Friday, March 25, 1659.
I came late. It seems several reports had been offered,
and a petition from Ireland read and committed. Query,
the Diurnal and Journals for all ? (fn. 1)
Lord Fairfax was absent, and but a thin House. Query,
what it means that the main question about transacting
is so staved off? Some play or other is in point.
It is hoped the old Speaker will be to take the Chair
on Monday, to end the question that he left so in the suds.
He is come to town.
When I came in, I found the House about to divide upon
Sir Sackvile Crowe's business; but it seems the business
was referred to the Grand Committee of Trade.
He sets forth his being prisoner ever since 48. (fn. 2)
Colonel Terrill reported from the Grand Committee of
Grievances and Courts of Justice.
The petition of one Marcellus Rivers, and Oxenbridge
Foyle, as well on the behalf of themselves as of three score
and ten more freeborn people of this nation now in slavery
in the Barbadoes; setting forth most unchristian and barbarous usage of them.
To the Honourable the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses,
assembled in Parliament, the representative of the freeborn
people of England.
The humble petition of Marcellus Rivers and Oxenbridge
Foyle, as well on the behalf of themselves as of three score
and ten more freeborn people of this nation now in slavery,
That your distressed petitioners and the others, became
prisoners at Exeter and Ilchester, in the west, upon pretence
of Salisbury rising, in the end of the year 1654, (fn. 3) although
many of them never saw Salisbury, nor "bore arms in their
lives. Your petitioners, and divers of the others, were
picked up as they travelled upon their lawful occasions.
Afterwards, upon an indictment preferred against your
petitioner Rivers, ignoramus was found; your petitioner
Foyle never being indicted: and all the rest were either
quitted by the jury of life and death, or never so much
as tried or examined. Yet your petitioners, and the others,
were all kept prisoners by the space of one whole year, and
then on a sudden, (without the least provocation,) snatched
out of their prisons; the greatest number by the command
and pleasure of the then High-Sheriff, Coplestone, and
others in power in the county of Devon, and driven through
the streets of the city of Exon, (which is witness to this
truth,) by a guard of horse and foot, (none being suffered to
take leave of them,) and so hurried to Plymouth, aboard the
ship John, of London, Captain John Cole, Master, where,
after they had lain aboard fourteen days, the Captain
hoisted sail; and at the end of five weeks and four days
more, anchored at the Isle of Barbadoes, in the West Indies,
being (in sailing) four thousand and five hundred miles
distant from their native country, wives, children, parents,
friends, and whatever is near and dear unto them; the
captive prisoners being all the way locked up under decks,
(and guards,) amongst horses, that their souls, through
heat and steam, under the tropic, fainted in them; and they
never till they came to the island knew whither they were
Being sadly arrived there on the May 7. 1656, the
master of the ship sold your miserable petitioners, and the
others; the generality of them to most inhuman and barbarous persons, for one thousand five hundred and fifty
pound weight of sugar a-piece, more or less, according to
their working faculties, as the goods and chattels of Martin Noell and Major Thomas, Aldermen of London, and Captain H. Hatsell, of Plymouth; neither sparing the aged of
seventy-six years old, nor divines, nor officers, nor gentlemen,
nor any age or condition of men, but rendering all alike
in this inseparable captivity, they now generally grinding
at the mills and attending at the furnaces, or digging in this
scorching island; having nought to feed on (notwithstanding
their hard labour) but potatoe roots, nor to drink, but water
with such roots washed in it, besides the bread and tears of
their own afflictions; being bought and sold still from one
planter to another, or attached as horses and beasts for the
debts of their masters, being whipped at the whipping-posts
(as rogues,) for their masters' pleasure, and sleeping in sties
worse than hogs in England, and many other ways made
miserable, beyond expression or Christian imagination.
