DIE Mercurii, 1 die Maii.
PRAYERS, by Mr. Clarke.
Domini præsentes fuerunt:
Ds. Grey de Warke, Speaker.
Answer from the H. C.
Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page, sent to the House
of Commons Yesterday with a Message, return with this
That they take Notice of putting off the Trial of the
Archbishop of Canterbury until Saturday next; and concerning Sir Henry Mervin's Petition, they will send an
Answer by Messengers of their own.
Countess of Carlisle Privilege, in a Suit in Chancery between her and Pawsett.
It was moved, "That the Countess Dowager of Carlile hath had a Letter sent from the Commissioners of
the Great Seal, against which she desires the Benefit
of the Privilege of Parliament;" which Letter was
read, as followeth:
Directed, "To the Right Honourable Lucy Countess
Dowager of Carlile:
After our very hearty Commendations to your
Honour: Whereas it is required, on the Behalf of
Hercules Pawlett Gentleman, Complainant, that your
Ladyship should be warned to appear in Chancery
on the First Return of the next Term, commonly
called Quindena Paschæ, to answer to a Bill of Complaint there by him exhibited against your Ladyship;
we are, at the Complainant's Instance, to give you
Notice thereof, by this our Letter, according to the
Manner used towards such Persons of Honour; praying and requiring your Ladyship hereby to take
Knowledge thereof, and to give Order to those whom
you do employ in such your Causes for your Honour's Appearance, and putting in your Answer to
the said Bill, at the Time accordingly; whereof
hoping there shall be no Default on your Part, we
bid your Ladyship right heartily Farewel.
"From Westm. this One and Thirtieth of March.
"Your Honour's very loving Friends,
"H. Kent, C. S.
"Bolingbrooke, C. S.
"Jo. Wyld, C. S."
Hereupon this House Ordered, That the said Countess of Carlile shall have and enjoy her Privilege as a
Peer, notwithstanding this Letter.
Message from the H. C. to expedite the Ordinance to continue the Association of the Counties of Essex, &c. under the Earl of Manchester.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons, by Sir Tho. Barrington Knight:
To desire that, in regard they have received Information that divers of the King's Forces are drawing down
toward Alsebury, whereby the associated Counties may
be endangered; therefore they desire that their Lordships would please to give Expedition to the Ordinance
for the renewing the Earl of Manchester's Ordinance,
which expires this Day, whereby the associated Counties
may be secured.
The Answer returned was:
That this House will take this Ordinance into speedy
Message from the H. C. with Ordinances.
A Message was brought from the House of Commons,
by Sir Rob't Pye Knight, and others;
To desire Concurrence in these Particulars following:
1. An Ordinance (fn. *) for One Thousand Pounds, for the
Lord General's Train of Artillery. (Here enter it.)
2. An Ordinance for giving Power to the Committee
for the Queen's Revenue, &c. to issue Warrants to
the Commissioners of the Great Seal, for making
Read, but not passed.
3. An Order concerning a Commission to be granted
to James Viscount Clanneby, for to be a Colonel in
Ulster. (Here enter it.)
Read, and Agreed to.
The Answer returned to the Messengers of the House
of Commons was:
That this House agrees to the Ordinance concerning
the Thousand Pounds for the Train of Artillery, and
the Order concerning the Lord Clanneboy: To the other
Ordinance, concerning Escheators, this House will send
an Answer by Messengers of their own.
Report of Reasons for not agreeing to the Ordinance for continuing the Association of Essex, &c. under the Earl of Manchester.
The Lord Willoughby reported from the Committee
the Reasons which they have drawn up, in Answer to
the Reasons of the House of Commons at the late Conference; which being read, this House Ordered, That
they shall be offered to the House of Commons, at a
Conference. (Here enter them.)
Message to the H. C. for a Conference about it.
A Message was sent to the House of Commons, by
Sir Edward Leech and Mr. Page:
To desire a present Conference, in the Painted Chamber, concerning the Earl of Manchester's Ordinance.
The Answer returned was:
That (fn. *) they will give a present (fn. †) Conference, as
The House was adjourned during Pleasure; and the
Lords returning from the Conference, the House was
Messengers of the Great Seal to have a Patent.
There was presented to this House an Ordinance, for
to give Power to Mr. Solicitor General to draw a Patent
to the Messengers that attend the Great Seal, and the
same to be passed under the Great Seal, to hold their
Places Quam diu se bene gesserint; which Ordinance this
House approved of, and Ordered to be sent down to
the House of Commons, by the next Messengers that go
Ld. Willoughby and Col. King.
Ordered, That the Lord Willoughby shall have a
Copy of Colonel Kinge's Answer to his Charge; and
Colonel Kinge may have a Copy of the Lord Willoughbie's Charge against him.
Ordinance for excluding Members who have deserted the Houses.
