly colour them. It is not just
nor honourable to give them a privilege, and take it away again.
Sir Christopher Pack and Alderman Foot. It will lose us
40,000l. per annum, in customs.
After some further debate, the House was divided. The
Yeas went forth.
Yeas 43. Alderman Foot and Mr. Lloyd, Tellers.
Noes 63. Major-General Disbrowe, and Major-General
Sir Christopher Pack was appointed to be a Teller, but he
stood up and said, nobody knew whether he should go out or
no, and so Mr. Lloyd was appointed in his stead.
It passed in the negative.
Sir Christopher Pack offered another proviso, to preserve
the rights and duties payable to the City. Though you give
away your own customs, you will not give away the City's.
They have deserved not so ill from you.
Colonel Shapcott moved against this proviso.
Mr. Noel. I was against the other proviso, because, in my
judgment, it was not for your service. All places in the
world favour strangers. You pay less in the Indies, Portugal,
and else, where you trade, three per cent. less than the natives. I know it is no loss to your customs, if all were freely
admitted to trade.
Mr. Lloyd. I will find farmers to give 40,000l. for this
strangers' customs. I rise up to disabuse you in it, for I
know you are misinformed.
Mr. Recorder. It is the first time that ever I heard a question put upon a proviso, till it was first read. The House is
not possessed of it. Of sixty provisos tendered to the Act of
Oblivion, (fn. 4) all were read the first time.
Mr. Speaker, the clerk, and others said, that the practice was
often the contrary.
This proviso was put to the question, and passed also in
the negative, before any body stood up to except.
Colonel Holland moved that one Harmon Scott, a surgeon,
might be added, to be naturalized in this Bill. The question
Mr. Speaker declared for the Yeas, and it was excepted for
the Noes; but the Yeas, rather than go out, yielded it.
Another proviso was offered, not to exempt any person from
paying strangers' or aliens' duties until the rising of the next
Parliament, and no longer (fn. 5)
Lord Lambert moving for this proviso, they carried it.
Yeas 63, went forth. Sir Thomas Honywood and Mr.
Noes 50. Sir John Barkstead and Major Morgan, Tellers.
The proviso was read again.
Mr. Speaker declared it not to be sense, because it related
to a Parliament rising, that was not yet set.
Colonel Shapcott. This is all one as if you had made it
for life; for, in all probability, it may be seven years before
the next Parliament rise.
Sir William Strickland. I move that you lay aside this
proviso, till the next Parliament; for, till then, it is not possible to make it sense.
Mr. Godfrey. It is neither sense nor reason. It will ap
pear ill upon your journals, that you vote and unvote. Just
now you said, they should pay no custom, and now you lay
it upon them for their lives; for seven years is no less.
Colonel Stewart. This contention is de lanâ caprinâ. (fn. 6) You
have declared the proviso is not sense; and how can they be
satisfied, that either spoke for, or against it, in the debate?
Lord Lambert and Colonel Sydenham. Though it was a
little missed sense, that might be mended. The justice and
equity remain. Will you lay, and continue burthens upon
your friends, and wholly excuse strangers. Truly this will
not be for your honour nor service. You discourage your
Major-General Disbrowe. You encourage trade, though
you discourage, haply, some other persons. I would wholly
lay aside the Bill, rather than take away their privileges. It
is useless to your customs.
Mr. Bond. I wonder any man dare bring in such a nonsensical proviso. I know you are misinformed in that loss
of your customs. There were never above 2000l. made of
strangers' customs. There is not passed three or four men,
in all this Bill, that are merchants: if those have crept in,
will you reject all your friends for it ?
Major Aston. The proviso stands as much in need of
being naturalized, as any person in the Bill. It is as much
alien as any part of the Bill. I understand not the language
of it, so would have it rejected.
Dr. Clarges. I am against the proviso, both for the nonsense and unreasonableness of it. Your customs and excise
will increase by the Bill. They will now trade openly, and
not secretly, as they have done. It is an Act of your grace
and favour, and let them have the real effects of it.
The question was put for the second reading of the proviso.
It passed in the negative.
And the Bill being thus read, passed into a law.
Mr. Bampfield. It is now half an hour past eleven, and all
taken up with private business. I desire no more may be
admitted of this kind.
Mr. Speaker stood up and said, he thought it would not
have held so long. He craved excuse and said, till Tuesday
se'nnight you shall not have one private Bill read.
