House of Lords Journal Volume 9
6 September 1647

Sponsor

History of Parliament Trust

Publication

Year published

1767-1830

Pages

Annotate

Comment on this article
Double click anywhere on the text to add an annotation in-line

Citation Show another format:

'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 6 September 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 422-425. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37118 Date accessed: 22 July 2014.


Highlight

(Min 3 characters)

Contents

DIE Lunæ, 6 die Septembris.
Answer from the H. C. Message from thence, with Ordinances, &c. Swedish Agent desires Leave to deliver a Letter from his Mistress to the King. Answer to the H. C. Message from thence, to sit a while. Answer. Ordinance to slight the Works about London. Ordinance to settle the Westminster Militia. Committee to treat with the Scots Commissioners. Passed 7 Sept. at House Commons. Papers between the Committees and the Scots Commissioners. Message from the H. C. with Instructions to the Commissioners, about presenting the Propositions; and for Committees to desire the Scots Commissioners to give an Answer about them. Answer. Papers from the Scots Commissioners. Propositions to be sent to the King. Letter to the Estates of Scotland, about the E. of Lauderdail's Affront. Message to the H. C. about the Committee for treating with the Scots Commissioners;— Papers between them, &c.;—and about the following Particulars. Ordinance for Colonel Hammond to be Governor of the Isle of Wight. Order for calling in Clipp'd Money. Committee for Sequestrations for Stafford, to act in Litchfield. Papers between Committees of both Houses and the Scots Commissioners, concerning the Propositions. Instructions to the Commissioners with the King, about presenting them. Papers from the Scots Commissioners, about the Propositions, &c. Letter to the Ld. Chancellor of Scotland, about recalling the Scots Forces from Ireland. Order to put off the Assizes for Chester, Flint, &c. Four Papers approved of (delivered to the Scotts Commissioners) at the H. C. 7th Sept. 1647. Footnotes

DIE Lunæ, 6 die Septembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Carter.

Comes Kent, Speaker pro Tempore.

Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Mulgrave.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Wharton.
Ds. La Warr.

Answer from the H. C.

Mr. Page, &c. return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

That they agree to the Order for putting off the Assizes, in the Counties of Denbigh, Flint, Mountgomery, and Chester; and to the Letter to the Chancellor of Scotland: (Here enter them.) To all the rest, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from thence, with Ordinances, &c.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Mr. Gyles Greene, &c.

To desire their Lordships Concurrence in divers Particulars:

1. They agree to the Ordinance for making Colonel Robert Hamond Governor of the Isle of Wight, with some Alterations, wherein they desire their Lordships Concurrence. (Here enter it.)

Read, and Agreed to.

2. An Ordinance for calling in Clip-money.

(Here enter it.)

Agreed to, and Ordered to be printed.

3. An Order for the Committee for Sequestrations for the County of Stafford to put in Execution all Ordinances of Sequestration. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

4. An Ordinance for Persons who have been in Arms against the Parliament not to be elected or constituted Mayors, Sheriff, Bailiff, &c.

Agreed to, with a Proviso.

Swedish Agent desires Leave to deliver a Letter from his Mistress to the King.

The Lord Wharton signified to this House, "That the Swedish Commissioner acquainted the Committee at Derby House, That he had a Letter to deliver, from the Queen of Sweden, to the King; but his Instructions are, That he shall have Leave from both Houses of Parliament, before he deliver it; and he hath sent Copies of it already to the said Committee, and they have perused it: Therefore he desired to know, whether he may send it to the King, without further publishing it in both Houses."

Answer to the H. C.

The Answer returned to the aforesaid Message was:

That concerning the Ordinance touching such as have been in Arms against the Parliament, their Lordships will send an Answer by Messengers of their own: To all the rest, they do Agree to.

Message from thence, to sit a while.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, &c.

To desire their Lordships would please to sit a while; for they shall have Occasion to bring up some Business of Importance.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will sit a while.

Ordinance to slight the Works about London.

Ordered, That the Militia for the City of London be sent to, from both Houses, to put the Ordinance for slighting the Works and Line of Communication about the City into present Execution.

