House of Lords Journal Volume 6: 29 April 1644

DIE Lunæ, videlicet, 29 die Aprilis.

PRAYERS, by Mr. Ashe.

Domini præsentes fuerunt:

Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.

Answers from the H. C.

Sir Edward Leech and Dr. Aylett, sent on Saturday last to the House of Commons, return with this Answer:

That they will take the Earl of Mulgrave's Petition into speedy Consideration.

Mr. Serjeant Whitfield, &c. sent to the House of Commons on Saturday, return with this Answer:

That they have nominated a Committee, to join with a Committee of Lords, to examine the Business concerning the Lord General; and that they shall meet, as is appointed.

E. of Carnarvon & al. to have a Pass to go beyond Sea.

Ordered, That the Earl of Carnarvan shall have a Pass, to transport him for Geneva, taking with him John Saladin, Mary Saladin, Herbert Saladin, Fredericke Primerose, Rouvet, and Isaacke de Caus, with Three Nags, for his Lordship's Use, and such Necessaries as are fit for their Travel.

Message to the H. C. with it, and the E. of Bedford's Petition.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To deliver to them the Petition of the Earl of Bedford, with a Recommendation from this House.

2ly, To desire their Concurrence in the Pass for the Earl of Carnarvan and his Company, to travel for Geneva.

Report of Examinations concerning L. Willoughby and Col. King.

The Earl of Lyncolne reported from the Committee, That they have taken divers Examinations of the Lord Willoughbie's Charge against Colonel Kinge, and Colonel King's Charge against his Lordship, for the Miscarriage of the Business at Newarke.

Concerning the Charge of Colonel King against the Lord Willoughby; the Lord Willoughby, conceiving himself to be a Commander under the Lord General, is willing of his own Accord to wave his Privilege of Parliament for this Time, and to submit himself to the Trial of a Council of War, if their Lordships think it fit.

"Concerning the Charge of the Lord Willoughby against Colonel Kinge; the Committee hath examined Colonel Kinge, and he hath confessed and avows the Remonstrance published in Lyncolneshire, wherein the Lord Willoughby and his Officers are highly concerned.

And Colonel Kinge likewise hath confessed and avows the Opening of the Lord Willoughbie's Letter.

"The rest of the Charge he denies; which will require some Time, for the Lord Willoughby to produce his Witnesses to prove it, who are now in the Country."

Hereupon this House, upon the free Offer and Desire of the Lord Willoughby, gave Leave to the Lord Willoughby to wave his Privilege, that it might be tried by a Council of War, by Directions of the Lord General.

Ordered, That this House will hear the Witnesses of the Lord Willoughby, at this Bar, on Thursday Morning, concerning the Lord Willoughbie's Charge against Colonel Kinge, and will then take the Business into Consideration.

Message from the H. C. to expedite the Ordinance to continue the Association of the Counties of Essex, Suffolk, &c. under the E. of Manchester.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Tho. Barrington Baronet, and others:

To desire their Lordships Expedition in the Ordinance concerning the renewing the Ordinance concerning the associated Counties under the Command of the Earl of Manchester.

Ordered, That the Committee for this Ordinance meet presently, to consider of it.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That their Lordships will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message from the H. C. to expedite the Ordinance for excluding Members who have deserted the Houses.

A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Rob't Harley Knight, and others:

To desire their Lordships, that Expedition might be given to the Ordinance concerning excluding the Members of both Houses that have deserted the Parliament, which came from this House to the House of Commons; and they returned the same again with some Alterations.

Ordered, That this House will take this Business into Consideration on Wednesday Morning next; and all Lords in Town are to have Notice to attend this House then.

The Answer returned was:

Answer.

That this House will send an Answer to this Message by Messengers of their own.

Report of Examinations concerning Speeches against the L. General.

Upon the Report of the Committee concerning the Lord General's Business, and upon reading the Examinations of Edmond Potts and Charles Flood, touching Words spoken by Mr. Baul and Serjeant Major Taylor, against the Lord General and his Officers: It is Ordered, That the said Baul and Major Taylor be committed to the safe Custody of the Gentleman Usher attending this House, there to remain until the Pleasure of this House be further known.

Report from the Committee of both Kingdoms, of Propositions for a Peace.

The Earl of Northumb. reported, "That the Committee of both Kingdoms hath drawn Propositions for Peace;" which the House received, and read, and Ordered to be taken into Consideration on Wednesday Morning next. (Here enter them.)

