DIE Martis, die 14 Septembris.
Domini præsentes fuerunt:
Comes Manchester, Speaker.
Dickenson sent for, for slighting the Order of this House, about the Privileges of Camb. University.
Upon reading the Affidavit of John Houlden; complaining, "That Henry Dickenson, (fn. *) One of the present
Bailiffs of the Town of Cambridge, hath contemned
the Order of this House:" (Here enter it.)
It is Ordered, That the said Henry Dickenson shall
be sent for, as a Delinquent, to answer the said Complaint; and that the Proofs against him shall be sent up.
Letter from the Mayor of Sandwich.
A Letter from the Mayor and Jurats of Sand'ich, with
Two Examinations inclosed, were read.
(Here enter them.)
Message from the H. C. with Orders;—and a Letter to the Parliament of Scotland, about the E. of Lauderdail.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons,
by Sir Rob't Pye Knight; who brought up divers Particulars, wherein they desire their Lordships (fn. †) Concurrence:
1. An Ordinance for continuing the Commissioners of
the Great Seal of England till 10 Dec. next.
(Here enter it.)
2. A Letter to be sent to the Estates of Scotland, concerning the Earl of Lauderdaill. (Here enter it.)
3. An Order, That Mr. Row shall carry the Letter to
the Estates of Scotland. (Here enter it.)
The Answer returned was:
That this House agrees to all the Particulars now
Commissioners who presented the Propositions, return with the King's Answer.
The Earl of Pembrooke reported to the House, "That,
according to the Commands of both Houses, he had
delivered the Propositions for a safe and well-grounded
Peace to His Majesty; and have brought the King's
Answer to them:" And his Lordship presented a
Paper, containing the Discourse between the King and
the Commissioners. Then the said Answer and the
Paper were read. (Here enter them.)
Message to the H. C. with it; and for it to be communicated to the Scots Commissioners.
Ordered, That this Answer of the King's be communicated to the House of Commons; with a Desire of
their Concurrence, that the same may be communicated
to the Scotch Commissioners, by the Members of both
Houses that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms.
And this was immediately sent down to the House of
Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page.
King's Answer to the Propositions.
Ordered, That this House will take the King's Answer to the Propositions into Consideration on Thursday
Morning next; and the Lords to have Notice to attend
Hallett to be instituted to Cheddington.
Ordered, That Doctor Aylett shall give Institution
and Induction to Thomas Hallett Clerk, to the Rectory
of Cheddington, in the County of Dorsett, void by the
Death of George Lutherell Clerk; the said Mr. Hallett
producing his Presentation thereunto under the Hand
and Seal of Robert Owsley Gentleman, the lawful Patron: This to be with a salvo Jure cujuscunque.
E. of Pembroke's Protestation.
This Day the Earl of Pembrooke and Mountgomery
presented to this House a Paper, which was an Addition
to his former Protestation; which was read.
(Here enter it.)
And the House declared, "That they were fully
satisfied with this Protestation of his Lordship; and
did approve of it;" and ordered the same to be
entered in the Journal Book of this House.
Letter from the Mayor and Jurats of Sandwich, about Words spoke by V.
"To the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the Honourable High
Court of Parliament, and to every of the
Lords in the said Court assembled.
Adm. Batten, concerning the Intentions of the Army.
These. Haste, Haste, Haste.
"Haste, Haste, Post Haste. For the Service of
the King and Parliament, These. Haste,
"By the Examinations, true Copies whereof are inclosed, your Lordships may perceive some Words
laid upon Captain Batten, to have been spoken by
him, concerning the King's Majesty and the Army.
Though by the last Examination the Words fall much
short of what the First Examination importeth; yet,
in Discharge of our Duties we owe to your Lordships,
we could do no less than bind over the Parties, farther
to testify concerning the Matter, where and when
they should be legally required; and to certify your
Lordships what had been done therein, by
10 Septembris, 1647.
"The Mayor and Jurats of Sandwich."
Examinations concerning them.
"Sandwic ss. Sexto Die Septembris, Anno Regis
Caroli, &c. 23°, Annoque Domini 1647. The
Examination of Andrew Gosfright, of Sandw'ch aforesaid, Jurat, One of His Majesty's
Justices of the Peace there, taken upon Oath,
before Henry Forstall Esquire, Mayor of Sandw'ch aforesaid, and Richard Selwin Jurat,
His Majesty's Justices, &c.
