House of Lords Journal Volume 9
18 August 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 18 August 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 386-388. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37108 Date accessed: 30 August 2014.


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DIE Mercurii, 18 die Augusti.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Sallawey.

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Nottingham.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Denbigh.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Mountague.
Ds. Howard.

Message from the H. C. with Ordinances, &c. and a Declaration for Vindication of the Army.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Robert Pye Knight, &c.; who brought up divers Particulars, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence:

1. An Ordinance for Four Thousand Six Hundred Forty-two Pounds to Captain Plunkett, and the rest of the Owners of the Ship Discovery.

2. An Ordinance for repealing all Votes, Orders, and Ordinances, passed since the Force on both Houses on Monday, 26 July, 1647, until 6 Augusti, 1647.

Read Once, and voted to be rejected.

3. An Order for the Committee for the Affairs of Ireland at Star-chamber to sit constantly.

4. A Declaration for Vindication of the Army under Sir Thomas Fairfax' Command.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Heads for a Conference, about the Declaration from Sir T. Fairfax; and annulling the Proceedings of the Houses, while the Speakers were with the Army.

Ordered, To have a Conference with the House of Commons, concerning the former Votes of this House sent down to the House of Commons, to which no Answer hath yet been given.

And the Earl of Denbigh, Earl of Mulgrave, Lord Viscount Say & Seale, and the Lord Howard, are appointed to draw up Reasons, to be offered to the House of Commons at that Conference, for adhering to those Votes; and report the same to this House: And the said Committee have further Power to prepare an Ordinance in Pursuance of those Votes, to be offered to the House of Commons, at the Conference, after the Reasons offered.

The Lords Committees withdrew presently.

Message to the H. C. for this Conference:

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Aylett and Doctor Heath:

To desire a present Conference, in the Painted (fn. *) Chamber, touching some Votes and Declarations formerly sent down to them.

Heads for it.

The Earl of Denbigh reported from the Committee, the Reasons drawn up for the Conference, and the Ordinance; which were read, and approved of:

"The Lords having formerly sent a Vote, of the 6th of August, 1647, to the House of Commons, declaring that all the Acts and Orders passed under the Force upon the Twenty-sixth of July last, and since, until the Return of the Speakers, were null and void; and having desired the Concurrence of the H. Commons thereunto, as also to several Declarations, the one of Sir Thomas Fairfax and the Council of War in the Name of themselves and the Army, the other of the Lords and Commons which were with the Army; which the Lords having approved of, did likewise desire their Approbation to the said Declarations: And having received no Answer, being often by their Lordships put in Mind of all those Particulars, have therefore desired this Conference, to let them know, That their Lordships conceive themselves bound, in Justice to the Kingdom and Parliament, to insist upon those Votes and Declarations, and to desire their Concurrence to the Votes, and Approbation of the said Declarations, for these Reasons:

"1. It being apparent to all the World, and acknowledged by both Houses, that there was a visible, horrid, insolent, and actual Force upon the Houses of Parliament; and many Members, with both the Speakers, forced from the said Houses; it will prove a dangerous Example and Precedent to maintain the Exercise of an Authority then lawful, at the Time when the Parliament lieth under such a Force to be exercised upon it at Pleasure.

"2. If any sitting under such Force may exercise the Authority of Parliament, and those Acts which they shall do be at that Time accounted valid, and not null, it will not be in the Power of any to vindicate and deliver the Parliament from such Force and Violence; but they will be liable to Censure, for resisting such Authority as is pretended to be lawful in such a Case.

"3. Those who have now acted under such Authority, to raise Forces and cast the Kingdom into a new War, shall, under Pretence of that Authority, be free from being questioned for the same, though some of them may have been the principal Agents in contriving this Mischief.

"The Sense of the House, which was delivered by the Speaker:

"The Lords, in their last Message, did express to that House, That, if the great Affairs of the Kingdom, and the Settlement of the Peace thereof, shall be longer retarded, for Want of their Concurrence in that which the Lords judge to be essential to the Vindication of the Honour and Freedom of Parliament, they conceived it fit and necessary to express, that they held themselves acquit and discharged of any ill Consequences that might ensue thereupon. The Lords have commanded me to declare the same unto you again; and, that they may acquit themselves to all the World, to have used their Endeavours that the Parliament may be put into a Condition speedily to go on for the Settlement of the Peace of the Kingdom, so much desired by them, they have appointed me to offer unto you this Ordinance, in Pursuance of their Votes; whereunto they desire your Concurrence."

Ordinance from the H. C. for annulling the Proceedings, while the Speakers, &c. were absent, rejected.

The Speaker acquainted the House of Commons, "That the Lords had rejected the Ordinance which was brought up this Day."

The Lords went to the Conference; and the House was adjourned during Pleasure.

The House was resumed.

Oxford University.

A Vote touching the University of Oxon; read, and Agreed unto; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons.

Cambridge D°.

Ordered, That Disorders in the University of Cambridge be prevented; and some Course taken to prevent the like in the future. (Here enter it.)

Letter from the Scots Commissioners.

A Letter from the Commissioners of Scotland, was read. (Here enter it.)

Langley's Ordinance to be Master of Pembrook Colledge.

An Ordinance for Mr. Langley, to be Master of Pembrooke Colledge, in Oxon; read, 1°, 2°, 3° Time.

Ordered, To be sent to the House of Commons.

Letter to the Scots Commissioners.

A Letter to the Commissioners of Scotland, read, and approved of; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons for their Concurrence.

