House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 10 January 1644

DIE Mercurii, 10 die Januarii.

PRAYERS.

Domini præsentes:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Ordinance for the better Attendance of the Officers on the Great Seal.

An Ordinance was brought into this House by the Earl of Kent, for commanding the better Attendance of the Officers upon the Great Seal, and the Covenant to be tendered to them; and it being read, it was Agreed to, and Ordered to be (fn. 1) sent down to the House of Commons, to desire their Concurrence therein.

L. Wharton, excused.

Ordered, That the Lord Wharton is excused for being absent for Two or Three Days.

Ordinance for appointing Sheriffs.

Ordered, That the Lord Admiral is hereby added to be of the Committee for the Ordinance concerning nominating of Sheriffs; and the said Committee to meet To-morrow in the Afternoon, at Three of the Clock.

Message to the H. C. with Ordinances for their Concurrence.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Page and Dr. Aylett;

To desire their Concurrence in these Ordinances following:

1. To the Ordinance concerning the Excise upon Flesh and Salt, with the Amendments.

2. To the Ordinance for pressing of Mariners for the next Summer Fleet.

3. To the Ordinance for the better Attendance of the Officers upon the Great Seal, and the tendering them the Covenant.

Witnesses sworn in the Archbishop of Cant s Cause.

This Day these Persons were sworn at this Bar, to be examined by the Lords Committees, touching the Business of the Archbishop of Canterbury:

Message from the H. C. that some of their Members may assist the Lords in the Proceedings against the Queen;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Harley Knight, and others:

To acquaint their Lordships, that the House of Commons doth give Leave and appoint any of the Members of the House of Commons, to consider and confer with the Lords and Commons, concerning the Form and Manner of proceeding in the Case of the Queen's Impeachment, or of other Delinquents, if they shall be desired thereunto by the Lords.

with an Order;

2. To desire Concurrence for sending Fifteen Hundred Pounds to the Garrison of Alsebury. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

and for a Conference on Business of Importance.

3. To desire a Conference, by a Committee of both Houses, touching some Business of great Importance lately come to their Knowledge.

Ordered, To give a present Conference.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House agrees to the Order for sending Fifteen Hundred Pounds to the Garrison of Alsebury; and that this House will give a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, as is desired.

Pettus and Ayliff.

Upon hearing the Counsel on both Sides, (fn. 2) in the Cause between the Widow Pettus and Jeremy Aylett: It is Ordered, by this House, That it is hereby referred to Mr. Baron Trevor, Mr. Justice Reeves, and Mr. Justice Bacon, and Mr. Serjeant Whitfeild, or any Three or Two of them, to mediate between the Parties, and see whether they can end and compose the Differences between (fn. 2) them; if not, to certify to this House.

Order for 1500 l. for the Garrison of Aylsbury.

"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, That the Committee at Haberdashers Hall do, out of the deposed Monies there, forthwith pay Fifteen Hundred Pounds to the Treasurers at Guildhall; and that they do forthwith pay the said Fifteen Hundred Pounds to the Treasurer at Wars, for the Garrison at Ailsebury."

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:

Answer from the H. C.

That they do agree to the Ordinance for the Excise upon Flesh and Salt, with the Alterations this Day sent down; as touching the other Ordinances sent this Day down, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Lord Goring impeached by the H. C.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Wm. Strikeland Knight; who said, "He was commanded, by the Knights, Citizens, and Burgesses of the House of Commons, in their Name, and in the Name of all the Commons of England, to accuse George Lord Goringe of High Treason; and that they will in due Time bring up Articles of Impeachment against him."

Message from thence, with an Ordinance;

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Hungerford Knight:

1. To desire Concurrence in an Ordinance concerning maimed Soldiers. (Here enter it.)

Agreed to.

and that they will sit on Friday.

2. To acquaint their Lordships, that the House of Commons intends to sit on Friday next.

Ordered, That this House will sit on Friday next.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships do agree in the Order concerning maimed Soldiers; and that this House will sit on Friday next.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure, and the Lords went to the Conference: Which being resumed;

Report of the Conference about a Letter intercepted, from Lord Goring to the Queen, and other Letters brought to the H. C.

The Speaker reported, "That, at this Conference, the House of Commons acquainted their Lordships with a Letter, which was lately intercepted, and brought to them: The said Letter was directed to the Queen, from the Lord Goringe."

The House commanded the said Letter to be read, as followeth. (Here enter the Letter.)

Next it was reported, "That the House of Commons have observed divers Particulars in this Letter:

"1. That the Letter from Lord Goringe to the Queen be referred to the Committee for the Safety, to consider of all the Heads of it, and to propound to the Houses what is fit to be done upon it on Friday Morning next.

