House of Lords Journal Volume 9
9 July 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 9 July 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 321-324. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37080 Date accessed: 30 September 2014.


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DIE Veneris, 9 die Julii.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Seaman.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Warwicke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Lyncolne.
Comes Stamford.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. North.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Willoughby.
Ds. Dacres.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Hunsdon.
Ds. La Warr.

Answer from the H. C.

Dr. Heath and Mr. Hakewill return with this Answer:

That they agree to the Letter to the Commissioners with the King.

Bushel to be freed from his Delinquency, on delivering the Isle of Lundy to Ld. Say & Seale:

The Earl of Manchester reported a Paper from the Committee at Derby House; which was read, as followeth:

"Ordered, That it be reported to both Houses, That, upon the Delivery up of the Isle of Lundy to the Lord Viscount Say & Seale, or his Assigns, by Mr. Thomas Bushell, his Delinquency may be taken off, and all Sequestration in respect thereof, and he restored to such Right as he or his Assigns had in the Mines in Devonshire, Wales, or Cornwall, before these Wars; and that the Men that were with him in the Island, being not Men of Estate or Quality, be pardoned and freed from Delinquency and Sequestration, according to an Order agreed upon, and the Undertaking of this Committee; where he is now ready to submit, and to yield up the Island upon the Terms offered by this Committee."

Ordered, That this House approves of this Report; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein.

Message to the H. C. about it;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Heath and Mr. Hakewill:

1. To deliver to them the Report concerning Mr. Thomas Bushell to surrender up the Isle of Lundy, and to desire their Concurrence therein.

and for De Bevoyer to continue Bailiff of Guernsey.

2. To desire their Concurrence, that Peeter De Bevoyer De Granges be Bailiff of the Isle of Guernsey, where he hath been employed for the Service of the Parliament for the Space of Two Years last past; and to continue during the Pleasure of both Houses.

Treaty with the Queen of Sweden:

The Earl of Manchester reported, from the Committee at Derby House, an Abstract of the Letters which came from the Queen of Sweeden; which were read.

(Here enter the Abstract.)

And it is Ordered, That the Treaty with the Swedish Commissioner be referred to the Committee of both Kingdoms at Derby House; and that it be referred to the Committee for Foreign Affairs, to prepare a Letter, for the stating the Matter of Fact (fn. *) between the Swedish Ships and the English; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein.

Message to the H. C. about it.

And accordingly this was sent down, by Dr. Heath and Mr. Hakewill.

Papers concerning the Treaty with the Army.

Next, the House caused the Papers which came from the Commissioners with the Army to be read again.

And it was moved, "That the Protestation and the Covenant might be now read."

And the Question being put, "Whether the Protestation and the Covenant shall be now read?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Message from the H. C. with Ordinances, and to expedite One.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Wheeler; who brought up divers Particulars, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence:

1. An Ordinance for Delinquents and Malignants to depart out of the Lines of Communication.

2. An Ordinance for Officers and Soldiers to depart out of the Lines of Communication.

3. An Ordinance for issuing out Twenty Thousand Pounds for the Army. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to, upon the Question.

4. To give Expedition to an Order formerly brought up, for giving Power to the Commissioners of the Army to gather the Arrears.

Ordinance for Delinquents, &c. to go without the Lines:

The Ordinance for Delinquents and Malignants to depart out of the Lines of Communication, was read Thrice.

And the Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Ordinance, as it now came up from the House of Commons?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

(Here enter it.)

Ordered, That this Ordinance be forthwith printed and published.

Protest against it.

Memorandum, That these Lords following, before the putting the aforesaid Question, desired Leave to enter their Dissents, if this Question was carried in the Affirmative: Which being granted, they do accordingly enter their Dissents, by subscribing their Names.

"T. Lyncolne.
Suffolke.
Middlesex.
F. Willughbye.
Du North.
Hunsdon."

Ordinance for Officers and Soldiers to depart the Lines:

Next, the Ordinance was read Twice, for Officers and Soldiers to depart out of the Lines of Communication.

And, after a Debate, a Proviso was offered, and read.

Then the said Ordinance was read the Third Time with the Proviso.

And the Question being put, "Whether to agree to this Ordinance, with the Addition of this Proviso?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

(Here enter it.)

Protest against it.

Memorandum, That these Lords following, before the putting the aforesaid (fn. *) Question, desired Leave to enter their Dissents, if the Question were carried in the Affirmative: Which being granted, they do accordingly enter their Dissents, by subscribing their Names.

"T. Lyncolne.
Stanfurd.
Middlesex.
Suffolke.
F. Willughbye.
Du. North.
Hunsdon."

