House of Lords Journal Volume 9
22 November 1647

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1767-1830

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 9: 22 November 1647', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 9: 1646 (1767-1830), pp. 537-540. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37168 Date accessed: 22 August 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, 22 die Novembris.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Strickland.

Domini præsentes fuerunt

Comes Manchester, Speaker.

Comes Kent.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Salisbury.
Comes Denbigh.
Comes Mulgrave.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Comes Stamford.
Ds. Robertes.
Ds. La Warr.
Ds. Grey.
Ds. Howard.
Ds. North.
Ds. Wharton.

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax and Col. Hammond.

A Letter from the General, was read. (Here enter them.)
A Letter from Colonel Rob't Hamond, was read.

Lynne and Chiselden, about the Church of Dean.

Ordered, That, Thursday Sevennight, this House will hear the Cause between Mr. Lynn and Mr. Chesilden, concerning the Right of the Patronage of the Church of Dene, in the County of North'ton.

Stanleys, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mr. James Stanley and Mr. Charles Stanley shall have a Pass, with Wm. Frith. their Governor, and Thomas Poulton their Servant, to pass into France, carrying with them Twenty Pounds for their Journey Charges.

Answer to the Scots Commissioners Letter, pressing a Personal Treaty with the King.

The Scotts Commissioners Letter, of the 17th of this Instant November, was again read.

And after Debate, these Lords following were appointed to draw up a Letter, in Answer to it, according to the Sense of the House upon the Debate; and to report the same to the House:

Comes Northumb.
Comes Manchester.
Comes Mulgrave.
Comes Denbigh.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Ds. Grey.

Any Two; to meet presently.

The said Committee reported the Draught of a Letter; which was read, and approved of, and (fn. *)

Message from the H. C. with a List of the King's Attendants;—to expedite the Ordinance for Tonnage and Poundage;—and to press the Scots Commissioners for an Answer to the Propositions.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Walter Earle Knight, &c.

1. To present to their Lordships a List of the Persons Names that are to be sent to attend the King, wherein their Lordships Concurrence is desired, that so they may be sent down.

Agreed to; and Mr. Maxwell, Mr. Maull, and Captain Middleton, to be added.

2. To desire their Lordships to give Expedition in the Ordinance concerning Tonnage and Poundage.

3. To desire their Lordships to give Order to their Members that are of the Committee of both Kingdoms, to meet this Afternoon, to press the Scotts Commissioners for a positive Answer concerning the Propositions to be sent to the King; and they have given their Members of that Committee (fn. *) to meet accordingly.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will take this Message into Consideration, and send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from the Common Council, about bringing in the Arrears of the Army.

A Message was delivered to this House, by Alderman Foulke and others, from the Common Council of the City of London, and afterwards read, in a Paper, as follows. (Here enter it.)

They withdrew.

And the House, upon Consideration, gave them this Answer:

Answer to them.

"That the Lords do expect that all their Endeavours be used, for the speedy raising this Money, to prevent further Inconveniencies."

Message to the H. C. with the Letter to the Scots Commissioners;—with Ordinances;—for the Scots Commissioners to be pressed for an Answer to the Propositions.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Doctor Aylett and the Clerk of the Crown:

1. To desire their Concurrence in the Letter to be sent to the Scotts Commissioners.

2. To desire their Concurrence in the Ordinance concerning the making Mr. Cardell Minister of Alhollowes, in Lumbard Street.

3. To desire their Concurrence in the Ordinance concerning an Augmentation for the Minister of Banbury.

4. To desire their Concurrence in the Ordinance for Trade, with an Alteration.

5. To let them know, that this House hath appointed their Members of the Committee of both Kingdoms to meet this Afternoon, and press the Scotch Commissioners for a positive Answer concerning the Propositions.

Rich to attend as an Assistant.

Ordered, That Mr. Rich, One of the Masters of the Chancery, shall have Notice, that he attend this House, as an Assistant.

Order for 900 l. for indigent Persons.

An Order concerning Nine Hundred Pounds to be paid to Mr. Pococke, &c. was read, and Agreed to; and Ordered to be sent to the House of Commons, for their Concurrence.

Letter from Sir T. Fairfax, about Col. Hammond not sending up Ashburnham, &c.; and that it will be necessary to send an additional Force into the Isle of Wight.

"For the Right Honourable Edward Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"By the same Messenger that brings Letters to your Lordship and the Speaker of the House of Commons from Colonel Hamond, I received others from him; by which I perceive that he hath not as yet sent up those Gentlemen that came to him from the King, and were sent for by the Parliament. I do not know how far his Letters to yourself, or the Speaker of the House of Commons, may concern that Business; nor what Satisfaction they may give the Houses therein: And therefore I have written unto him, to send up those Gentlemen with all convenient Speed; which I am confident he will accordingly do, unless the Houses find some such Satisfaction in his Letters as to signify their Pleasures to him for their Stay. The King's being in the Isle of Wight (whilst the Houses think fit He should be continued there) will necessarily require some Strength to be sent over to Colonel Hammond, both for the better securing of the King's Person, and for strengthening the Island, to prevent any Confluence of such Persons there as may breed Danger to the Kingdom; for which, in my Opinion, the Island and the King's being in it yield too great Opportunity, if not prevented by a sufficient Strength, to secure the Castles and Landingplaces that are therein. I remain

Windsor, the (fn. *) 24th Nov. 1647.