"And because the House of Commons having had brought unto them a Valess of Letters, they think it fit that the said Valess of Letters shall be referred to the Consideration of the Committee for the Safety; and that the Committee for the Safety may have Power, from both Houses, to open as many of these Letters, or all, as they shall see Occasion; and that they do return to the Houses all the several Letters now in the Valess, according to the Superscriptions, and the Grounds and Reasons of their Proceedings, whether they open them or not."

Ordered, That this House agrees with the House of Commons in these Votes; and because it is a Business of great Concernment, this House appoints the Quorum of Lords of the Committee of the Safety shall be Five, to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock, at the Star Chamber; and the Valess to be brought then to the Committee.

Message to the H. C. that the Lords agree the Committee of Safety shall examine them.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Mr. Page and Dr. Aylett:

To let them know, that their Lordships do agree in referring the Consideration of the Letter of the Lord Goring's to the Committee for the Safety; and likewise have given them Power to open the Valess and the Letters, as they desire; and because it is a Business of great Consequence, their Lordships have Ordered, That the Quorum of the Committee shall be Five, to meet To-morrow Morning, at Nine of the Clock.

Commons bringing up only a Copy of L. Goring's Letter not to be a Precedent.

It was moved, by the Earl of Essex Lord General, That it might be entered into the Journal Book of this House, That it should be no Precedent to this House, that a Copy of a Letter of this Consequence as the Lord Goringe's Letter is, should be brought up from the House of Commons, and not the Original Letter."

Pour la Royne d' Angleterre.