Humbly your Petitioners do remonstrate on behalf of
themselves and others, their most deplorable, and (as to
Englishmen) their unparalleled condition; and earnestly beg
that this High Court, since they are not under any pretended conviction of law, will be pleased to examine this
arbitrary power, and to question by what authority so great a
breach is made upon the free people of England, they having
never seen the faces of these their pretended owners, merchants that deal in slaves and souls of men, nor ever heard
of their names before Mr. Cole made affidavit in the office of
Barbadoes, that he sold them as their goods; but whence
they derived their authority for the sale and slavery of
your poor petitioners, and the rest, they are wholly ignorant
to this very day. That this High Court will be farther
pleased to interest their power for the redemption and reparation of your distressed petitioners, and the rest; or if the
names of your petitioners, and the number of the rest, be
so inconsiderable as not to be worthy of relief or your tender
compassion, yet, at least, that this Court would be pleased
on die behalf of themselves and all the free-born people of
England, by whose suffrages they sit in Parliament, any of
whose cases it may be next, whenever a like force shall be
laid on them, to take course to curb the unlimited power
under which the petitioners and others suffer; that neither
you nor any of their brethren, upon these miserable terms,
may come into this miserable place of torment. A thing not
known amongst the cruel Turks, to sell and enslave those
of their own country and religion, much less the innocent.
These things being granted as they hope, their souls shall
pray, &c. (fn. 4)
Another petition was read, of one Rowland Thomas, who,
by Mr. Secretary, in 1655, was sold into the Barbadoes, as
Mr. Noell's goods. (fn. 5) His price was one hundred pounds, and
that might have redeemed him. He was barbarously used,
and made his escape. He dares not appear abroad, lest he be
re-delivered to captivity.
Sir John Coplestone. I know with what disadvantage
any man speaks that speaks against this petition.
Rivers had been Prince Maurice's quarter-master, and was
taken in arms in the business of Salisbury. He counterfeited
my hand to a pass, and was taken by the constable. I caused
him to be searched, and found fifteen cases of pistols about
him. One Mr. Rennel, a young gentleman then with him,
confessed that they were going to the insurrection at Salisbury,
but were prevented by the discovering of it.
An indictment was brought against him, and because laid
at Salisbury, and he not there, he was acquitted. I received
an order from his late Highness, to convey to Plymouth
all such persons as had been in the insurrection, and were in
custody. I sent them thither; but to what purpose they
came there I know not.
Mr. Noell. I trade into those parts. Merchants send to
me to procure such artificers to be sent over as I might think
fit for them. I have had several persons out of Bridewell
and other prisons, that I have sent over, and I had to do in
sending those; but I had only the recommending of them to
that Mr. Chamberlain.
I abhor the thoughts of setting 100l. upon any man's
person. It is false and scandalous. I indent with all persons that I send over. Indeed, the work is hard, but none are
sent without their consent. They were civilly used, and had
horses to ride on.
They serve most commonly five years, and then have
the yearly salary of the island. They have four times of
refreshing, and work but from six to six: so it is not so
hard as is represented to you; not so much as the common
husbandman here. The work is mostly carried on by the
Negroes. It is a place as grateful to you for trade as any
part of the world. It is not so odious as is represented.
Serjeant Maynard. This is a gross breach of privilege of
Parliament, and against your oath. We are not at Committees, masters of one another. No Committee ought to
judge of members without your leave, unless it be at a Committee of Privileges, which is by your order. This comes in
very irregularly, and the chairman ought to have rejected
this petition. I shall not speak to the matter, that it is
a Cavalier's petition. (fn. 6)
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I am not, and have not been, a
friend to Cavaliers; and am as much for privileges of this
House as any man. Yet I cannot agree but that this comes
in regularly, and I challenge all the Long Robe to answer
me. If any person offer me a Petition at the door against a
member, shall I hot present it ? Much more may a Committee of Grievances.
The high breach of privilege in the King, was that fie
brought the charge against the five members (fn. 7) to the Lords'
House, and not to you. We might have answered it here,
and if brought hither, it had been no breach.
As to these Petitions, the Committee have made no judgment, but in wisdom to bring the Petitions hither. I would
have no discouragement given to your Committee, to receive
grievances, though they concern a member. I have heard of
divers Petitions against members for Ireland, which, rather
than they be not presented, I said I would offer them. You
have, in a prudential way, taken the Scotch and Irish members. You will, I hope, in prudence, also hear complaints
Sir Walter Earle took him down, because he kept not to
the matter; but acknowledged the chairman had done wisely.
Mr. Neville. They marked their Petitions, and reading
them, as soon as ever they found members named they left
off, and thought of reporting it as it stands now.
Lord Lambert made the same narrative.
Colonel Clark. The privilege of Parliament was highly
broken, for the Committee did debate it as well as read the
petition. It was done but last night. It was too hard and
quick. They gave Rivers a protection to give evidence.