Next, the House took into Consideration the Ordinance concerning the excluding of Members of both
Houses that have deserted the Parliament, with the Alterations as (fn. ‡) it came from the House of Commons.
And after Debate;
This Question was put, "Whether this Ordinance
shall be passed, with these Amendments
brought up from the House of Commons?"
And it was Resolved Negatively.
Committes to prepare Reasons for not agreeing to it.
Ordered, That these Lords following are appointed
to draw up Reasons, to be offered to the House of Commons, why they agree not to this Ordinance with these
|Any Three to meet.
Propositions for a Peace.
Ordered, That this House will take the Propositions for a safe and well-grounded Peace into Consideration To-morrow Morning.
Order for 1000 l. for the Ld. General's Train of Artillery.
It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons in Parliament assembled, That the Committee at
Habberdashers Hall do forthwith pay unto the Lieute
nant of the Ordnance, upon Accompt, One Thousand
Pounds, to furnish Provisions, to enable the Train of
Artillery to march; and the Lieutenant of the Ordnance
is to pay the said Monies unto Captain Cannon, for the
providing of Materials for the Train of Artillery, in
such a Manner as that they may be brought to an
Lord Clanneboy to be Colonel of a Regiment in Ulster.
"It is this Day Ordered, by the Lords and Commons, &c. That the Regiment of Foot formerly under
the Command of the Lord Viscount Clanneboy, lately deceased, shall be under the Command of James now
Lord Viscount Clanneboy, who is hereby appointed
Colonel of the said Regiment, to employ the same in
the Service of the Parliament against the Irish Rebels;
and it is especially recommended to the Commander
in Chief that is or shall be placed over the Brittish
Regiments in Ulster, to grant him a Commission accordingly."
Reasons to be offered to the H. C. for not agreeing to the Ordinance for continuing the Association of the Counties of Essex, &c. under the E. of Manchester.
"1. The Lord General's Ordinance passed 15to
1642, which was precedent to the Earl of Manchester's Ordinance; and both Houses are obliged to the
Lord General, by their Protestation, and his Ordinance made in Pursuance thereof; and if the Earl
of Manchester's Ordinance, now desired, pass without
the Addition desired by the House of Peers, it doth
apparently abridge his Power, who hath done such
eminent Service to the Kingdom; and the Earl of
Manchester hath his Commission from the Lord General; and to make him independent to the Lord
General, is as well against all Course of War as against
the Words of the Lord General's Ordinance, whereby
he is made Captain General of all the Forces of the
"And the Lords conceive it is of no Consequence, by
Way of Argument or Reason, that this should pass
in the same Words the other did, because that passed
so: But, the Four Months being expired, both
Houses are free to pass this, as they shall find Cause.
"2. This is but By Way of Supposition; and the
Lords cannot conceive that the Lord General (who
hath the supreme Command of all the Forces, and best
understands what is most fit for every particular
County, as well as for the whole Kingdom) should
draw any of those Forces out unfittingly, or without
Consultation; but do confidently rely on the Care
and Prudence of his Lordship, that he will not draw
them out, but for the general Good of the Kingdom,
and when they may most fitly be spared in the Association.
"3. The Conditions are not altered in any Point, but
in this, which both Houses, by their former Ordinance
and Protestation, stand now obliged to, the Four
Months being expired; and the Expectation of former
Conditions is alledged but by Way of Likelihood, or
Supposition, which the Lords conceive will not be
expected, the Variance being but as aforesaid; and,
by the Ordinances of 16 Augusti, 20 Septembris, and
17 Novembris, 1643, Power was given for the raising of
Men and Monies; and, by those Ordinances, and other
Means, being all before the Ordinance of 22 Januarii
last, a very considerable Part of the Forces now under
the Earl of Manchester's Command were raised, and
the Lord General's Power not excluded by any of
"4. All Forces in other Associations are raised by
the like Taxes, and the Conclusion of this Allegation
is granted; but the Interests of the whole Kingdom is
greater than the Interest of any particular County,
or any Association; and the Lords and all others
have no Cause to distrust the Wisdom and Prudence
of the Lord General, in directing the Forces as shall
be just and fit, in case the Question supposed should
"5. This is but a Supposition, for which the Lords
see no Ground; and being uncertain whether the Forces
will ever be commanded out of the Association by the
Lord General, it cannot, in their Lordships Understanding, make any Distractions or Discontentments,
as is supposed, there being no just Cause or Ground
"6. There hath been (fn. *) no Occasion for the Earl of
Manchester to obey the Lord General, who never yet
commanded him since he had this Ordinance for Four
Months; nor is likely, if this Power desired by the
Lords be not allowed of.
"And that which is just, and to which both Houses
are formerly obliged, cannot be unseasonable at any
"For these Reasons, the Lords do adhere to their
House adjourned till 9a cras.