House of Lords Journal Volume 9
5 June 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 5 June 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 239-243. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37050 Date accessed: 30 September 2014.


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Contents

DIE Saturni, 5 Junii.
Letters from the E. of Northumb. and the Commissioners with the King. Message from the H. C. with Votes about the Army, and with Ordinances, &c. Vote for expunging the Declaration of both Houses, of their Dislike of the Pet. from the Army, imposing Terms on them. Protest against this Vote. Message from the H. C. with a Letter to Sir T. Fairfax; and with an Ordinance. Letter to Sir T. Fairfax. Protest against it. Answer to the H. C. Message from the King, by L. Dumferling. Letter from the Scots Commissioners, desiring to impart somewhat to both Houses. Committee to meet with them. Message from the H. C. to sit P. M. Answer. Message to them, for Committees to meet with the Scots Commissioners. Letter from the E. of Northumb. that he will bring the King's Children to St. St. James's. Letter from the Commissioners with the King, that the Party of the Army, who took Possession of Holdenby, are carrying the King and them to Newmarket. Resolutions for additional Pay to the Officers and Soldiers who disband or go to Ireland. Order for 1500l. for the Committee of Accompts. Order for 10,000l. for Officers Arrears whose Accompts are stated; and 10,000l. for Private Soldiers. Letter to Sir T. Fairfax, to settle the Distractions of the Army, for which Purpose Committees will be sent to Him at Newmarket. Adjourn. Post Meridiem. Message from the King. Committee for Trade. Bentley's Petition. Order to repeal the Ordinance about Cheshire. Message from the H. C. with Ordinances and Orders. Ordinance to repeal the Declaration of Dislike to the Army Petition. Answer to the H. C. King's Letter in Answer to the Propositions. Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance; and that they have put off Private Causes. Additional Ordinance, for Indemnity of Officers, &c. Answer to the H. C. Answer from thence. Message from thence, to sit To morrow, P. M. Message from the King, that He left Holdenby unwillingly, &c. Order for repealing the Ordinance concerning Chester. Committee to confer with Sir Robert Pye, about quartering his Troop. Order for 200l. for Colonel Greaves and his Officers, &c. Order for 100l. for Lieut. Col. Jackson and his Officers, &c. Order for 200l. for Sir Robert Pye and his Officers, &c. Footnotes

DIE Saturni, 5 Junii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Delmy.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Midd.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Denbigh.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Maynard.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. North.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. La Warr.
Ds. Wharton.

Letters from the E. of Northumb. and the Commissioners with the King.

A Letter from the Earl of Northumb. was read.
A Letter from the Lord Mountagu, was read.
(Here enter them.)

Message from the H. C. with Votes about the Army, and with Ordinances, &c.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Henry Vane Senior; who brought up several Votes concerning the Army:

1. An Ordinance for Officers not in Commission to have their full Pay. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

2. A Vote for Ten Thousand Pounds for the Reduced Officers. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. A Vote for the Common Soldiers to have their full Pay. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. A Vote for Commissioned Officers to have a Month's Addition of Pay, upon Disbanding. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

5. A Vote for expunging the Declaration of the 30th of March last, concerning the Army.

6. An Ordinance for Fifteen Hundred Pounds to be paid to the Committee for Accompts. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Vote for expunging the Declaration of both Houses, of their Dislike of the Pet. from the Army, imposing Terms on them.

The Vote for expunging the Declaration concerning the Army, brought from the House of Commons, dated the 30th of March, 1647, was read, and debated.

And the Question being put, "Whether to respite the Consideration of this Vote for the present?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Then the said Vote was read again, and taken into Debate.

And the House was adjourned into a Committee for that Purpose.

The House was resumed.

Protest against this Vote.

And this Question was put, "Whether to agree to have this Declaration, made and entered into the Journal Book of this House, dated "Die Martis, 30th March, 1647," expunged or not?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Memorandum, Before the putting of this Question, these Lords following desired Leave of the House to enter their Dissents and Protestation, if the same were carried in the Affirmative: Which was granted accordingly.

"Stanford.
T. Lyncolne.
Middlesex.
Suffolke.
F. Willughbye.
W. Maynard."

Message from the H. C. with a Letter to Sir T. Fairfax;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Phillip Stapilton Knight, &c.; who brought divers Particulars, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired:

1. A Letter to be sent to Sir Thomas Fairefax.

and with an Ordinance.

