Monday, February 14, 1658–9. (fn. 1)
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. In five years we have had greater
mal-administration than in five hundred years before.
We are a million in debt; some say two, some say three
millions. (fn. 2)
The King demanded but twelve subsidies to maintain the
army against the Scots, (fn. 3) and yet that was thought unreasonable, though it came but unto 720,000l., a subsidy being
but 60,000l. The Queen, by Mildmay her servant, demanded but two subsidies, and she herself thought it too much,
and would have but one, that shall serve her turn. (fn. 4) But if
we be in debt, as some say, three millions, that will be
about fifty subsidies. If this be our case, what shall we do ?
The people care not what Government they live under, so as
they may plough and go to market. (fn. 5)
You have an army, your army raised by you. It must
be paid. They are yours, and will never own any other.
They are bold Britons, Englishmen that will never own any
thing but a Parliament.
Besides, we have an army and navy which must be maintained; a court also, and a council. We have a Dowager
too: some say 20,000l., others that 40,000l. per annum, will,
not serve her.
All the King's tables heretofore were maintained at the
King's charge; (fn. 7) but now they must be all borne by the people, and out of their purses. Let this be considered, and
let us not put ourselves into worse condition than Egyptians.
Let us not set up that we cannot find materials to make good.
I hope we shall never see an Act of Council to resume the
King's, Queen's, and Prince's lands. I have, indeed, some
Bishop's lands. (fn. 8) If the. King be restored, I shall willingly
restore the other.
If the Protector had nominated my son, (as he might have
done,) I should have begged that the mal-administration
might be called to account before you should have, settled
him, or you should have first settled his maintenance.
I desire you would charge boldly the mal-administration
of the Government and the Council I have seen this House
set about with the Council. I have seen a charge against a
secretary, Secretary Windebanck, (fn. 9) that mushroom secretary.
He looked as pale as ashes, and sneaked away. (fn. 10) This is no
new thing in Parliament. I have heard a charge here against
the Earl Marshall, the Lord Keeper, (fn. 11) and against the Earl of
Strafford. Before we vote a Stadholder, (fn. 12) Chief Magistrate,
or Protector, let us call their mal-administrations to account,
and that we may understand our condition first.
We look upon a man as in a desperate condition, when he
is afraid to look into his accounts and see in what case he is.
Lawyers, officers, commanders of the army, that have great
incomes, besides their rents, may be able to pay their rates;
but the poor freeholder, the ploughman, the labourer, that
hath nothing but the sweat of his brow, how shall we take
care for these, how shall they be able to live ?
It should have done well that this Bill had been brought in
by your advice.
It is desired you would do nothing suddenly nor unadvisedly.
Colonel Briscoe. I shall premise two things.
1. That government is necessary.
2. That all forms of Government are in themselves indifferent; yet have their conveniences and inconveniences. They
are not like white paper neither.
This Government of a single person is fitter for us. We
have a government in possession. Our predecessors have
taken the Government in possession. Good laws mend the
It is not easy to wrest a club out of Hercules's hands. It
must breed great distractions. It is fittest for us; most suitable to the ancient Government. If we now go to lay a new
foundation, what a labyrinth shall we run into ? To turn all
over, of what dangerous consequence cannot be imagined.
Reciprocal charges and reflections should have been spared.
We might all be so ingenuous as to acknowledge failings on
both sides. I take not this to be the probable way of settling.
We ought not only to provide for settlement, but for the liberties of the people. Omne tulit punctum qui miscuit utile
I shall speak a little concerning the liberties of the people.
We have taken an oath which obliges to be tender. Populus
est prior et potior. Though the Chief Magistrate be most
transcendent, he must be less than the whole. Yet I would
have every thing done in its season. But it is said, either do
now, or for ever hold your peace. (fn. 13) I most cordially concur
with those that in this Bill would have an equal care of both.
I am not for the first, unless the other be added. Jealousies
on both sides must be secured by something that is material.
The articles should be distinct, not to depend one upon another.
I would have two bills, one-for the liberties of the people,
another for the Chief Magistrate, with such limitations as
shall be agreed on.
Mr. Trevor. In that quarrel, our business was always to
look forward. For mal-administration, former times have
been as bad. It was rather the fault of the time than of the
men. I am far from justifying all that passed. Methinks
we should be more impartial than only to look back five
years. (fn. 14) If we look with an impartial eye, we shall find as
many in the five years that went before. We had 120,000l.
per month; now but 35,000l, and excise and customs, besides great scarcity of money, and sales of public lands. Maladministration was then complained of; men being both buyers and sellers of public lands; writs of error after judgment
For the question proposed. It was brought in clear, not
to surprise any body. I shall ever consent to that law which is
made by those that have power; but to consent to make that,
per se, as it may depend upon that uncertainty as that he
may be, or may not be; this shakes all laws since 48.