The case concerns a Cavalier. You ought to be tender
how you encourage that party. I understand Sir Arthur
Haslerigge's argument, that a Committee may debate a charge
against a member, because a single member may present a
Petition to you.
Mr. Speaker. No Grand Committee nor Privilege Committee can receive any original Petition against a member of
this House, without a high breach of privilege.
Mr. Secretary. I hear myself named in the Petition. I
must agree with those gentlemen that say it comes in against
a fundamental order. It is a Cavalier petition brought in
against your members. We might well have been heard,
before your Committee had made a judgment in it. It is the
first time that I heard of it. I am much surprised to see
this Petition brought in. I never thought to have lived to
see this day, while we have an army in the field and the cause
Your Committee gave Rivers a protection to come here to
prosecute. I know of something of the matter; but shall
only speak to Thomas's petition. He is mistaken in matter-offact. I did not commit him to the Tower. (fn. 8)
He was the King's agent here; and pretended relation to Sir
Robert Shirley. (fn. 9) He bought several trunks of arms, and sent
them into the country in that great plot; and it was said it
was so subtilely and dangerously laid, that it was impossible
to prevent it, if divers of them had not been committed. It
was for your service. A justice of peace may send any man
to prison that cannot find bail.
Encouraging petitions of this nature, in complaint of oppressions, is to set you at division. It comes in by combination with the King's party. It has almost set the nation in a
flame. While you are about hearing their complaints here, I
doubt, they are preparing themselves for arms against you.
This fellow, under your, wings and colour of this protection,
may better carry on his master's business, as Reed did, who
came over to solicit Lord Craven's business. (fn. 10) I pray that
you would order his commitment, that he be not at his liberty, to set a flame among you.
Mr. Knightley. No complaint may come in against a
member, but by the hands of a member. When this report
was agreed on, it was done with much tenderness to your
member. This complaint is not only by Rivers, but on behalf of several others, aged gentlemen, that have been taken
up in their way, and sold.
Sir William Morton, a long-robe man, (fn. 11) writ a book. I
would have it examined. I would have all petitions read as
they come in.
Captain Hatsell. I was present at Plymouth when these
persons were shipped. I never saw any go with more cheerfulness. There were two old men and a minister. The minister had heard my name. He acquainted me that he had no
desire to go. I took upon me to release him, and another that
had no will to go. They went home to their own houses. I
gave bills of exchange for 4l. 10s. a man for their passing
over. The master of the ship told me that Rivers feigned
himself mad, and he was much troubled with him, and told
him that if he could make friends when he came over, to get
so much as his passage cost, he might be released.
Colonel White. These petitions come before you by the
name of Cavaliers, and when it appears to be so, you will I
hope make a distinction, as to those persons. If every justice
may commit a man because he cannot give a good account of
himself, I hope it will be considered. But in regard it appears to be against the free-born people of England, you can
do no less than refer them to a Committee to examine matterof-fact.
Colonel Birch. I must say with them, that it is a breach
of a fundamental order of this House to bring in this Petition
thus. This is clear and manifest to me, that this will endanger all that ever have faithfully served you, and that they
must be forced to look to themselves. This could not come
in, they durst not do it, but by being encouraged from some
place. I doubt you will raise such a flame as you will hardly
quench. I would have this Thomas committed again to the
Tower, and from henceforward I would have no petitions of
this nature come in, but such as are signed by a member who
will answer it.
Sir Henry Vane. I do not look on this business as a Cavalierish business; but as a matter that concerns the liberty
of the free-born people of England.
To be used in this barbarous manner, put under hatches,
to see no light till they came thither, and sold there for 100l:
such was the case of this Thomas.
I am glad to hear the old cause so well resented; that we
have a sense and loathing of the tyranny of the late King, and
of all that tread in his steps, to impose on liberty and property.
As I should be glad to see any discouragement upon the Cavaliers, so I should be glad to see any discouragement and
indignation of yours against such persons as tread in Charles
Stuart's steps, whoever they be. The end of the Major-generals was good as to keeping down that party, but the precedent was dangerous.
Let us not be led away, that whenever the tables turn, the
same will be imposed upon your best men, that is now designed to the worst. There is a fallacy and subtilty on both
hands. I would have you be as vigilant against that party as
you can; but if you find the liberty and property of the
people of England thus violated, take occasion from these ill
precedents to make good laws.