2. An Ordinance for Ten Thousand Pounds to be advanced, for Satisfaction of the Arrears as shall appear due upon auditing the Accompts of the Private Soldiers within the Lines of Communication, &c.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Letter to Sir T. Fairfax.

The Letter to be sent to Sir Thomas Fairefax was read.

And the Question being put, "Whether to agree to have this Letter to be sent to Sir Thomas Fairefax?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

(Here enter it.)

Protest against it.

Memorandum, That, before the putting this Question, these Lords following desired Leave to enter their Dissents, if this Question was carried in the Affirmative: (fn. *) Which was granted; and accordingly entered their Dissents, by subscribing their Names.

"Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Hunsdon."

The Answer to the last Message was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House agree to the Order and Letter now brought up.

Message from the King, by L. Dumferling.

The House being informed, "That the Lord Dumfermling was in the Little Lobby, and said he had some Message to the Houses from the King;"

The House Ordered, To hear him.

And he being called in, he delivered the Message.

And the House (fn. *) desired him to put it in Writing, that so this House might the more deliberately think of it.

And the Speaker, in the Name of the House, gave his Lordship Thanks, for his Care in delivering this Message.

Letter from the Scots Commissioners, desiring to impart somewhat to both Houses.

A Letter from the Scotts Commissioners was read, as follows:

"My Lord,

"We have some Things of great Importance to imparte to both Houses of Parliament, which we desire to doe this Day; and leaving it to the Houses to appointe the Way, we rest

"Your Lordship's

"Most humble Servants,

"Lauderdaill.
Charles Erskine.
Hew Kennedy.
Ro. Barclay."

Committee to meet with them.

Ordered, That these Lords following are appointed to join with a Committee of the House of Commons, to meet this Afternoon, in the Painted Chamber, to receive what the Scotts shall offer; and to report the same to this House:

Comes Manchester.
Comes Pemb.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Midd.
Comes Rutland.
Comes Denbigh.
L. Grey.
L. Bruce.
L. Maynard.
L. Willoughby.
L. Hunsdon.
L. North.
L. Howard.
L. De La Warr.
L. Wharton.

Or any Seven of them.

Message from the H. C. to sit P. M.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Nevill Poole Knight, &c.

To let their Lordships know, that, upon some important Occasions, the House of Commons have Resolved to sit this Afternoon; and they desire that their Lordships would please to sit likewise.

Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will sit this Afternoon.

Message to them, for Committees to meet with the Scots Commissioners.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To deliver to them the Letter from the Scotts Commissioners; and to let them know, that this House hath appointed a Committee of Twenty Lords, to meet in the Painted Chamber, this Afternoon, to receive from the Scotts Commissioners what they have to present to the Houses; and desire that the House of Commons would nominate a Committee of a proportionable Number of their House, to join with the Lords herein; and Report hereof to be made to both Houses.

Letter from the E. of Northumb. that he will bring the King's Children to St. St. James's.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester.

"My Lord,

"This Night, at Eleven of the Clock, I received by your Messenger the Commands of the Houses, for bringing back the King's Children to St. James'; which I shall readily obey, though it will be with very great Inconveniency to them; for there is no Provision of any Kind for them in that Place. I am

Hampton Court, June4, 1647.

"Your Lordship's

"Humble Servant,
A. Northumberland."

Letter from the Commissioners with the King, that the Party of the Army, who took Possession of Holdenby, are carrying the King and them to Newmarket.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore. These.

"My Lord,

"The Party that possessed themselves of this Place upon Thursday Morning carries the King this Day to Huntingdon, in His Way to Newmarkett. We, having publicly declared to them that our Commission was to attend the King at Holdenby, and not elsewhere, till further Orders, are compelled to go along with them. Would the Convoy assigned to the Service have adhered to us, or had we been enabled by any other Force; our Resolution was, to have discharged our Trust with the Loss of our Lives, as we told them openly this Morning, when the King spoke with them in the Outer Court. But, upon the Question propounded, "Who would stand by us ?" It was replied by them all, "Not a Man." We should make you a Narrative of Cornet Joyce's Admission to speak with the King after He was in Bed last Night, when he propounded His going to the Army, and also of His Majesty's Answer given them in Public this Morning. The Effect was: The King declared, "That He came hither with His own Consent, though not so willingly as He might have done, to the Intent He might send to His Two Houses of Parliament (the greatest Power, next Himself, in England), and receive Answers from them; that He had sent them several Messages, and was in short obliged to stay for their Answers: Yet, being no Way able to oppose so many, He should go more or less willingly with them, according to the Answers they should give them; but withal required to know by what Authority they came unto Him?" They replied, "Their Authority was from the Army; that they did this of Necessity, in order to the Peace of the Kingdom, and Maintenance of the Laws, which were in great Danger of being overthrown by a Plot of divers Years since contrived amongst Persons that had a Hand in the present Government."