"Propositions prepared by the Committee of both Kingdoms, for a safe and well-grounded Peace, to be presented to both Houses of the Parliament of England, and to the Convention of Estates in Scotland, or their Committees, to be by them reviewed and considered; and then, by the mutual Advice and Consent of both Kingdoms, to be perfected.

The Propositions.

"1. That, by Act of Parliament in each Kingdom respectively, all Oaths, Declarations, and Proclamations, against both Houses of the Parliament of England, the late Convention of the Estates of Scotland, or their Ordinances and Proceedings, or against any for adhering unto them, be annulled, suppressed, and forbidden, in all His Majesty's Dominions.

"2. That an Act of Parliament be passed, in both Kingdoms respectively, for enjoining the taking the late solemn League and Covenant by all the Subjects of the Three Kingdoms; and the Ordinances concerning the Manner of taking the same in both Kingdoms be confirmed by Acts of Parliament respectively, with such Penalties as by mutual Advice of both Kingdoms shall be agreed upon.

"3. That the Bill be passed, for the utter Abolition of Episcopacy, with such Alterations concerning the Estates of Prelates, as, upon Consideration of the Treaty and joint Declaration of both Kingdoms, shall be found necessary.

"4. That the Ordinances concerning the Calling and Sitting of the Assembly of Divines be confirmed by Act of Parliament.

"5. That Reformation of Religion, according to the Covenant, be settled by Act of Parliament, in such Manner as both Houses shall agree upon, after Advice had from the Assembly of Divines; and forasmuch as both Kingdoms are mutually obliged, by the same Covenant, to endeavour the nearest Conjunction and Uniformity in Matters of Religion, that such Unity and Uniformity in Religion, according to the Covenant, as, after Consultation and Advice had from the Divines of both Kingdoms now assembled, shall be jointly agreed upon by both Houses of the Parliament of England, and by the Church and Kingdom of Scotland, be confirmed by Acts of Parliament of both Kingdoms.

"6. That, for the more effectual disabling Jesuits, Priests, Papists, and Popish Recusants, from disturbing the State, and (fn. 1) eluding the Laws, and for the better discovering and speedy Conviction of Recusants, an Oath be established, by Act of Parliament, to be administered to them, wherein they shall abjure and renounce the Pope's Supremacy, the Doctrine of Transubstantiation, Purgatory, Worshiping of the Consecrated Host, Crucifixes, and Images; and refusing the said Oath, being tendered in such Manner as shall be appointed by the said Act, to be a sufficient Conviction in Law of Recusancy.

"7. An Act of Parliament for Education of the Children of Papists by Protestants, in the Protestant Religion.

"8. An Act for the true Levy of the Penalties against them; which Penalties to be levied and difposed in such Manner as both Houses shall agree on; wherein to be provided, that His Majesty shall have no Loss.

"9. That an Act be prepared whereby the Practices of Papists against the State may be prevented, and the Laws against them duly executed, and a stricter Course taken to prevent the Saying or Hearing of Mass in the Court, or any other Part of this Kingdom.

"10. The like for the Kingdom of Scotland concerning the Four last Propositions, in such Manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fit.

"† To be lest to the Houses, to name such Bills and Ordinances as they shall think fit.

"11. That the King do give His Assent to † Bills and Ordinances, and give Assurance of His consenting, in the next Parliament of Scotland, to an Act, ratifying the Acts of the Convention of the Estates of Scotland, called by the Council and Conservators of Peace, and assembled the Day of June, 1643, and several Times continued since, in such Manner, and with such Additions and Alterations, as the Estates convened in Parliament shall think convenient.

"12. That an Act be passed, in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms respectively, for Confirmation of the Treaties passed betwixt the Two Kingdoms; videlicet, the large Treaty, the late Treaty for the coming of the Scottish Army into England, and the settling of the Garrison of Berwicke, and the Treaty concerning Ireland, of; with all other Ordinances and Proceedings passed betwixt the Two Kingdoms in pursuance of the said Treaty.

"13. That an Act of Parliament be passed, to make void the Ceffation of Ireland, and all Treaties with the Rebels without Consent of both Houses of Parliament; and to settle the Prosecution of the War of Ireland in both Houses of Parliament, to be managed by the joint Advice of both Kingdoms, according to the Ordinance of the 11th of April last; and the King to assist, and to do no Act to discountenance or molest them therein.