That which makes me hate the Cavaliers, is their cause,
and when I see others hate their cause, I shall believe them,
that they hate their persons. I detest and abhor them as
much as any. Let us not have new Cavaliers and old. Let us
hate it in those that tread in their steps, as well as in the other.
Be not cozened by popularity on the one hand by complaints
of this nature, nor on the other hand to swallow up your liberties and properties. Do not that which is bonwm only, but
Major-general Browne. I thought to have been silent till
your great business was over; but as you hear cases of Car
valiers, I hope you will hear those that have fought against
them. (fn. 13) I was used worse than a Cavalier; taken and sent
away prisoner to Wales; used with more cruelty than if in
Newgate; in a worse prison than common prisoners. My
wife and children could not come, under 200l., to see me. My
letters could not pass. The governor demanded my letters;
I said he should have my life as soon. I defended them with
The remainder of the Long Parliament, without hearing,
voted me (fn. 14) to be no member, no longer an alderman of London, nor sheriff. They kept me five years in prison, and
never laid aught to my charge.
Money was ordered me upon the excise, which Mr. Edward
Ashe offered me, 8000l. Then they took off that, and placed
it upon the dean and chapters' lands. Then one comes and
offers me 2,000l. for 4,000l. I was content to accept it, but
no lands could be purchased with Browne's money. Then
they took it wholly away.
I was always faithful to you, and never broke my trust.
I would die first. As you are hearing the grievances of
others, will you appoint a day to hear mine ? I have served
you with as much faithfulness as any, though haply not with
so much success.
Mr. Disbrowe. I hope you will, 'in due time, consider that
gentleman's grievances. That those that have fought against
you, should be taken into equal freedom with you, I understand not. The petition is brought in and signed by your
enemies. Can you believe their testimony before that of four
of your members ? Give the least encouragement to these persons, they will kindle such a fire as you will hardly quench.
We should not trust our old enemies, till they appear to be
real friends. Many petitions are before you, that have not
been read, that concern persons that have faithfully served
you. You ejected two members upon bare report of two
members, (fn. 15) and now here are Cavaliers complaining to you,
and you will believe them before four of your members.
I move to cast out the petitions, as coming in irregularly,
and let the two persons be committed.
Major Beake. I hear naught offered of weight, that these
petitions come in irregularly. Let us compare cases. Slavery is slavery, as well in a Commonwealth as under another
form. As great an instance as can be, has been offered by
I would not have your doors shut to any complaints. If
you cease to hear them, none but God in heaven can. Let us
all lay our hands on our hearts, and consider what mal-administration and recess from law have been in all times, and
compare them together. I hope you will think of Major-general Browne's case.
I would not have these persons sent to the Tower, but bail
taken of them to appear; and in the mean tune the plot to
Captain Baynes. I have had too great a zeal against Cavaliers, till I saw how that which was against law was turned
upon our friends. If they deserve hanging or imprisonment,
let them have it. It is put upon that, issue, that they went
with their consent, so a man may be sent to the galleys, or
any place of banishment. However, if they be sent against
law, I would have it referred to a Committee to examine it
Mr. Annesley. I shall ever appear as much a Cavalier as
any, (fn. 16) but not under colour of that, lose my own liberties.
In case of the Thirty Tyrants, (fn. 17) while mean people were only
questioned it was never looked on, till it came to the greater.
I am sorry to hear Magna Charta moved against this House.
If he be an Englishman, why should he not have the benefit
of it ? There are laws will take hold of any that transgress.
I know no law for banishment. The Commons of England
will, I hope, be cautious how they make any such acts. You
cannot pass it without some resolutions. To make men
delinquents for petitioning, let it never be said here! You
will not discourage grievances, so as to cast out petitions
handed to you by them. I hope your Committee will
consider upon this debate, to bring them, in more regularly.
On one hand, bo careful of your safety. That is fittest for
those that sit at the stern; his Highness and the Council.
On the other hand, be careful your liberties be not invaded
on any pretence whatsoever.
I would have them referred to a Committee.
Major-general Kelsey. I doubt we have gone so much
upon point of prudence that we shall overthrow the privilege
of this House.