"To the King's Demands, which were, "That He might be treated with Honour and Respect; that He might not be forced to any Thing against His Conscience; that His Servants against whom they had no just Exception might have Liberty to attend Him;" they consented with Acclamation.

"The Confusion we are in, together with the Haste they impose upon us, gives us not Leave to make you a better Narration; but shall humbly desire that we may not be forgotten in a Condition wherein your Service hath involved us, but that we may receive your Directions; remaining

June the 4th, 1647.

"Your Lordship's

"Humble Servant,
Edw. Mountagu."

Resolutions for additional Pay to the Officers and Soldiers who disband or go to Ireland.

"Resolved, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament,

"That there shall be an Addition of a Month's Pay to the Commissioned Officers of Sir Thomas Faire's Army, both Horse and Foot, that shall either disband or engage in the Service of Ireland.

"Resolved, &c.

"That the Common Soldiers, both Horse and Foot, of Sir Thomas Fairefaxe's Army shall have their full Pay, upon their disbanding, or engaging for Ireland; deducting for Free Quarter, according to the Course and Rules of the Army.

"Resolved, &c.

"That the Officers of this Army, not in Commission, shall likewise have their full Pay, upon their disbanding, or engaging for Ireland; deducting for Free Quarter, according to the Course and Rules of the Army."

Order for 1500l. for the Committee of Accompts.

"Resolved, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament,

"That the Sum of Fifteen Hundred Pounds be advanced and paid to the Committee of Accompts, upon Accompt, to be by them (fn. *) disposed of, to reimburse themselves the Monies they have disbursed out of their own Purses; and to their Clerks and Under Officers, to enable them to take, state, and expedite, the Accompts of the Officers with all Speed, and without any Fee or Charge at all to be taken or demanded, by any Person whatsoever, from any of the said Officers, for the stating and expediting their said Accompts; and that the said Sum of Fifteen Hundred Pounds be charged upon the Receipts of the Grand Excise, in Course, with Interest for the same after the Rate of Eight Pounds per Cent. payable every Six Months; and that the Acquittance of the said Committee, or such as they shall appoint to receive the same, shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge to the Commissioners of Excise, for the Payment of the said Sum of Fifteen Hundred Pounds and Interest accordingly."

Order for 10,000l. for Officers Arrears whose Accompts are stated;

"Resolved, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament,

"That the Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds be advanced, for the Pay of Part of the Arrears, and for the Relief of the present Necessities, of such Officers whose Accompts are stated and listed, or are referred to be stated and listed, or their Debentures or Certificates, with the Committee of The Military Garden, and of the Officers of Colonel Sanderson's Regiment; and that the said Sum be paid to the Committee where Colonel Birch has the Chair, and to the Committee where Mr. John Goodwin has the Chair, joined as to this Purpose, or such as they shall appoint to receive the same, and paid out by Order of the said Committee; and they are to agree upon Rules, Instructions, and Proportions, to limit the said Payments by, in such Manner as may be for the speediest Relief of the greatest Necessities, before they order the issuing out of any of the Monies; and that this Ten Thousand Pounds be charged upon the Moiety of the Receipts at Goldsmithes Hall not given for Security for the last Two Hundred Thousand Pounds borrowed for the Service of England and Ireland, without Prejudice to the said Security, with Interest for the same, payable every Six Months; and that the Acquittance of such Person or Persons as shall be appointed to receive the same by the said Committees, so joined as aforesaid, shall be a sufficient Warrant to the Treasurers at Gouldsmiths Hall, for the Payments of the said Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds and Interest accordingly."

