DIE Mercurii, videlicet, 14 die Februarii.
PRAYERS, by Mr. Wilkinson.
Lords present this Day:
Ds. Grey de Warke.
L. Viscount Say & Seale.
Earl of Westmorland's Petition.
The Lord General acquainted this House, "That
the Earl of Westm. came to him, and desired him to
deliver a Petition to this House:" And this House
commanded the same to be read. (Here enter it.)
Covenant to be tendered to him.
Hereupon this House Ordered, That the Earl of
Westm. shall first have the Covenant tendered to him,
and then this House will take the rest of his Desires
into further Consideration.
And the House appointed the Earls of Rutland and
Stamford to tender the Covenant to him presently; and
(fn. *) accordingly they went forth; and the Earl of Westm'land took and subscribed the Covenant.
Further Report of the Conference about the Ordinance concerning the Committees of both Kingdoms.
Next, the Earl of Manchester reported the Remainder
of the Conference Yesterday with the House of Commons; which was, "The Reasons of the House of
Commons, why they adhere to the Words ["order
and direct,"] being in Answer to the Lords Reasons."
(Here enter the Reasons.)
"To the First Reason:
"1. That, admitting what is urged in the First Part
of this Reason, it will not follow that the active
Power of the Lord General will in the least Measure
be restrained, although the Houses do grant the Power
unto their Committee of ordering and directing the
War, so as may be for the best Advantage of the
Three Kingdoms, as is desired by the House of Commons; in respect it will be acknowledged by all, that,
notwithstanding the active Power conferred on the
Lord General by his Ordinance, yet the Power of
ordering and directing the carrying on and managing the War for the best Advantage of the Kingdom
resided still in, and was reserved unto, the Houses;
which being delegated to this Committee, for the
more speedy, secret, and effectual carrying on the
War, can no Way abridge nor alter the active Power
in the Lord General; but that remains still the same
as if this Power of ordering and directing had not
been granted to this Committee.
"To the Second Part of this Reason:
"If there be any such inevitable Necessity for the
Lord General to act upon the Place without the Direction of this Committee, the Power of the Lord
General already granted him therein remains entire
notwithstanding; and the same might be as well objected when the Power resides in the Houses, as when
it shall be delegated to this Committee.
"To the Second Reason of the Lords:
"The Power desired by the House of Commons to
be granted to this Committee doth not cross the Ordinance for the Lord General; the Words of that
Ordinance being these: ["That the Earl of Essex
shall have and enjoy all Powers, Titles, Preeminencies, Authority, Jurisdiction, and Liberties, incident
and belonging to the said Office of Captain General,
in such Manner, and according to such Instructions,
as he shall receive from Time to Time from both
Houses of Parliament:"] Whereby the Power of the
Lord General is appointed in such Manner, and according to such Instructions, as he shall from Time
to Time receive from both Houses; and this Power
now desired by the House of Commons to be granted
to this Committee proceeding from both Houses, in
their Declaration in what Manner the Lord General's
Power is to be exercised, and the War to be managed, according to what they reserved to themselves
in that Ordinance.
"2. The denying of placing such a Power in the
Committee will be, by Consequence and in Effect, to
deny the Houses themselves to have an ordering and
directing Power for the managing the War, so as may
be for their and the Kingdom's best Advantage, or at
least the Exercise thereof.
"To the Third Reason of the Lords:
"Answer: This Reason presupposes a Diminution to
the Lord General, by the granting the Power desired, without alledging wherein; which the House
of Commons cannot admit, considering the Answers
given to the former Reasons, whereby it appears the
Lord General's Power will no Way be altered, but
remain one and the same, notwithstanding the Power
delegated by this Ordinance to this Committee as is
desired; in which respect the supposed Inconveniencies of Dishonour and Discouragement to the Commanders, suggested in the following Part of this Reason, are wholly removed.
"2. The directing and ordering Power placed by the
Houses in this Committee, so as may be for the best
Advantage of the Kingdoms, as is desired, must needs
much rather tend to the Honour and Safety of the
Lord General, wherein the House acknowledges a
Person of great Honour and Merit, than to Diminution thereof, considering whose Power it is that is so
delegated, which by this Means will be made effectual and useful for the better carrying on the War;
and that the Forces of our Brethren of Scotland, under their General, a Person of Honour, are directed
by a joint Committee of both Nations.
"To the Fourth Reason of the Lords:
"Answer: This presupposes the Power of ordering
and directing the War which resides in the Houses,
or which shall be by them delegated to this Committee, and that which is granted to the Lord General by
his Ordinance, to be equal and interfering; which
the House of Commons leaves to your Lordships
Consideration, and how likely the Power desired
to be placed in this Committee will be to produce the
Disorder and Confusion mentioned in that Reason.