"Your Lordship's
Most humble Servant,
T. Fairefax."

Letter from Colonel Hammond, desiring he may not be obliged to send up Ashburnham, Legge, and Sir J. Berkley, as it was by their Advice the King came to the Isle of Wight, rather than go out of the Kingdom; and that he has received, and will obey, his Instructions, &c.

"For the Right Honourable the Earl of Manchester, Speaker of the House of Peers pro Tempore.

"My Lord,

"This Morning, I received by the Hands of a Messenger from the General, a Paper of Votes and Resolutions of both Houses of Parliament, bearing Date, Die Martis, 16 Nov. 1647, relating to the Security of His Majesty's Person; which, although they came not to me with Directions from the Houses, yet I thought it my Duty to take Notice of them (by what Hand soever received) as their Commands, and accordingly to see them put in Execution. As concerning that Vote not permitting such as have been in Arms or assisted against the Parliament to come into this Island, it tending much to the Security of His Majesty's Person, and the Preserving the Peace of the Island, I have (as I acquainted your Lordship in my last Letters, before I received these Votes) given Orders to that Effect (which are carefully put in Execution), commanding all Masters of Boats belonging to Hampsheir and this Island, that they land neither Persons nor Goods in any Part of this Island, save only at Yarmouth Castle, Cowes Castle, and Ryde, at which Place I have also appointed a Guard, to whom Order is given (as to the other Two Castles) for the examining of all Persons so landing, and to detain and secure any that cannot give a very good Account of themselves and their Business. As concerning your Lordships other Votes (now they are come to my Hands), I shall with the best of my Endeavours see them put in Execution. My Lord, Yesterday there came to me an Officer belonging to the Serjeant of the House of Commons, with particular Warrants for the apprehending and bringing up in safe Custody the Bodies of Mr. Jo'n Ashburnham, Mr. William Legg, and Sir John Berckley, who came hither with the King, the said Warrants requiring my Assistance to him in the Execution of them; but with no Order to me from either or both Houses to that Purpose: And finding the Matter to be of very great Importance, I have deferred the Messenger, to forbear the Execution of his said Warrants, till I have given the Houses to understand, that, in case the said Warrant should be served and put in Execution, it would be impossible for me to answer the Expectation and Commands of Parliament, in preserving the Person of the King in Security, to be disposed by them, unless I should keep Him close Prisoner; which is a Business of that Nature, that it is neither fit nor safe for me to do, especially of myself.

"The Ground from whence I gather this is plainly thus: The King hath declared Himself to me, That He came from Hampton Court for no other Cause, but for the Preservation of His Person, which was (as He apprehended) in such Danger that He could not with Safety continue longer there; that, if He could have been there with Safety, He would not have departed thence, nor from the Army; and that He chose this Place rather than any other (when He was at Liberty to have gone whither He pleased), that He might still continue under the Protection of the Army (myself being a Member thereof), and that He might have Conveniency of free Intercourse between Himself and the Parliament, for the Settlement of a general Peace, to which He professes greater Inclinations and Desires than ever, and that there shall be nothing wanting on His Part that may be reasonably expected from Him. He further saith, That, in case these Gentlemen be taken from Him, and punished as Evil-doers, for counselling Him not to go out of the Kingdom, but rather to come to the Place where He now is, for the Ends aforesaid, and for their endeavouring accordingly in attending Him hither, He cannot but Himself expect to be dealt with accordingly, His Case being the same: And from such Apprehensions, your Lordships may easily judge what He will do, by His former Actings; He having that Liberty that hath ever been allowed Him since He hath been disposed of by the Parliament. My Lord, I shall further let you know, that, besides the Care I shall always have of these Gentlemen, they have engaged their Honours not to depart from me; so that I am most consident of their Security. And truly, were not their Ends the same with their Pretences (in relation to the Peace of this Kingdom), I am consident they would never have advised nor conducted the King to this Place. Besides, were they at this Time removed from the King, there would be none left for His Attendance; which (besides the Offence) how great the Inconvenience would be to Him, your Lordship cannot be ignorant. And further give me Leave to add (if so unworthy a Servant of your Lordships as I am, and that which concerns my Honour, were at all worthy your Consideration), whether it would not much reflect upon me, in case these Gentlemen should be thus removed hence; the King and themselves having freely thrown themselves upon me for Safety, upon Confidence (as they please to say) of my Honour and Honesty, and the Satisfaction they expected it would have given the Parliament, the King being necessitated to remove. My Lord, My Duty to you and the Kingdom (whose Good and Peace I most desire, and shall most faithfully endeavour) calls for this Account, which (with myself and these Gentlemen) I leave to your Lordship's Confideration; with this Conclusion, that whatever is commanded by Authority, specially that of the Parliament, though never so, contrary to my Sense or Honour, shall never be disobeyed by,

Carrisbrooke Castle, Nov. 19th, 1647.