and 10,000l. for Private Soldiers.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Sum of Ten Thousand Pounds be advanced, for satisfying the Arrears as shall appear due, upon auditing the Accompts of the Private Soldiers, within the Lines of Communication, that have served in any of the Armies, under the Command of the Earl of Essex, Sir William Waller, Lieutenant General Massey, or Major General Browne; and that the said Ten Thousand Pounds be charged upon the Moiety of the Receipts at Gouldsmiths Hall, in Course, that is not given for Security for the Two Hundred Thousand Pounds borrowed for the Service of England and Ireland, without Prejudice to the said Security, with Interest for the same, payable every Six Months; which said Ten Thousand Pounds shall be paid unto Mr. Greenhill, Mr. Pocock, and the rest of the Treasurers for maimed Soldiers sitting at Christ's Church; and an Acquittance under the Hands of the said Treasurers shall be a sufficient Discharge to the Treasurers at Gouldsmiths Hall, for the Payment of the said Ten Thousand Pounds, with Interest every Six Months; which said Monies is to be issued out to such Person and Persons, by the said Treasurers for maimed Soldiers, as shall be ordered and appointed by the Committee where Mr. John Goodwin hath the Chair, and in such Proportions as shall be appointed by that Committee."

Letter to Sir T. Fairfax, to settle the Distractions of the Army, for which Purpose Committees will be sent to Him at Newmarket.

"SIR,

"The Houses have received your Letters, and those Papers from the Council of War. They have taken into their Consideration to do that which may best conduce to the Public Peace; and have already passed divers Votes in order thereunto, and are going on to the rest, which they are confident will give a full Satisfaction to all good Men, and will leave no Scruple in any, of the candid and honourable Intentions of the Parliament towards their Army. These Resolutions cannot be ready to be with you before Wednesday next, at which Time they will send them to you; and a Committee of both Houses, to advise with you how to improve these Votes, for the settling of the present Distempers, and to give you their best Assistance in communicating them to the Army: And, that it may be done in a more public and satisfactory Way, they desire you to appoint (fn. *) a general Rendezvous, on Wednesday next, upon New Markett Heath; desiring and expecting that you and your Officers will, in the mean Time, so order it, that the Army shall neither remove nor act any Thing to the Disturbance of the Public Peace. This being all we have now in Command, we rest

"Your, &c."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 3a post Meridiem.

Post Meridiem.

Prayers, by Mr. Delmy.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Rutland.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Pembrooke.
L. Viscount Hereford.
Comes Midd.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. Bruce.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. De Lawarr.
Ds. Grey.

Message from the King.

The Message of the King, delivered this Morning by the Lord Dumfermlinge by Word of Mouth, being put into Writing, was read. (Here enter it.)

Committee for Trade.

Ordered, That the Quorum of the Committee concerning Trade is reduced to any Three.

Bentley's Petition.

Upon reading the Petition of Marten Bentley: It is Ordered, To be referred to Doctor Aylett, to examine the Business, and certify the same to this House, unless Cause be shewed to the contrary.

Order to repeal the Ordinance about Cheshire.

The Order concerning the County of Chester, was reported from the Committee, as fit to pass as it is; which was read the Third Time, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

Message from the H. C. with Ordinances and Orders.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Lewis Knight, &c.; who brought up several Ordinances, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence:

1. An Order for repealing the Declaration of the 30th March last.

2. An Order for Two Hundred Pounds to be paid to Sir Rob't Pye. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

3. An Order for Two Hundred Pounds, for Colonel Greives and his Troopers, and for Quartering of them. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Order for One Hundred Pounds, for Lieutenant Colonel Jackson and his Men, and for Quartering of them. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

5. An Order for quartering Sir Rob't Pye's Troop. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

Ordinance to repeal the Declaration of Dislike to the Army Petition.

The Ordinance for repealing the Declaration of the 30th of March last, was read Thrice.

The Question being put, "Whether to agree with the House of Commons in this Ordinance?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

The Answer returned was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, to the Declaration concerning the repealing of the Declaration of the 30th of March last: To all the rest of the Particulars now brought up, they do agree to.

King's Letter in Answer to the Propositions.

Next, the House commanded the King's Message from Holdenby, of the 12th of May last, to be read all.

And then it was Ordered to be read in Parts, and compared with the Propositions of Peace: For the doing whereof, the House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure.

The House was resumed.

It was moved, "That this Question might be put, Whether this House will adhere to the First Proposition, or not?"

And it was put to the Question, "Whether this Question shall be now put?"