"The Examinate saith, That, Sabbath-day last was
Sevennight, the Minister who preached the same Day
at the Church of St. Marye's in this Town, being a
Minister, as he faith, in One of the Ships now employed in the State's Service, did, the same Day and the
next Day following, in this Examinate's House, and
and at The Bell in this Town, in the Hearing of this
Examinate, say, "That he had heard Captain Batten
(meaning Captain Batten now Vice Admiral in The
Downes), as this Examinate took it, say, That the
Army, notwithstanding they did hold the King in Suspence, would in the Conclusion take off His Head;"
or Words to the very same Effect. This Examinate
also saith, That the said Minister did not name the
Time when the said Captain Batten should speak the
same Words, or the Place where the same were
spoken; neither doth this Examinate know the said
Minister's Name, or his Place of Abode, or where he
may be found; only he conceiveth at this Time the
said Minister is in Deale.
"Sandwich ss. Nono Die Septembris, Anno Regis
Caroli, &c. 23°, Annoque Domini, 1647. The
Examination of John Springham Clerk, Minister of the Ship called The Providence, now
lying in The Downes, being in the Service of
the State, John Stansby Captain, taken upon
Oath, before Henry Forstall Esquire, Mayor,
William Halsnod, Richard Selwin, John Hawke,
and John Moore, Jurats, His Majesty's Justices, &c.
"The said Examinate saith, That he did never hear
Captain Batten say, "That the Army, notwithstanding
they did hold the King in Suspence, would in the
Conclusion take off His Head;" nor any Words to that
Effect. But this Examinate consesseth, That he did
tell Mr. Gosfright, of this Town, Jurat, on Sabbathday last was Sevennight, at his the said Mr. Gosfright's
House, That he had heard Captain Batten, meaning
Captain Batten now Vice Admiral in The Downes,
say, "That he feared the Army would not deal fairly
with the King;" or Words to that Effect. He saith,
The Words were spoken within Six Weeks last past;
but the certain Time or Place he remembereth not.
Earl of Pembroke's further Declaration and Protestation, against the Orders, &c. passed while the Speakers were with the Army; and that he was under Force at that Time.
"Die Veneris, 20 Aug. 1647.
"The Earl of Pembrooke this Day declared in the House,
That, while the Houses of Parliament were under the
Force and Violence, from the 26th of July last, until
the Sixth of August when both Speakers returned to
the Houses, he holds all the Orders, Ordinances, and
other Acts, which passed in that Time, to be null and
void, as being done without Authority of Parliament;
and acknowledging both himself and the rest of the
Lords that acted during that Time to be under Force:
With which Acknowledgement the Lords rested satisfied.
"Besides my Declaration hereunto annexed, made in
the House of Peers the 20th Day of August, 1647,
by which that House received Satisfaction; I do humbly offer this following to your Lordships further Consideration; videlicet,
"That, on Monday the 26th of July, 1647, a very
peremptory Order was made, and entered in the Book
of the House of Peers, That every Peer should thereby be strictly commanded and enjoined to meet and attend the Service of the said House on Friday the 30th
of July, 1647, then next following. I, not knowing
the Intention of any Peer or Commoner to meet at
any other Place, did repair accordingly to the said
House of Peers; where (and also in the House of
Commons) the Committee for the Safety being revived, the Guards, and City and Works very strictly and
strongly watched, so that I could not leave the City;
and, being so surprized, I durst not afterwards but
follow the Orders and Directions of that Power, and
that Committee for the Safety, though never so contrary to my Judgement; for that I was continually
under a Force, both by the Apprentices and others.
And, as at other Times formerly and usually, which is
well known, I did join with those that voted for the
Public, and concurred therein with the Army, and,
while the Parliament was under that Force, I did as
far as in me lay oppose the Votes that were to the
contrary; which I hope will prove satisfactory to all.
"Pembrook and Mount."
Ordinance to continue the Commissioners for the Great Seal.
"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled
in Parliament, That the Great Seal of England be
continued in the Custody of Edward Earl of Manchester Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore,
and of William Lenthall Esquire Speaker of the
House of Commons, in the same Manner, and with
the same Power and Authorities, as now it is, until
the 10th Day of December next: It is further Ordered, That the Commission for hearing Causes in
Chancery be continued, in the same Manner as now
it is, for the same Term of Time, until the 10th of
Letter to the States of Scotland; in Answer to theirs, complaining of the Affront offered to the E. of Lauderdail, and desiring Security for future Safety of their Commissioners, &c.
