House of Lords Journal Volume 9
2 July 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 2 July 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 309-312. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37075 Date accessed: 23 August 2014.


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Contents

DIE Veneris, 2 die Julii.
Answer from the H. C. Ogle bailed. Message from the H. C. with a Vote for the King not to be brought nearer London than the Army is. Protest against it. Answer. Persons Names to be returned, who obstruct the Reformation of the University at Cambridge. Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the Army. Sir J. and Ly. Thynn. Sir E. Hawley, a Pass. Propositions for Peace. Vote for the King to come no nearer London than the Army. Message to the H. C. for Col. Sheffield to carry Horse and Dragoons to Ireland. Petition from the City. Answer to it. P. Elector, Leave to go to the King. Order for 100 l. to Husbands, for printing Parliamentary Papers. Petition from the City, that Officers and Soldiers may not come within the Lines, but to settle their Accompts;—that the Public Money may be accompted for, Defaulters punished; and the Receipts of it new regulated;—to provide Laws for settling the Government;—to consider of Relief for Ireland;—to preserve a good Correspondence with the Scots;—for the Settlement of Religion;—and for an Act of Oblivion. Letter to the Commissioners with the King; with the following Letter to Sir T. Fairfax, to see the Votes for removing the King to Holdenby put in Execution. Letter from the Commissioners with the Army, concerning the Treaty with Sir T. Fairfax, &c. Letter from them to him about it. Sir T. Fairfax's Commission, for Officers to treat with the Commissioners about the Propositions from the Army. Vindication of the Army, from a Charge aginst them in a Pamphlet, &c. Letter from the P. Elector, desiring Leave to go to the King. Footnotes

DIE Veneris, 2 die Julii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Ash.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Stamford.
Comes Denbigh.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Suffolke.
Comes Lyncolne.
Ds. North.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. La Warr.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Dacres.

Answer from the H. C.

Doctor Heath and Mr. Sadler return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Vote and the Letters to be sent to the General and the Commissioners with the King: (Here enter them.) To the rest, they will return an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Ogle bailed.

This Day the House accepted of Wm. Witherington, of Broome, in the County of Durham, Gent. and Wm. Stevens, of Drury Lane, Midd. Cutler, to be Bail for Colonel Thomas Ogle.

And it is Ordered, That the Gentleman Usher shall take Bail of the said Colonel Thomas Ogle, in the Sum of Five Hundred Pounds, and One Hundred Pounds apiece his Sureties, to appear before the Lords in Parliament within Ten Days after Notice given him.

Message from the H. C. with a Vote for the King not to be brought nearer London than the Army is.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Pye Knight, &c.

To desire Concurrence in a Vote, "That the King shall not be brought nearer to London than the Quarters of the Army shall be."

The Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Vote now brought up?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Protest against it.

These Lords following, before the putting the aforesaid Question, desired Leave to enter their Dissents, if this Question be carried in the Affirmative: Which being granted, they entered their Dissents, by subscribing their Names.

"Rutland. Suffolke.

Stanfurd."

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees in the Vote now brought up.

Persons Names to be returned, who obstruct the Reformation of the University at Cambridge.

The House being made acquainted, "That there are some Persons in the University of Cambridge, that do obstruct the Reformation in that University:"

Hereupon it is Ordered, That the Vice Chancellor and the Heads of the Colleges do send the Names of such Persons to this House; and that a Letter be sent from both Houses to this Purpose.

Letter, &c. from the Commissioners with the Army.

The Letter, with the Papers inclosed, from the Earl of Nottingham, was read; and the Vindication of the Army.

Ordered, To be printed and published.

(Here enter it.)

Sir J. and Ly. Thynn.

Ordered, That the Lady Thynn shall put in her Answer to the Petition of Sir James Thynne, on Tuesday next; else this House will give an Injunction, and proceed in the Business.

Sir E. Hawley, a Pass.

Ordered, That Sir Edward Hawley shall have a Pass, to go into France, with Three Servants, and Accommodations fit for Travel.

Propositions for Peace.

The House was adjourned into a Committee of the whole House during Pleasure, to debate the Propositions to be sent to the King, for a safe and well-grounded Peace.