That gentleman says this petition came in irregularly, and
yet he moves for retaining it. When a petition comes in
regularly, I shall not be against it. This Parliament had
not now been sitting; it had been impossible to have preserved us from blood and confusion; if, in all proceedings, his
late Highness and Council had been guided according to the
strict rules of law.
I hear it said (fn. 18) if we hate Charles Stuart and his
party, hate his practices. I would have this driven to the
head. Tyranny is tyranny, wherever it be. Distinguish between times of peace and war. Divers have been in prison
ever since 41; as for instance, Bishop Wren, (fn. 19) who was com
Ely, and he was voted 'unworthy and unfit to hold or exercise any ofmitted by the Long Parliament. Why should our doors be
so open to hear that party, that, as often as you have thrust
them down, have rose up again? I shall be as ready to do
Major-general Browne right, as any. I do make a distinction
between persons that have been led aside through dissatisfaction in some cases, and those that have been your notorious enemies.
I am informed, that your Cavaliers have taken heart in the
country, from your hearing their complaints here. Silenced
priests preach publicly. You will put the nation into such a
flame as you will hardly quench. There is Lady —'s
petition, and other petitions. I doubt, the next petition will
be from Charles Stuart. I know no law for his banishment,
if there has been no law of force since 48.
I would have these persons at your doors secured, and the
Colonel Terrill. There did nought appear to the Committee that it was against members, or that Cavaliers were
concerned in it. There was no debate at all about it, but
only as on Englishmen imprisoned and banished contrary
to law; so that all that have spoken to that have gone on
Mr. Boscawen. I am as much against the Cavalier party
as any man in these walls, and shall as zealously assert the
old cause; but you have Paul's case (fn. 20) before you. A Roman
ought not to be beaten. We are miserable slaves, if we may
not have this liberty secured to us.
I am not against the ministers of state in intervals of Parliament securing men that are dangerous; but I would have
it represented to the next Parliament, with the cause of their
These persons come to justify themselves. If you pass
this, our lives will be as cheap as those negroes. They look
upon them as their goods, horses, &c., and rack them only to
make their time out of them, and cherish them to perform
their work. It may be my case. I would have you consider
the trade of buying and selling men. (fn. 21)
Mr. Broughton. My actings speak me no Cavalier. Be
they what they will, I would have justice done them, and
their liberties preserved to them. But nought appears to me,
that aught is done against their consent, and consentus tollit
errorem. I could give my yea to cast out this petition, but
cannot consent to commit them. Let them enter bail, and
refer the business to a Committee.
Sir John Lenthall. I hope it is not the effect of our war
to make merchandize of men. I consider them as Englishmen. I so much love my own liberty as to part with aught
to redeem these people out of captivity. We are the freest
people in the world. Let us remember when we go out of
these doors, we know not what may become of us if we omit
this. They are put to such hardships, to heats and colds,
and converse with horses. If my zeal carry me beyond its
bounds, it is to plead for the liberty of an Englishman, which
I cannot hear mentioned but I must defend it.
Major Knight. I move to reject the petition; for if you
sit twelve months you will not have time to hear all petitions
from Cavaliers. What will you do with the Scots taken
at Dunbar, and at Durham and Worcester ? Many of them
were sent to Barbadoes. Will you hear all their petitions ?
Mr. Attorney-general. The petition comes in irregularly.
The person that offers any complaint against your members,
must come to your bar and own it. Here are before you the
case of a Cavalier, and the privilege of a member. You have
liberty and privilege. Preserve them both. Let the petition
be presented, and these come to the bar, own, and avow it.
I doubt these things are only framed in London, and that the
case is not so in fact as is represented. I would have it laid
aside till it come in regularly. This petitioner has been a
notorious active enemy.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge. I shall never plead for a Cavalier
in this House, but for the liberty of an Englishman, and for
Mr. Speaker took him down, and said he had spoken to the
Some moved that he might be heard.
Sir Henry Vane. I move not to make that a favour to
a member that is his right. He spoke before only to regularity of its coming in, now he is to speak to the matter of
the petition. I pray hear him.