I would have a general Act of Oblivion on all that has
passed since, but that we are settled by a law. But to allow
all that was done by that Parliament as good, and to call all
done by this Parliament bad, I cannot understand. A good
law by a bad authority, is not so much as a bad law by a good
I understand not that argument, of a natural right before
any authority was, and that we are reduced to that natural
right. (fn. 15) Admit it were so; then it entities us and no other
Parliament that have met together. If it were so, we are
called by writ according to ancient laws and customs. When
we go to natural right, all other laws are gone. No man can
say that we are chosen to any such ends. The consequence
of this is, that there is no law in being. This House was
not chosen to that end. We cannot assume it. The foundation to stand upon is a law, which cannot be repealed but by
a power that made it.
Mr. Knightley. It troubles me to look on your Journals,
and find so many blanks in that Bill. Since this day sennight, nothing has been done. I told you then I would not
have come into the House, but that I owned the Chief Magistrate. We have no cause to rejoice in a Commonwealth. A
Commonwealth was never for the common weal. (fn. 16)
When I came first into this House, we had two armies. A
Scotch army entered, and, I will not say, invaded England.
Another army was raised here to suppress them; another in
We are now, by God's blessing, looking towards freedom,
that ancient form of Government. It is some happiness that
the single person is of good disposition, free from guile; but
he is but a man. I have heard the Judges say, that the Chief
Magistrate, man or woman, must be bound; law must not
cease. We are now put into a posture to have the fruit of
our laws. What were done since 48, are equal to me. Much
good may it do to them that have good bits by these, but not
to bespatter another. I would not have it.
It is said, when posts go up and down, they say you are
where you were. There are only reports from the Committee
of Privileges and Dismemberment.
I see nothing in this vote to take away your laws from you.
Propose your vote singly, and then any gentleman may move
an addition. When it comes to the negative voice and the
militia, I shall insist upon it as much as any man; but to say,
"we will not have this man reign over us," (fn. 17) I cannot agree
to it. This previous vote is a devious vote. Via recta est
via tuta. I desire you would put the question singly. You
shall have my yea.
Mr. Chaloner. Many days have been spent in this debate.
Let them write into the country what they will. It is a great
business. If it be carried in the affirmative for the single
question, I doubt all is gone. Part with that, and the Bill is
Where two questions come before you, you ought to take
that first that concerns the liberty of the people, before placing any single person, or making a Protector, and leaving the
liberties of the people in the wilderness. You are in a wood.
I know not how you can justify it. You cannot discharge
your trust to the people.
It was told you it was high treason to propound a question
against a law in force. The single person is but the means,
the prop; liberties are the end. It is said there is an interregnum. Then it is plain you have no Protector at all.
The declaration should have been a more solemn deposition, and witnesses to prove it, who were not persons that
have places by it. (fn. 18)
The practice of other nations is to provide for the people,
and then go to election; as in Bohemia. The reason is,
because after election, he would never consent to making laws.
First provide your bounds and banks; and then I shall
agree as freely as any man to the single person.
Mr. Swinfen. I move to the orders of the House, and not
to wander off the question. We shall rise, doing nothing. I
would have every man to keep close to the debate.
Mr. Harrison. I shall not trouble you with any long debate. I am one of those that are sorry the debate has laid so
long, for I think there is no such danger, nor comprehensiveness in the vote. It was never understood so, in the acknowledging of any King.
As the single persons have turned into tyranny, so the liberties of the people have been abused, like Pandora's box.
All sects and heresies have grown up under the abuse of these
liberties. (fn. 19) The liberties of the people are dear to us all.
They are so to me.
I doubt the fervour of this debate is much losing by the
delay. To limit, as is propounded, is but splendidum nihil.
Nothing but inconvenience will come to the liberties of the
I served you here in 54. A melancholy man made a purchase, laid his hand on his mouth and said he had lost his
2000. If this vote pass thus limited, it is making him a
Protector to-day, and none to-morrow. I would have the
vote pass singly.
Colonel White. I am one of those that would have these
two great stones of the foundation of this Government laid
together with all the care that may be. The governor and
governed are by the order of nature. The latter ought to
precede; but I would have both go together.
There was an objection made at first that went far with me,
viz. that the liberties of the people are safe enough in the
settlement of the Chief Magistrate; but it is easily answered.
It is said your liberties are hedged in by his Highness's
oath. I wish I had nothing to say against it. That general
tie has been upon all the governors of the nation in all times.
I shall like a little balk to the unsafety of these ties. You have
been under several administrations. A government was
brought in upon you I know not how; by whom assumed I
know, his late Highness. An oath then, in the Instrument,
was as comprehensive as any one of the others could be,—to
govern in all things according to the laws and customs of the
nation. I would not reflect but only by way of argumentation. Notwithstanding the great obligation and tie of that
oath, we had many impositions upon us no way consistent
with it; witness the Major-generals, grounded upon a highprerogative declaration, with power to confiscate men's estates,
banish Englishmen, (a hard word in former Parliaments,)
and put them.into imprisonment and bonds. This, indeed,
was executed by honest hands. The best part of it was, a
design to put us into blood by some Cavaliers; therefore all
Cavaliers are guilty. Neither major, minor, nor conclusion
good. Ill logic. This was a high law of prerogative. It
was done, and yet this under a security of his oath.