Ordinance to settle the Westminster Militia.

Ordered, That the Lord Wharton and the Lord Howard do prepare and draw up an Ordinance for settling the Militia of Westm. and the Liberties, with the Names of the Persons, and present the same to this House.

Committee to treat with the Scots Commissioners.

(fn. *) Passed 7 Sept. at House Commons.

Ordered, That any Three, whereof a Member of each House to be present, be a Quorum of the Committee of the Members of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to treat and confer with the Scotch Commissioners, according to the Powers heretofore given to the said Committee, and such Orders as they from Time to Time shall receive from both Houses.

The Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein.

Papers between the Committees and the Scots Commissioners.

The Lord Wharton reported divers Papers, which were agitated between the Members of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdoms and the Scotts Commissioners; which were read. (Here enter them.)

Ordered, That this House approves of Papers of the 4th of September, delivered by those of the Members of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdoms then present, unto the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, and of the Delivering of the same unto them; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein.

Message from the H. C. with Instructions to the Commissioners, about presenting the Propositions; and for Committees to desire the Scots Commissioners to give an Answer about them.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir John Evelyn Knight;

To desire Concurrence in these Particulars:

1. Instructions to the Commissioners with the King, about presenting the Propositions for Peace to the King.

(Here enter them.)

Agreed to.

2. An Order, That the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms do meet this Afternoon, and send to the Scotts Commissioners, to desire them to meet, and give them their positive Answer concerning their joining to present the Propositions to His Majesty on Tuesday the 7th of this Instant September; the Houses not intending hereby any Way to prevent or delay the presenting the said Propositions To-morrow to His Majesty.

Agreed to.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Instructions, and the Order now brought up.

Papers from the Scots Commissioners.

The Lord Viscount Say & Seale reported from the Committee of both Kingdoms Two Papers, which the Scotts Commissioners delivered to them; which were read. (Here enter them.)

Propositions to be sent to the King.

Ordered, That this House adheres to the former Resolutions, of sending the Propositions to the King Tomorrow; and that the same be signified to the Scotts Commissioners this Afternoon, by the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

Letter to the Estates of Scotland, about the E. of Lauderdail's Affront.

A Draught of a Letter to be sent to the Committee of Estates of Scotland, touching the Earl of Lauderdaill's Business, &c. was read, and Agreed to; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons for their Concurrence.

Ordered, That Mr. Row shall carry the Letter concerning the Scotts Forces in Ulster.

Message to the H. C. about the Committee for treating with the Scots Commissioners;—

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Page and Mr. Sadler:

1. To desire their Concurrence in the Order for reducing the Quorum at Derby House to Three.

Papers between them, &c.;—and about the following Particulars.

2. To desire Concurrence in the Order for approving of the Papers of the 4th of September, delivered to the Scot'h Commissioners by the Members of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

3. To desire Concurrence in the Proviso to the Ordinance for disabling Persons that have been in Arms against the Parliament to be chosen Mayor, &c.

4. To desire Concurrence to the Letter to be sent to the Estates of Scotland.

5. To deliver to them the Two Scotch Papers; and to let the House of Commons know, that the Lords do adhere to the former Resolution, of sending the Propositions to the King To-morrow; and that the Committee let the Scotch Commissioners know so much this Afternoon.

6. That Mr. Row be sent to the Chancellor of Scotland, with the Letter for re-calling the Scotch Forces out of Ulster.

7. To desire their Concurrence in the Order to be sent to the Militia of London, about slighting the Works.

Ordinance for Colonel Hammond to be Governor of the Isle of Wight.