Sir Arthur Haslerigge went on, and said, by the law of the
land, no Englishman ought to be imprisoned but in order
to a trial. We have assizes, commissions of Oyer and Terminer, that any Englishman may have death or liberty, which
he deserves. Our ancestors have ever been tender of the
liberties of Englishmen. If after a man be condemned, his
keeper kill him, he shall be hanged for it. The keeper
cannot, ought, not, to abuse him in any kind. Nor can any
man, by the law of the land, banish any man. Some of
these had sentence of death. So might the rest have had, and
not be kept in prison twelve months after, and then sent
to banishment. The time of war and the time of peace are
We have had no war these seven years. True, a little
rebellion, and some suffered. (fn. 22) Blessed be God, we have had
These men deny that they were ever sentenced, charged, or
in arms. Some were acquitted by ignoramus. These men are
now sold into slavery amongst beasts. I could hardly hold
weeping when I heard the petition:
That which is the Cavalier's case, to-day, may be the Roundhead's a year hence. I desire not to live if they prevail. I
never sought them, but we must be careful of suffering such
precedents. We are likely to be governed by an army.
When the army went to the Isle of Rhee, (fn. 23) one was hanged
up by martial law. The Parliament so abhorred it, that, if
it had sat, he that caused it to be done had lost his head.
I would have every man be careful how he acts any man's
commands against law. If there be thirty in a crowd, ten
may be guilty; the rest innocent: and haply but one innocent,
and forty guilty. Were not divers of them hanged ? Was
not that an argument that the rest are clear ?
I have never yet done aught, nor I hope shall, to give a
suspicion that I have any countenance for the Cavaliers in
this business. If our liberties be come to this, we have fought
fair and caught a frog.
I would have this business referred back to the Grand
Committee. I hope the gentlemen will be dear, and that
they will be warier hereafter. Our ancestors left us free men.
If we have fought our sons into slavery, we are of all men
Sir George Booth. I do much approve of that gentleman's
tender-heartedness. That gentleman may remember how,
in the Long Parliament, two or three thousand Protestants
were sent to the Barbadoes against their consent. (fn. 24) I hope
all that died by that plot died by law, and not by a High
Court of Justice.
The petition came in irregularly. It cannot be excused;
but now it is before you. There are things of justice, so there
is a thing of good report. It will clear the gentlemen that
are concerned, and clear the business, if you refer it back to
a Grand Committee.
Serjeant Dendy. I am ignorant of the privileges of this
House, and the liberty of the people; more shame for me. I
am glad to hear that you so well assert it; and that this
spirit will live when we are dead.
These persons petitioning are dangerous. It is told how
they brought arms, and were agents for the King. I doubt
they have neither left their master nor his principles. Safety
must have place of all.
I would have these persons secured, and the petition considered, that both the liberty of the people may be asserted,
and your safety cared for.
Lieutenant-general Ludlow. If this man had been in
prison, I should not have moved for his liberty. I would
have it referred to a Committee.
Mr. Starkey. I am an Englishman, (fn. 25) and an inheritor of
the laws, but I came hither with a resolution not to retrospect.
The breaking of laws has preserved your being. If extraordinary methods had not sometimes been taken we had not
been here at this day. It is enough that the Petitioners have
their lives assigned them in any place.
I would have the Petition laid aside.
Mr.Trevor. I move to reject it. It came in irregularly,
and, it is said, the Committee did entertain the debate upon
it, though they saw it concerned your members. It appears
they were possessed of it, else how could the chairman report
it ? This discourages your friends, heightens your enemies,
and will set. such a flame in the nation as will hardly be
I would have the two persons.secured.
Mr. Bodurda moved to reject the Petition, and remand the
Petitioners to prison.
Captain — (fn. 26) moved to remand them to prison. He
stated matter of fact at large, and proved one of them to be a
dangerous enemy and active.
— (fn. 26) moved that the Serjeant-at-arms take them into
custody, and that the Petition, in the meantime, be examined.
Serjeant Wylde stood up to speak.
After a great debate, till almost three, some moved to adjourn for an hour, others till to-morrow, but the Chair broke
through and rose without a question.
The Grand Committee of Trade sat in the afternoon, Mr.
Knightley in the chair.
A Committee concerning Ireland sat in the Star Chamber.
The Committee of the servants of the late King's children
sat in the Court of Wards.
Mr. Hewley was in the chair.
The Committee of Excise sat in the Queen's Court.
Mr. Scot was in the chair.
Five or six counsel were heard on both sides, the Brewers
against the Commissioners and Officers of Excise. (fn. 27)