There was another authority, I know not whether of force
or not. If men proceeded at law, men were sent for. I was
sent for to the friend-makers, as they called them, and so
named in the law; and this was the fruit of that oath: three
men were imprisoned several years in order to trial. I think,
if it was so, it was in order to a trial at the day of judgment,
as by an instance at your table. (fn. 20)
The fault was not here in the persons, but in the extravagant power. I doubt, if you pass this vote, it will be charged
upon you that you create prerogatives. You must be sent
up to the Lords, for your limitations and troubles abroad
may be told you, so as to put it off two or three years.
I would have these two go together, with the particle
"and." If you separate them, if you please to give me
leave, I will offer you a proposal to that purpose; "that the
government of the Commonwealth of England, agreed upon
in the Protector, shall be intrusted in his hands, under such
limitations as shall be agreed upon by this Parliament," which
will answer all ends.
Colonel Bennet. I rejoice that things come nearer to an
end. I hope we shall come to a better agreement afterwards.
I have been well taught in this debate.
All our governments were accepted and owned by all our
allies abroad. So it is moved not to question any of these
authorities. The honourable interest of the Gospel and the
Protestant cause has been professed under all these administrations. I take all these to be lawful authorities, and the
worst of them to be better than any yet propounded.
I confess I have no principle engaging me to any particular form of Government, exclusive of any other Government.
It is light stuff for Government laid upon Nimrod, a great
thief, or Adam's, (fn. 21) which was an economy rather than a Government. There is no text in scripture where they instituted a monarchical Government. I think it is profitable at
this time to have a single person and two Houses. I liked a
Commonwealth well; but not at this time, when we are so
full of distraction. If you were a tabula rasa, I should be
against putting the first question without the latter; but I
would not part with a bad Government till sure of another,
for posterity's sake.
I am convinced that it will not follow that by this vote you
give away your liberties. I cannot believe the single person
will do it. He cuts off himself, in cutting off this Parliament.
He stands but upon a single vote, and the Parliament dissolved, the vote is also dissolved, and what will another Parliament say ? There need be no jealousy, therefore.
I earnestly desire that the question may be so stated as to
take in the liberties of the people too; to recognize him to
be the undoubted Protector, and that this vote be part of a
Bill for settling the Government.
Mr. Stapleton. I conceive we are not fit for the question
at present. Deliberation of it will produce the safest conclusions. Those that brought in the additions for the liberties of the people, tend to unity, and this grave and honour,
able council ought rather to take in those things that tend to
union than to disunion. What more acceptable than his
Highness to marry these together ?
We ought to look for having another preliminary. The
additions seem to speak above-board. The other side have a
reserve. The bottom cannot be fathomed.
There can be nothing spoken contrary to it. That seems
to be kept in which is not spoken out. We seem all to
agree to a recognition, but only with the additions. That
your ship may come in most laden, take in the additions.
Pardon, if I make a little retrospect briefly, and all in order
to the question.
I have heard a large narrative of things. I shall only be as
pne come into this nation in the time of the Commonwealth,
when kingship was laid aside as useless, &c. Once devolved
into a Commonwealth, we stayed not long there; though still
asserted to be a Commonwealth ever since, under a Protector.
This was to heal the disorder and confusion: as well to keep
out the mischiefs of arbitrariness, on one hand, and confusions
on the other hand: only a single person here was more conspicuous. Formerly a king and his realm: here, a Protector and
Those honourable persons and worthies that sat in the last
Parliament thought fit to make some additions to the power,
but not to take it from a Commonwealth, though first brought
in with king; those worthies, finding a single person, thought
to turn all things upon that hinge, but that startled: that
was not then received. What others may do, I know not.
The Petition and Advice, as now stated, does not alter the
form of a Commonwealth, to remain in that estate still.
Therefore, with respect to those eminent worthies that then
were, let us have the hinges another way. A dwarf upon a
giant's shoulders may see farther. A single person we have all
asserted. We may also take in a Commonwealth. Therefore, lay down that maxim, and such may be the resolution.
Men give not counsel to affairs, but affairs to men; not
always good counsels, well digested. If you consider affairs
in the providentials; all providences have rather bent that
way, to respect the liberties of the people; if intrinsically
they do not follow. The high refined spirit of the nation
looks that way, as an honourable person emphatically observed.
Methinks we have left that track of providence, we have somewhat turned out of the way; no wonder at our exorbitances
in council, &c.
Mr. Gerrard took him down and said: We have heard a
long sermon. It is late to have another. I am informed he
is not capable to sit in this House. He has been Chaplain to
a regiment and in arms too, as I am informed.
Mr. Reynolds said, Let him be never so uncapable, he
ought not to be taken down; so the gentleman went on.
Mr. Stapleton. It is necessary to take in the additions,
that the Government may be just. The great Parliaments
declare that the additions were intrinsically in the people. It
will not be repugnant to the justice of this House to give the
people what is intrinsically their own. The Declaration in
41 (fn. 22) proves it. The late King disputed them. The sword
determined it for the people, to be theirs by way of conquest.
If it had not been clear, yet the conquest gave them a right;
but I need not that argument. There cannot be an honourable settlement without it.