"My Lord,
Your Lordship's
Most faithful and humble Servant,
Ro. Hammond.

"My Lord, Since the Conclusion of my Letter, I received the Letter and Votes of both Houses, of the 16th present, which shall be carefully put in Execution."

Message from the Common Council, thanking the Houses, for preventing Part of the Army quartering in the City;—and that they will get in the Assessments for their Arrears, as fast as possible.

"Warner, Mayor.

"Commune Concilium tent. in Camera Guihald, Civitat. London. Die Sabbati, scilicet, Vicesimo Die Novembris, 1647, Annoque Regis Caroli Angl. &c. Vicesimo tertio.

"At this Common Council was read a Letter, dated at Kingston, the 19th Instant, directed unto this Court, from his Excellency Sir Thomas Fairefax, whereby Intimation is given (amongst other Things) that, for the speedy Levying both of the Arrears due to the Army, and Penalties for Non-payment, according to the Ordinances of Parliament for that Purpose, his Excellency, with the Advice of his Council of War, hath appointed Colonel Hewson, with a Thousand Foot, to come as upon this Day to quarter in the City, and within the late Lines of Communication, in such Places as he finds fittest, until this Service be accomplished: And Notice being given unto this Court, That the Right Honourable the Earl of Northumberland, and divers other Honourable Persons of the House of Peers, and certain Members of the Honourable House of Commons, were in the Council Chamber of The Guildhall, and desired to speak with some of the Members of this Court; and divers of them were sent forth, namely, Sir John Wollaston, Mr. Alderman Fowke, Mr. Alderman Gibbs, Mr. Eastwick, Colonel Player; Colonel Gower, Colonel Bellamy, and others: And after their Return unto this Court, Mr. Alderman Fowke declared, That the said Lords and Commons had communicated unto them a Letter, agreeing in Substance with that received from his Excellency; and whereas the said Thousand Foot were intended to be quartered this Day as aforesaid, that the Houses, out of their Care and tender Regard of this City, had taken Course to prevent the same; wishing this City to take it to Heart as a Matter of great Concernment, and provide that the Army may speedily receive Satisfaction for their Arrears.

"Whereupon, after some Debate, it was thought fit, and Resolved,

"1. That this Court's Acknowledgement of the great Favour received, in the timely Diversion of the coming in of the said Forces, be with all humble Thanks returned unto both Houses of Parliament.

"2. That it be humbly presented unto the Parliament, That the Members of this Court will use their best Endeavours to further the speedy getting in of the Monies in Arrear to the Army, upon the several Ordinances, from the Inhabitants of this City. And that it is humbly propounded and desired by this Court (as the best Way and Means to have this Service speedily compleated), that the Parliament will be pleased to dispense with the Penalties imposed by the last Ordinance of Parliament, as to such Collectors who have done and shall do their utmost Diligence, saving in the Matter of Distress; for that it appears that these Penalties have made Collectors fearful and unwilling to take upon them the Collection of the last Assessment, to the great Retardation thereof.

"3. That it is the humble Desire of this Court, That the Parliament will be further pleased to grant Power unto the Committee of the Army, to sit within this City, and to send for the Deputies and Common Council Men of the several Wards, and the Collectors of the several Assessments within the same, and whom else the said Committee shall think fit, for their Assistance and Advice, for the better Removal of all Obstructions to the Collection of the said Assessments, and the Furtherance and better carrying on of this Work; and also that some such Persons as were formerly employed by the Committee at Habberdash'rs Hall may be appointed Assistants to the said Collectors, and to distrain (when Cause requires) for Arrears of Assessments due to the Army.

"4. That the said Aldermen and Commoners shall forthwith communicate this Result of this Court unto the said Members of both Houses staying in the Council Chamber; and on Monday Morning shall present the same unto both Houses of Parliament.

"Michel."

Kent to be instituted to Beachampton;

Ordered, That Dr. Aylett give Institution and Induction unto Will'm Kent Clerk, to the Rectory of Beachampton, in Com. Bucks, void by the Death of the last Incumbent; salvo, &c.; Symon Bennett Esquire, Patron.

and Gaming to Barnham Broom.

Ordered, That Dr. Aylett give Institution and Induction unto Nicholas Gaminge Batchelor in Divinity, to the Rectory of Barnham Broome, with the Chapel of Bixton annexed, in Com. Norff. void by Resignation of the late Incumbent; salvo Jure cujuscunque, &c.; Edward Chamberlaine Esquire, Patron.

Footnotes

* Sic.
* Sic.