"We have received your Lordship's Letter of the
21th of August last, taking Notice of some Violence
offered to the Earl of Lauderdaill by some Soldiers
in the Army of Sir Thomas Fairefax; and although
your Commissioners have been informed that the General knew nothing thereof, and hath disavowed the
same, yet we have put it into a Way of further Examination, that we might have full Satisfaction of the
Matter of Fact; of the Truth whereof when we are
informed, we shall give you Notice: And as we have
formerly, upon divers Occasions, passed by Matters
of Offence given us, that no Misunderstanding might
grow thereupon, so we shall not maintain or approve
any unfit or unjustifiable Deportment of any towards
your Commissioners, or any employed from that
Kingdom; but, upon Knowledge of the Matter of
Fact, and Persons offending, we shall do that which
is just, to give the Kingdom of Scotland Satisfaction
in it. And as to the Security desired, under the
Hands of the Speakers of both Houses, and from
Sir Thomas Fairefax and his Council of War, for such
as you shall employ, or that shall have Passes from
you, to have Access to His Majesty and the Parliament; the Houses do declare, That none shall be
debarred from having Access to His Majesty, who
have Warrant from the Parliament of Scotland, or
from the Committee thereunto authorized, except
such as are disabled by the Propositions agreed on
by both Kingdoms. But as to such Assurance from
Sir Thomas Fairefax and his Council of War, it hath
been formerly refused to the King, when He desired
the like from the Generals of the Armies of either
Nations; and that by your Commissioners, then here
present, joining with the Houses in that Answer to
His Majesty. For the Matter of Trade, we do not
find in your Letters any Mention of any particular
Interruption of Trade, nor do we know of any;
but, when any such do appear unto us, we will do
that which to Justice shall appertain; and shall ever
be ready to do all Things that may preserve a good
Understanding and Correspondence between the Two
Kingdoms. This is that which the Houses have
commanded should be represented to your Lordships;
and we rest,
Westm'r, 14th Sept'r, 1647.
Order for Rowe to carry the Letter to the Chancellor of Scotland.
"The Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament
do order, That Mr. William Rowe do carry and deliver the Letters agreed upon by both Houses, to be
sent to the Chancellor of Scotland, the Council of
Scotland, and the Committee of Estates of Scotland;
and observe such further Directions as he shall receive from the Committee at Derby House."
Account of the Propositions being presented to the King.
"After we had presented, and desired the King's
positive Answer and Consent to, the Propositions;
the King asked us, "Whether these Propositions
were the same which were presented to Him formerly at Newcastle?" The Earl of Pembrooke told Him,
"That these were the same Propositions; only there
was an Addition for the Sale of Bishops Lands, and
some Alteration touching Delinquents." The King
then asked, "Whether that the Commissioners of
Scotland did agree to these Propositions, as they were
now presented?" The Earl of Lauderdaill answered,
"That these Propositions were the same that were
formerly agreed by both Kingdoms; there was only
an Addition for an Ordinance to be passed for the
abolishing of Archbishops and Bishops, and Sale of
their Lands; which, by their Instructions, they were
warranted to agree (fn. *) to; and that they were likewise
commanded to expunge such of the Scottch Nation
Delinquents that the Parliament of Scotland had taken
off, and particularly some Persons; which they did,
by a Paper given in to both Houses." He said likewise, "He found a Proviso added; but that they had
that Day received a Declaration from both Houses,
by which it was declared, That nothing was therein
contained disagreeable to the former Propositions,
saving only in the Matter of Fines and Compositions
of Delinquents: Upon which, his Lordship said,
they did concur in presenting these Propositions."
The King then replied, "That He was somewhat
surprized with them, not looking now for them; but
He would give an Answer to them as soon as He
could:" And upon Thursday, about Ten of the
Clock, His Majesty sent us Word, "That He would
be ready to give His Answer to the Propositions about
Four of the Clock in the Afternoon, and commanded
us then to attend Him," which we did accordingly;
when His Majesty told us, "That, if this were a
Time for Complaints, He might well complain that
He had sent many Messages to the Houses, to which
He had received no Answer at all: But it is a Time
now (said He) for every one to endeavour to do all
the Good he can; and therefore He had (in as short
a Time as He could) prepared His Answer to the
Propositions, which (He took God to Witness) was
such as in His Opinion led to the best Way for settling
of a happy and speedy Peace in these Kingdoms. If
it were not so in every Man's Opinion, His Majesty
wished that we might all be charitable to one
another; and so delivered the Answer to us: Which
after we had amongst ourselves read, the Earl of
Pembrooke, with the rest of the Commissioners repairing to the King, desired His Majesty's positive Answer and Consent to the Propositions. To which the
King replied, "That that which He had delivered
to us was His Answer, and that He could give no
other; which He conceived was a positive Answer."
