House of Lords Journal Volume 6
8 May 1643

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History of Parliament Trust

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1767-1830

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35, 36, 37

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'House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 8 May 1643', Journal of the House of Lords: volume 6: 1643 (1767-1830), pp. 35-37. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=37240 Date accessed: 02 October 2014.


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DIE Lunæ, 8 Maii.

PRAYERS.

Earl of Manchester, Speaker.

Keeper of Windsor Park committed.

Ordered, That the Keeper of Windsor Park, sent for at the Complaint of Mr. Maxwell, shall be committed to Newgate, until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons on Saturday return with this Answer:

That they have delivered their Message to the House of Commons.

Sequestration of Shoreditch from Mr. Squire.

Ordered, That this House will hear Mr. Squire, Vicar of Shoreditch, concerning his Answer to the Charge in the Sequestration passed by this House, on Friday next; at which Time the Parishioners are likewise to attend this House.

The Speaker acquainted this House, "That Mr. Cary had brought him a Letter from the Lord Viscount Falkland;" which he read, as followeth:

Ld. Falkland's Letter, with a Message from the King, about the Bill for a Subscription to reduce the Irish Rebels.

"My Lord,

"I am commanded, by His Majesty, to convey to your Lordships His Majesty's inclosed Message to both Houses of Parliament, occasioned by a Bill delivered to His Majesty, from both Houses, by Sir Rob't Kinge, Mr. Jepson, and Mr. Hill; and, this done, I remain,

"My Lord,

"Your Lordship's

"Very humble Servant,

Oxford, 5th of May, 1643.

"Falkland."

Next, the Message was read. ( (fn. *) Here enter it.)

Message to the H. C. for Committees to consider of it.

The House Agreed, To communicate this Message to the House of Commons; and to desire that the Committee of both Houses may be appointed to consider of this Message, and meet this Afternoon; and that they may come neither prepossessed nor engaged, but deliver their Opinions to the Houses.

Message from the H. C. that Judge Mallet may be remanded to The Tower;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Denzell Holles, Esquire:

"That whereas Mr. Justice Mallett was formerly, as a dangerous Person, committed to The Tower, by the Committee for the Safety, consisting of Lords and Commons; and they having received Information, on Saturday last, that he is released, and permitted to be at his Chamber at Serjeants Inne: Hereupon the House of Commons, knowing him to be a dangerous Person, and One who hath some Power in the Western Parts, where the Waters are troubled already, whither if he should escape, he might do a great deal of Mischief; therefore the House of Commons were resolved, on Saturday, to come up to their Lordships, to desire that he might be remanded unto The Tower; but, because their Lordships were risen before they could come up, the House of Commons thought it fit to secure his Person until they could come up to their Lordships; and now they do desire that their Lordships would give Order that Mr. Justice Mallet may be remanded to The Tower of London.

and for a Conference about a Declaration concerning the Treaty.

"2. The House of Commons desires that their Lordships would give a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching a Declaration to be published concerning the Treaty with His Majesty."

Agreed, To give a present Conference.

Judge Mallet remanded to The Tower.

The Lords taking the Reasons of the House of Commons into Consideration, touching Mr. Justice Malett; Ordered, That Mr. Justice Mallett shall be presently remanded to The Tower of London, there to remain during the Pleasure of this House.

The Answer returned was:

Answer to the H. C.

That this House, having considered of the Reasons brought up now concerning Mr. Justice Mallett, do agree to them; and have Ordered, That Justice Mallett shall be remanded to The Tower of London.

Touching their Desire of a Conference, their Lordships will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference on the King's Message.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Aylett and Dr.

To desire a present Conference, touching a Message received from the King.

Countess of Rivers's Horses, taken away by Col. Marten, to be restored.

The House was informed, "That the Countess of Rivers hath had her Horses taken away this Day by Colonel Marten, though she is the Wife of a Peer, and hath a Protection from this House, and hath received great Losses:" Hereupon this House Ordered, That, at the next Conference, to let the House of Commons know the Particulars of the Business; and that their Lordships have Power themselves to restore these Horses, and to right themselves herein; but, in regard that Colonel Marten is One of the Members of the House of Commons, their Lordships (fn. *) do forbear to take any Course therein before they had acquainted them therewith; and desire them to take (fn. †) Order that Colonel Marten may restore the Horses.

Message to the H. C. for a Conference about it.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Dr. Bennett and Dr. Heath:

To desire that, at the next Conference, their Lordships may impart unto them some Things concerning the Countess of Rivers.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons returned this Answer:

Answer from thence.

That the House of Commons will give a present Conference, as is desired.

The Messengers return with this Answer from the House of Commons:

D°.

That (fn. ‡) they will hear what their Lordships will deliver at the next Conference, concerning the Countess of Rivers.

Committee to consider of the King's Message.