The eyes of all nations are upon you for this event. A
ticklish state of affairs is at home, and hi Europe; (fn. 23) never so
ticklish as now. Therefore do things for our honour. A
barring of the negative voice in the Instrument of Government, was a tie upon him. By way of honour and compliment, it gave him some days to consider of a Bill. If he refused, it passed. (fn. 24)
We ought to go as far from the corrupt form as we can,
lest it bring in the old line. Let us lay the Government so
safe as to prevent that. They have been the cause of great
wars, and if those live embers are not wiped away, they
will revive again. Let nothing be. done rashly, that may surprise the people. I hope before this great council rise, they
will lay such a careful foundation as there shall be no exception against.
A great danger of evil counsel arises from favourites and
sycophants, as has been told you. A man will feel better to
be put into a capacity not to be able to hurt, than to have
power to hurt. It will be more safety and honour for us, to
make the vote as plain, perspicuous, and with as much unity
as may be. If we overlook the great concerns of the people
that we represent, it is a question whether they will recognize us.
I have discharged my duty to his Highness in praying
those land-marks may be set up, that he may not be split;
my duty to the people in caring for their liberties, my duty
to you in desiring that both may be joined for unity's sake.
Mr. Speaker summed up all the debate.
We are indeed in a wood, a wilderness, a labyrinth. Some
affirmative, some negative, which I cannot draw into one
question. Put the question singly.
Colonel Kenrick. If you let the question go together, I
am ready to give my yea or no; but if you put it singly, I
desire to speak. The title, Protector, brought in a Government with it, this brings in no Government with it. Adam,
being put into the garden, had a Government given in with
him, (fn. 25) what to do, and what not to do.
I take the Petition and Advice to be out of doors. The
reason why it was desired was, that his Highness would take
the Government because of plots and dangers. (fn. 26) The Bill
for Marriages is imperfect. (fn. 27) The members from Scotland
make us imperfect. (fn. 28) We have it not made out that he was
declared Protector. (fn. 29)
Now, in conscience, am I not bound to give my no, because they are not put together? Though I have a good
mind to it, I must give my negative.
Mr. Reynolds. I know not how, at this time of day, and
against the sense of the House to speak. Yet I must satisfy
my conscience, though I offend against your sense.
Some cried out he had spoke.
Sir Henry Vane. He ought not to have been taken down.
Mr. Grove. The chair ought to direct us to keep to the
point. He began before with his oath, and so began again.
Mr. Reynolds. I hope that gentleman that is a conscientious man will not be offended that I began with my oath. I
took the oath, uno flatu, and I desire the vote may be uno
flatu, both for the single person and the people's liberties.
A gentleman said, the liberties of the people ought to be preferred before any family in the world. He was sent to the
Tower for it, and after he had stayed without two years, was
called in again.
Colonel Fielder and Mr. Bodurda took him down, and appealed if he did not tell this very same story on Friday. (fn. 30)
Let us have this question now, and if we be of another
mind two years hence, we will agree with him.
Mr. Reynolds sat down.
The question was put in the affirmative.
Colonel West. I am for the first part of the question, but
not without the other part. I except against the word "undoubted." I shall forbear to speak my doubts at present. I
shall only speak, that the militia be preserved to the people,
as necessary at this time. I would have it done before you
rise; as so natural to the people that you cannot deny it. By
the law of the nation, I can go into any part of the nation
with my sword, to defend myself, and not ask leave of another.
I may kill the assailant, and defend my house by force against
force. I take the law to be so. The tribe that sent me
hither, and another hopeful person in my eye, (fn. 31) how shall we
answer it to the people that sent us ? We must have money
before we rise; but they will say, what have you done?
Have you given unlimited power to a single person ?
The place that I serve for, is impoverished by this very
same thing. I was sorry to hear those reflections upon the
former Parliament. The Appeal hangs yet upon the file. It
is not a dubious thing. I am bold, and necessitated by those
that sent me hither. We formed ourselves into a garrison to
defend that natural power of having the sword in our hands.
We had no bye ends. We suffered our houses to be on fire
all about us.
I would not have us contend, so much as in arguments,
against it. I hope those that are in the army would not desire to be in the army upon another principle. Divers persons
have deeply engaged. I have heard it said of this gentleman, that he is without guile and without guilt; (fn. 32) and I
hope he will say, it is good news from this House, that his
interest and the interest of the people are so well matched together. It was minded well by Colonel Terrill. (fn. 33) I shall
not trouble you with repeating the question; but put them
together or put neither.
Sir Walter Earle. The militia was not the quarrel. I
would have the question put, whether you will have any additions.
Mr Reynell. I differ from that gentleman. The militia
was the ground of the quarrel.
I stand not up to speak against a single, person, but against
a single person so clothed, or rather armed, by the Petition
and Advice. Where you say "undoubted," you own that
law by which he claims. But if the power is in that law, I
am loth to remember it.