The Answer returned to the Messengers was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House agrees to the Ordinance for the Twenty Thousand Pounds for the Army, and to the Ordinance for sending Delinquents and Malignants out of Town: To all the rest, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax.

A Letter from Sir Thomas Fairefax, was read. (Here enter it.)

Letter from the King to the D. of York.

A Letter was inclosed, from the King, to the Duke of Yorke; which was delivered, by the Direction of the House, to the Earl of Northumb. to be delivered to the Duke of Yorke.

Message to the H. C. with the Ordinance for Officers to go without the Lines;

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Heath and Mr. Hakewill:

To deliver to them the Ordinance concerning the Officers to go out of the Lines of Communication, with the Proviso, and to desire their Concurrence therein.

and to remind them of the One to dissolve County Committees.

2. To put them in Mind of the Ordinance for putting down all Country Committees.

Ordered, That the Countess of Derby shall have Leave to reside at her House at Chelsey.

"An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, for Soldiers to depart from the Cities of London and Westm'r, by the 15th of this Instant July, 1647.

Ordinance for Officers and Soldiers to depart the Lines of Communication.

"Whereas there hath been of late an extraordinary Confluence and Resort of Officers, Soldiers, and other Persons pretending themselves to have been Soldiers of Reduced or Disbanded Forces, from several Parts of the Kingdom, to the Cities of London and Westm'r, some of which have assembled themselves in tumultuous Manner in several Parts of the City of London, and near the Houses of Parliament, to the Disturbance of the said Houses in the great Affairs they have in Hand: For Remedy whereof, and as One Means by the Blessing of God to prevent the Increase and Spreading of the Plague in the said Cities, and other Inconveniences, be it therefore Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That all such Officers and Soldiers, or other Persons aforesaid, shall, by the 15th Day of this Instant July, 1647, depart from the said Cities of London and Westm'r, and Lines of Communication, not having had their usual Habitations within the said Cities of London or Westm'r, or within the Lines of Communication aforesaid, nor having any just and necessary Occasion for their Abode and Continuance there, to be allowed by the Committee of the Militia of the City of London, or any Four of them, under their Hands; and that the Persons aforesaid shall not return to the said Cities of London or Westm'r, or within the said Line of Communication, within the Space of Two Months next after the Publication of this present Ordinance, upon Pain of Three Months Imprisonment, and Loss of their Arrears: And it is further Ordained, That the said Committee of the Militia are hereby authorized and required to see this present Ordinance to be effectually put in Execution: And it is likewise Ordained, That, after the said 15th Day of July aforesaid, the said Committee, or any Four of them, shall have hereby Power and Authority, and are hereby required, to imprison the said Persons, according to the Tenor of this Ordinance, that shall offend against the same: And the said Lords and Commons do Declare, That it is not their Intention to deprive any Officer or Soldier of their just Dues, owing unto any such Officer or Soldier from the Parliament; but that, their Accompts being audited as is directed by several Ordinances of Parliament, and so soon as the pressing Affairs of the Kingdom will permit, the said Lords and Commons will take Order to give just Satisfaction to them, or to any other Person or Persons unto whom they shall assign their Arrears, or any Part thereof.

"Provided, That this shall not extend to the Officers or Soldiers of the Trained Bands, or Auxiliaries within the said Lines of Communication, or to any Colonel or Officer of Estate or Quality, which shall have Occasion to stay in Town, or to such as are lately come from the Army, and shall manifest the same to both Houses, or to the Speakers of both Houses; and shall have Allowance thereof accordingly, under the Hands of the said Speakers."

Order for 20,000 l. for a Month's Pay for the Army under Sir T. Fairfax.

"Be it Ordained, and it is Ordained, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That James Bunce Alderman, Richard Glyd and Lawrence Bromfeild, Treasurers at Weavers Hall, appointed by Ordinance of Parliament for the raising and receiving of Two Hundred Thousand Pounds, for the Service of England and Ireland, shall and do forthwith pay, unto Sir John Wollaston Knight and the rest of the Treasurers at War, the Sum of Twenty Thousand Pounds, to be by them issued forth, by Warrant from the Committee for the Army, towards a Month's Pay hereby appointed for the Army under the present Command of Sir Thomas Fairefax; and that the Receipt or Acquittance of Sir John Wollaston Knight, together with any Two of the said Treasurers at War, shall be a sufficient Warrant and Discharge unto the said James Bunce, and the rest of the Treasurers at Weavers Hall, for the said Twenty Thousand Pounds.