The Lords following were appointed Committees, to meet with a proportionable Number of the House of Commons, to consider of the King's Message read this Day:

Comes Holland.
Comes Northumb.
Comes Pembrooke.
Comes Sarum.
Comes Bedford.
Comes Clare.
Comes Bollingbrooke.
L. Viscount Conway.
L. Howard.
L. Lovelace.

Any Five, to meet this Afternoon, at Three a Clock.

The Lords went to the Conference; which being ended, the House was resumed.

Serjeant Whitfeild reported to be gone to the King;

The House was informed, "That there is a Man in Kente, that hath reported Mr. Serjeant Whitfeild is gone to the King, and forsaken the Parliament; upon this Rumour, his Tenants forbear to pay him any Rents, and his Estate is in Danger to be seized on:"

Delinquents sent for, who said so.

Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said Person should be sent for, to answer the same to this House.

Mrs. Jermy, a Pass.

Ordered, That Mrs. Jermy shall have a Pass, to come from Oxford to London, and to go from London into Suffolke.

King's Message, about the Bill for reducing the Irish Rebels.

"CHARLES R.

"His Majesty hath, with great Deliberation, considered and weighed a Bill lately presented to Him by Sir Robert King Knight, and William Jephson and Arthur Hill Esquires, from both Houses of Parliament, intituled, "An Act for the speedy Payment of Monies, subscribed towards the Reducing of the Rebels in Ireland, which yet remains unpaid:" And though, in these miserable Times of Distraction, when there are Armies (pretended to be levied by Order of both Houses) almost in every County of the Kingdom, and all the good old Laws, the Observation whereof would preserve the Public Peace, violated and suppressed; when the Treaty, hopefully begun towards a happy Peace, is broken, and the Committee re-called by both Houses, as if they intended no further Overture for laying down Arms, but to decide all Differences by the Sword; the World will easily judge whether His Majesty might not well deny to consent to any new Act of Parliament, the much major Part of both Houses being by Force and Violence driven and kept from those Councils, and His Majesty himself not suffered to be present: Yet, such is His Compassion of Soul towards His poor Protestant Subjects of that His Kingdom of Ireland, that He would gladly entertain any Expedient, whereby it might be evident the Condition of that Kingdom might be relieved, and the Distractions of this in no Danger of being increased; and therefore His Majesty desires to be satisfied in these Particulars:

"1. How the great and vast Sums of Monies already raised by the several Acts of Parliament for the Relief of Ireland, and which by the Acts ought not to be employed to any other Purpose than Reducing of the Rebels, until they shall be declared to be subdued, have been expended; His Majesty having been informed that no less than One Thousand Pounds of that Money was, by One Order of One or both Houses, issued for the Maintenance of the Army which hath given Him Battle, under the Command of the Earl of Essex?

"2. How His Majesty shall be secured, that the Money, which by His Majesty's Consent shall be raised for the Support of His Army in Ireland, shall not for the future be diverted from that Use, and employed against Him in this Kingdom?

"3. Whether it be just to compel His good Subjects, who have subscribed, to pay those Subscriptions, when as, at the Time they did subscribe, they conceived themselves absolved from their Undertaking, if at any Time they were content to forfeit the Sum mentioned in that Act; for His Majesty doth not conceive that, by that Act, they are liable to pay the whole Subscriptions, but to submit to the Penalty enjoined; and then His Majesty is not satisfied, that, by a new Law, it can be just to compel them to what at the First they undertook voluntarily, and it may be would not have undertaken but upon the Liberty they conceived to be then left them?

"4. Whether the Power given by this new Bill to Warner, Towse, and Andrewes (Persons of whose Integrity and Affection to the Public Peace His Majesty is in no Degree satisfied), be not too great; any Certificate of theirs being Ground enough to extend the Estate of any Subject in England, whether he ever underwrit or no?

"5. Whether, all Lands extended by virtue of this Act being to continue in Extent till all Forfeitures be satisfied, it may not be very prejudicial to Creditors to whom those Lands are liable, and so the common Justice may be disturbed?

"6. Whether, by this Act, the Extents being not to be avoided or delayed for Omission of any Lands, the same may not be prejudicial to all Purchasers; and whether it be not against the known Course of the Law?

"His Majesty desires to receive Satisfaction from both Houses of Parliament in these Particulars, with all possible Expedition; and then He shall give all the World an Account how sensible He is of the Misery of Ireland, and how desirous He is to find or embrace any Way for their Relief; the best, if not the only, Way to which His Majesty conceives would be, by a good and blessed Accommodation of the lamentable Distractions of this Kingdom; which, if the Matter of His Majesty's last Message were so entertained as His Majesty hoped and expected, might, (fn. *) by the Blessing of God, in a short Time be effected."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9 a cras.

Footnotes

* Bis in Originali.
* Origin. to.
Bis in Originali.
Deest in Originali.
* Origin. be.