"14. That an Act be passed, in the Parliaments of both Kingdoms respectively, for establishing the joint Declaration of both Kingdoms, with the Qualifications ensuing:

"1. That the Persons who shall expect no Pardon be only these following; the Names of Persons to be excepted.

"2. All Papists and Popish Recusants, who have been, now are, or shall be, actually in Arms against the Parliament, or voluntarily assisting thereunto.

"3. All Persons who have had any Hand in the plotting and designing the Rebellion in Ireland.

"4. All Irish Rebels, whether Papists or others, who have or shall come over from Ireland, and have assisted, or shall assist, in this War against both Houses of Parliament.

"5. That may be removed from His Majesty's Councils, and may be restrained from coming within the Verge of the Court; and that they may not bear any Office, or have any Employment concerning the State or Commonwealth; and in case any of them shall offend herein, to be guilty of High Treason, and uncapable of any Pardon by His Majesty, and their Estates to be disposed as both Houses of Parliament in England or the Estates of Parliament in Scotland respectively shall think fit.

"7. The Persons of all others to be free, notwithstanding any Act or Thing done in or concerning this War; they taking the Covenant.

"8. The Estates of the Persons excepted to pay Public Debts and Damages.

"9. The Estates of Prelates to be disposed according to the Fifth Article of the late Treaty of both Kingdoms.

"10. A Third Part, upon full Value, of the Estates of the Persons made uncapable as aforesaid, to be employed for the Payment of the Public Debts and Damages, according to the Declaration.

"11. And likewise a Tenth Part of the Estates of all other Delinquents within the Declaration: And in Case the Estates and Proportions aforementioned shall not suffice for the Payment of the Public Engagements, whereunto they are only to be employed, that then a new Proportion may be appointed, by the joint Advice of both Kingdoms; provided it exceed not the One Moiety of the Estates of the Persons made uncapable as aforesaid; and that it exceed not a Sixth Part of the Estates of the other Delinquents.

"12. That the Persons and Estates of all common Soldiers and others, who in Land and Goods be not worth Two Hundred Pounds, be at Liberty, and discharged.

"13. That an Act be prepared, whereby the Debts of the Kingdom, and the Persons of Delinquents, and the Value of their Estates, may be known; and which Act shall appoint in what Manner the Confiscations and Proportions beforementioned may be levied, and applied to the Discharge of the said Engagements.

"15. That a Bill be prepared, whereby the Subjects of the Kingdom of England may be appointed to be armed, trained, and disciplined.

"The like for the Kingdom of Scotland, in such Manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fit.

"16. That a Bill may be prepared, for the settling of the Admiralty, and Forces at Sea, and of the Sea Duties, and of the Impositions, and Tonnage and Poundage, for the maintaining the said Sea Forces; the Residue to be settled in the Crown.

"The like for the Kingdom of Scotland, in such Manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fit.

"17. An Act for the settling of all Forces, by Sea and Land, in Commissioners, to be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, of Persons of known Integrity, and such as both Kingdoms may confide in, for their Faithfulness to Religion, and Peace of the Kingdoms, of the House of Peers, and of the House of Commons, who shall be removed or altered, from Time to Time, as both Houses shall think fit; and when any shall die, others to be nominated in their Places, by the said Houses; which Commissioners shall have Power,

"1. First, to suppress any Forces raised without Authority of both Houses of Parliament, or, in the Intervals of Parliament, without Consent of the said Commissioners; and to suppress any Foreign Forces that shall invade this Kingdom; and that it shall be High Treason in any who shall levy any Force without such Authority or Consent; any Commission under the Great Seal, or other Warrant, to the contrary notwithstanding; and they to be uncapable of any Pardon from His Majesty, and their Estates to be disposed of as both Houses of Parliament shall think fit.

"2. To preserve the Peace now to be settled; and to prevent all Disturbances that may arise by Occasion of the late Troubles; and to enquire by Jury, and to hear and determine, all Violation of the Articles among the Subjects of the Kingdom of England.

So for the Kingdom of Scotland.

3. To have Power to send Part of themselves, so as they exceed not a Third Part, or be not under the Number of, to reside in the Kingdom of Scotland, to assist and vote as single Persons, with the Commissioners of Scotland, in those Matters wherein the Kingdom of Scotland is only concerned.

So for the Kingdom of Scotland.