He acquainted the House that he had a letter touching the
Irish officers, (fn. 7) from his Highness.
It was moved to put it off till Wednesday next, and it was
Lord Lambert moved, and it was so resolved, that the same
day be appointed for the debate upon the other letter,
"touching the Lancashire forces." (fn. 8)
The orders of the day being read,
There was a great debate which should be presented, the
Bill for Adventurers for lands in Ireland, or that for the
The question was put for reading the Bill for the Adventurers, and the House was going to be divided; but it was
yielded, and the Bill was read.
Mr. Speaker took notice that the Bill was of consequence,
and there was a great noise in the House.
Major Morgan. You have need to attend to this Bill. I
hope it will never pass; it is such a Bill.
Mr. Godfrey and others said, he ought not to pass his judgment beforehand upon any Bill, and it was unparliamentary;
but he ventured to break orders, out of design.
The House rose at one o'clock.
Sir James Mac Dowell made a Report upon the Bill for
the Assessments in Scotland, (fn. 9) which held two hours.
The Bill for satisfaction of the soldiers in Ireland, was read
the third time, and several provisos offered to it, and passed.
Mr. Bond moved one, that none should have more land
than is duly their share.
Mr. Bampfield offered another proviso to save the estates of
Sir John Barrington, Mr. Turner, and other adventurers,
"by virtue of the Act made in the 17th year of the late King
Charles," (fn. 10) which passed.
Major Morgan and Major Aston. As a mark of your
favour, and as a memorial to posterity, that the Lord Deputy (fn. 11) has done you service, or has been there, sell out some
lands for him in Ireland.
Lord Whitlock and Sir William Strickland moved, that he
might have lands settled upon him to the value of 1500l. per
Colonel Stewart seconded. The question was going to be
Mr. Bampfield. I move, that for your honour you would
not give such large rewards to one another: it was the blame
of the Long Parliament. You have most need to pay your
debts to the poor souls that daily cry at your doors. I honour that person beyond any man; but it is not for your
honour to do it at this time. Again, it is worth 30,000l. and
that is money, and you stand in need of it.
Major-General Haines seconded the motion.
Dr. Clarges. He is Lord Deputy, and one of the Privy
Council, and has several other great places of trust. They
used, in former times, to give gratuities ad sustentandum honoremt onus, et nomen, and he well deserves a great deal more at
your hands, than the sum propounded.
Major-General Disbrowe. I am sorry to hear such a question called for. If I were desirous to bring a reproach upon this
honourable person, I would move this question. It is neither
for his honour nor yours, at this season, to give gratuities of
this nature. You are in debt to many poor people that want
bread, whose cries ascend high; many poor soldiers' unsatisfied, and great occasion for monies, as ever you had.
If I did not honour and love that person, as myself, I
should not move you to lay aside this question. God has
owned him, and he has a competent fortune, and is no worse
that he has had no such mark of favour upon him.
Mr. Moody moved for the question.
Mr. Godfrey. I am against the question, for the reasons
alledged by General Disbrowe.
Major-General Goffe. It is much for the public service to
put such a mark of favour upon this person that has deserved
so well. I would have you put the question for the sum
that is propounded.
Colonel Shapcott. This question comes in against the
orders of the House; for you have resolved no private business shall intrude. I honour the person as much as any man,
but I think it is not for your honour to give any such gratuities at this season, till your Public Faith, and other debts be
paid. By the computation of those worthy members, who
say that they pass assessments at seventy per cent, by this
rule you give this person the seventieth part of Ireland.
Lord Lambert. I would not have it said the nation is in
that weak condition that this will undo them. The honourable person deserves a great deal more; and my reason why
I move it is, because I know it will not please him. (fn. 12)
I wish it had not been mentioned; but to lay it aside, will be
a great discouragement to many good men. That gentleman
speaks too late to the orders of the House, because the House
is possessed now of it. That gentleman is mistaken in the
computation, for it is not the 7000th part, nor another cypher.
Sir Richard Onslow. Now the question is moved, you
cannot well part from it. It is no private business, but a
public compensation out of the certificate-lands which were
always given to honourable persons, that had so well merited.
Colonel White. I move, that for justifying yourselves, and
that honourable person, you would insert it in your question
that it is in compensation for all his arrears. I could wish it
had not come in: but, as it is moved, you cannot, without reflection, lay it aside.