"The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament do order, establish, and ordain, That Colonel Robert Hammond be Captain and Governor of the Isle of Wight, and all Forts, Ports, Towers, and Places of Strength therein; and do command the same, with all the Forces, Magazines, Ordnance, Arms, and Ammunition, and other Things thereunto belonging; and have, hold, and enjoy, the said Command and Government, with all Rights, Liberties, Benefits, Emoluments, and Privileges whatsoever, thereunto belonging, until the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament shall otherwise order, in as full and ample Manner as Phillip Earl of Pembrooke, or Jerome Earl of Portland, or any other Captain or Governor of the said Isle of Wight, hath formerly, and might have lawfully, enjoyed the same: Provided always, and it is hereby Ordained, That the said Colonel Robert Hammond be subject unto the Commands of Sir Thomas Fairefax Knight, Commander in Chief of all the Land Forces in the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales, in the Pay of the Parliament; and do from Time to Time observe such Orders and Directions as he shall receive from both Houses of Parliament, or from the said Sir Thomas Fairefax: And be it further Ordered and Ordained, by the Authority aforesaid, That the Commissioners of the Great Seal of England for the Time being be hereby authorized, ordered, and required, to pass a Grant to him the said Colonel Robert Hammond, under the said Great Seal of England, according to the Tenor of this present Ordinance; and His Majesty's Solicitor General is hereby required to prepare a Bill accordingly."

Order for calling in Clipp'd Money.

"Forasmuch as, during these Distractions, great Sums of Monies, clipped, and unlawfully diminished, have been dispersed and given out amongst the People, throughout the Kingdom: For the speedy Suppression thereof, and Prevention of the like in the future, be it Ordained, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That from henceforth no Money diminished by Clipping or Filing shall be current or payable in this Kingdom, or be offered in Payment, or received as due Payment, by any Person whatsoever; but be esteemed as Bullion, and no otherwise: And to the End that such Monies as are by this present Ordinance declared to be uncurrent may not for the present become unuseful unto such as live in remote Parts of the Kingdom, and cannot sell them but at Under Rates, be it Ordained, That, for Three Months after the Date hereof, the said Clipt Money shall be allowed of in Payment at Four Shillings Ten Pence the Ounce for Goldsmiths Weights, which is Troy Weight; or Four Shillings Four Pence Halfpenny the Ounce Avoirdupois which is the Common Weight; and all Persons may hereby take Notice, that such Clipped Money will yield in London Four Shillings and Eleven Pence per Ounce for Goldsmiths Weight, and Four Shillings Five Pence Half-penny per Ounce for Avoirdupois Weight, at the least: Provided nevertheless, That it is not hereby intended, that any old Monies, which are apparent not to be clipt, or otherwise lawfully diminished, but are only grown light through Wearing and Wasting by long passing from Hand to Hand, shall be included within this Order; but shall still be current, without Dispute, as formerly."

Committee for Sequestrations for Stafford, to act in Litchfield.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That the Committee of Sequestrations for the County of Stafford shall have hereby Power to put in Execution the several Ordinances of Sequestration within the City and County of the City of Litchfeild."

"Die Saturni, 4 Septembris, 1647.

Papers between Committees of both Houses and the Scots Commissioners, concerning the Propositions.

"At a Committee of the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"In Pursuance of an Order of both Houses of the Third Instant, we do acquaint your Lordships, That, upon Consideration of the last Paper sent to the Houses by your Lordships, the Houses do adhere to their Resolution of sending the Propositions to the King on Tuesday next; and we are here ready to endeavour to clear those Things wherein your Lordships shewed yourselves unsatisfied in your said Paper.

"By Command of the same Committee.

"Gualter Frost, Secretary."

"By your Lordships Paper now presently delivered to us, wee perceive that the Honnorable Houses doe adhere to their Resolution of sending the Propositions on Tuesday to His Majesty; and that your Lordships are ready to endeavor to cleere these Things wherein wee shewed ourselves unsattisfyed: Your Lordships, in your former Paper, tould us, "That the Propositions are the same presented formerly to His Majesty at Newcastle, except in some few Particulers concerning your owne Delinquents, and the Bishops Lands." As to the First, Although wee doe not at all medle with the lessning of the Compositions or Fynes of your owne Delinquents, or shall not oppose any Favor of that Kinde which the Houses shall shew to them; yet, because the Orders and Ordinances which this Provisoe relates to are passed since the Propositions were presented to His Majesty by both Kingdomes, and may, for ought wee knowe, not bee agreeable to the Propositions, as they were then agreed on by the Two Kingdomes; wee desire therefore to see those Orders and Ordinances of One or both Houses, as alsoe the Two Ordinances for abolishinge Archbishopps and Bishopps, &c. and the Sale of their Lands: This was the Course formerly observed, and wee are confident will be now thought most reasonable. Wee shall shun every Thinge that may be a Delay to the setlinge of a happy Peace, which wee have and shall ever be ready to promove. But wee must yet againe represent to the Houses the extreme Shortnes of the Tyme, which was appointed without our Knowledge or Consent; although (as wee said before) wee have attended here many Moneths without heareing any Thinge of these Propositions.