It was told you by a gentleman from the floor, (fn. 34) that this
was the greatest means and art to enslave the people that ever
was, with the Petition and Advice. I shall not mention the
reflections. There are good men on both sides. Weigh
those great powers of the Other House. I have not heard
that argument answered, that the Other House is dead by
the second Article. (fn. 35)
Colonel Terrill. It hath been told us, that we were men of
intemperate spirits that served in the last Parliament. This
was declared July 3,1658. A godly minister told me, "I
was loth to go up and tell the people you were such bad
men." Divers gentlemen look to see whether the spirit of
young gentlemen (fn. 36) will incline to give away your cause;
whether you will destroy the foundation you have built
upon. I will meditate the words of the Psalmist. Posterity
will not applaud the same, (fn. 37) if we leave it thus; if you
clothe the Chief Magistrate with these kind of powers.
An observation I have met withal, of a great reason why
the Turkish Government stands, because no lawyer ministers;
but you have all such ingenious persons here. Are you able
to bear this ?
1. To the negative voice. 2. To the militia. I shall
offer whether it is not rational to join these, as declared 20th
May, 1642. I shall leave that to the learned, that understand that about the negative voice. Their bows did not
abide in strength that opposed it. The militia was clearly
declared to be yours in 42, and committed to the care of Sergeant Browne. A declaration of Lords and Commons. (fn. 38) I
shall offer nothing done under the force.
A declaration, 13th March, 1647, in answer to the Scots, I
shall offer to you. I shall read the declaration." As to the
militia as the principal ground of our quarrel, the King cannot make laws without them. It makes the King capable
of doing all harm." What can a man say that speaks after
the King ? What can I say, that speak after the great declaration ? I would have all taken together.
Sir John Lenthall. I move that you recognize his Highness under the style and name of Chief Magistrate, to govern
the nation according to the laws, &c. (fn. 39)
Major-general Kelsey. I shall not trouble you long. I
hope we are not jealous of one another; but only jealous for
the liberties of those we serve.
He repeated the debate, and that some persons were not
satisfied; but they should be excluded by the first vote.
Therefore, he would have a previous vote that nothing shall
be binding in this vote till all be passed.
Sir John Northcote. I can give my vote neither way, if
you put the first question. I would have you put the question if you will have any additions.
Mr. Jenkinson. I move to add to the question, that nothing bind by this vote till ther Bill be passed.
Mr. Starkey. I am an earnest suitor to you, in order to
the good of the people, that you recognize his Highness to
Lord Fairfax. I desire that the militia and the other
question may go together, that we give it not out of our
hands to any single person, but that it be intrusted where it
may be serviceable to itself and to the people. (fn. 40)
Captain Baynes. I hear a great debate about cognize, or
recognize. I move that the question be, whether recognize
shall be part of the question.
Mr. Speaker was going.to put the question for an addition.
Sir Henry Vane. If it pass in the negative, nobody can
speak to the terms. First word your question.
Mr. Attorney-general. I agree that if it pass in the ne
gative, you cannot speak to the wording the question. I
would have you put if the word, recognize, shall be part of
Mr. Neville. The word, recognize, gives away the question. It betokens slavery.
Mr. Goodrich. We were not slaves in Queen Elizabeth's
time, and it was the language then.
Mr. Scot. The grounds of the word recognize, then and
in the times of Hen. VIII. and Hen. IV., were different
from ours. The reason for Henry IV.'s recognition, was
because Richard II. was alive, and his competitor. It was
in contradiction to competitors; only to distinguish persons.
An Act of Parliament passed to legitimate Queen Elizabeth,
because it was questioned whether she were fit to reign or no.
King James came from another kingdom and another family.
There was no recognition to King Charles, and no need of it.
He had no competitor. I can decognize Charles Stuart and
that family, but recognize I cannot. It comprehends the
merits of the question.
We must now speak or ever hold our peace. It was told
that the great seal was sent for, two or three times, and either
his Highness was not so well, or I know not what; it was sent
back again. (fn. 41) The Privy Council made him. I would have
him to be your creature, and he will be more tender of your
liberties and privileges. If I recognize, I must be satisfied
how he was declared, according to the Petition and Advice.
We are not ingenuously dealt withal, for this is but a wing
of the debate, and the wing will be out of your reach. If
this pass, you will take a little breath between that and caring for the liberties of the people; and then money must be
had for this Protector.
I was saying I would be a slave, but I would not neither,
till I needs must. If I could have lived safely in any other
part, I would not have lived here. I would be content it
should be set upon my monument,—if it were my last act I
own it,—I was one of the King's judges, (fn. 42) I hope it shall not
be said of us, as of the Romans once; O homines, ad servitutem parati! He that would take up half a vote, as to the
distribution of the members, will not he take up half a vote
if you recognize ? Get your liberties as you can. It is a
lame question without the other part.
Mr. Bodurda. This gentleman is mistaken of the debate
upon the negative voice or militia, which was never talked on
till after the previous vote. It is said, recognition is only fit
in case of competition; surely Charles Stuart is a competitor. (fn. 43)
Mr. Higgons. True, recognize is a French word; so is
Parliament and declaration. If we exclude all French and
Latin words, we shall not have words left in our own language to express ourselves.
Mr. Disbrowe. We shall, at one dash, root out the liberties of the people, if we go now, de novo, to make a Chief Magistrate. I doubt, if we have not a Chief Magistrate in
being, we are in a sad condition, and have taken God's name
in vain. I doubt if we acknowledge it not, as not to be in
being, other Parliaments will question what we have done,
and recognize every Parliament.
Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper. The word, recognize, goes to
things and not to persons. I appeal to the long-robe men, if
recognize take not in all the laws, Petition and Advice, and
all powers given by that.
Mr. Gott. We have been debating by wholesale: now in
words; next will be in syllables; and we shall, I hope, at last,
come to the syllables yea and no, to determine all. We have
had Stadtholder, Sequestrator, Plunderer, and harder words
offered to us. The word, recognize, signifies no more but a
bare acknowledgment of what is, (fn. 44) be it by the Petition and
Advice, or what way soever it be. It is se debui makes the
debt, not the recognovit. If I acknowledge a man my son,
it respects no time past. They are plain, innocent words,
words in terminis, in the oath. The oath is nothing but the
echo of what he is. Nobody without doors doubts it.
As I would have the Parliament to speak nothing but
what is just, nothing but truth, so to speak nothing but what
is sense. It is to say he is a Chief Magistrate without a
Chief Magistracy. It is appositum ab opposito. Let us take
in all. If we must take in this, we must take in the Protestant religion and confession of faith; and where you will
end I know not.
I am against the additions, because I am for the question.
Mr. Speaker. I move that I may withdraw, unless you
will resolve to adjourn.
Mr. Speaker, by consent of the House, withdrew, and divers members, at past three went to dinner, and an hour after
the Speaker returned to the chair.
In the interim, a heat happened between Colonel Okey
and Mr. Hampden; (fn. 45) relating to his differing from his former
Sir Arthur Haslerigge said he would never speak to him
till he avowed his former principles, and said, "Those that
have not bled, can bleed as well as those that have bled, if
Sir William Wheeler moved to adjourn, before he spoke to
Sir Arthur Haslerigge seconded.
Sir William Wheeler went on, and moved to change the
word recognize for an English word, "acknowledge."
Serjeant Maynard seconded it.
Mr. Higgons. I move that both words stand, recognize
and acknowledge. It is but bellum grammaticale, that we
Mr. Speaker was going to put the question.
Colonel West. I move not to put the question upon us,
till you take in the militia and negative voice.
Sir Henry Vane. I move that the question first be put,
whether you will leave out the word, recognize. (fn. 46)
Mr. Hewley. If neither recognize or acknowledge shall
stand, we shall have no word.
Mr. Bulkeley. I am indifferent which of the words be in.
Acknowledge is as plain an English word as can be.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I am against both the words, recognize and acknowledge. I see it is likely to go against us;
yet I would make as much of a bad matter as I can.
This looks like a new warfare. We come to set up votes
that are live quarrels, like York and Lancaster. I believe,
in my soul, it will bring a war upon this nation, alive or not
Serjeant Maynard took him down.
There is no likelihood of a war between the two words.
There is nothing of life against life in those words.
Sir Arthur Haskrigge went on.
I intended to move for two other English words, which our
law knows, constitute and appoint. I except against the
words, undoubted, under such conditions, &c.
If that fail, we may go out and beg, "Lord have mercy
Mr. Bulkeley. I move the last speaker to repeat the last
words, that usually are of most moment.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge stood up, and said over again the
Mr. Turner. I see we agree about the thing, and only disagree about the words. I would have both recognize and
declare laid aside, and say only, that his Highness is Lord
Protector, and that will satisfy all.
The question was put, if the, word "recognize" shall stand,
both in the affirmative and negative.
Mr. Sadler was spied to stand up before the negative was
put, and went on,
I understand not the word, recognize; but it may fetch in
more. The whole matter may come in upon that question.
For aught I know, I shall never speak more. I would entertain strangers kindly, they may be angels; a saying in
scripture. (fn. 47) If only I and my family were to be sold away,
but souls and consciences will speak. If we hold our peace,
the stones will speak; (fn. 48) our ancestors' tombs will speak.
I find not the Protector's name in the oath. It is only to
his lawful rights. There was as strong an oath of allegiance
before, as could be. You came to dispute the King's rights
and person. Recognition speaks to acknowledge a debt.
Take in that word, and you acknowledge a debt. A recognition was the solemnest way of attesting a debt, in the presence of the King, according to the ancient custom of the
nation. An acknowledgment of a debt before the King, was
not only of a debt, but a duty. (fn. 49) But, on my soul and con
science, pass this, and it will be out of doors to consider thisafter.
I should profane if I should in terms express how much I
honour his now Highness and his father. I would have it
scanned, what it is to be Supreme Magistrate. I shall go as
far as any man, if I may understand. Is it to be High Constable, Supreme Sheriff, or any thing of that kind ?
I may acknowledge a supreme judicial executive power, I
speak to them that know the law. Either supreme
1. As coming in by way of inheritance and succession, and
so by the common-law: or
2. By some positive Act. Not only Supreme Governor in
respect of power, Supreme Majesty, or Supreme Magistrate
set down in the throne.
You give it away, you play it away; you do not sell it,
you have nothing for it. I speak it here for the life and liberty of the Protector. I stand here to plead for him. The
more power is added, the sooner will he down.