Major-General Whalley. We have as little need to be lavish of the public purse as ever; but, in such a case as this,
I wonder it should abide any debate, knowing the eminency
of this person, who has served you faithfully in both nations.
I was an eye-witness of his merit. You have set him up as a
beacon upon a hill, put him in high place; and I know he
has not at all sought himself; has not improved, but rather
impaired, his estate. He is a just man, and one that serves
God. I desire you will put the question for this 1500l. per
Colonel Briscoe. This person does eminently deserve as
any man; but, for the censure abroad, and your present
condition, it is not for your honour to do it at this season. I
speak not this of myself, but by special commission from him.
He, with great passion, and, I am confident, ex. animo, did
desire me that I would move against it.
Colonel Holland. It is not only an act of justice, but of
mercy to the nation. It is your duty; and it would prejudice and dishonour the nation, if you should lay it aside. I
have known him, when all were rewarded, refuse that positively; and if you stay till he consent to accept a gratuity, he
will never accept it. You may keep your gratuity.
Mr. Grove. Put the question whether that question shall
be now put. I may hereafter be free to give my vote; but,
at this season, I cannot, hearing so many clamours at your
doors for just debts.
Major Beake. Lay aside this question. God knows upon
what account I do it. We cannot cloister up this vote within
these walls. It will appear without doors. You have followed the very worst path and track that the Long Parliament
trod in; but if you will deliver yourselves and this person
from the scourge of the tongue, keep your own honour and
his too. It is hitherto unspotted. Your debts are insuperable
upon you. Either you do it as an act of favour, or of justice: if of favour, you may choose a better season for it; if of
justice, then justice ought to be equally distributed, and one
may expect it as well as another. If I should move for another person, you could not deny it, according to the measure
of his merit, for justice is alike; and how you will open a gap
and stop it again, to such an inconvenience, I leave it to you
to judge. The poor people's cries are a load upon you, and
such gratuities as these are ill-timed. I desire you would lay
The question being put, if that question shall be now put,
Mr. Speaker declared for the Yeas.
General Disbrowe for the Noes. The Noes went out.
Yeas 43. Lord Lambert and General Montagu, Tellers.
Noes 42. Major-General Disbrowe and Mr. Bampfield,
The main question being put, upon the motion of General
Disbrowe, the House was again divided.
Yeas 45, went out. Major-General Whalley and MajorGeneral Goffe, Tellers.
Noes 43. Major-General Berry and Colonel Shapcott,
So it passed in the affirmative. (fn. 13)
Major-General Disbrowe. I move, that you will let no
business break in upon you; but only matter of raising monies, and the settlement of the nations; which was resolved. (fn. 14)
Major Aston reported amendments to the Bill for Assessments on Ireland, (fn. 15) which were twice read, and agreed to in
the gross, and ordered to be ingrossed.
Mr. Fowell excepted against the amendments, for that only
the land of Ireland was mentioned, and no person's estate
The Bill being read, it was found relating both to real and
Mr. Bampfield excepted against the amendments, for that
the title says, it is for three months' assessments; whereas
the vote was to lay 20,000l. upon Ireland in a gross sum.
He also excepted to the word "land," and that personal estate
was not in the enacting part, but only in the directing part,
for the way of levying it; but without an enacting power they
could not. To solve this mistake, the words "the land of"
was left out, and it stood only "Ireland."
Mr. Bodurda and Mr. Godfrey excepted against that pattern for a proportion, but would let it rather go in a gross
sum. There was great weight laid upon this.
Colonel Shapcott. This is not worth the while. I hope
you will remember this abatement when you come to tax
Major Morgan. I hope you will put no greater burden
upon Ireland than it is able to bear. You may do what you
please with it; but though this gentleman is angry, and
ready to lay such a tax upon Ireland, I hope the Parliament
will not do it. Then I presume he will not. We look for
abatement rather than increase, otherwise we shall not be
able to undergo it.
Mr. Secretary. I move that the Bill for the 600,000l. ayear aid be brought in to-morrow, as being of the greatest consequence.
It was resolved that it be brought in to-morrow at two
Dr. Clarges moved, that the Report upon the new-buildings be proceeded upon to-morrow morning; and so it was
resolved, &c. Sat till eight.