House of Lords Journal Volume 9
28 October 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 28 October 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 499-502. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37147 Date accessed: 18 April 2014. Add to my bookshelf


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DIE Jovis, 28 die Octobris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Wilkinson.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Northumb.
Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Salisbury.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. La Warr.
Ds. North.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Wharton.

E. of Stamford excused.

Ordered, That the Earl of Stamford is excused for his not attending this House, as he was ordered, in regard of his ill Health.

Mad. Sabran, a Pass.

Ordered, That Madam Sabran shall be permitted to go into France, with Ten Horses, and Bag and Baggage; and the Concurrence of the House of Commons to be desired herein.

Ordered, That the Cause in the Writ of Error (fn. *) be argued, by Counsel on both Sides, on Monday Morning next.

King's Children to visit Him.

The Earl of Northumb. acquainting this House, "That the King's Children intend to wait upon the King at Hampton Court To-morrow, and to stay there till Monday next:"

The Lords think it fit that the House of Commons be acquainted with it, and likewise with the Desire of the said Earl of Northumb. "That the Houses will be pleased to afford him the Liberty to acquaint the Houses whensoever the King shall desire His Children's coming to Him."

Report of the Conference about the Propositions.

The Speaker reported the Essect of the Conference with the House of Commons on Tuesday last; which was, "That whereas their Lordships sent down to them divers Propositions, to be sent to the King, they have agreed to divers of them as they were sent down, without any Alterations; some they have agreed to with some Alterations; some they have absolutely laid aside; and have presented some new ones which were in Agitation before: And they desired, that if their Lordships do agree to the Propositions, that then a Committee of both Houses may be appointed, to consider of the Manner of sending them, and some other Things incident thereunto.

"The Propositions to which they (fn. †) have agreed to are these:

"1. Concerning the Treaties. (Here enter them.)
2. Abolishing of Bishops.
3. Cessation of Ireland.
4. Great Seal.
5. Militia.
6. Oaths and Declarations.
7. Raising of Monies.
8. Titles of Honour.
9. Abolishing of Bishops, and Sale of their Lands.

Then the Proposition concerning the Court of Wards, was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

The Proposition for Restitution of Well-affected to their Places, was read, and Agreed to. (Here enter it.)

The Proposition, as it came now from the House of Commons, concerning Religion, was read; and Ordered to be taken into Consideration To-morrow Morning.

The Proposition concerning Delinquents, as it came now from the House of Commons, was read,

And the Question being put, "Whether to agree to these Votes, as they came from the House of Commons, concerning Delinquents?"

It was Resolved in the Negative.

Croker versus Wise & al.

Upon reading the Petition of Henry Croker Esquire, against Mr. Wise: It is Ordered, That the said Mr. Wise and Mr. Jackeman shall Personally appear before this House on Monday next, and bring in the Writings mentioned in the Petition of Mr. Croker.

Message to the H. C. about the King's Children visiting Him;—Mad. Sabrans Pass;—and Lady Moore's Petition.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edw. Leech and Mr. Page:

To acquaint them with the Paper concerning the King's Children going to the King.

2. To desire their Concurrence, that Madam Sabran may have a Pass, for herself and her Retinue, and Ten Horses, with Bag and Baggage, to go into France.

3. To put them in Mind of the Lady Moore's Petition.

Propositions for Peace:

The Question being put, "Whether to adhere to the Proposition sent down to the House of Commons concerning Delinquents?"

It was Resolved in the Affirmative.

Next, the Proposition for Sale of the Lands of Deans and Chapters, was read, and Agreed to.

(Here enter it.)

The Proposition now brought from the House of Commons, for paying the Arrears due to the Army, was read.

Respited till To-morrow.

Committee to consider of the Manner of presenting them:

Lords Committees appointed by the House, to join with a Committee of the House of Commons, to consider of the Manner of presenting the Propositions to the King, and all other Things incident thereunto, and to put them into such a Form as they are to be presented unto His Majesty; and to make Report thereof:

E. Northumberland.
E. Kent.
E. Pembrooke.
E. Salisbury.
E. Manchester.
E. Mulgrave.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
L. La Warr.
L. Dacres.
L. Wharton.
L. Grey.
L. Howard.

Their Lordships, or any Five of them, to meet the 29th of this Instant October, at Nine in the Morning; and to adjourn themselves from Time to Time: Their Meeting to be in the Prince's Lodgings.

Conference to be had about them.

Ordered, That, at a Conference with the House of Commons, they be made acquainted what this House hath agreed unto of the Propositions, and what the Lords do not agree unto: and that there is a Committee appointed of Twelve, the Quorum Five, to go on upon the Things so agreed; and to put them into such a Form as they are to be presented to His Majesty.