You leap into all regal majesty, if you confirm him in that
authority. It win be declared in Westminster Hall, that it
is an ill foundation. Consider the nature of the thing. It
matters not what the words be. If you declare him to be
Supreme Magistrate, and say not what it is, you give up all
fought for lately, body, soul, and spirit, a negative voice;
you declare him to be whatever he does think himself to be.
He shall rule over slaves, not over fools.
It was not very lately that either heir or successor was debated in Parliament. If he thought himself undoubted, he
would never come to you to ask it. You beg the question,
you give up all that can be given, House of Lords, and power
to dissolve you by law; all that ever is in the Petition and
Advice; all that ever he is tied up to by his oath. I love
those that love themselves, so that they do it happily and
well. God never curses us, nor enslaves us. I believe him
wiser, in my soul, than to desire to rule over those that will
make themselves slaves.
There is a law in France, that after a man has lost his suit
he may speak nine days. I will come here to speak nine
days and nine nights. I will not go to any closet to pray,
but I will pray here.
We are taught to cry down royalty, as the head of the
beast. I am afraid we shall make him the image of that
beast, to give him an unlimited power. If a man, he rules
over men so far as he is bounded by the right reason of
man; but if over beasts, he must be a beast. Water is not
then free when it covers all the face of the earth, but when it
is in its channel; so man, when out of the channel of reason.
If you please, make a Committee, really to consider how
you may not take his just rights, nor lose your own just
rights. I hear say, I am bound by my oath. If you make
me not free, I must send it up to the Other House. I am
sworn. Another House they are, de facto.
This is worthy of the serious consideration of the wisest
men about you.
Mr. Speaker. The sun does not stand still, but I think
you do not go forward.
The question being put, that this word, "recognize" shall
stand in the question.
Mr. Speaker declared for the Noes.
Mr. Dunch and Mr. Fleetwood declared for the Yeas.
Mr. Speaker declared the Yeas to go out.
Colonel Birch said, the Noes ought to go out.
Sir Henry Vane. The Yeas ought to go out.
The Yeas went out accordingly.
Yeas 191. Colonel Cook and Colonel Grosvenor, Tellers.
Noes 168. Sir Arthur Haslerigge and Mr. Neville, Tellers.
So it was resolved, that this word, "recognize," shall stand
in the question.
The main question (fn. 50) being put in the affirmative,—
Sir Henry Vane. I wish I could speak out; for it deserves
it. You had another question, whether you should have any
addition. (fn. 51)
Mr. Weaver. I would have no question put upon an addition, but would have all the question put together; otherwise
we shall not unanimously concur. For those that are for the
addition, and lose it, then they must give their vote against
the Recognition, which I would not have.
Mr. Knightley. Put the single question first, which is the
substance of the Bill, and I hope we shall all be affirmative
Mr. Scot. If I cannot have the qualifications, I for one
shall give my negative.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I would have the question put,
whether there shall be any addition or no.
Serjeant Maynard and Mr. Turner. Though it pass in the
negative now, yet it bars not your Committee from making an
Mr. Attorney-general. If the question be carried in the affirmative, that you will have an addition, then you are in the
wood again. Your addition may be made at the Committee.
I am against an unlimited power. My gown binds me to it.
Let us agree in this. I am confident we shall be ingenuous.
Colonel Morley. As all is expressed in the oath, why not
put all together in the question. Let us not part them.
Lieutenant-general Ludlow. I wish the vote had gone in
the negative. The main question would have passed more
unanimously. I cannot agree with the word, "undoubted."
Many arguments have been offered against it, but none answered, but by "Question, question !"
It must either be by divine right, by conquest, or by common consent. By divine right he cannot be. Moses and the
judges had a call from the people. (fn. 52) It was said the King
should not multiply unto himself horses, (fn. 53) meaning power.
You cast off God, if you cast off that question. He has not
conquered you, his father has not. Consider how you give it
away by wholesale, and beg it by retail. (fn. 54)
Let not a vote pass by a small number of men, haply that
by your Petition and Advice are not qualified. (fn. 55) It is the
reason of your vote must carry it abroad.
We are ground between two millstones. The other House
is a sword. I must say so. Either bring the sword to the
property of the nation, or the sword will bring property to
them. Though a Commonwealth be odious amongst you; yet
it is not your wisdom to depart from it.
I doubt this word, recognize, admitted, will cause a great
many negatives to the main question. I would have the
questions go together.
Captain Baynes. Without the additions put in the question I must give my negative to it. Put it either that you
will have both together, or whether you will have an addition.
Mr. St. Nicholas. I am against the word, undoubted. A
rule in law, nil notum Judici, quod non notum Judici aliter.
Let it appear judicially before you by the instrument whereby
declared. (fn. 56) Let that be on your journals. If there be not
such an instrument, but that a title must be sworn out, it
might have been also sworn out for the gentleman (fn. 57) on the
other side of the dike.
I would have it but by way of appointment. If you take
not care, now, for the limitations, I never expect to hear of
Mr. Disbrowe. I shall speak to the word, undoubted.