The House was resumed.

It is Ordered, That the Propositions shall be the First Business To-morrow Morning, and in Particular the Proviso brought from the House of Commons.

Vote for the King to come no nearer London than the Army.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That, during the Time that the Houses shall think fit to keep up the Army, no Place shall be appointed for His Majesty's Residence nearer to London than they will allow the Quarters of the Army to be."

Message to the H. C. for Col. Sheffield to carry Horse and Dragoons to Ireland.

Ordered, That Colonel Thomas Sheffield shall (fn. *) have Liberty to carry such Dragoons and Horse into Ireland, as came from the Army, as he can prevail to go with him; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein.

To this Purpose, a Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Heath and Mr. Sadler.

Petition from the City.

This Day a Petition was presented, by divers Aldermen and others, from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council, of the City of London; which was received, and read publicly. (Here enter it.)

The Persons presenting it withdrew.

And they being called in again, had this Answer (fn. *) de livered to them:

Answer to it.

"That their Lordships have had a long Experience of the good Affections of the City of London to the Parliament and Kingdom; and they return their Acknowledgement for the same: As to the Particulars in the Petition, which are many and long, they will take them into their speedy Consideration."

P. Elector, Leave to go to the King.

Upon reading of a Letter from the Prince Elector, desiring Leave to go to the King: It is Ordered, That the Earl of Denbigh be desired to acquaint his Electoral Highness, from this House, that their Lordships give him Leave, as he desires.

Order for 100 l. to Husbands, for printing Parliamentary Papers.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Commissioners of the Excise do forthwith pay unto Edward Husbands Stationer (who hath printed many Matters, to his great Charge, upon Order, and for the immediate Service, of the Parliament) the Sum of One Hundred Pounds, and put it upon the Accompt of Charges; and that the said Sum of One Hundred Pounds be allowed to the said Commissioners, upon passing their said Accompts; and that the Acquittance of the said Edward Husbands shall be a sufficient Discharge to the said Commissioners, upon passing their Accompt, for the Payment of the said Hundred Pounds accordingly."

Petition from the City, that Officers and Soldiers may not come within the Lines, but to settle their Accompts;—that the Public Money may be accompted for, Defaulters punished; and the Receipts of it new regulated;—to provide Laws for settling the Government;—to consider of Relief for Ireland;—to preserve a good Correspondence with the Scots;—for the Settlement of Religion;—and for an Act of Oblivion.

"To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled in High Court of Parliament.

"The humble Petition of the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons, of the City of London, in Common Council assembled,

"Sheweth,

"That the Petitioners cannot but call to Mind the Deliverance which they [ (fn. †) and the whole] Kingdom do justly expect from this Parliament, after so many Years suffering under the Power of an arbitrary Government, both in their Spiritual and Temporal Concernments; and they do humbly acknowledge, that the Parliament hath removed many Obstacles; and are confident would, by this Time, with God's Blessing, have restored the Kingdom to its just Liberties, and settled a sure Foundation for its future Happiness, if they had not been diverted by the great Contrivers of the Kingdom's Slavery, who, rather than submit to the Justice of this High Court, have raised, maintained, and continued, a bloody, unnatural, and long War against the Parliament of England; in the Suppression whereof, as much Blood hath been spilt, so a great Treasure hath been spent, and the Kingdom is still left involved in many Engagements and Debts, both to their Brethren of Scotland (who, like true Christian Brethren, came in to its Aid against the Common Enemy), and also to a Multitude of Officers, Soldiers, and other the Wellaffected People of this Land, who did engage in the Defence and Support thereof: And although the Petitioners, in the Obligation which the Cause of God and the Public Safety did cast upon them, have all this Time both freely contributed, and chearfully submitted, to many great and unusual Assessments, which also could not be levied but in an extraordinary Way; yet they cannot be unsensible how much arbitrary Power hath been during their Distempers exercised, by Committees and others, by whom the good Subject hath been oftentimes more oppressed than the Delinquents suppressed, and who have managed their Receipts and Revenues, which were designed to maintain the Public Charge, so disorderly and ineffectually, that the Kingdom cannot but be unsatisfied concerning the due Employment thereof, and doubt that much of the Public Money hath been employed to Private Ends, and remains obscured in the Hands of such as were intrusted with the Collection of those Assessments, and the Improvement of all Sequestrations to the public and best Advantage. And indeed the Petitioners have Reason to attribute much of the late Discontents and Disorders of divers Officers and Soldiers unto the Want of such Monies as, if duly collected and faithfully managed, might have in good Part, if not fully, satisfied the Soldiery; and do humbly conceive, that the Parliament hath so much the more Reason to enquire into the same, because from this Defect hath risen those late Attempts of some of the Soldiery; and there is such Use made of the Vote passed by the Parliament for their Satisfaction, to invite and draw together very great Numbers of Officers and Soldiers from all Parts of the Kingdom, under Pretence of sharing the Money so obtained, that it may very much endanger the Peace and Safety of the City.