Propositions to the King, for Peace.

"Treaties:

Concerning Treaties.

"That an Act of Parliament shall be passed, declaring the King's Approbation of the Making of the Treaties between the Kingdoms of England and Scotland; videlicet, the large Treaty, the late Treaty for the coming in of the Scotts Army into England, and settling the Garrison of Town of Barwick, and the Treaty concerning Ireland, of the 6th of August, 1642; and that Algernon Earl of Northumberland, Henry Earl of Kent, John Earl of Rutland, Phillip Earl of Pembrooke & Mountgom'y, William Earl of Salisbury, Robert Earl of Warwick, Edward Earl of Manchester, Edmund Earl of Mulgrave, Henry Earl of Stamford, William Lord Viscount Say & Seale, Charles Lord Lawarr, Francis Lord Dacres, Phillip Lord Wharton, Dudly Lord North, William Lord Grey, Edward Lord Howard of Escrick, Thomas Lord Bruce, Ferdinando Lord Fairefax, Mr. Nathaniell Fiennes, Sir William Armyne, Sir Henry Vane Senior, Mr. William Pierrepont, Sir Edward Aiscough, Sir William Strickland, Sir Arthur Hesilrigg, Sir John Fenwick, Sir William Brereton, Sir Thomas Widdrington, Mr. Toll, Mr. Gilbert Millington, Sir William Constable, Sir John Wray, Sir Henry Vane Junior, Mr. Henry Darby, Oliver St. John Esquire His Majesty's Solicitor General, Mr. Alexand'r Rigby, Mr. Cornelius Holland, Mr. Samuell Vassall, Mr. Peregrine Pelham, Mr. Henry Martin, Mr. Alderman Hoyle, Mr. John Blackston, Mr. Serjeant Wyld, Mr. Richard Barwis, Sir Anthony Irby, Mr. Ashurst, Mr. Bellingham, and Mr. Tolson, Mr. George Fennick, Mr. Henry Lawrence, and Mr. Francis Allen, or any Nine of them, whereof Three of the House of Peers and Six of the House of Commons to be present, shall be the Commissioners for the Kingdom of England, for (fn. *) Conservation of the Peace between the Two Kingdoms, to act according to the Powers in that Behalf expressed in the Articles of the large Treaty, and not otherwise.

Concerning abolishing Bishops.

"That an Act of Parliament be passed, for the utter abolishing and taking away of all Archbishops, Bishops, their Chancellors and Commissaries, Deans and Sub-deans, Deans and Chapters, Archdeacons, Canons, and Prebendaries; and all Chanters, Chancellors, Treasurers, Sub-treasurers, Succentors, and Sacrists, and all Vicars Choral and Choristers, Old Vicars and New Vicars of any Cathedral or Collegiate Church, and all other their Under Officers, out of the Church of England, and Dominion of Wales, and out of the Church of (fn. †) England.

Cessation of Ireland.

"That an Act of Parliament be passed, to declare and make void the Cessation of Ireland, and all Treaties and Conclusions of Peace, or any Articles thereupon, with the Rebels, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament; and to settle the Prosecution of the War of Ireland in both Houses of the Parliament of England, to be managed by them in such Sort, and by such Ways and Means, as they shall think fit and appoint; and the King to assist, and to do no Act to discountenance or molest them therein.

Great Seal.

"That all Grants, Commissions, Presentations, Writs, Process, Proceedings, and other Things, passed under the Great Seal of England in the Custody of the Lords and others Commissioners appointed by both Houses of Parliament for the Custody thereof, be, and by Act of Parliament with the Royal Assent shall be, declared and enacted to be of like full Force, to all Intents and Purposes, as the same or like Grants, Commissions, Presentations, Writs, Process, Proceedings, and other Things, under any Great Seal of England, in any Time heretofore, were or have been; and that, for Time to come, the said Great Seal, now remaining in Custody of the Commissioners; continue and be used for the Great Seal of England; and that all Grants, Commissions, Presentations, Writs, Process, Proceedings, and other Things whatsoever, passed under or by any Authority of any other Great Seal, since the Two and Twentieth Day of May, 1642, or hereafter to be passed, be invalid, and of no Effect, to all Intents and Purposes, except such Writs, Process, and Commissions, as, being passed under any other Great Seal than the said Great Seal in the Custody of the Commissioners aforesaid, on or after the said 22th Day of May, and before the 28th Day of November, 1643, were afterwards proceeded upon, returned into, or put in Ure in, any the King's Courts at Westm'r; and except the Grant to Mr. Justice Bacon, to be One of the Justices of the King's Bench; and except all Acts and Proceedings by virtue of any such Commissions of Gaol Delivery, Assize, and Nisi Prius, or Oyer and Terminer, passed under any other Great Seal than the Seal aforesaid, in Custody of the said Commissioners, before the First of October, 1642; and that all Grants of Offices, Lands, Tenements, or Hereditaments, made or passed under the Great Seal of Ireland, unto any Person, or Persons, Bodies Politic or Corporate, since the Cessation made in Ireland, the 15th Day of September, 1643, shall be null and void; and that all Honours and Titles conferred upon any Person or Persons in the said Kingdom of Ireland, since the said Cessation, shall be null and void.