And it was Resolved in the Negative.

Message from the H. C. with an Ordinance;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Swinfild; who brought up an additional Ordinance for the more full Indemnity of Officers and Soldiers, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence.

and that they have put off Private Causes.

2. They think fit to let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons have put off all Private Business for Ten Days.

Additional Ordinance, for Indemnity of Officers, &c.

The additional Ordinance was read Twice, and committed to these Lords following:

Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Suffolke.
L. Hunsdon.
L. Maynard.
L. Wharton.

Any Three, to meet on Monday Morning next.

The Answer returned was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House will send an Answer, by Messengers of their own, to this Message.

Answer from thence.

Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page return with this Answer:

That they will give a Meeting, as is desired, with the Scotts Commissioners; to the Order concerning Sir Thomas Hampson's Composition, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from thence, to sit To morrow, P. M.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Gherrard, &c.

To let their Lordships know, that the House of Commons intends to sit To-morrow in the Afternoon; and they desire their Lordships would please to sit likewise, if it may stand with their Lordships Conveniency.

Ordered, That this House shall sit To-morrow in the Afternoon, at Four of the Clock.

Message from the King, that He left Holdenby unwillingly, &c.

"My Lords,

"I am sent, by His Majesty, to the Honourable Houses of Parliament; being commanded to impart Three Things unto them:

"1. First, That His Majesty goeth from Holdenby unwillingly.

"2. His Majesty desires that the Parliament will neglect no Means for preserving the Honour of the Parliament, and the established Laws of the Land.

"3. His Majesty desires that they will believe nothing that is said or done in His Name against the Parliament, until they send to Himself, and know the Truth of it."

Order for repealing the Ordinance concerning Chester.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Ordinance made and passed by both Houses, in September, 1644, on Behalf of the Inhabitants of the County Palatine of Chester, in respect of then Obstructions of Justice there, be from this Day, to all Intents and Purposes, in all the Clauses thereof, fully revoked, avoided, and made null; excepting those Clauses that appoint Henry Brooke Esquire to be Sheriff of the County Palatine of Chester, who is to continue Sheriff of the said County of Chester, notwithstanding any Clause or Thing in this Ordinance, for the Time limited in the said former Ordinance."

Committee to confer with Sir Robert Pye, about quartering his Troop.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That it be referred to the Committee of the Affairs of Ireland at Darby House, and the Knights of the Shire for Midd. to confer and consult with Sir Robert Pye, concerning the quartering of his Troop; and to give Order for their Quarter in Places convenient, and most for the Ease of the Country."

Order for 200l. for Colonel Greaves and his Officers, &c.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland at Derby House do give Warrant to Alderman Bunce, and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, to pay the Sum of Two Hundred Pounds to Sir John Wollaston and the rest of the Treasurers at Wars, to be issued, by order of the said Committee, to Colonel Grevis, for the Service of him, his Officers and Troopers, for their present Support, and Discharge of Quarters; and that it be referred to the said Committee, to consult with the Knights of the Shire and Gentlemen of Midd. and Surrey, and, conferring with Colonel Grevis, to give Order for quartering his Officers and Troopers in Places convenient, and most for the Ease of the Country."

Order for 100l. for Lieut. Col. Jackson and his Officers, &c.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland at Derby House shall have Power to give Order to Alderman Bunce and the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, to pay unto Sir John Wollaston and the rest of the Treasurers at Wars the Sum of One Hundred Pounds, to be disposed of, by Order of the said Committee, for the present Service of Lieutenant Colonel Jackson and other Officers, and about Fourscore Soldiers that are come off from the Army, to be entertained in the Service of Ireland, and for the Discharge of their Quarter; and that it be referred to the same Committee, conferring with the Gentlemen of Midd. and the said Officers, to appoint their Quarters in such convenient Places as may be most for the Ease of the Country."

Order for 200l. for Sir Robert Pye and his Officers, &c.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland at Derby House do give Warrant to Alderman Bunce and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, to pay the Sum of Two Hundred Pounds to Sir John Wollaston and the rest of the Treasurers at Wars, to be issued, by Order of the said Committee, to Sir Robert Pye, for the Service of him, his Officers and Troop, for their present Support, and Discharge of Quarters."

Footnotes

* Origin. was.
* Origin. desire.
* Origin, to disposed.
* Deest in Originali.