"The Petitioners, therefore, for Remedy of the said Grievances, and Prevention of those Dangers which otherwise may be feared, and for Settlement of this miserable and distracted Kingdom, do humbly pray,

"1. That present Command be given, that no Officer of War, or Soldier, other than such as are already come in, do enter the Line of Communication, under any Pretence to share in the Monies lately appointed by Parliament towards the Satisfaction of any Arrears.

"2. That such Officers and Soldiers who are already paid, according to the late several Ordinances of Parliament in this Behalf made, if their usual Habitation and Employment have been within the Line, be enjoined forthwith to betake themselves to their Callings, or some honest Condition of Living, and be prohibited from their loose and tumultuous Wanderings and Meetings within this City, and other Places adjacent, under Penalty of losing their Arrears; and that such Officers and Soldiers as have Dwellings or other Relations in the Country be required to depart the Line within Two Days after Publication, and to return to their Houses or Habitations, and there to apply themselves to their several Callings, upon the like Forfeiture of their Arrears (except such whose present and lawful Occasions may require their Continuance, to be approved of by a Committee for that Purpose to be appointed); and that the Parliament would please to make some speedy and certain Provision, for the satisfying of all Arrears unto the Soldiery who have served the Parliament, within some short and convenient Time; to be paid in the several Counties and Places of their Abode, according to the Conditions of their Entertainment.

"3. That all Officers and Soldiers, who have been in Arms against the Parliament, or others who have assisted or contributed thereunto, be enjoined, upon Pain of Imprisonment, within Twenty-four Hours after Publication, to repair to their several Habitations, and fall to their lawful Callings; and that such Officers, Soldiers, and others, as have no Habitations nearer, be commanded forthwith to withdraw themselves, and to continue at least Twenty Miles from London, for the Space of Forty Days, except such as by a Committee authorized and appointed to that Purpose shall have Licence, upon just Cause by them allowed, to remain in or nearer London so long Time until they have dispatched such Business as they shall have in or near the City; which ended, then presently to retire Twenty Miles from the City, upon Pain of Imprisonment as aforesaid.

"4. That all such Commanders and Soldiers as, according to former Orders of Parliament, have come in from the Army, having received their Monies, may be otherwise disposed of, as the Parliament shall think fit.

"5. That all Persons whatsoever, that are possessed of any Monies or Goods belonging to the Public, may be enjoined to bring the same, within One Month after Publication, in to such Public Treasury as is or shall be appointed for that Purpose, under Penalty to forfeit Treble the Value which shall be duly proved to be concealed; the Half of the Forfeiture to be given to such Person as shall make Proof of such Concealment, and the other Half to be applied to the Service of the State.

"6. That all Revenues, as well such as are due by Sequestration or otherwise, be managed under such Commissions, and by such Persons, as, notwithstanding any Privilege of Parliament or otherwise, may be held to such Rules as are or shall be prescribed therein by Ordinance of Parliament, and be liable for Breach thereof to answer the same in due Course of Law; and that no arbitrary Power may be exercised to the contrary, by any Person whatsoever.

"7. That the Parliament would for present please to lay aside all Business of lesser Consequence or private Concernment; and improve their Time and utmost Endeavour, that such Laws may be prepared for His Majesty's Royal Concurrence, as may settle the Government of the Church, secure the People from all unlawful arbitrary Power whatsoever in the future, and restore His Majesty to His just Rights and Authority, according to the Covenant; without all which, the Petitioners can never expect any lasting Establishment; that so this long-divided and distracted Kingdom may attain to the Blessings of Peace and Unity in Church and Commonwealth.