Militia, and raising Forces by Sea and Land.

"That the Lords and Commons in the Parliament of England assembled shall, during the Space of Twenty Years, from the First of November, 1640, arm, train, and discipline, or cause to be armed, trained, and disciplined, all the Forces of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and Dominion of Wales, the Isles of Guernesey and Jersey, and the Town of Barwick upon Tweed, already raised, both for Sea and Land Service, and shall appoint all Commanders and Officers for the said Forces; and shall, from Time to Time, during the said Space of Twenty Years, raise, levy, arm, train, and discipline, or cause to be raised, levied, armed, trained, and disciplined, any other Forces, for Land and Sea Service, in the Kingdoms, Dominions, and Places aforesaid, as in their Judgements they shall, from Time to Time, during the said Space of Twenty Years, think fit and appoint; and shall, from Time to Time, appoint all Commanders and Officers for the said Forces, or remove them, as they shall see Cause; and shall likewise nominate, appoint, place, or displace, as they shall see Cause, all Commanders and Officers, within the several Garrisons, Forts, and Places of Strength, as shall be within the Kingdoms of England, Ireland, and Dominion of Wales, the Isles of Guernesey and Jersey, and Town of Berwick upon Tweede; and that neither the King, His Heirs or Successors, nor any other but such as shall act by the Authority or Approbation of the said Lords and Commons, shall, during the said Space of Twenty Years, exercise any of the Powers aforesaid.

"That Monies be raised and levied, for the Maintenance and Use of the said Forces for Land Service, and of the Navy and Forces for Sea Service, in such Sort, and by such Ways and Means, as the said Lords and Commons shall, from Time to Time, during the said Space of Twenty Years, think fit and appoint, and not otherwise.

That all the said Forces, both for Land and Sea Service, so raised or levied, or to be raised or levied, and also the Admiralty and Navy, shall, from Time to Time, during the said Space of Twenty Years, be employed, managed, ordered, and disposed, by the said Lords and Commons, in such Sort, and by such Ways and Means, as they shall think fit and appoint, and not otherwise.

"And the said Lords and Commons, during the said Space of Twenty Years, shall have Power, in such Sort, and by such Ways and Means, as they shall think fit and appoint,

"1. To suppress all Forces raised, or to be raised, without Authority and Consent of the said Lords and Commons, to the Disturbance of the Public Peace of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, and Dominion of Wales, the Isles of Guernesey and Jersey, and the Town of Berwick upon Tweede, or any of them.

"2. To suppress any Foreign Forces, who shall invade, or endeavour to invade, the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, Dominion of Wales, the Isles of Guernesey and Jersey, and the Town of Berwicke upon Tweede, or any of them.

"3. To join such Forces of the Kingdom of England with the Forces of the Kingdom of Scotland, as the said Lords and Commons shall, from Time to Time, during the said Space of Twenty Years, judge fit and necessary, to resist all Foreign Invasions; and to suppress any Forces raised, or to be raised, against or within either of the said Kingdoms, to the Disturbance of the Public Peace of the said Kingdoms, or any of them, by any Authority under the Great Seal, or other Warrant whatsoever, without Consent of the said Lords and Commons of the Parliament, and the Parliament or the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland, respectively; and that no Forces of either Kingdom shall go into, or continue in, the other Kingdom, without the Advice and Desire of the said Lords and Commons of the Parliament of England, and the Parliament of the Kingdom of Scotland, or such as shall be by them appointed for that Purpose.

"And that, after the Expiration of the said Twenty Years, neither the King, His Heirs or Successors, or any Person or Persons by Colour or Pretence of any Commission, Power, Deputation, or Authority, to be derived from the King, His Heirs or Successors, or any of them, shall raise, arm, train, discipline, employ, order, manage, disband, or dispose, any of the Forces, by Sea or Land, of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, the Dominion of Wales, Isles of Guernesey and Jersey, and the Town of Berwick upon Tweed, nor exercise any of the said Powers or Authorities in the precedent Articles mentioned and expressed to be during the said Space of Twenty Years in the said Lords and Commons; nor do any Act or Thing concerning the Execution of the said Powers or Authorities, or any of them, without the Consent of the said Lords and Commons first had and obtained.