"To the Fifth Reason of the Lords:
"Answer: This Reason doth presuppose the War is
to be managed only by the Lord General, without
any renewed Act of an ordering and directing Power
from the Two Houses, for the Good of the Kingdom;
for, if the Houses cannot order and direct the War
immediately with the Speed and Secrecy requisite, nor
delegate a Power to any Committee for those Purposes, it must necessarily follow the ordering and directive Part must rest solely in the Lord General.
"2. This also infers, that, if this Power desired be
conferred by both Houses upon this Committee, that
they should interpose in every particular Action of
the Armies, instead of managing and carrying on the
War for the best Advantage of the Three Kingdoms,
which is by no Means to be admitted.
"For these Reasons the House of Commons, notwithstanding the Reasons offered them by the Lords, do
think fit to adhere to the Words ["order and direct"] to stand in this Ordinance, as a Power necessary to be granted to the Committee of both Houses
for the managing the War. Therefore the House of
Commons, considering how many Days the Scotts
Commissioners have been here expecting something
to be done in this Business for the joining the Counsels of both Kingdoms, and nothing yet resolved of,
they desire their Lordships would give speedy Resolution herein."
Hereupon this House was adjourned into a Committee during Pleasure; and the Business was taken into
And the House being resumed;
This Question was put,
Debates upon this Report.
"Whether, when the Lord General at any Time
receives Directions from the Committee appointed by both Houses of Parliament to treat
with the Scotts Commissioners, if he see Cause
to the contrary, he may suspend the Execution thereof, until he have acquainted both
Houses of Parliament therewith?"
And it was resolved in the Affirmative.
Then the House was adjourned during Pleasure into
a Committee again, to debate the Business further, whether the Words ["order and direct"] should stand as
it came from the House of Commons.
And the House being resumed;
This Question was put,
"Whether to propose to the House of Commons, at
a Conference, to admit of the Words ["order
and direct",] so the Time be changed from
Three Months to Six Weeks?"
And it was Resolved in the Affirmative.
Committee to prepare Heads for a further Conference on this Business.
Ordered, That these Lords following are appointed
to draw up Reasons for to be offered at the Conference
To-morrow Morning, concerning this Business; and to
report the same to this House:
Earl of Westmorland's Petition, to be restored to his Liberty, and he will take the Covenant.
"To the Right Honourable the Lords assembled
"The humble Petition of Mildmay Earl of
"His deep Sense of Grief, that at any Time he hath
so deserted the Parliament, as any Ways to have appeared an Opposer of the Proceedings thereof: He
blesseth God, who hath discovered unto him the
Danger Church and State were in, and Malignity of
those who practised their Destruction, whereby his
Judgement is now fully convinced; that it had formerly been seduced, and wandered out of the right
Way; and therefore hath entertained this Resolution,
for the future to sacrifice Life and Fortunes to the
real Service of King and Parliament, for which he
"This said, he humbly refers himself to your
Lordships Wisdom and Goodness; and professeth that the Feeling of his great and long
Sufferings is not so sensible unto him as the
Trouble of his Mind for continuing so long
in such Error; nor is he so joyed with the
Benefit he may receive by that joint Declaration of the Two Kingdoms, as it concerns the
Preservation of his Fortune and Family from
Ruin, as in that it may be a Means and Occasion to put him into a Capacity of again
serving his King and Country, which he humbly prayeth your Lordships may be by his
receiving the Covenant and by his Restitution
of his Liberty, and such Proportion of his
Fortunes as to your Wisdoms shall be thought
fit; and he doubteth not but he shall give such
Testimony of his real Love to his Country as
he shall be made capable of your Lordships
"And he shall daily pray, &c."
Order for Mr. Rutton to be Minister of St. Mary le bow.
"Upon the humble Petition of divers of the Inhabitants of the Parish of Mary le bow, in the City of
London; shewing, That their Minister hath sent to Sir
Nathaniell Brent a Resignation of the said Living, so
as the Place is become absolutely void; therefore the
Petitioners humbly pray, that, seeing it is in the Donation of the Archbishop of Canterbury, whose Jurisdiction is sequestered by Ordinance of both Houses, that
their Lordships (fn. *) will Order Sir Nathaniell Brenth,
Vicar General to the said Archbishop, to give Institution and Induction to Mr. Rutton, to be Minister
in that Place:"
All which this (fn. *) House Ordered accordingly.
House adjourned till 9a cras.