"And it is further Ordained, That the Committee for the Army are hereby authorized to give Security to Sir John Wollaston Knight, and the rest of the Treasurers at War, for such Part of this Month's Pay as shall appear to the said Committee to be by them advanced; and Power to reimburse themselves the said Monies, with Interest (so long as they shall forbear the same), out of such Sum or Sums of Money as shall be paid in to their Treasury for the Public Service."

Ordinance for Delinquents and Malignants to depart the Lines of Communication.

"Whereas, by an Ordinance of Parliament, dated the 12th Day of December last past, for the Reasons therein expressed, it was ordered, That all Papists whatsoever, and all Officers and Soldiers of Fortune, and other Persons that have borne Arms against the Parliament of England, or have adhered to or assisted the Enemy in this late War, not being under Restraint, should, before the 18th Day of the said December last past, depart out of the Cities of London and Westm'r, and Lines of Communication, at least Twenty Miles distant from the said Lines; and if any such Person should continue within the said Lines, or the said Distance of Twenty Miles from the said Lines, after that Time, such Person should be apprehended, imprisoned, and proceeded against as a Traitor; and that all such Persons should forbear, upon the Penalty aforesaid, to return, or come within the said Lines, or the said Distance of Twenty Miles, without Licence under the Hands of the Committee appointed for Compositions at Gouldsmiths Hall, as in and by the said Ordinance, by and under certain Provisions and Limitations therein expressed, may appear: The Lords and Commons now assembled in Parliament, taking Notice that great Numbers of such Persons have, notwithstanding the said Ordinance, continued within the said Cities and Lines of Communication, and the said Distance of Twenty Miles, and many more have returned and resorted thither, whereby many Inconveniences and Disturbances may ensue, if not timely prevented, do think fit to Order and Ordain, and it is hereby Ordered and Ordained, That the said Ordinance, and all and every Clause, Article, and Thing, therein contained, shall be revived, and be in full Force, from the 14th Day of this present July, until the 14th Day of October next, to all Intents and Purposes whatsoever; and all Person and Persons whatsoever, mentioned or concerned in the said recited Ordinance, are to take Notice hereof, and to conform thereunto respectively: Provided, That nothing in this Ordinance shall extend to such Persons as aforesaid, who, having their Habitations within the Lines of Communication, or within the said Space of Twenty Miles, have made their Compositions, and paid in or secured their Monies, or have taken the Negative Oath and Covenant."

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax, for the King to see His Children;—exculpating the Army from any Intention of treating separately with Him;—and about the D. of Richmond and His Chaplains having had Access to Him.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"I was sent unto by the King, on Friday last, to desire the Parliament to give Way to Him to see His Children, and that they might for that Purpose be sent to Him. If I may be so bold to offer my Opinion, I think the Allowance of such a Thing may be without the least Prejudice to the Kingdom, and yet gain more upon His Majesty than denying it. And if it be in the Prayer of every good Man, that His Heart may be gained, the Performance of such Civilities to Him is very suitable to those Desires, and will hear well with all Men, who (if they can imagine it to be their own Cafe) cannot but be sorry if His Majesty's natural Affections to His Children in so small a Thing should not be complied with. And if any Question should be concerning the Assurance of their Return, I shall engage for their Return within what Time the Parliament shall limit.

"Upon this Occasion (give me Leave, I beseech you) to take Notice of some Reports spread abroad, as if myself and the Officers of the Army were upon some under-hand Contract or Bargain with the King, and from thence Occasion is taken to slander our Integrities, and endeavour a Misunderstanding betwixt the Parliament and their Army; the Fidelity of which. to the Parliament and Kingdom, and their Affections to it, are the great Objects of many Mens Envy, because they see nothing so likely to settle Right and Freedom, with Truth and Peace, to us and Posterity, and to hinder their Designs against the same, as an Harmony or good Accord between the Parliament and Army, which is the Joy of good Men, and it shall be our Study to preserve against all Designs and Designers to the contrary.

"To prevent, therefore, all Misunderstandings of that Kind, I thought fit with all Clearness to declare unto you, That we have done nothing, nor shall do any Thing, which we desire to hide from you or the World, or shall not avow to the Faces of our greatest Adversaries.