Cuffoly to be instituted to Axmouth;

Ordered, That Doctor Heath shall give Institution and Induction unto Francis Cuffoly Clerk, to the Vicarage of Axmouth, in Com. Devon. void by the Death of Nathaniell Dike, the late Incumbent; salvo Jure cujuscunque; he taking the National League and Covenant, and producing his Presentation thereunto under the Hand and Seal of Sir Walter Earle Knight, Patron.

and Frahock to Witheyll.

Ordered, That Doctor Heath give Institution and Induction unto Henry Frahocke, to the Rectory of Witheyll, in Com. Cornwall; salvo Jure cujuscunque; he taking the National League and Covenant, and producing his Presentation thereunto, under the Hand and Seal of Elizabeth Glanvill Patroness, Widow, Relict of Sir Francis Glanvill, of Tavistock, in Com. Devon, Knight, deceased.

Message to the H. C. with the Letter to the Scots Commissioners; and with Pringle's and Langley's Ordinances.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Heath and Doctor Aylett;

To desire their Concurrence:

1. In the Ordinance to make Mr. Langley Master of Pembrooke Colledge, in Oxon.

2. A Letter to the Commissioners of Scotland.

3. An Ordinance for Mr. John Pringle to be Preacher at Carham Church, in Northumberland, and to have One Hundred and Fifty Pounds per Annum out of the Dean and Chapter's Lands of Durham.

Emins, a Pass.

Ordered, That the Earl of Arundell's Servant Mr. Emins, and Mrs. Emins his Daughter, shall have Liberty to go beyond Sea, and return.

Ld. Willoughby's Son & al. Leave to go to France.

Ordered, That the Lord Willoughby's Son, with St. Ravye's Brother, shall have Liberty to go into France.

Letter from the Scots Commissioners, complaining of their Secretary being stopped at Newcastle; and that they have yet received no Reparation for the Insult offered to the Earl of Lauderdail at Weburn.

"For the Right Honnorable the Speaker of the House of Peeres pro Tempore.

"Right Honorable,

"Wee cannott but with greate Sense of these many Injuryes wee suffer daily acquaint your Lordship therewith, as they fall out Not long agoe wee made knowne to the Honnorable Houses, that the Earle of Lauderdaill, One of our Number, was violently stopped, and denyed Accesse to His Majesty (by Sir Thomas Fairefaxe's Souldiers), contrary to the Agreement betwixt the Kingdomes, whereof as yet wee have had noe Reparation. And now, our Secretary Mr. Cheisley, being sent by us unto the Kingdome of Scotland, is stopped and deteyned at Newcastle, by the Governor thereof, Mr. Lilburne; alleadging such to be the Condition of Affaires now betwixt the Kingdomes, that, without the Generall's Order, he was not to permitt any to passe. Mr. Cheisly tould him, "That the Kingdome of Scotland had done nothing that might give Cause to interrupt their former Correspondency and mutuall Amity; desireing that he should not give Ground of a Breach of that happy Union betwixt the Nations; shewing unto him our Passe, which ever heretofore hes bin reputed to our owne Servaunts sufficient, and telling that he was our Secretary sent by us to Scotland; and if that could not procure him Liberty of Passage, he hopes he would acknowledge the Authority of the Speaker of the House of Commons his Passe as a sufficient Warrant." But he answered, "He was to obey the Generall's Orders; and if he could not produce that, he would not lett him passe." If this be not an high Infringment of the Lawe of Nations, and of the Publique Faith betwixt the Kingdomes, yea, and of your owne Authority, wee leave it to yourselves to judge; hopeing your Lordship will cause make Reparation to the Kingdomes of Scotland of those multiplide Injuryes, the intercepting of our Letters, and violent stopping of their Commissioners from the King, and now denying their Servaunts free Passage to that Kingdome; which wee conceive the Honorable Houses would not have taken well, if the like Acts of Violence had bin done to their Commissioners and Servaunts while they were in the Kingdome of Scotland. If effectuall Remedyes against such Injustice and Violence be not seasonably provided by the Wisdome of the Honorable Houses, wee cannott see how wee can be heare in the Capacity of Commissioners, to discharge the Trust committed to us. Wee rest

Worcester House, the 17th Aug. 1647.

"Your Lordship's
Humble Servaunts,
Charles Erskine.
Hew. Kennedy.
Rob. Berclay."

Order concerning the Government of St. John's College, Combridge.

Whereas the Lords in Parliament have received certain Papers from the Vice-chancellor and the Heads of Colleges in the University of Cambridge, and also have received a Petition presented by some Fellows of St. John's Colledge in that University, whereby they understand that there are some Contentions arising, about the Validity of some Orders of the Committee heretofore authorized by Ordinance of Parliament for the regulating the University of Cambridge, touching the Government of the said College, whereby Elections and other the most important Affairs thereof are wholly obstructed; the great and weighty Concernments of the Kingdom not permitting at present a full Examination of the said Papers and Petition, and a final Determination of the aforesaid Differences: It is therefore Ordered, by the Lords in Parliament, That the Vicechancellor, and the Heads of Colleges, placed there by Authority of Parliament, together with One or more of the Justices of the Peace for the University of Cambridge, or any Three of them, whereof One to be a Justice of the Peace, do examine the Truth of the Particulars in the aforesaid Papers and Petition; and shall have Power to administer an Oath, if they see Cause, to the Witnesses; and do certify to the Parliament the Truth of the said Particulars, and their Opinions upon the whole Business: And in the mean Time both Parties are required quietly to submit themselves, and to yield Obedience to all the Orders of the abovesaid Committee for the University, until the Government of the said College and University can be settled by Authority of Parliament.

Adjourn.

Adjourned till Friday 10 of the Clock.

Footnotes

* Deest in Originali.