"That, after the Expiration of the said Twenty Years, in all Cases wherein the Lords and Commons shall declare the Safety of the Kingdom to be concerned, and shall thereupon pass any Bill or Bills, for the raising, arming, training, disciplining, employing, managing, ordering, or disposing of the Forces, by Sea or Land, of the Kingdoms of England and Ireland, the Dominion of Wales, Isles of Guernsey and Jersey, and the Town of Berwick upon Tweed, or of any Part of the said Forces, or concerning the Admiralty and Navy, or concerning the levying of Monies, for the Raising, Maintenance, or Use, of the said Forces for Land Service, or of the Navy and Forces for Sea Service, or of any Part of them; and if that the Royal Assent to such Bill or Bills shall not be given in the House of Peers within such Time after the passing thereof by both Houses of Parliament as the said Houses shall judge fit and convenient, that then such Bill or Bills, so passed by the said Lords and Commons as aforesaid, and to which the Royal Assent shall not be given as is herein before expressed, shall nevertheless, after Declaration of the said Lords and Commons made in that Behalf, have the Force and Strength of an Act or Acts of Parliament, and shall be as valid to all Intents and Purposes as if the Royal Assent had been given thereunto.

"Provided, That nothing herein before contained shall extend to the taking away of the ordinary legal Power of Sheriffs, Justices of Peace, Mayors, Bailiffs, Coroners, Constables, Headboroughs, or other Officers of Justice, not being Military Officers, concerning the Administration of Justice; so as neither the said Sheriffs, Justices of Peace, Mayors, Bailiffs, Coroners, Constables, Headboroughs, and other Officers, nor any of them, do levy, conduct, employ, or command, any Forces whatsoever, by Colour or Pretence of any Commission of Array, or extraordinary Command from His Majesty, His Heirs or Successors, without the Consent of the said Lords and Commons.

"And if any Persons shall be gathered and assembled together, in Warlike Manner, or otherwise, to the Number of Thirty Persons, and shall not forthwith disband themselves, being required thereto by the said Lords and Commons; or Command from them, or any by them especially authorized for that Purpose; then such Person or Persons, not so disbanding themselves, shall be guilty and incur the Pains of High Treason, being first declared guilty of such Offence by the said Lords and Commons; any Commission under the Great Seal, or other Warrant to the contrary, notwithstanding: And he or they that shall offend herein to be incapable of any Pardon from His Majesty, His Heirs or Successors; and their Estates shall be disposed as the said Lords and Commons shall think fit, and not otherwise.

"Provided, That the City of London shall have and enjoy all their Rights, Liberties, and Franchises, Customs, and Usages, in the Raising and Employing the Forces of that City, for the Defence thereof, in as full and ample Manner, to all Intents and Purposes, as they have, or might have, used or enjoyed the same, at any Time before the (fn. *) settling of this present Parliament; to the End that City may be fully assured, it is not the Intention of the Parliament to take from them any Privileges or Immunities, in raising or disposing of their Forces, which they have, or might have, used or enjoyed heretofore.

Oaths and Declarations.

"Whereas both Houses of the Parliament of England have been necessitated to undertake a War, in their just and lawful Defence; (fn. *) that all Oaths, Declarations, and Proclamations, heretofore had, or hereafter to be had or made, against both or either of the Houses, of the Parliament of England, or Committees flowing from the Parliament, or their Ordinances and Proceedings, or against any for adhering unto them, or for doing or executing any Office; Place, or Charge, by any Authority derived from them, and all Judgements, Indictments, Outlawries, Attainders, and Inquisitions, in any the said Causes, and all Grants thereupon made or had, or to be made or had, be declared null, suppressed, and forbidden: And this to be publicly declared, in all Parish Churches and all other Places needful.

"That an Act of Parliament be passed for Indemnity, agreeable to the two Ordinances of both Houses already passed for that Purpose.

Raising Monies.

"That the King do give His Royal Assent to such Act or Acts, for raising of Monies, for the Payment and Satisfying of the Public Debts of the Kingdom, and other Public Uses, as shall hereafter be agreed on by both Houses of Parliament; and that, if the King do not give His Assent thereunto, then, it being done by both Houses of Parliament, the same shall be as valid to all Intents and Purposes as if the Royal Assent had been given thereunto.