"Our Desires concerning a just Consideration and Settlement of the King's Rights (His Majesty first giving His Concurrence to settle and secure the Rights and Liberties of the Kingdom) we have already publicly declared, in our Representation and Remonstrance: Since the First of those Papers sent to the Parliament, there have been several Officers of the Army, upon several Occasions, sent to His Majesty; the First, to present to Him a Copy of the Representation; and after that some others, to tender Him a Copy of the Remonstrance: Upon both which, the Officers sent were appointed to clear the Sense and Intention of any Thing in either Paper whereupon His Majesty might make any Question. Since then, there have been also some Officers at several Times sent to His Majesty about His Remove from Hatfeild, to dissuade Him (if possible) from Windsor, or any Place so near London, to some Place of further Distance, answerable to what we had desired of the Parliament. In all which Addresses to His Majesty, we care not who knows what hath been said (fn. *) or done; for, as we have nothing to bargain for, or to ask, either from His Majesty or the Parliament, for Advantage to ourselves, or any particular Party or Interest of our own; so, in all those Addresses to His Majesty, we have utterly disclaimed and disavowed any such Thing, or any Overtures or Thoughts tending that Way. But the only Intent and Effect of those our Addresses hath been, to desire and endeavour His Majesty's free Concurrence with the Parliament, for establishing and securing the common Rights and Liberties, and settling the Peace of the Kingdom; and to assure Him that (the Public being so provided for, with such His Majesty's Concurrence) it is fully agreeable to our Principles, and should be our Desire and Endeavour, that (with and in such Settling of the Public) the Rights of His Majesty His Royal Family should also be provided for; so as a lasting Peace and Agreement might be settled in this Nation; and that, as we had publicly declared for the same in general Terms, so (if Things come to a Way of Settlement) we should not be wanting (in our Spheres) to own that general Desire, in any Particulars of Natural or Civil Right to His Majesty's Person or Family, which might not prejudice, or again endanger, the Public; and in the mean Time, that His Majesty should find all Personal Civilities and Respects from us, with all reasonable Freedom, that might stand with Safety, and with the Trust or Charge lying upon us concerning His Person.

"You have here the utmost Sum of what hath passed from us to His Majesty; and we could with all Men did rightly understand (without Misrepresentation) every Particular, wherein (as we know nothing not agreeable to Reason, Justice, Honesty, or Conscience, so) we thought ourselves concerned the rather to say and do (fn. †) as we have towards His Majesty since He came within our Quarters, because of those common Prejudices suggested against us, as if we were utter Enemies to Monarchy and all Civil Order and Government: And for that Particular of the Duke of Richmond and the Two Chaplains lately permitted to attend His Majesty, it was not done without much Reluctancy, because therein we doubted we might be misunderstood by the Kingdom's best Friends. But, upon His Majesty's continuing Importunity for it, as a Thing very nearly concerning His inward and outward Contentment, and concerning these Persons, such as (we hoped) would not do ill Offices to prejudice the Peace of the Kingdom, we did give Way to it; and the Persons (before they came) had Notice of the Permission. And, as we then thought, so we still do think, that to allow Him some such Company of Persons (least dangerous) whom former Acquaintance may make Him take Pleasure in, and the Allowance of some such Chaplains of His own, are Things both reasonable and just; and the debarring of that Liberty in the latter (we doubt) will but make Him more prejudiced against other Ministers.

"In general, we humbly conceive, that, to avoid all Harshness, and afford all kind Usage to His Majesty's Person, in Things consistent with the Peace and Safety of the Kingdom, is the most Christian, honourable, and prudent Way. And in all Things (as the Representation and Remonstrance of the Army do express) we think that tender, equitable, and moderate Dealing, both towards His Majesty, His Royal Family, and His late Party (so far as may stand with Safety to the Kingdom, and Security to our common Rights and Liberties), is the most hopeful Course to take away the Seeds of War, or future Feuds amongst us for Postcrity, and to procure a lasting Peace and Agreement in this now distracted Nation: To the effecting and settling whereof (with a secure Provision first to be made for the common Rights and Liberties of the Kingdom, and a due Care to preserve and propagate the Gospel of Truth and Peace amongst us) we shall hope that neither the Parliament nor His Majesty will be wanting; and if God shall see it good to make us any Way instrumental thereunto, or that we may otherwise see the same accomplished, we shall then think ourselves indeed discharged from the Public Engagements we have been called out unto, more clearly and effectually than (before such Things were settled) we could have thought ourselves to be, and (to demonstrate our Clearness from seeking Self-advantages in what we do) we shall thenceforth account it our greatest Happiness and Honour (if God see it good) to be disengaged and dismissed, not only from our Military Charges, but from all other Matters of Power or Public Employment whatsoever.

"I have, in these Things, spoke not in my own Name alone, but in the Name (because I find it to be the clear Sense) of the Generality, or at least of the most considerable Part of the Army; and I am confident you and the Kingdom will never find it otherwise. I shall leave it to your favourable Construction; and commit all to the Goodness of God for an happy Issue. I remain

Reading, July 8, 1647.

"Your Lordship's
Most humble Servant,

"T. Fairefax."

Footnotes

* Origin. being.
* Deest in Originali.
* Deest in Originali.
Origin. and as.