"4. That the Commissioners of both Kingdoms may meet as a joint Committee, as they shall see Cause, or send Part of themselves as aforesaid, to do as followeth:

"1. To preserve the Peace betwixt the Kingdoms and the King, and every one of them.

"2. To prevent the Violation of the Articles of Peace as aforesaid, or any Troubles arising in the Kingdoms; and to hear and determine all Differences that may occasion the same, according to the Treaty; and to do further according as they shall respectively receive Instructions from both Houses of Parliament in England, or the Estates of Parliament in Scotland; and, in the Intervals of Parliament, from the Commissioners.

"3. To raise and join the Forces of both Kingdoms, to resist all Foreign Invasion, and to suppress any Forces raised within any of the Kingdoms, by any Authority under the Great Seal, or other Warrant whatsoever, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament in England, and the Estates of the Parliament in Scotland, or the said Commissioners of that Kingdom whereof they are Subjects; and, that, in those Cases of joint Concernment to both Kingdoms, the Commissioners to be directed to be there all, or such Part as aforesaid, to act and direct, as joint Commissioners of both Kingdoms.

"4. To order the War of Ireland, according to the Ordinance of the 11th of April; and to order the Militia, and conserve the Peace, of the Kingdom of Ireland.

18. That His Majesty give His Assent to what the Two Kingdoms shall agree upon, in Prosecution of the Articles of the large Treaty which are not yet finished.

"19. That an Act be passed, That all Peers made since the Day of, and who shall be hereafter made, shall not sit or vote in the Parliament of England, without Consent of both Houses of Parliament.

So for the Kingdom of Scotland.

"20. That an Act be passed, That the Lord Keeper, Lord Treasurer, Deputy of Ireland, Judges of both Benches, of the Exchequer, and Wales, be nominated by both Houses of Parliament, to continue Quam diu se bene gesserint; and, in Intervals of Parliament, by the aforementioned Commissioners, to be approved or disallowed by both Houses at their next Sitting.

The like for the Kingdom of Scotland, in such Manner as the Estates of Parliament there shall think fit.

"24. To report the Desire of this Committee, that some Members of both Houses may be sent unto the Lord Mayor, Court of Aldermen, and Common Council, to acquaint them, That the Houses are preparing Propositions for a safe and well-grounded Peace; and that both Houses will be ready to take into Consideration such Propositions as they shall present in Behalf of the City of London.

The like for the City of Edinburgh, to be sent to the Convention of Estates of Scotland, or their Committees.

"25. An Act of Oblivion, with Exceptions relative to the Qualification in the Proposition as aforesaid, for the joint Declaration, and what Exceptions the Houses shall think fit.

The like for the Kingdom of Scotland.

26. A Proposition for disbanding the Armies.

That Consideration be had of the Preamble and Conclusion, and what shall be promissory in them to the King from both Kingdoms.

Signed, in the Name, and by the Warrant, of the Committee of both Kingdoms.

"P. Wharton.
Jo. Maitland."

Answer from the H. C.

The Messengers sent to the House of Commons return with this Answer:

That they agree to grant a Pass, for the Earl of Carnarvan and his Company, to travel to Geneva; and concerning the Petition of the Earl of Bedford, they will send an Answer by Messengers of their own.

Message to them, to sit To-morrow.

A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:

To let them know, that this House intends to sit Tomorrow, to expedite those Ordinances which they sent up; and to desire that the House of Commons would sit likewise, if it may stand with their Conveniency.

Ordinance to continue the Association of the Counties of Essex, &c. under the Earl of Manchester.

The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the Committee withdrew into the Prince's Lodgings, to consider of the Earl of Manchester's Ordinance for the associated Counties.

The House was resumed.

And the Earl of Northumb. reported, "That the Committee have considered of the Ordinance for renewing the Earl of Manchester's Order; and they think it fit to pass, with some Amendments, and adding of these Words ["or Directions from the Lord General"].

Then the Ordinance was read, with the Alterations.

And, after Debate,

It was Resolved, upon the Question, That this House agrees to this Ordinance with the Alterations.

Message to the H. C. that the Lords agree to it.

A Message (fn. 2) was sent down to the House of Commons, by Mr. Serjeant Whitfeild and Dr. Aylett:

To let them know, that this House agrees to the Ordinance for renewing the Ordinance touching the associated Counties under the Earl of Manchester's Command, with the Alterations, wherein this House desires their Concurrence.

Adjourn.

House adjourned till 9 ^a cras.