"8. And, that the People may be the better secured to enjoy the intended Effect of such Laws as shall be so made with the Royal Assent, that especial Care be taken that all Officers of State and other Ministers of Justice may be Persons of Honour, of considerable Interest, and of known Integrity to the Parliament (fn. *) and Kingdom.

"9. That the Parliament would please to provide for the carrying on of the Affairs in Ireland, by speedy transporting the Forces which lie ready on the Sea Side, and such others as shall be willing to engage in that Service; and, by such continual Supplies as are requisite, to reduce that Kingdom to the Obedience of the Crown of England, and rescue the good Party left there out of the bloody Hands of those barbarous Rebels; and, for the better Encouragement of the Subjects of this Kingdom to continue their Supplies for that Service, that, with as much Speed as conveniently may be, the Parliament will please to take Care that the People be eased of such extraordinary Charges and Burthens as have long lain and still remain upon this Kingdom.

"10. That, by all just and good Means, the Correspondence with our Brethren of Scotland may, according to the National Covenant, be maintained and preserved.

"11. That some speedy Course may be taken, for the deciding of all Causes formerly determinable in the Court of Admiralty; the Trade and Navigation of this Kingdom, and the Correspondence with Foreign Nations, being very much prejudiced, disturbed, and endangered, for Want of due Provision herein, as hath formerly been at large represented unto the Honourable House of Commons.

"12. And lastly, that, Satisfaction being made by Delinquents according to the Wisdom of Parliament, an Act of Oblivion may be passed, for an utter Abolition and final Reconcilement of all Parties and Differences; and for the quiet Settling of Peace, Love, and Unity, among the Subjects of this Kingdom.

"All which the Petitioners submit unto the Wisdom of this Honourable House.

"Michell."

Letter to the Commissioners with the King; with the following

"My Lords and Gentlemen,

"We are commanded, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, to send you this inclosed Vote; and to desire you to observe your former Instructions. We send you here inclosed the Letter and Vote they have sent to Sir Thomas Fairefax."

Letter to Sir T. Fairfax, to see the Votes for removing the King to Holdenby put in Execution.

"SIR,

"We are commanded, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, to send you this inclosed Vote, and to desire you to see it punctually observed. This is all we have in Command, as

"Your."

"Resolved, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament,

"That a Letter shall be sent to Sir Thomas Fairefax, to see the Two Votes of the 28th and 29th of June last put in Execution; and to give Order to the Guards now with the King, to observe all Directions they shall receive from the Committee of Parliament.

"Resolved, &c.

"To write to the Commissioners, to put in Execution the Votes of the 28th and 29th of June last."

Letter from the Commissioners with the Army, concerning the Treaty with Sir T. Fairfax, &c.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers. These.

"Haste, Haste, Haste.

"May it please your Lordship,

"Upon Consideration had of the General's Paper which we sent you this Morning, we have this Day made a farther Address to the General, desiring him to make known unto us the Persons who should treat with us upon the Papers and Desires sent from the Army to the Houses, and the Votes sent to us, and Time and Place of Meeting; a Copy of which Letter of ours to the General I send you inclosed: In Answer to which, the General (fn. *) sent unto us this Evening, by Colonel Fleetwood, a Commission under his Hand and Seal, for certain of his Officers to treat with us (beginning in the Morning at our Lodging by Eight of the Clock), a Copy whereof I also send you. Of our Proceeding therein your Lordships shall receive frequent Account. We have likewise this Day received from the General a Vindication of the Army from a printed Pamphlet, published to the Scandal and Prejudice of the Army, a Copy whereof you shall receive inclosed, from,

Wickham, 1 Julii, 1647, 11 at Night.

"My Lord,
Your Lordship's
Humble Servant,
C. Nottingham."

Letter from them to him about it.