L. Goring's Letter to the Queen.

"Madam,

"By Madam De Gresseye's Favour, I hope this may have better Success than divers others that I have sent from The Haghe, Brussells, and this Place, to which I have not as yet had any One Answer, for I hear they have been all intercepted. I have had One from Your majesty only, which was to have found me at The Hagh, wherein Your Majesty much commends the Count of Harcourt's Proceedings, whereof I made Use to his Lady here; where it comes to me from the best Hands near this Queen, That Mons'r De Harcourte, in his Person, is not well used by Your Majesties; and that the Sense thereof here much retards some Expressions of Kindness hence, which otherwise I should have found for Your Service before this Time. Madam De Harcourt vows to me, and promiseth so to delare it, that the Count her Husband writes to her quite the contrary; and that his Complaint is only of the Parliament. I beseech Your Majesty to clear this Point to him there, and send me somewhat hither for my Directions to that Purpose; for now Your Business begins to take another Ply, much for the better, since my Rencounter with the Cardinal, by the Queen's private Order, in Her close Cabinet, where he gave me all Assurance that Words could testify, of real and speedy Assistance from hence, so far as this their Conjuncture would permit, having such great Weights upon them, by reason of the late Losses in Germany, and Disorders elsewhere, which is no feigned Thing. He there told me, that Mons'r De Harcourt was a Person Your Majesties nominated, who had express Order to receive his Instructions from You, and to treat with the Parliament accordingly, and no otherwise; by which Means, if aught could have been effected, he was of Opinion would have best secured Your Majesty, and soonest effected it: But if that cannot be (whereof I find he expects little Fruit), he most seriously protested, That the Queen's Resolution was such, as nothing in Her Power should be wanting, to serve Your Majesties withall, in Arms or Money, to their uttermost; for he vowed the like Care and Passion he never saw; and as for his Part, he with solemn Assevaration again and again professed the same: All which, Madam, with all the rest concerning Your Majesty's Service within my Commission and Reach, I have at this Instant sent, by the Way of Havre de Grace, to my Lord Digby at large, Things changing Daily; as Yesterday most of all, by the News of the Sweeds invading the King of Denmark's Country with so puissant an Army, and taking Him so unprovided as is likely to sit sore upon Him; by which Means, though the Sweeds (great Friends to France) have the Advantage, yet their leaving those Parts of France adjoining to Germany so naked will be a sore Molestation and Danger both to France at this Time, when they are else so close laid to on all Sides; besides, Lorrayne hath sent hither, to mediate his Peace, which is hearkened unto, but with no very quick Ears, considering his Uncertainty. Baviere, that great Wheel, also treats for a Neutrality, of all which, within few Days more, my Lord Digby shall have a full Account; for though these lie far off us in Place, it will have a great Operation upon our Affairs for the Time: Before To-morrow Night, I doubt not but to find somewhat upon the Particulars what I may expect here, since they do absolutely renounce the League Offensive and Defensive, and will not be known if any such Proposition made by the Count De Harcourt in England (fn. 3); whereof I was very glad, and would not seem to know any Thing of it, though I had little before received from Secretary Nicholas all the Propositions both on the one Side and the other; for their disclaiming any such Thing leaves His Majesty in so good a Condition, as I doubt not now but one Way or other to see this Business work to His Content, that being over which was like to give Cause of the greatest Obstruction to this Treaty; for to put off all our old Cloaths before we were sure of new, I must confess, Madam, I liked it not, neither for Honour nor Safety neither: The Cardinal told me, that by Monsieur De Gressy and Watt Mountague both a more strict League was offered here; which when Mons'r De Harcourt in Return moved to His Majesty (not calling it Offensive and Defensive), it was so coolly received by His Majesty, as since they thought it not fit further to insist upon it; but should then expect such a Return from us, as we should find this Crown had deserved from us, by the Aid and Supply we should receive from them for our Re-establishment, which they would solely intend. But, Madam, the true Reason why they fly off from touching upon the League Offensive and Defensive is, as I find by private Intelligence, the high Demands of His majesty thereupon; though to me neither the Queen, the Cardinal, nor the Secretary, will take the least Notice, nor I to them. I much wonder why they should so startle at those Demands; for should His Majesty have gone less, He should (save only in the Loan of the Money, and Payment of the Soldiers after Landing) have come short of that which the League Defensive already obligeth them unto. And thus stands Your Business now fairer by far than I could have hoped for when I dispatched Captain Lanyan, whose Return I passionately attend, or some other by whom I may know how to steer my Course. Let me (Madam) but know what it is You most insist upon, which, in my poor Opinion, must be the Loan of Money, or at worst their Credit to back ours in case we can borrow Five or Six Hundred Thousand Crowns, whereof I am put in good Hope, if that may be procured; and withall that, according to One principal Article in the Treaty (whereof I often remember them), they immediately and openly declare against the Parliament and Scotland's Proceedings, as Enemies to this Crown, as well as His Majesty, in case they do not instantly return to their Obedience. Use but the Count Harcourt well in his Person; give me my Directions punctually, with constant Information how you proceed there with him; and let my Merchants be well used, that come so roundly over to you with all Kind of Arms and Ammunition; and then my Life for it Your Majesty's Business shall not suffer on this Side, how knotty or fcabreys soever. Here was not any of that Powder ready that La Rivere brought the Ships for, nor any such Thing thought on, that I can find; but nevertheless he shall bring both Powder and other Arms with him in good Quantity; and as much more shall accompany or follow him from thence, from Robin a great French Merchant: And all this (Madam), besides Twenty Thousand Muskets, Five Thousand Pair of Pistols, Six Thousand Swords, and Four Thousand Carabines from Dunkirke, and Two Thousand Barrels of Powder, for which Mr. Sandys (a most faithful, careful, industrious Servant of Your Majesty's) and others have sent to Sir Hen. De Vic for Passports, as his last Letter signifies to me; besides divers others now preparing Ships there, to trade in the West, as they also do from Holland; where now, as I have signified to my Lord Digby, His Majesty may have what strong Ships He please, as shall better appear by the Proposition itself. I humbly pray Your Majesty that Notice may be taken of Sir H. De Vic's great Service on this Side; which he deserves right well, or say I abuse you. The Accompt of Your Majesty's Jewels shall come with my other Packets. One Hundred and Twenty Thousand Guilders were returned to Webster out of France, which did no more than pay Use; and what was formerly owing, about as much more, was taken up upon your Two Pendant Diamonds, Four Pendant Pearls, and other Pearls, for paying for the Yorkshire Arms, &c. as will appear upon Accompt coming to You, by which Your Majesty will find there remains unpawned only Your Two Table Pendants, with the Fissets to them, and the Six Rubies of the Chain, yet in Sir Will'm Boswell's Hands; but there will still be Two or Three Thousand Pounds Sterling due to Webster, towards Payment of the next Use; there will be above Eight Thousand Pounds Sterling due by Bond from the Yorkshire Gentlemen; of all which Your Majesty shall have the Particulars. 'Tis yet believed Your Majesty will come hither, though with Child. I hope Your Majesty will not conceal it from me. My Lady Stanhope, a true Deserver of Your Majesty, writes me Word, all is in Disorder there. I humbly beg Orders therein. Be pleased, Madam, to present me as you best know I am to my Sacred Master, to whom I have presumed to write the other Way. This must come inclosed in a little Room by Madam Gressye's Permission; which I most humbly beg again and again that Your Majesty will pardon, and accept from him that beyond all is hourly more and more,

"Madam,
Your Majesty's all-obliged, vowed,
and obedient Servant,
Goreing."

Paris, (fn. 4) January 15th, 1644.

Order for 300 l. for maimed Soldiers.

"It is Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, That the Committee at Haberdashers Hall do forthwith pay in the Three Hundred Pounds to the Treasurers at Guildhall, London; and that by them it be forthwith paid over to the Treasurer at Wars, and by him paid over to the Treasurers for maimed Soldiers, and by them disposed of to the Apothecaries and Chirurgeons for the maimed Soldiers, according to the Direction of the Committee for maimed Soldiers."

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 10^a, Friday next, in the Morning.