The King's Answer to them.
"His Majesty cannot choose but be passionately sensible (as He believes all His good Subjects are) of the
late great Distractions and still languishing and unsettled State of this Kingdom. And He calls God to
Witness, and is willing to give Testimony to all the
World, of His Readiness to contribute His utmost
Endeavours for restoring it to a happy and flourishing
"His Majesty, having perused the Propositions now
brought to Him, finds them the same in Effect which
were offered to Him at Newcastle: To some of which
as He could not then consent without Violation of
His Conscience and Honour; so neither can He agree
to others now, conceiving them in many respects more
disproportionable to the present Condition of Affairs
than when they were formerly presented unto Him;
as being destructive to the many principal Interests of
the Army, and of all those whose Affections concur
"And His Majesty having seen the Proposals of the
Army to the Commissioners from His Two Houses residing with them, and with them to be treated on, in
order to the clearing and securing of the Rights and
Liberties of the Kingdom, and the settling of a just
and lasting Peace; to which Proposals as He conceives
His Two Houses not to be Strangers, so He believes
they will think with Him, that they much more conduce to the Satisfaction of all Interests, and may be a
fitter Foundation for a lasting Peace, than the Propositions which at this Time are tendered unto Him. He
therefore propounds (as the best Way in His Judgement in order to a Peace) that His Two Houses would
instantly take into Consideration those Proposals, upon
which there may be a Personal Treaty with His Majesty, and upon such other Propositions as His Majesty shall make; hoping that the said Proposals may
be so moderated in the said Treaty, as to render them
the more capable of His Majesty's full Concessions,
wherein He resolves to give full Satisfaction to His
People for whatsoever shall concern the settling of
the Protestant Profession, with Liberty to tender Consciences, and the securing of the Laws, Liberties, and
Properties of all His Subjects, and the just Privileges
of Parliament, for the future; and likewise, by His
present Deportment in this Treaty, He will make all
the World clearly judge of His Intentions in Matters
of future Government; in which Treaty His Majesty
will be well pleased (if it be thought fit) that Commissioners from the Army, whose the Proposals are,
may likewise be admitted.
"His Majesty therefore conjures His Two Houses of
Parliament, by the Duty they owe to God and His
Majesty their King, and by the Bowels of Compassion
they have to their Fellow Subjects, both for Relief
of their present Sufferings and to prevent future
Miseries, that they will forthwith accept of this His
Majesty's Offer, whereby the joyful News of Peace
may be restored to this distressed Kingdom. And for
what concerns the Kingdom of Scotland, mentioned
in the Propositions, His Majesty will very willingly
treat upon those Particulars with the Scottch Commissioners; and doubts not but to give reasonable Satisfaction to that His Kingdom.
"At Hampton Court, the 9th Day of Sept'r, 1647.
"For the Speaker of the Lords House pro
Tempore; to be communicated unto the
Lords and Commons in the Parliament of
England at Westm'r, and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland."
Holden's Affidavit, that Dickenson slighted the Order of this House, about the Privilege of Cambridge University.
"14 Septembris, 1647.
"John Houlden, of Cambridge, Stationer, aged Fortyeight Years, saith and deposeth, That he saw the
Order of the Right Honourable House of Lords delivered unto the Mayor and Bailiffs of Cambridge.
Notwithstanding their Lordships did therein order,
That the University of Cambridge should remain in
Possession of all such Rights, Liberties, and Privileges,
which they formerly enjoyed, by their Charters,
Customs, or otherwise, before the Beginning of this
Parliament; yet, since the Delivery of the said Order, the Liberties and Privileges of the University
have been infringed and violated, by the Officers of
the Town of Cambridge; and in particular by one
Henry Dickinson One of the present Bailiffs of the
Town, and John Bullein employed under him; who,
when this Deponent came unto him, together with
another Officer of the University, and shewed him
the said Order of the Lords, answered, "That he
did not care for the said Order of the Lords;" and
proceeded, in actual Contempt thereof, to the manifest
Infringement of the University Rights and Privileges.
"Jur. 14 Septembris, 1647.
Hallett to be instituted to Cheddington.
Ordered, That Doctor Aylett do give Institution
and Induction unto Thomas Hallett Clerk, to the Rectory of Cheddington, in the County of Dorsett, void
by the Death of the late Incumbent; salvo Jure cujuscunque; he taking the National League and Covenant,
and producing his Presentation thereunto under the
Hand and Seal of Robert Owsley Gentleman, the lawful Patron.