"May it please your Excellency,

"We have considered your Letter to us, dated Yesterday, in which we perceive your Excellency is ready to appoint Officers to treat with us upon the Papers and Desires sent from the Army to the Houses, and the Votes sent to us; and therefore we do again desire, that the Persons, Time, and Place, may be made known to us; the principal of our last Propositions being (to our Apprehensions) already fully answered; and the rest are under Con sideration, which we hope this Day will be perfected.

1 July, 1647.

"Sir,
Your humble Servants,
C. Nottingham.
P. Wharton.
Ph. Skippon.
H. Vane.
Thomas Widdrington.
Ro. Scawen.
Tho. Povey."

"To his Excellency Sir Thomas Fairefax Knight, General of all the Parliament's Forces.

"Copia vera, exam.
per Geo. Pyke."

Sir T. Fairfax's Commission, for Officers to treat with the Commissioners about the Propositions from the Army.

"I do hereby appoint Lieutenant General Cromwell, Commissary General Ireton, Colonel Fleetwood, Colonel Rainborowe, and Colonel Harrison, Colonel Sir Hardresse Wallex, Colonel Rich, Colonel Lambert, Colonel Hamond, and Major Disborowe, these Ten, or any Five of them (of which the major Part to be of the Five last), to treat and debate with the Right Honourable the Commissioners of Parliament residing with the Army, upon the Papers and Desires sent from the Army to both Houses, and the Votes sent to the Army, according to the Effect of the Order of both Houses, dated the 26th of June, 1647; and, for that Purpose, to attend the said Commissioners at their Lodging, at The Katherine Wheele, To-morrow Morning, by Eight of the Clock; and so from Time to Time, and Place to Place, as shall be mutually agreed on.

"Given under my Hand and Seal, at Wickham, the First Day of July, 1647.

"Copia vera, exam. per Geo. Pyke."

Vindication of the Army, from a Charge aginst them in a Pamphlet, &c.

"Whereas we find a Pamphlet lately printed and published, bearing the Title of "Heads presented by the Army to the King's Majesty, on Saterday June the 19th, 1647;" though we think it will of itself appear such a confused headless Piece, so surreptitiously crept forth, and in such a pure Pamphletdress (as we hope it will gain little Belief to our Prejudice); yet, to avoid any Jealousies or doubtful Thoughts which it might possibly breed in any honest Mind, we cannot but take Notice of it; and, for the Vindication of the Army, do hereby declare, That the said printed Pamphlet is most false, scandalous, and injurious, to us and this Army; neither hath there been any such Paper presented to His Majesty by or from this Army: And the same we prosess and declare, with great Detestation, concerning another written Paper, whereof we had a Copy shewed to us Yesterday by the Commissioners of the City, intituled, "Articles agreed uppon betweene the King and the Army, the 16th of June." And we desire all that wish well to this Army, or the King, or Parliament, or Peace of this Kingdom, that they would do their best to find out and discover the Authors and Publisher of the said Paper and Pamphlet, or any else of that Nature that may be divulged concerning the Army, to interrupt or prejudice the present Settling and Composure of Affairs. And we hope it will not be further needful or expected from us, that we should give particular Answer to every such scandalous Paper which the Malice of our Enemies may forge against us; but what we have published to the World in our Representation, and other Papers avowed by us, may serve to clear our Intentions, until we shall appear to act something to the contrary.

"By the Appointment of his Excellency Sir Tho. Fairfax, and his Council of War.

Wickham, July 1, 1647.

"Signed,
John Rushworth."

Letter from the P. Elector, desiring Leave to go to the King.

"My Lord,

"The unhappy Differences between the King and Parliament being in a hopeful Way of Composure, and His Majesty for the present near these Parts; it is looked upon as what may well become my Duty, in the near Relation I have to Him, to make a Journey to kiss His Hands: Yet, out of my Respects (which are unalterable) to this House, I thought fit to forbear it, until I know whether they will approve of it. I do therefore desire your Lordship to acquaint them herewith, that, in case it stand with their Liking, I may send also to know His Majesty's Pleasure therein. Thus I rest

July 2d, 1647.

"Your Lordship's
Most affectionate Friend to serve you,
Charles Lodovic."

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. deliver.
Origin. whole and the.
* Deest in Originali.
* Origin. send.