He had undoubted power to declare, and did, undoubtedly,
declare. (fn. 58)
1. He was proclaimed in all the three nations, undoubtedly.
2. He, undoubtedly, called us hither as undoubted Protector.
If some limitations be not put in, we shall not be able to
answer it, either to God or man; but it is not seasonable
now. I would have you put the question, if, at this time, additions shall be to the question; or put it, if now it shall be
Colonel White. I know, by right of the House, we must
have the other question for additions; but I shall only speak
to the word, undoubted. That was not in the Bill: I wonder
how it comes in now. It is not a salutation from all the
counties (fn. 59) that will make the title, undoubted. I would have
that word left out, and the question put for the additions.
Mr. Speaker. The word, undoubted, came instead of the
word, lawful. (fn. 60)
Mr. Fagge. I would have the word, undoubted, left out.
Mr. Salway. It is late, and if you go any further, you
will make it but a work of darkness. I would have you adjourn.
Sir Henry Vane. If you will not listen to the voice of my
worthy neighbour, let us have candles, that we may see to put
Mr. Jenkinson. I move to leave out the word, undoubted,
or else put the question to leave it out.
The question was put, that the word "undoubted" shall
stand in the question.
Mr. Speaker declared for the Noes.
Sir William Lawson declared for the Yeas.
Mr. Trevor. I move rather to yield than divide the House.
I would yield it.
So it passed in the negative.
The question being put that candles be now brought in.
Mr. Speaker declared for the Yeas.
Lord Lambert declared for the Noes.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I move that the Yeas go forth;
because it is extraordinary to sit with candles.
The Yeas went forth.
Yeas 209. Sir Richard Temple and Mr. Ansley, Tellers.
Noes 153. Colonel Eyre and Mr. Howe, Tellers.
Resolved, that candles be now brought in. They were
brought in accordingly.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I never knew good of candles.
Sir William Widdrington brought in two candles from the
clerk, against the direction of the House, and was sent to the
Tower next morning. (fn. 61)
Mr. Bampfield. I move to alter the words of the question,
and to say, Richard Lord Cromwell is Lord Protector, and
not that Richard Lord Protector is Lord Protector.
I would not have the question put now for the additions.
If it be carried in the negative it is not fit to lie upon your
books. It bars not your Committee.
Sir Henry Vane. Either put this question, or else you
are not so ingenuous to exclude our votes. If this addition
be left out, you direct your Committee to pass a short Bill
to recognize, without passing any thing for the other.
Mr. Solicitor-general. I like ingenuousness and clearness.
If this vote pass not into a Bill, it binds neither this House,
nor any without doors. I would have a vote that nothing
be binding till all be passed.
Mr. Neville. You are now where you were in the King's
time. He had a long hereditary right, which, without the
sword, could not be obtained. Unless we speak now for the
people, we must for ever hold our peace. (fn. 62) I would have the
vote for an addition.
Mr. Knightley seconded Mr. Solicitor-general's motion for
a previous vote.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I am one of those that fear that
when this is gone, all is gone. I have been as much deceived
in men as ever was man. I will trust men no more.
I would have nothing of the negative voice and the militia
go along with it; or if any thing shall be added, I am clear
we cannot meddle with the militia nor negative voice in this
1, 300,000l. per annum, (fn. 63) was taken, notwithstanding the previous vote.
Sir Walter Earle and Serjeant Maynard. A vote does not
oblige the Parliament. If it never pass in the Bill, it never
passeth for a law. If that question go against them, why do
they strive to put it under that danger ? Then they may
propound any thing at the Committee: so they conclude
themselves. Would have a previous vote, that nothing shall
Sir Anthony Ashley Cooper differed from them.
If it pass in the negative, you are excluded at your Committee. A proviso may be brought in. Votes will remain
on our books when we are gone, and it will appear that we
had also care of the people. You will have it committed and
nothing appear. I would have both appear on our books together.
Mr. Bodurda offered an expedient that nothing should be
binding till all was passed; and that before the Bill was committed, provision should be made for the people's rights and
That would not satisfy the contrary party, for after a strong
proposal for it, it was yielded on the other side, that the question should be put, if any addition should be made to the
The question was put, that this question be now put, and
it passed in the negative, by above one hundred votes. (fn. 64)
The question being propounded, that it be part of this
Bill to recognize and declare his Highness, Richard, Lord
Protector, to be the Lord Protector and Chief Magistrate of
England, Scotland, and Ireland, and the dominions and territories thereunto belonging; the question was put, that this
question be now put; and it passed in the affirmative, (paucis contra.)
So the main question being put, it was
Resolved, ut supra.
Mr. Trevor then offered, of his own accord, to the end the
other party might not go away displeased, that it also be resolved, and was, with but one negative (fn. 65) to it,
Resolved, that before this Bill be committed, this House
do declare such additional clauses to be part of the Bill, as
may bound the power of the Chief Magistrate, and fully secure the rights and privileges of Parliament, and the liberties and rights of the people; and that neither this, nor any
other previous vote, that is or shall be passed in order to
this Bill, shall be of force or binding to the people until the
whole Bill be passed. (fn. 66)
The House then rose at ten; all parties well appeased.