"Wee doe not finde the First Part of our last Paper answered; and therefore againe (according to the Commaunds wee received from Scotland) wee earnestly intreate the Honnorable Houses to retourne an Answere to the Letter of the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland, beareing Date the 21th of Aug. as wee have formerly desired.

4th Sept'r, 1647.

"By Commaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

"John Donn."

"Die Saturni, 4 Septembris, 1647.

"At a Committee of the Members of both Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"We have considered your Lordships Paper now delivered unto us: And as to that Part thereof that concerns the Earl of Lauderdaille, we can give no other Answer than what the Houses have given; and to that concerning the Orders and Ordinances which the Proviso relates unto, they are only for admitting such Delinquents to Composition as had not come in within the Time limited by the Propositions formerly sent to the King, and for settling the Rates of their Compositions, and the Time in which they should come in; which yet (for your better Satisfaction) we shall endeavour to procure you the Sight of very speedily, as also the Ordinances concerning Bishops and their Lands. And we do desire your Lordships Concurrence in the Delivery of the Propositions to His Majesty on Tuesday next, which is the Time resolved on by both Houses.

"By Command of the same Committee.

"Gualter Frost, Secretary."

"Instructions for Phillip Earl of Pembrooke and Mountgomery, Bazill Earl of Denbigh, Edward Lord Mountagu, Sir John Holland Baronet, Sir Walter Erle, Sir John Cooke, Sir James Harrington, Knights, John Crewe and Richard Browne Esquires, or any Three or more of them, appointed Committees of both Houses of the Parliament of England, to join with the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, to present to the King's Majesty the Propositions for a safe and well-grounded Peace, and to receive His Majesty's Answer thereupon.

Instructions to the Commissioners with the King, about presenting them.

"You are to observe the Instructions following:

"You, or any Three or more of you, shall present to the King, at Hampton Court, or elsewhere where the King's Residence shall be, on Tuesday, being the Seventh Day of this Instant September, from the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England, the Propositions herewith sent unto you, for a safe and well-grounded Peace.

"2. You, or any Three or more of you, are to desire from the King His positive Answer and Consent to the said Propositions.

"3. Any Three of you are to repair, with all Diligence and Speed, to the Parliament at Westm'r, as soon as you, or any Three or more of you, shall have received the said Answer from His Majesty: In Expectation of the said Answer, you are not to make Stay above the Space of Six Days next after you shall receive these Instructions.

"But, the said Time of Six Days being expired, any Three of you are forthwith, without any Delay, to repair to the Parliament of England, to give them an Account of your Proceedings.

"And in case the Scotts Commissioners be not at Hampton Court, or at such Place where the King's Residence shall be, on Tuesday the said Seventh of this Instant September present, to join with you when you shall present the said Propositions to His Majesty; then you, or any Three or more of you, are to present the said Propositions to His Majesty alone, and to receive His Majesty's Answer thereunto according to the preceding Instructions."

Papers from the Scots Commissioners, about the Propositions, &c.

"Wee have received the Two Ordinances touchinge the abolishing of Archbishopps and Bishopps within the Kingdome of England and Dominion of Wales, and the sellinge of their Lands; and wee doe agree that they bee added to the Propositions of Peace formerly presented to His Majesty. Wee have alsoe received Twelve Orders and Ordinances. If the Proviso relate to any more, wee desire likewise to see them, for to those wee have noe Exception; as alsoe wee desire to see the Forme Pardon agreed on by both Houses, and expressed in the said Proviso, that there bee nothinge in it contrary to any former Proposition. As to the rest of your Lordships last Paper of the 4th of September, wee shall say noe more than what is said in ours of the same Date; which, together with this, wee desire may bee reported to both Houses of Parliament; and wee are confident the Honnorable Houses will not insist soe peremptorily upon soe short a Day.