Titles of Honour, since the Great Seal was carried to the King.

"That, by Act of Parliament, all Peers made since the Day that Edward Lord Litleton, then Lord Keeper of the Great Seal, deserted the Parliament, and that the said Great Seal was surreptitiously conveyed away from the Parliament, being the 21th Day of May, 1642, and who shall be hereafter made, shall not sit or vote in the Parliament of England, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament; and that all Honour and Title conferred on any, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament, since the 20th of May, 1642, being the Day that both Houses declared, "That the King, seduced by evil Counsel, intended to raise War against the Parliament," be declared null and void.

Abolishing Bishops, and Sale of their Lands.

"That the several Ordinances, the one intituled, "An Ordinance of Parliament for abolishing of Archbishops and Bishops, within the Kingdom of England and Dominion of Wales, and for settling of their Lands and Possessions upon Trustees, for the Use of the Commonwealth;" the other intituled, "An Ordinance of the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, for appointing the Sale of Bishops Lands, for the Use of the Commonwealth," be confirmed by Act of Parliament.

Taking away the Court of Wards.

"That His Majesty be desired to give His Assent to an Act of Parliament, for the taking away of the Court of Wards and Liveries, and of all Wardships, Liveries, Primer Seisins, and Ouster le Maines, and of all other Charges incident unto, or arising for or by reason of, any Wardships, Liveries, Primer Seisins, or Ouster le Maines, and of all Tenures of Homage, Fines, Licences, Seizures, and Pardons for Alienation, and of all other Charges incident or belonging thereunto, or for or by reason thereof, from the 24th Day of February, which was in the Year of our Lord God 1645; and that all Tenures by Knight Service, Grand Serjeanty, Petty Serjeanty, or Soccage in Capite, either of His Majesty, or of any other Person or Persons, may be, from the Time aforesaid, turned into Free and Common Soccage; and that the Sum of Fifty Thousand Pounds per Annum be granted to the King, by Way of Recompence.

Restitution of Persons to their Places who have adhered to the Parliament.

"Resolved, &c.

"That the Matter of this Proposition following shall be sent to the King, for His Consent; (videlicet,)

"That the Members of both Houses of Parliament, or others who have adhered to the Parliament, and have been put out by the King of any Place or Office, Pension or Benefit, be restored thereunto.

"Resolved, &c.

"That the Matters that shall be now sent to the King shall be sent by Way of Proposition.

Sale of Chapter Lands.

"Resolved, &c.

"That a Proposition be prepared to be now sent to the King, to desire Him to give His Consent to such Act or Acts as shall be tendered unto Him by both Houses of Parliament, for the Sale of the Lands of Deans, Deans and Chapters, &c. and for the Disposal thereof in such Manner as both Houses shall think fit."

Pass for Mons. Ballieure, the French Ambassador, to return Home.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That Mr. Ballieure, Lord Ambassador Extraordinary (fn. *) to the French King, with his whole Retinue, be permitted to pass to any Port of this Kingdom, to be transported into France; his Lordship taking with him Thirty-nine Horses or Nags, and Four Mares, Custom and Impost-free, Ten Couple of Hounds, as also his Lordship's Bag and Baggage, and Necessaries for the Journey, without the Lett, Disturbance, Molestation, or Hindrance, of any Person or Persons whatsoever: And further it is Ordered, That all Civility and Respect be given unto the said Lord Ambassador, and to all his Followers, as is due to a Person of such Degree and Quality: And herein Obedience is to be given, as the contrary will be answered.

"To all in Command under the Parliament, both by Sea and Land; and to all Commissioners, Comptrollers, and other Officers, belonging to the Customs; and to all other Person and Persons whatsoever."

Wood to be instituted to Aston Somervile.

Ordered, That Doctor Aylett give Institution and Induction unto William Wood Clerk, to the Rectory of Aston Somervile, in the County of Gloucester, void by the Resignation of the last Incumbent; salvo Jure cujuscunque; he taking the National League and Covenant: Presentation under the Great Seal.

Mad. Sabran, a Pass, to return to France.

"Ordered, by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament, That Madam Sabran shall be permitted to go, with her own Company, to any Port of this Kingdom, to embark themselves for France, taking with them Ten Horses, Bag and Baggage, Custom and Impost-free, without the Lett or Hindrance of any Person whatsoever: And this to be a sufficient Warrant in that Behalf.

"To all in Command under the Parliament; and to all Commissioners, &c."

Footnotes

* Sic.
Origin. are.
* Origin. Conversation.
Sic.
* Sic.
* Sic.