"By a Letter from the Committee of Estates of the Kingdome of Scotland, come to our Hands this Day, they lett us knowe, they have received the Coppy of that Letter from Sir Thomas Fairefax sent to us by the Honnorable Houses, and by us transmitted to them: They expect a more sattisfactory Answere from the Houses, which they commaund us againe to desire, and to hast the same to them with all Speede.

"By Command of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

6th Sept. 1647.

"John Donn."

"Wee are comaunded, by the Parliament of Scotland, to deleet out of the First Exception all such of the Scottish Nation as are taken off by the Parliament of that Kingdome; particularly the Earle of Traquare, who is not only reconciled, but sitts as a Member of that Parliament, capable of Publique Trust and Imployment; as alsoe the Earles of Nithisdale and Forth, the Lords Ogilby, Herreis, and Itham, Irving Younger of Drum, and Sir Alexander Lesley of Auchintoule. Wee are alsoe warranted, and are willinge, to agree to the takeing out as many of the English as the Houses of Parliament shall thinke fitt.

"By Comaund of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland.

6th September, 1647.

"John Donn."

Letter to the Ld. Chancellor of Scotland, about recalling the Scots Forces from Ireland.

"My Lord,

"The Two Houses of the Parliament of England have, by their Votes of the 24th of August last, Resolved and Declared, "That this Kingdom is not able to pay the Scotts Army in Ireland any longer; and that they will carry on the War there with their own Forces:" And finding it provided and agreed upon, by the Thirteenth Article of that Treaty, "That, at any Time after the Three Months then agreed upon for the Entertainment of the Scottish Army shall be expired, and that the Two Houses of Parliament, or such Persons as shall be authorized by them, shall give Notice to the Council of Scotland, or to the Lord Chancellor there, that, after One Month from such Notice given, the said Two Houses of Parliament will not pay the Scottish Army in Ireland any longer; then the said Two Houses of Parliament shall not be obliged to pay the said Army any longer than during the said Month;" the said Two Houses of Parliament, in Pursuance of the Directions and Agreement in the said Thirteenth Article expressed, have commanded us to give Notice unto your Lordship, That, after One Month from this Notice given, they will not pay the said Scottish Army any longer. And we do further signify to your Lordship, That the said Two Houses have also Declared, That, in case any Thing shall appear to be due unto that Army over and above what they have already received, they will take Care that due Satisfaction be given; and also that they will give Order that Fourteen Days Pay shall be provided for the Common Soldiers of the Scottish Army, to be paid them at their Dismission, for the carrying of them Home (according to the Agreement of the Twelfth Article of the said Treaty.)

"This is that which at present the Two Houses have commanded should be given Notice of to your Lordship, by,

"My Lord,
Your Lordship's
Affectionate Friends and Servants."

Order to put off the Assizes for Chester, Flint, &c.

"Upon Information, That the Infection of the Plague is so dispersed over the Counties of Chester, Denbigh, Flynt, and Mountgom'y, that it will be dangerous to hold the Grand Sessions in those Parts, in regard of the great Concourse of People summoned and resorting upon those Occasions, until it shall please God to stay the said Infection: It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That John Bradshawe Esquire, Chief Justice of Chester, do forbear the keeping of the Grand Sessions in the aforesaid Counties for this Time."

(fn. *) Four Papers approved of (delivered to the Scotts Commissioners) at the H. C. 7th Sept. 1647.

"The Lords and Commons do approve of the Papers of the 4th of September, delivered by those of the Members of both Houses of the Committee of both Kingdoms then present, unto the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland, and of the Delivery of the same unto them."

Footnotes

* This Marginal Note is in the Original.
* This Marginal Note is in the Original.